Act 6: Grandmaster Boss Fight Feedback Thread

Hello Summoners!

I’m reaching out on behalf of the Grandmaster in regards to his challenge in Act 6. If you’re a Summoner that has completed Act 6 and has some time, we would really appreciate your feedback on this fight!

We’d like to leave this open-ended and gather raw feedback on every aspect of the fight. However, if you’re not sure where to start, these questions might help out!
  • What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?
  • What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
  • What would you change in the fight?
  • What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
  • After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
  • How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?

Thank you for taking the time to give us your thoughts and feedback!

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Comments

  • H3t3rH3t3r Posts: 1,811 ★★★★★
    I enjoyed the entirety of the fight and no parts of it really fustrated me. For the paths they were pretty straight forward, were there annoying fights yeah but its to be expected. Now I have a feeling you guys are designing a boss fight similar to this for act7. Overall the grandmaster fight carried 6.4 as for me he was the only very enjoyable fight(Have not done 100% 6.4) I've encountered
  • GhostboytjieGhostboytjie Posts: 1,479 ★★★★
    Personally I would Say The Grandmaster Fight itself was enjoyable since he could be brought down with any champion and not just a specific Counter. The challenges was fun to do altho some champs cant do all challenges like Inflict Damage Effect But even without it he could still be solo'ed. Its highly Skill Based. Doing his challenges was Fun. Because of all those big damages you can do. Gotta admit when i first saw his HP i was annoyed but after fighting him i was actually laughing since its a fun and nice fight. After i defeated him It was like I wanna fight him again For the funs.

    What i just think might have been a struggle was a Path Towards him. The paths were harder to fight than grandmaster himself.
    Looking forward for more fights like this.
  • StevieManWonderStevieManWonder Posts: 4,385 ★★★★★
    What aspect of the fight did you enjoy most?
    • What I enjoyed most about the fight was the challenge/reward system. Completing the challenges the Grandmaster gave me and being rewarded with huge damage was immensely satisfying and made me feel really accomplished for succeeding at the rules of the fight. This is contrary to nodes like Special Connoisseur where you follow the rules of the fight, but do not get rewarded. I also liked that if I failed the challenges, I was punished, it made it feel way more skilled based than any other fight in the game.
    What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
    • Reversed Controls. I am absolutely abysmal at Reversed Controls and I always have the hardest time with them, so that part was the absolute worst. That in and of it itself though isn’t a knock on the fight’s design, but rather a statement of my own lack of that particular skill. The most frustrating part that is inherent in the fight was in the 30% to 1% phase where the Grandmaster would sometimes proc the same challenge multiple times in a row. It was fine when it was Knock Me Down and I was playing as Doom, but getting Perform Well-Timed Blocks was hard since I would often get stuck in the corner trying to parry 2-4 times before the timer ran out and since I can’t reparry, I would usually fail that challenge. The other irritating thing is that sometimes he just wouldn’t throw his sp1 and I’d be boned.
    What would you change in the fight?
    • I would remove the Reversed Controls, though, like I said in my previous answer, that’s mostly because I personally struggle with them, not because I think it’s an unfair or flawed mechanic.
    What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
    • I would like to see more of the Challenge/Reward system that is present in the Grandmaster fight, especially for final bosses of the Act or of the Chapter.
    After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
    • The first time, I felt like “Holy ****, that was the funnest fight I’ve done in the game and I can’t believe I did it in under 400 units.” The last time I defeated him for exploration was more like “I want to fight him more with different champs, but don’t want to go through the paths to get to him again. Also, I really hope I don’t get boned on the t5cc and awakening gem.” I got boned on the t5cc and the awakening gem, but I think it’d be really fun if once you explore Act 6, you get access to a one tile path the Grandmaster or access to a special quest like RoL where you can fight the Grandmaster with whichever of the linked nodes up. This is mostly because it’s a really fun fight and I am confident that if I practice against him, I can solo him with Ant-Man, but I don’t want to waste the resources to get to him to practice against him.
    How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
    • In general, fairly minimally. The only ones I really noticed was the node that limited your tokens of competence to 8 and the one that made it so you gained no power. The only one that was difficult was the first one I mentioned because it capped your damage.
    Overall, I loved the Grandmaster fight and I would love to see more of these types of fights.
  • HDrexHDrex Posts: 7
    Add a path that has like one or two energy spots so that people can practice
  • KaspyKaspy Posts: 148 ★★★
    I really liked the way you gained tokens by completing certain actions. It kinda made it into a little game within the game.

