Well...you guys aren't really doing this comparative analysis in the best way, imo... considering the way your conversations are going, you should be taking factors such as sig abilities and masteries into account. Well, I'm gonna pretty much ignore most masteries because that'll make for too long of a comment and because it's the skill class we're talking about, don't generally have immunities. Anyway....if they're all unawakened then stealthy is the best skill champ (fight me!) If they are all sig 200, then I'd say aegon. If they're all like at the point of awakening (super low sig), I'd say it's Nick. For prestige, it's obviously stealthy by a long shot! Now, all skill champs sig 200: Suicides: aegon, Ronin, blade, gwenpool, stealthy (quite limited tho), etc Deep wounds- Nick, blade, Ronin, gwenpool, killmonger, etc IDK, there are a lot of other masteries, but these outside of despair are the major. There are other skill champs obviously, these are the ones I can think of. If we're talking about synergies as well, then Nick is just....the synergy god of nowadays! So...in terms of general utility and/or path clearing potential in the most ideal conditions, I'd say: Fully ramped up aegon; Nick with his second life vs a non immune with his fury and unblockable active; Stealthy with his slow debuff, precision passive and fury passive; Blade with his full team; Gwenpool with above 50 hits+ armor break vs a non-immune; Ronin with SP 3 passive fury, passive precision and 7 cruelties. Guess I went beyond 5, but I don't know much about others like hit monkey and killmonger so this is a highly subjective list.
Cheers!
I think that’s a great way to break it down/look at it mate. Thanks!
Well...you guys aren't really doing this comparative analysis in the best way, imo... considering the way your conversations are going, you should be taking factors such as sig abilities and masteries into account. Well, I'm gonna pretty much ignore most masteries because that'll make for too long of a comment and because it's the skill class we're talking about, don't generally have immunities. Anyway....if they're all unawakened then stealthy is the best skill champ (fight me!) If they are all sig 200, then I'd say aegon. If they're all like at the point of awakening (super low sig), I'd say it's Nick. For prestige, it's obviously stealthy by a long shot! Now, all skill champs sig 200: Suicides: aegon, Ronin, blade, gwenpool, stealthy (quite limited tho), etc Deep wounds- Nick, blade, Ronin, gwenpool, killmonger, etc IDK, there are a lot of other masteries, but these outside of despair are the major. There are other skill champs obviously, these are the ones I can think of. If we're talking about synergies as well, then Nick is just....the synergy god of nowadays! So...in terms of general utility and/or path clearing potential in the most ideal conditions, I'd say: Fully ramped up aegon; Nick with his second life vs a non immune with his fury and unblockable active; Stealthy with his slow debuff, precision passive and fury passive; Blade with his full team; Gwenpool with above 50 hits+ armor break vs a non-immune; Ronin with SP 3 passive fury, passive precision and 7 cruelties. Guess I went beyond 5, but I don't know much about others like hit monkey and killmonger so this is a highly subjective list.
Cheers!
I think that’s a great way to break it down/look at it mate. Thanks!
When comparing an unduped Night Trasher and an unduped Ronin, I'd take the Ronin every time, but between a sig200 NT and a sig200 Ronin, the clear choice is NT. Now, I love both of these champions, but they also aren't exactly comparable since they have different functions. Ronin's--at least for me--primary functions are for fighting Things, fights where I need a lot of bleeds and can't use Fury (usually in AW or AQ), fights where I need to intercept (I find Ronin to be the easiest champ to intercept with), and fights where I get punished for using a lot of specials (Ronin's ideal rotation is build up to 7 cruelties, sp3, repeat). Additionally, I bring Ronin whenever I use Ant-Man, since their synergy makes playing Ant-Man way more enjoyable. Lastly, Ronin is just a plain fun champ to play. Night Trasher's primary functions are for fighting evade champs, incinerate immunity, fights where I need the Taunt (though my 6r1 is unfortunately still unawakened so he really doesn't get used too much), and fights where I need a constant shock/incinerate up. Night Thrasher is an incredibly fun champion to play and I will take him up to r2 and hopefully r3 once I awaken and sig him up. So in my opinion, you can't really compare them since they have different base functions. It's like this with most champions too. It's hard to compare Blade to Ronin since they have different functions as well. There's no champ who can do it all and it's important to rank up champs that can handle niche utility, like Ronin and Night Trasher.
Bro i am fan of ronin too he has some really awsome animation i like it but seems sometimes he has very short bleed span that ends soo quickly and his bleed is not much great if he got fix a bit he could be awsome
@Masterpuff is there any secret utility other than damage that he has? I know build up the cruelties through different stages but other than that damage any utility? Blade has infinite regen, and probably the easiest to get on command from any champ, so he has extreme survivability.
