Cavalier crystals (Cavs) update

I know you guys want us to feel like we lose sometimes based on your RNG Casino style of rewards, but maybe make the Cavalier Crystals to start at 4* champs instead of 3* champs? When you're hoping for 5* or 6* champ, you're still losing in the grand scheme of the crystal purpose by pulling a 4* but it still helps out progression with 5* shards.... When I pull 3*s from Cavs I feel like I lost and also, like I"m a moron for buying Cavs.... unless that's the feeling you want from Cavs

Comments

Harith1987

Don’t know what a benefit of putting 3* version in Cav cyrs!? Ohh forgot it just for milking money!

Harith1987

Starting from 4* version would be great. At least If I buoght 1 crystal by 300 units and got 4* Version I will benefit from 24 pieces of Iso , but 3* What I would benefit of it ? Really ridiculous.

Agent_X_zzz

Agreed can't use 4*s in act 6, yet 3*s in Cavs??? Seems pretty logical

KoiBoy18

When I pull 3*s from Cavs I feel like I lost and also, like I"m a moron for buying Cavs....

Given the % odds of a 5 or 6*, buying Cavs IS kind of idiotic..

Lvernon15

I disagree with buffing them honestly, they’ve created enough Imbalance as it is, if they get buffed it’ll just mean that those who can afford to buy them get even further ahead and players who spend less fall behind even more, no matter how much arena you do you can’t keep up with moderate spenders

Notsavage19

Okay, so this wouldn't be a great idea.

A guaranteed 4* crystal costs more than what a Cav costs. The crystals are supposed to represent an "acceptable" deal for the "exclusive" characters, so in a PHC, that would be a 3*. In a GM, that would be a 4*. In a Cav, that would be a 4* as well. The lowest prize, (a 3* in a Cav) is supposed to be a "bad" deal compared to the cost. We can agree that we would never buy a 3* for 200 units. But, a 4* would be an alright, but not great, deal. If we were to completely get rid of 3*s, then we would have to jack up the price, since now, we have to come up with a price at which getting a 4* would be a "bad" deal. Let's say it's 500 units.

Now that you've taken out the 3*s, you only have 4, 5, and 6*s. Are you going to up the drop rates as well?

The increase in units presents a problem to F2P players. This will widen the gap between P2P and F2P. Increasing the drop rates doesn't directly give P2P an advantage, but it still widens the gap.

The 3*s are put into the crystals to ensure that P2P players can't just rely on the Cavs to get higher tier champs easily. They should stay in there.

Notsavage19

If you disagree, I'd love to hear your reasoning.

Lvernon15

Okay, so this wouldn't be a great idea.

A guaranteed 4* crystal costs more than what a Cav costs. The crystals are supposed to represent an "acceptable" deal for the "exclusive" characters, so in a PHC, that would be a 3*. In a GM, that would be a 4*. In a Cav, that would be a 4* as well. The lowest prize, (a 3* in a Cav) is supposed to be a "bad" deal compared to the cost. We can agree that we would never buy a 3* for 200 units. But, a 4* would be an alright, but not great, deal. If we were to completely get rid of 3*s, then we would have to jack up the price, since now, we have to come up with a price at which getting a 4* would be a "bad" deal. Let's say it's 500 units.

Now that you've taken out the 3*s, you only have 4, 5, and 6*s. Are you going to up the drop rates as well?

The increase in units presents a problem to F2P players. This will widen the gap between P2P and F2P. Increasing the drop rates doesn't directly give P2P an advantage, but it still widens the gap.

The 3*s are put into the crystals to ensure that P2P players can't just rely on the Cavs to get higher tier champs easily. They should stay in there.