    Contrary to the champion fight where you dex during a special and cause him to lose Indestructible charges, the actions were not extremely difficult to complete. The difficulty rather was being able to consistently do them over a longer period of time.

    The frustrating part is that there is a lot to learn about this fight with the different phases. I probably did close to 45 min of homework before fighting him watching videos and reading up on the abilities. Even after doing my homework, it still took some practice until i felt like i fully understood what was going on. I cant say it felt great beating him, because it didnt really feel like i beat him. It felt more like i finally understood how to do the fight. Also, The way the quest is designed is that it is not really practical to do practice fights on him. The paths leading up to him are long and difficult so it took a big commitment for me just to make it to him.
  • 1- What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?
    The fact that it doesn't require any specific counter or ability in order to defeat him. It can be done with any champion, althought it still requires some luck and skill.

    2- What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
    Well, the fight wasn't all about skill. Luck was a factor that I found to penalize me in every fight I did against him, not allowing me to even do something close to a one-shot. Sometimes the intercepts weren't working (failed 10 in a row, for example), sometimes he wouldn't use the sp1, other times he would throw it randomly.

    3- What would you change in the fight?
    Maybe the reverse controls, if I would say. Or just find a better way to implement them, like making the AI super deffensive moments before it triggers. Something similar with what you did while the Grandmaster was switching phases.

    4- What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
    I like the concept of phases, and the requirements and actions for each one of them. I don't want to see anything that would penalize the player immediately for doing something wrong. Also, the attack value, as well as block damage, is something that I want to see reduced on these fights.
    Also, in no scenario only 2/3 champions should be able to do the fight. Let's not repeat what The Champion boss on 6.2.6 was when it first come out.

    5- After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
    Nothing special, really. Just a relief that I didn't got stuck there, and that I could be able to do it again and again.

    6- How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
    The linked nodes weren't a problem for me. I found out the one that cap the tokens a little bit annoying, as well as the one where you wouldn't get power. But that was basically it.
  • JadedJaded Posts: 4,386 ★★★★★
    What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?
    Phase 1. It was easy but skillful. I felt like I controlled the fight.

    What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
    Last phase. Personally first run had some major issues getting past this phase to the wounded stage. But because he didn’t have to be in the wound stage to finish him off I wasn’t overly frustrated with it but it did take the most revives to figure it out.

    What would you change in the fight?
    Last phase. I’d adjust the prompts to be more user friendly in the final stage.

    What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
    I’d like to see more Grandmaster type fights. You can either power through it with revives or Very skillfully defeat him without revives.

    After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
    Small accomplishment, but knowing the remaining lanes/buffs and how many more times I’d have to do this fight it left me underwhelmed.


    How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
    Horrible experience. I hated every lane. Frustrating and annoyed with the entirety of act 6 and massive amount of lanes.
  • Lvernon15Lvernon15 Posts: 11,466 ★★★★★
    1. The aspect I enjoyed most was just the fact that the entire fight is skill based, section 1 is all about landing those intercepts, section 2 is about using the power gain to your advantage and managing the challenges, section 3 is all about performing certain actions and 4 is about intercepts, I also really enjoyed that in section 3 his ai is designed to help you do challenges, like he will block if you get the hit his block, which prevents you failing simply through a poor ai. Couple other things I really enjoyed are that: most champs can do the fight and get a solo with skill. That the fight is forgiving, you’re allowed to fail a few challenges or take blocked hits or even take direct hits, but the fight remained tough
    2. Got 2 main things here, inverted controls being the main one, overall I’m nit opposed to this, but it’s the transition between them, and how it’s difficult to tell when they will swap, I’d like to see some sort of mechanic where abilities are turned off briefly after the inversion occurs or both champs are stunned briefly so you have time to adapt rather then mess up to a special 1 because he threw it right as you went inverted, but it’s a thought problem to solve. The second is a minor thing, and that’s the rare occasion where he would just hold a special in phase 3 and move to a special 2 through no control of your own
    3. What would I change? As I mentioned in #2 I’d implement some sort of brief time to adapt to inversion rather than it being abrupt, or make a few ups when the inversion occurs less severe than at other points in the fight
    4. For future major bosses I’d like to see:
    Lower attack pools allowing for more forgiveness, and if there are unique mechanics like tokens I like that you’re allowed to miss a few
    Unique and skill based mechanics such as his special 1 and the challenges
    Major pay-off for doing things wel in the fight, rather than a ‘if your don’t do this you don’t deal damage’ (like champion last 10%) I liked the whole ‘if you do do this You get major damage’
    The fact that there isn’t really anything that blocks options out, the only thing I guess is classed as this is the inflict a damage challenge, but you can get through with basically any champion if you do everything else well, it doesn’t force you to bring multiple boss options with you, but obviously some are better than others, it was refreshing to see not great champions able to do this fight
    5. After defeating him it felt good, he is a fairly difficult fight, and it’s satisfying to finally finish him off, but it’s also not a feeling of relief in the sense of ‘this is finally over I don’t need to fight him again’, it’s more of a ‘that was a great fight and I got through it in a good attempt’ sort of feeling, and you want to go back in just for fun
    6. I liked e node system, they provided a level of change in the fight which was significant, but didn’t completely break the fight or make it 10x harder/easier, I liked that you can pick and choose which nodes if you’re going for completion, and that they provide both an advantage and a disadvantage