Yes, Ronin has tons of utility. He can sustain defensive ability accuracy reduction that is equal of blade’s danger sense in all matchups. He can also get a near 100% chance to perfect block, a clutch evade, disorient, the ability to Bleed on blocks plus a few more things.
IMO the reason he's very inferior to blade is to get the benefits with blade, I "just" have to be bring the right synergies. Understandable that not everyone has him or his synergy-mates OR has them in 5* or whatever - but it's a LOT less work to do what he does than learning all the Ronin combinations.
I have Blade, GR, and Starky as a 5*, but still prefer Ronin. I just never liked blade as much. But that does come down to my personal opinion.
When comparing an unduped Night Trasher and an unduped Ronin, I'd take the Ronin every time, but between a sig200 NT and a sig200 Ronin, the clear choice is NT. Now, I love both of these champions, but they also aren't exactly comparable since they have different functions. Ronin's--at least for me--primary functions are for fighting Things, fights where I need a lot of bleeds and can't use Fury (usually in AW or AQ), fights where I need to intercept (I find Ronin to be the easiest champ to intercept with), and fights where I get punished for using a lot of specials (Ronin's ideal rotation is build up to 7 cruelties, sp3, repeat). Additionally, I bring Ronin whenever I use Ant-Man, since their synergy makes playing Ant-Man way more enjoyable. Lastly, Ronin is just a plain fun champ to play. Night Trasher's primary functions are for fighting evade champs, incinerate immunity, fights where I need the Taunt (though my 6r1 is unfortunately still unawakened so he really doesn't get used too much), and fights where I need a constant shock/incinerate up. Night Thrasher is an incredibly fun champion to play and I will take him up to r2 and hopefully r3 once I awaken and sig him up. So in my opinion, you can't really compare them since they have different base functions. It's like this with most champions too. It's hard to compare Blade to Ronin since they have different functions as well. There's no champ who can do it all and it's important to rank up champs that can handle niche utility, like Ronin and Night Trasher.
On the one hand I wouldn't call a complete and permanent evade and autoblock counter niche and on the other hand I wouldn't really say ronin even has a niche.
He is a great thing counter, but that's not enough to be an actual niche. He has bleed, but then again his bleeds are way too weak for stuff like "do you bleed?".
Abd that's essentially what I mean. There are skill champs that simply surpass him in utility, or just general usefulness including niche uses, while being at least on par with him in any other aspect. And of those there are most likely more than 5, making it hard for me to see how he could ever be in the top 5 of that class.
I'm not saying NT is better at what he does than ronin is at what he does. I'm saying NT is better than ronin period and even he isn't widely considered in the top 5.
Ronin shines in any matchup where the opponent is bleed immune. You build cruelty insanely fast.
When comparing an unduped Night Trasher and an unduped Ronin, I'd take the Ronin every time, but between a sig200 NT and a sig200 Ronin, the clear choice is NT. Now, I love both of these champions, but they also aren't exactly comparable since they have different functions. Ronin's--at least for me--primary functions are for fighting Things, fights where I need a lot of bleeds and can't use Fury (usually in AW or AQ), fights where I need to intercept (I find Ronin to be the easiest champ to intercept with), and fights where I get punished for using a lot of specials (Ronin's ideal rotation is build up to 7 cruelties, sp3, repeat). Additionally, I bring Ronin whenever I use Ant-Man, since their synergy makes playing Ant-Man way more enjoyable. Lastly, Ronin is just a plain fun champ to play. Night Trasher's primary functions are for fighting evade champs, incinerate immunity, fights where I need the Taunt (though my 6r1 is unfortunately still unawakened so he really doesn't get used too much), and fights where I need a constant shock/incinerate up. Night Thrasher is an incredibly fun champion to play and I will take him up to r2 and hopefully r3 once I awaken and sig him up. So in my opinion, you can't really compare them since they have different base functions. It's like this with most champions too. It's hard to compare Blade to Ronin since they have different functions as well. There's no champ who can do it all and it's important to rank up champs that can handle niche utility, like Ronin and Night Trasher.
On the one hand I wouldn't call a complete and permanent evade and autoblock counter niche and on the other hand I wouldn't really say ronin even has a niche.
He is a great thing counter, but that's not enough to be an actual niche. He has bleed, but then again his bleeds are way too weak for stuff like "do you bleed?".