I agree, how they currently are there’s no way for someone like me, however much arena I grind, to play at the true top, I can do content and stuff but never be at the true top of the game, and someone with a life who can’t spend all day in arena can’t keep up in the slightest, if they removed 3 stars the cost would have to be doubled pretty much

Ambjony

I’m sorry but I don’t buy the F2P vs P2P theory. People can buy EVERY DAY things that allow them to progress further in the game: catalysts, crystals, with NO LIMIT o check seatin spending thousands of real money to get every single 5* of the game. Or check 4th july or Black Friday deals for instance. The gap between F2P and P2P doesn’t rely on gettin’ 3* or 4* in cavalier cystals. I’m F2P and I think ridiculous that being Cavalier means a 3*. Sorry, but they haven’t even update the weekly calendar to give cavalier crystal and we still get grandmaster. Lame.

Notsavage19

I’m sorry but I don’t buy the F2P vs P2P theory. People can buy EVERY DAY things that allow them to progress further in the game: catalysts, crystals, with NO LIMIT o check seatin spending thousands of real money to get every single 5* of the game. Or check 4th july or Black Friday deals for instance. The gap between F2P and P2P doesn’t rely on gettin’ 3* or 4* in cavalier cystals. I’m F2P and I think ridiculous that being Cavalier means a 3*. Sorry, but they haven’t even update the weekly calendar to give cavalier crystal and we still get grandmaster. Lame.

Yes, Seatin buys Cav crystals on a weekly basis. But, how many of those crystals actually give him something useful? Not many. Point is, if you remove 3*s, then you increase the drop rates of all the other champions.

With a higher price tag, only P2P players can readily afford the crystals, and with a higher drop rate, they'll have a higher chance of pulling a good champ, which gives them a higher advantage over F2P players.

Yes, you can buy crystals, but they might not give you what you want.
Yes, you can buy catalysts, but without a good champ, they really have no use.
So although being P2P gives you benefits, they won't always give you advantages.

If you just remove 3*s, you're giving a clear advantage to the P2P, leaving the F2P in the dust.

Sorry, try again next time.

AzKicker316

I’m sorry but I don’t buy the F2P vs P2P theory. People can buy EVERY DAY things that allow them to progress further in the game: catalysts, crystals, with NO LIMIT o check seatin spending thousands of real money to get every single 5* of the game. Or check 4th july or Black Friday deals for instance. The gap between F2P and P2P doesn’t rely on gettin’ 3* or 4* in cavalier cystals. I’m F2P and I think ridiculous that being Cavalier means a 3*. Sorry, but they haven’t even update the weekly calendar to give cavalier crystal and we still get grandmaster. Lame.
Yes, Seatin buys Cav crystals on a weekly basis. But, how many of those crystals actually give him something useful? Not many. Point is, if you remove 3*s, then you increase the drop rates of all the other champions.

With a higher price tag, only P2P players can readily afford the crystals, and with a higher drop rate, they'll have a higher chance of pulling a good champ, which gives them a higher advantage over F2P players.

Yes, you can buy crystals, but they might not give you what you want.
Yes, you can buy catalysts, but without a good champ, they really have no use.
So although being P2P gives you benefits, they won't always give you advantages.

If you just remove 3*s, you're giving a clear advantage to the P2P, leaving the F2P in the dust.

Sorry, try again next time.

I don't believe your theory on giving an advantage to P2P folks if you remove 3*s. The cost is units and F2P have access to units through arenas and daily objectives. If you don't play arena or don't like it, then yes you will struggle getting cav crystals, but that's not saying all F2P will start falling behind. This game comes down to one thing that make P2P and F2P folks be in the same level, and that's spending time or money. It's your choice, but you have to spend a lot on one of those to maintain a high level.