  • The42ndDoctorThe42ndDoctor Posts: 6
    I so rarely comment of the forums but something this important and such a great fight calls for it!

    1.) What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?
    Highly skill based; can be done with any champion

    2.) What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
    In general it was alot of fun, but missing a prompt call was frustrating as you'd have a small amount of time to try every possible one and figure it out

    3.) What would you change in the fight?
    Prompts should show on the screen instead of a single call-out, either with continual text or with an icon similar to Mojo

    4.) What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
    More skill based encounters, Wounded States are a great way to reward the player for doing things correctly and also allows you guys to build the fight with alot more health. Prompts are an interesting and skill based aspect that worked very well in this fight

    5.) After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
    Very rewarded. I felt like it was a fun fight and rewarded my experience and skill, got easier as I kept doing it

    6.) How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
    The few paths that I have done, there wasn't much of a difference between them just slight changes that I think can help different summoners depending on their playstyles. All are doable
  • Horror_punkHorror_punk Posts: 987 ★★★★
    I hate reverse controls. That’s it
    Either make more synergies to counter that or more champs
  • VerreauxVerreaux Posts: 23
    1)What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?
    The second phase and the gaining of competence tokens through challenges most champions can complete to then deal hundreds of thousands of damage for playing well. The fight is very skill based in that it rewards you for doing basic game mechanics well and not demanding something like "resist a passive shock effect". Dodging his special 1 consistently but also having to react to it each time was also very enjoyable since it felt fair and had a different order each time.

    2)What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
    Probably the reversed controls in third phase, since it always happened just as the Grandmaster gained his fifth prompt and a bar of power, so often he would use it either just before or just after the controls reversed meaning it was a gamble how to dodge the SP1 and if you fail, it's usually death at that stage and means you deal very little damage since you need to wound him by completing the fifth prompt while reversed. Having reversed controls as a mechanic is fine, just that it happened at a point in the fight which made it very hard to work around.

    3)What would you change in the fight?
    -Change the "inflict the damage effect" to something else since it is one of the only challenges that a range of champs can't do on their basic hits or SP1, which means you're basically forced to fail it with some champs.
    -Move the timing of reversed controls so that it happens on the fourth prompt instead of the fifth, or at least at a point where the Grandmaster won't have the SP1 ready just before it happens to make it difficult to determine if you need to dodge it reversed or regularly.

    The rest of the fight is fine as it is.


    4)What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
    -Allow for a wide range of champions to handle the fight, so doesn't require specific utility to fight such as denying unstoppable or being immune to a very specific set of debuffs.
    -Reward playing around the mechanics of the fight, so things such as boosted damage or a bonus that helps better counter the boss abilities.
    -Links from paths that make the fight slightly more difficult or change the fight in some way, but don't make it absurdly impossible and unfair (looking at you no retreat in 6.2.6)
    -The phases mechanic for bosses works really well, although I hope we see another mid-fight cutscene like we did with Infinity War Thanos.
    -Reasonable attack values that allow some room for error (so not 20k)


    5)After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
    Very satisfied, needing to end the fight on the SP3 after surviving his final rage sort of gave the feeling that he was throwing everything into a last ditch effort to kill you and you finish him off with a flashy SP3. The fight felt fair and most deaths were due to personal error so I didn't feel frustrated afterwards.