Abd that's essentially what I mean. There are skill champs that simply surpass him in utility, or just general usefulness including niche uses, while being at least on par with him in any other aspect. And of those there are most likely more than 5, making it hard for me to see how he could ever be in the top 5 of that class.
I'm not saying NT is better at what he does than ronin is at what he does. I'm saying NT is better than ronin period and even he isn't widely considered in the top 5.
NT being top 5 may not be as marginal a thought as it may seem. He's top 4 here:
When comparing an unduped Night Trasher and an unduped Ronin, I'd take the Ronin every time, but between a sig200 NT and a sig200 Ronin, the clear choice is NT. Now, I love both of these champions, but they also aren't exactly comparable since they have different functions. Ronin's--at least for me--primary functions are for fighting Things, fights where I need a lot of bleeds and can't use Fury (usually in AW or AQ), fights where I need to intercept (I find Ronin to be the easiest champ to intercept with), and fights where I get punished for using a lot of specials (Ronin's ideal rotation is build up to 7 cruelties, sp3, repeat). Additionally, I bring Ronin whenever I use Ant-Man, since their synergy makes playing Ant-Man way more enjoyable. Lastly, Ronin is just a plain fun champ to play. Night Trasher's primary functions are for fighting evade champs, incinerate immunity, fights where I need the Taunt (though my 6r1 is unfortunately still unawakened so he really doesn't get used too much), and fights where I need a constant shock/incinerate up. Night Thrasher is an incredibly fun champion to play and I will take him up to r2 and hopefully r3 once I awaken and sig him up. So in my opinion, you can't really compare them since they have different base functions. It's like this with most champions too. It's hard to compare Blade to Ronin since they have different functions as well. There's no champ who can do it all and it's important to rank up champs that can handle niche utility, like Ronin and Night Trasher.
On the one hand I wouldn't call a complete and permanent evade and autoblock counter niche and on the other hand I wouldn't really say ronin even has a niche.
He is a great thing counter, but that's not enough to be an actual niche. He has bleed, but then again his bleeds are way too weak for stuff like "do you bleed?".
Abd that's essentially what I mean. There are skill champs that simply surpass him in utility, or just general usefulness including niche uses, while being at least on par with him in any other aspect. And of those there are most likely more than 5, making it hard for me to see how he could ever be in the top 5 of that class.
I'm not saying NT is better at what he does than ronin is at what he does. I'm saying NT is better than ronin period and even he isn't widely considered in the top 5.
NT being top 5 may not be as marginal a thought as it may seem. He's top 4 here:
For those of you that disagreed and tried to convince me otherwise... here is physical evidence of Korg outdamaging Ronin as well as beating him by almost 40 seconds. The armor breaks scale greatly based on rank so it would just go up from there. What you want evidence of his utility vs Ronin's next?
You are wrong about Blade, he does not need synergy his regen alone at max sig makes him an excellent aq champion, better upside and minimal skill is needed for an average player
For those of you that disagreed and tried to convince me otherwise... here is physical evidence of Korg outdamaging Ronin as well as beating him by almost 40 seconds. The armor breaks scale greatly based on rank so it would just go up from there. What you want evidence of his utility vs Ronin's next?
What teams did you bring? Or were those just solely the said champ. Also, you werent running deep wounds at max it seems, so Ronin has less damage. You can think that korg is better, I can think that Ronin is better. It’s an opinion
You are wrong about Blade, he does not need synergy his regen alone at max sig makes him an excellent aq champion, better upside and minimal skill is needed for an average player
That’s one of the great parts about Blade, but if you enjoy a high skill play style, Ronin is more fun. But not as sustainable.
For those of you that disagreed and tried to convince me otherwise... here is physical evidence of Korg outdamaging Ronin as well as beating him by almost 40 seconds. The armor breaks scale greatly based on rank so it would just go up from there. What you want evidence of his utility vs Ronin's next?
What teams did you bring? Or were those just solely the said champ. Also, you werent running deep wounds at max it seems, so Ronin has less damage. You can think that korg is better, I can think that Ronin is better. It’s an opinion
I brought Gulk and Mojo for Korg, CMM and Guilly for Ronin. Since Deep Wounds only adds 2.5 seconds of bleed duration and the CMM synergy extends them by up to 1.5 secs I highly doubt the results would've been much different. Nothing special about Ronin compared to many other skills, including Korg. Impractical and overly agreesive playstyle for such little payoff. He could really use a tune up.
For those of you that disagreed and tried to convince me otherwise... here is physical evidence of Korg outdamaging Ronin as well as beating him by almost 40 seconds. The armor breaks scale greatly based on rank so it would just go up from there. What you want evidence of his utility vs Ronin's next?