Notsavage19

I’m sorry but I don’t buy the F2P vs P2P theory. People can buy EVERY DAY things that allow them to progress further in the game: catalysts, crystals, with NO LIMIT o check seatin spending thousands of real money to get every single 5* of the game. Or check 4th july or Black Friday deals for instance. The gap between F2P and P2P doesn’t rely on gettin’ 3* or 4* in cavalier cystals. I’m F2P and I think ridiculous that being Cavalier means a 3*. Sorry, but they haven’t even update the weekly calendar to give cavalier crystal and we still get grandmaster. Lame.
Yes, Seatin buys Cav crystals on a weekly basis. But, how many of those crystals actually give him something useful? Not many. Point is, if you remove 3*s, then you increase the drop rates of all the other champions.

With a higher price tag, only P2P players can readily afford the crystals, and with a higher drop rate, they'll have a higher chance of pulling a good champ, which gives them a higher advantage over F2P players.

Yes, you can buy crystals, but they might not give you what you want.
Yes, you can buy catalysts, but without a good champ, they really have no use.
So although being P2P gives you benefits, they won't always give you advantages.

If you just remove 3*s, you're giving a clear advantage to the P2P, leaving the F2P in the dust.

Sorry, try again next time.

I don't believe your theory on giving an advantage to P2P folks if you remove 3*s. The cost is units and F2P have access to units through arenas and daily objectives. If you don't play arena or don't like it, then yes you will struggle getting cav crystals, but that's not saying all F2P will start falling behind. This game comes down to one thing that make P2P and F2P folks be in the same level, and that's spending time or money. It's your choice, but you have to spend a lot on one of those to maintain a high level.

Yes, but there's a certain limit to the units you can get. That's what's separating F2P and P2P. I'm not saying that the unit limit should be taken away. I'm just saying that the increase in cost if you were to remove 3*s, would make F2P players reach that limit even faster, widening the gap between the two groups.

Also the argument isn't about unit acquisition? It's about the costs of a changed Cav crystal.

Remeli

I’m sorry but I don’t buy the F2P vs P2P theory. People can buy EVERY DAY things that allow them to progress further in the game: catalysts, crystals, with NO LIMIT o check seatin spending thousands of real money to get every single 5* of the game. Or check 4th july or Black Friday deals for instance. The gap between F2P and P2P doesn’t rely on gettin’ 3* or 4* in cavalier cystals. I’m F2P and I think ridiculous that being Cavalier means a 3*. Sorry, but they haven’t even update the weekly calendar to give cavalier crystal and we still get grandmaster. Lame.
Yes, Seatin buys Cav crystals on a weekly basis. But, how many of those crystals actually give him something useful? Not many. Point is, if you remove 3*s, then you increase the drop rates of all the other champions.

With a higher price tag, only P2P players can readily afford the crystals, and with a higher drop rate, they'll have a higher chance of pulling a good champ, which gives them a higher advantage over F2P players.

Yes, you can buy crystals, but they might not give you what you want.
Yes, you can buy catalysts, but without a good champ, they really have no use.
So although being P2P gives you benefits, they won't always give you advantages.

If you just remove 3*s, you're giving a clear advantage to the P2P, leaving the F2P in the dust.

Sorry, try again next time.

I don't believe your theory on giving an advantage to P2P folks if you remove 3*s. The cost is units and F2P have access to units through arenas and daily objectives. If you don't play arena or don't like it, then yes you will struggle getting cav crystals, but that's not saying all F2P will start falling behind. This game comes down to one thing that make P2P and F2P folks be in the same level, and that's spending time or money. It's your choice, but you have to spend a lot on one of those to maintain a high level.
Yes, but there's a certain limit to the units you can get. That's what's separating F2P and P2P. I'm not saying that the unit limit should be taken away. I'm just saying that the increase in cost if you were to remove 3*s, would make F2P players reach that limit even faster, widening the gap between the two groups.

Also the argument isn't about unit acquisition? It's about the costs of a changed Cav crystal.

Thing is the change in cost is something you brought up and is pretty subjective. Imo 200 units for a 4* is a bad deal and 200 units for a 3* is beyond awful.