    6)How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
    I liked most of the paths and links, although Rage + Lifecycle is not a fun combination with how much it limits your damage and also punishes you for blocking with bubble shield. The only link to Grandmaster that added a significant difficulty jump for me was Liability, where he gains an SP3 at 3 blunder tokens rather than 5. Not having that extra failsafe of 2 extra blunders added a lot more pressure on playing well and dodging his SP1 perfectly as any mistimed dodge on it would mean death. The Technique link was not as difficult but did extend the fight duration by a lot because of the capped competence tokens, which adds more room for error. I did like the range of changes that were added to the Grandmaster from the links to change the fight in some way, and is much better than adding nodes such as punishing dash backs with passive degen on a fight where the defender has insanely high block penetration and attack.
  • Thanks_D19Thanks_D19 Posts: 1,402 ★★★★
    I have never done the grandmaster fight myself so I can’t really give feedback but there is one design aspect I really really like about it that will probably be really important in the future, the grandmaster actually has negative block penetration, this actually improves your block proficiency and I think that is amazing design, it allows for punishing attack while not constantly chipping away at your health and I would love to see this not only on bosses but maybe on global nodes in the future where it either decreases opponent block penetration or increases your block proficiency
  • RasiloverRasilover Posts: 890 ★★★
    1.) Loved the token and challenge system. Heavily rewards you for building up competence so you can push through the fight while being engaged.
    2.) mainly his passive AI that triggers randomly causing him to not throw sp1s, doing mediums for intercept so he ends up getting to sp2 and punishing you during final phase.
    3.) get rid of the passive AI but besides that everything else is completely managable
    4.) would love to see more nodes that give you a bonus or "cure" for something that can mess you up.
    E.g No retreat but when you intercept you heal half of the damage you recieved from no retreat, or you can only do damage from medium intercepts but everytime you land one your attack stacks up to 300% of base attack. Pretty much nodes that reward a skill based objective that the player has to do.
    5.) Felt great about it as it is really rewarding when you beat him
    6.) All the paths are pretty annoying with hard combinations combined with the absurd attack values that the grandmaster doesn't
    Overall 6.4.6 is clearly the best end game so far.

    Periodt.
  • FloschkaFloschka Posts: 35
    First of all, I’m not very skilled when it comes to bossfights. Took me 30 min and 2.000 Units to beat him.

    What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?
    I don’t know if this counts, but I enjoyed his animations the most. He looks supercool, great job on that one. The best parts of the fight itself were definitely his „wounded“ phases, where I was able to see big damage on my beloved champs.

    What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
    That I get 4 blender with one special one that I fail to evade at the beginning. Made me want to cry everytime I messed up with the dex.

    What would you change in the fight?
    Cap the blender one can receive at a single SP1 at one. Would help a lot to get better into the rythm of his prompts. I died A LOT to that.

    What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
    I want to see more of that unique playstyle. The Grandmaster is an amazing and well-thought fight, please take your time to design more bosses with their own and unique style to fit their character.

    After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
    I felt great and frustrated at the same time. Spend like 2.000 Units in total, not proud of that. But I was happy that I finally got him down.

    How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
    Only fought him once, can’t really answer that...
  • AmonthirAmonthir Posts: 754 ★★★
    What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?
    Pretty much everything other than Inverted Controls. I felt the fight was very fairly designed, and probably the best boss in MCoC to date.

    What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
    Inverted Controls. Partly my inability to handle it well, partly because the timer is very hard to perfectly time when it’s right about to end while also watching GM who is about to special your face the moment that dodging becomes questionable. Maybe give it a numerical countdown?
    Thought maybe I could time a special for the changeover to give me space to adapt while preventing him from using his own special. Thought of it on my last path, the one where you can’t gain power -.-
    What would you change in the fight?
    The timing around inverted controls, maybe give him a brief animation that indicates the change while also preventing him from instantly L1ing the moment things get weird.

    What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
    Being rewarded for jumping through the boss’s hoops. Managing the prompts and challenges in the fight and getting those BIG YELLOW NUMBERS from the Wounded state feels awesome.
    After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
    Glad that Act 6 is over and done. He was fun, most everything else was either tolerable or a slog. Now, opening my rewards, on the other hand... not excited, not saddened.
    How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
    Other than the no power gain link, they were not that noticeable for either me or him. So nothing make or break, which is okay.
  • Panchulon21Panchulon21 Posts: 2,067 ★★★★★
    What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?
    - the fight it’s self was pretty fun. A good amount of time spent on each phase. No BS phase where you instantly die for whatever reason and no BS damage.
    What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
    - im not really a big fan of reverse controls. I think it’s a pain especially on a phone. With a control from a console it’s different. On a phone I would say naw.
    What would you change in the fight?
    - just the reverse controls. Everything else was very well thought out and fun.
    What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
    - the possibility of soloing with multiple champion like the grandmaster. Not where you need 1-2 counters and that’s it. This was really cool about the grandmaster. I’ve seen a lot of champs and some You wouldnt expect (like Jane Foster) do massive damage.
    After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
    - I wasn’t happy but wasn’t sad. It was cool. Just another notch on the belt. The RNG from rewards was really bad as usual.
    How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
    - the nodes were bad themselves. It was the paths leading up to him which were bad. A lot of insane block damage and damage you can’t control. The game needs to get away from things you can’t control. It turns the fights from using skill to using stash, units or money.
  • LiamvanEstharLiamvanEsthar Posts: 6

    What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?