What teams did you bring? Or were those just solely the said champ. Also, you werent running deep wounds at max it seems, so Ronin has less damage. You can think that korg is better, I can think that Ronin is better. It’s an opinion
I brought Gulk and Mojo for Korg, CMM and Guilly for Ronin. Since Deep Wounds only adds 2.5 seconds of bleed duration and the CMM synergy extends them by up to 1.5 secs I highly doubt the results would've been much different. Nothing special about Ronin compared to many other skills, including Korg. Impractical and overly agreesive playstyle for such little payoff. He could really use a tune up.
The instant damage on bleed is the nice part, and those synergies add WAY more value to Korg than the other two do to Ronin. He doesn’t need a tune up. Many champs do, not him. And don’t hate on his play style, some people such as myself enjoy it.
For those of you that disagreed and tried to convince me otherwise... here is physical evidence of Korg outdamaging Ronin as well as beating him by almost 40 seconds. The armor breaks scale greatly based on rank so it would just go up from there. What you want evidence of his utility vs Ronin's next?
What teams did you bring? Or were those just solely the said champ. Also, you werent running deep wounds at max it seems, so Ronin has less damage. You can think that korg is better, I can think that Ronin is better. It’s an opinion
I brought Gulk and Mojo for Korg, CMM and Guilly for Ronin. Since Deep Wounds only adds 2.5 seconds of bleed duration and the CMM synergy extends them by up to 1.5 secs I highly doubt the results would've been much different. Nothing special about Ronin compared to many other skills, including Korg. Impractical and overly agreesive playstyle for such little payoff. He could really use a tune up.
The instant damage on bleed is the nice part, and those synergies add WAY more value to Korg than the other two do to Ronin. He doesn’t need a tune up. Many champs do, not him. And don’t hate on his play style, some people such as myself enjoy it.
Well you can personally enjoy him all you want but a majority of people will not bother to use the champion at all. Fun is subjective by the way. Not everyone will agree that Ronin is more "fun" than Blade.
For those of you that disagreed and tried to convince me otherwise... here is physical evidence of Korg outdamaging Ronin as well as beating him by almost 40 seconds. The armor breaks scale greatly based on rank so it would just go up from there. What you want evidence of his utility vs Ronin's next?
What teams did you bring? Or were those just solely the said champ. Also, you werent running deep wounds at max it seems, so Ronin has less damage. You can think that korg is better, I can think that Ronin is better. It’s an opinion
I brought Gulk and Mojo for Korg, CMM and Guilly for Ronin. Since Deep Wounds only adds 2.5 seconds of bleed duration and the CMM synergy extends them by up to 1.5 secs I highly doubt the results would've been much different. Nothing special about Ronin compared to many other skills, including Korg. Impractical and overly agreesive playstyle for such little payoff. He could really use a tune up.
The instant damage on bleed is the nice part, and those synergies add WAY more value to Korg than the other two do to Ronin. He doesn’t need a tune up. Many champs do, not him. And don’t hate on his play style, some people such as myself enjoy it.
Well you can personally enjoy him all you want but a majority of people will not bother to use the champion at all. Fun is subjective by the way. Not everyone will agree that Ronin is more "fun" than Blade.
Not everyone enjoys a skilled play style. Not everyone enjoys quakes play style, that doesn’t devalue her though.(Not that Ronin is even close to quakes level.)
Comments
Ronin's--at least for me--primary functions are for fighting Things, fights where I need a lot of bleeds and can't use Fury (usually in AW or AQ), fights where I need to intercept (I find Ronin to be the easiest champ to intercept with), and fights where I get punished for using a lot of specials (Ronin's ideal rotation is build up to 7 cruelties, sp3, repeat). Additionally, I bring Ronin whenever I use Ant-Man, since their synergy makes playing Ant-Man way more enjoyable. Lastly, Ronin is just a plain fun champ to play.
Night Trasher's primary functions are for fighting evade champs, incinerate immunity, fights where I need the Taunt (though my 6r1 is unfortunately still unawakened so he really doesn't get used too much), and fights where I need a constant shock/incinerate up. Night Thrasher is an incredibly fun champion to play and I will take him up to r2 and hopefully r3 once I awaken and sig him up.
So in my opinion, you can't really compare them since they have different base functions. It's like this with most champions too. It's hard to compare Blade to Ronin since they have different functions as well. There's no champ who can do it all and it's important to rank up champs that can handle niche utility, like Ronin and Night Trasher.