So lets say they do bring the cost up to 300 units and remove the 3* without changing the drop rate (4* = 88%, 5* = 11% and 6* = 1%). That means that 88% of the time that would be a pretty bad deal at 300* for a 4*.

H_I_Z

THey should just make it like they did GMCs to Prems, the drop rates should remain, except with 4,5,6 stars insteadw

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psp742

I guess im sort of lucky (probably beginners luck), just became 'cavalier' title on April, I should have attempted it sooner (like last year). Anyways I was able to pull 6* Taskmaster, Psylocke, Mordo, Colossus, and Psylocke.. i hope i can pull some more 6*.

Notsavage19

If you disagree, I'd love to hear your reasoning.
Reason of my disagree is the high price of the cavaliers, lack of resources and motivation, very slow progression and the zero value of the 3 star heroes. We are about to roll out, rank up and level up 6* heroes. The cavalier crystal is very outdated. Probably people would have much more fun in this game and much more hunger for gambling, if they would get something for the money what they spend. Just like normal businesses, with a healthy business modells. That is not fun to pay way too much, to be lucky. Also doesn't worth it, you get a virtual, non-existing thing for your money,what you do not even own. Anytime a "bugcorrection" can come, just like happened with AA, Namor, Scarlet Witch, Dr. Stranger, etc. etc. Out of touch and no balance. You cannot give the "luck" just for the whales for way too much money.

No, I completely agree that Cavs are overpriced. I was just saying that if you want only 4*s, the price would have to increase, and since the Cavs are already so expensive, it would just harm the F2P even more.

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ChelseaFC

FTP and PTP would both benefit from it. I know plenty of FTP players who save up and buy them. If anything it would benefit free to play more than it does PTP. PTP players will buy them regardless for the champs they want. FTP loses far more getting a 3* and plenty of FTP players still go for them.

Giz

Why would Kabam change something that makes them a ton of money....no matter how much of a dirty scam they are!

ItsDamien

Why would Kabam change something that makes them a ton of money....no matter how much of a dirty scam they are!

The brilliant thing about knowing a scam is a scam, is that you don't fall for those scams and lose your money. You're not gaining anything, you're not losing anything. Where's the issue?

Demonzfyre

I disagree with buffing them honestly, they’ve created enough Imbalance as it is, if they get buffed it’ll just mean that those who can afford to buy them get even further ahead and players who spend less fall behind even more, no matter how much arena you do you can’t keep up with moderate spenders

If they remove 3* then they aren't going to be 200/300 units anymore. I'd imagine they'll be 800/900 units per crystal.

Demonzfyre

Why would Kabam change something that makes them a ton of money....no matter how much of a dirty scam they are!

A scam is not getting what you paid for. You know what you're getting if you buy Cavs even if you don't believe the drop rates. It's not a scam, just a bad choice.

Demonzfyre

If you disagree, I'd love to hear your reasoning.
Reason of my disagree is the high price of the cavaliers, lack of resources and motivation, very slow progression and the zero value of the 3 star heroes. We are about to roll out, rank up and level up 6* heroes. The cavalier crystal is very outdated. Probably people would have much more fun in this game and much more hunger for gambling, if they would get something for the money what they spend. Just like normal businesses, with a healthy business modells. That is not fun to pay way too much, to be lucky. Also doesn't worth it, you get a virtual, non-existing thing for your money,what you do not even own. Anytime a "bugcorrection" can come, just like happened with AA, Namor, Scarlet Witch, Dr. Stranger, etc. etc. Out of touch and no balance. You cannot give the "luck" just for the whales for way too much money.
No, I completely agree that Cavs are overpriced. I was just saying that if you want only 4*s, the price would have to increase, and since the Cavs are already so expensive, it would just harm the F2P even more.
The point would be that, to finally give something for the players, for the invested time and money in the game, in my opinion.

I'll never understand this mentality. You act like don't give us anything, like a free calendar, free crystal shards, summoner appreciation week and anniversary week on top of other special events.