    The possibility to fight the GM with every (your favorite) Champ

    What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?

    The truth, that remembers me that skill is a forgotten ability in this game that should be more important

    What would you change in the fight?

    Maybe a possibility to reduce the tokens of blunder with extra moves to compensate the fails. For example you are very good in intercept, but bad at combo manageing. so you faul the forbidden light attack, so you can compesate this mistake with extra intercepts

    What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?

    a similar way for explore the quest and beat the first road and the boss with literally every champ. in fact a "only skill path". other path can be specialised and test your different knowledge about the different champs and game mechanic. For example a path with knowledge to dex different SP from the distanz like Punisher's and get benefits from them (tokens of competent) and not punished so hard for blocking. other way you

    After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?

    satisfied

    How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?

    it was okay
  • GkeveryGkevery Posts: 29
    What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?
    I enjoyed the skill based aspect of the fight. enjoyed finally being able to block hits and not have to worry about “very specific 1-2 champ counters for the nodes(GM)/ or paths leading up to him.

    What aspect of the fight was most frustrating? hmm, frustrating.... difficult was the timing on reverse controlls. although can be dealt with via practice or champs that are immune to reverse. but main issue i had furing my run was some of my revives he would be stingy with his sp’s. and hold till sp3 despite keeping an open stance to try to bait the sp1, or even sp2...

    What would you change in the fight? maybe add a sp1/sp2 bias, seems how when he gets to sp3 its instant KO, and already run that risk failing with blunders anyway. but just a small change.

    What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights? i dont mind the labor/skill intensive fights. just over the specific counters that limit the fun of nit having X or Y counter because they are tied to AQ/AW. tuned health i can understand for boss nodes. just attack values are way out of controll. even act5.3 with the class restrictions was yes, teedious for exploration. but i dont mind so much the act5.3/V2 style of “reward” certain classes, champions, #’s as a way for people to rank “hidden gems”

    After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
    Felt good, relived. dissapointed in my play that it wasnt an over difficult fight, id say 90% of my revives/potions i used on him were because my do’ing, failing dex, poor spacing, miss parry ect. the other 10% just pure bad luck in him turtling up untill sp3.

    How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience? truthfully only did the 1 path so far as the rest of act6 explore is unapealing to me. for the most part, the different paths added a slight variation, but not something that couldnt be overcome. Just may require a different focus on an area/stage of the fight
  • simula67simula67 Posts: 46
    What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?
    In general, the fact that you can bring nearly any champ in the game against him and be able to solo the fight. At a more granular level, I enjoyed his second phase the most.

    What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
    I really disliked the reversed controls in the third phase. There is already so much on screen to pay attention to with the challenges, and only a few champions are a hard-counter to this mechanic.

    What would you change in the fight?
    In the first phase, I would first add on-screen counters for the tactics so you know exactly how many of each type you have left before they are banned. In one run, the "_____ banned" text never appeared and I was instantly dead from an SP3 seconds into the fight. I would also remove reverse controls from the final phase and consider changing the "inflict a damaging effect" challenge to something else, as not every champion inflicts DOT.

    What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
    For starters, a reasonable attack value. Having to fight a boss only once would also be nice, like the Infinity Nightmare Thanos.

    After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
    I felt good for about 10 minutes until I opened my Act 6 completion rewards and didn't get a single champion to help progress my account. The rewards were so deflating that I've only done 2-3 paths total since. I haven't touched anything in Act 6 for about a month now, and have no motivation to do so anymore.

    How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
    Not applicable for me as I have only completed one path.
  • Mr_PlatypusMr_Platypus Posts: 2,643 ★★★★★
    Aspects I enjoyed?
    It can be done with near enough any champion with enough skill.
    Attack values are low enough that making 1 tiny mistake, or 1 little bit of lag doesn’t mean you are dead.

    What was the most frustrating?
    Personally, the reversed controls, however I’m fully aware that that is part of the skill aspect of the fight and so I’m fine with it being there.

    What do I want to see in future boss fights?
    More like the grandmaster and and if they have to be like the champion, drop the attack values considerably.
    And no more fights like abyss collector, the answer should never be revives, and only revives.
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