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Giz

Why would Kabam change something that makes them a ton of money....no matter how much of a dirty scam they are!
A scam is not getting what you paid for. You know what you're getting if you buy Cavs even if you don't believe the drop rates. It's not a scam, just a bad choice.

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DNA3000

I disagree with buffing them honestly, they’ve created enough Imbalance as it is, if they get buffed it’ll just mean that those who can afford to buy them get even further ahead and players who spend less fall behind even more, no matter how much arena you do you can’t keep up with moderate spenders
If they remove 3* then they aren't going to be 200/300 units anymore. I'd imagine they'll be 800/900 units per crystal.
Mate,i am reading you from the beginning and just nonsense coming from you.why should they sell it for much higher price without 3 stars?this game is already too expensive,the players are spending way too much time and money.the point would be that,to make the game fun again for everyone and to balance the economy.it looks like you are against of the good changes.in your world you are right for sure,but to be honest i do not even want to imagine your world.

800 units is much larger than the jump in value, but there's a point to consider here. People are discussing this in vague fuzzy terms. Removing the 3* champs doesn't change anything, in terms of price, but it changes everything in terms of value. That's nonsense. If removing 3* champs would increase the value for players in a noticeable way, which is why people want the change, it would change the price of the crystal in an equally noticeable way unless you convince the devs to simply decide to give away more stuff.

Changing all the 3* champs into 4* champs is a material jump in value. Maybe people are thinking the difference is irrelevant because neither 3* champs nor 4* champs can be used in Act 6, say. But most 3* and 4* pulls for Cav players don't turn into champions, they turn into resources from duplication, as most Cavalier players have sizeable 3* and 4* rosters. A 4* dup is more gold and ISO than a 3* dup, and also 5* shards instead of 4* shards. You could argue it is appropriate, but you can't argue it doesn't change the value of the crystal markedly.

If we think about the crystal strictly in terms of 5* and 6* champions, then 100 (standard) Cav crystals generates, on average, 12 such champs. But also 38 4* champs and 50 3* champs. The 4* champs become either 275 5* shards or 550 5* shards depending on whether they generate a max sig crystal (and ignoring the uncommon times those don't drop shards). That's between 10450 and 20900 5* shards. If all the 3* champs turned into 4* champs, the total 5* shards would increase to between 24200 and 48400 5* shards.

Very roughly, then, 100 Cavs currently generates between 13 and 14 5* champs in value. Converting the 3* drops to 4* drops would increase that to between 14.5 and 17 5* champs. So ignoring gold and ISO, you'd expect the cost of the crystal to increase from 200 units to maybe 250 units. Factoring in the increase in ISO and gold, maybe 300 units.

I'd be fine with that, honestly, but especially considering the significant jump in gold and ISO that the crystal generates I would be concerned that Cav crystals would be more of a necessity than an option for Cavalier players, because gold and ISO resource balancing would have to account for that increase. Which is another way of saying you're less likely to see gold and ISO increases elsewhere, because resources get balanced across all sources, not individual sources.

Demonzfyre

I disagree with buffing them honestly, they’ve created enough Imbalance as it is, if they get buffed it’ll just mean that those who can afford to buy them get even further ahead and players who spend less fall behind even more, no matter how much arena you do you can’t keep up with moderate spenders
If they remove 3* then they aren't going to be 200/300 units anymore. I'd imagine they'll be 800/900 units per crystal.
Mate,i am reading you from the beginning and just nonsense coming from you.why should they sell it for much higher price without 3 stars?this game is already too expensive,the players are spending way too much time and money.the point would be that,to make the game fun again for everyone and to balance the economy.it looks like you are against of the good changes.in your world you are right for sure,but to be honest i do not even want to imagine your world.

The cav crystals are 200 units because of 3* in them. Just like DNA3000 just said, removing the 3* you increase the value of the crystal. Increase in value, increase in cost. Simple economics.