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How many end game Players run suicides?

DonnymeijDonnymeij Posts: 680 ★★★
How many end game Players run the suicide mastery setup?
I see a lot of youtubers run them. And only very few without (only Seatin comes to mind)
Could you also explain why you do/don't.
I have had them for quite some time because I use Corvus and Omega a lot. But have recently pulled Nice Champs that are less friendly with them. Which made me start to wonder how viable a non suicide build would be. Since I am also planning on Taking it slower with the unit grind in Arena.

Please only Cavalier answer (preferably people who, like me, completed the initial run of Act 6.
Thnx

How many end game Players run suicides? 153 votes

I run suicides fulltime
43%
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I run suicides parttime
13%
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I never run suicides
43%
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Comments

  • Colinwhitworth69Colinwhitworth69 Posts: 2,815 ★★★★★
    I just enabled them for the first time, testing them as full SM but thinking I'm gonna drop Double Edge so I can use more of my roster.
  • Etm34Etm34 Posts: 1,009 ★★★★
    I never run suicides
    I’ve never run them, so I really don’t know how much greater the damage is. I’ve managed to 100% everything but abyss just fine without them, but I’m open to testing suicides out
  • DoubleDeltaDoubleDelta Posts: 1,991 ★★★★
    I run suicides fulltime
    Try to run when possible, switch them off 50% of war season. Only started using them after my abyss run
  • linuxlinux Posts: 285
    edited July 2020
    I run suicides parttime
    I run half suicides almost all the time -- just Double Edge. I have some champs where Liquid Courage would be free to add; but I sometimes run champs without immunities, and I don't want to re-spec; the bleed damage from half suicides isn't too bad, but running both at the same time costs more every match.

    Champs where DE is helpful include at least: Corvus, OR, Magik (or just recoil by itself), G2099 + Warlock, BWCV, Guardian ...
  • ccrider474ccrider474 Posts: 223 ★★
    I never run suicides
    I find they are too restrictive in which champs you can use. Take resistor path or 1/2 sp use, ronan cheese can't be done as you will recoil yourself to death. Kang in v3 spark or hype are no longer an option because of recoil. Champs that rely heavily on their sp usage like vision become useless. Aw defense is useless.

    Some champs it's fantastic for but it really limits your roster for day to day stuff. I have them unlocked for big arena pushes or legend runs but mostly leave them off.
  • spaceoctopusspaceoctopus Posts: 1,093 ★★★
    I run suicides parttime
    I’ll run them on occasion, but haven’t in a while because I love using Doom and Sunspot too much and the recoil is just too brutal for those champs and my play style.
  • Speeds80Speeds80 Posts: 1,760 ★★★★
    I’ve run act 6 but I play a mid range game these days, I went through a phase where I ran double edge and let OR and CG do the majority of the work, but I got sick of how limited it made my roster use( missed having the option of running several options in war without constant potions for recoil damage) , I guess now I have r5 ghost rider, warlock and g99 I should be tempted again, but I don’t really miss it
  • DeaconVelvetDeaconVelvet Posts: 1,681 ★★★★
    I never run suicides
    i was going to try it once but never did and i do just fine without them
  • ImGodMFImGodMF Posts: 459 ★★★
    I run suicides fulltime
    Only take them off for Abyss. 6r3 corvus is one of my mains
  • ChriissRChriissR Posts: 377 ★★★
    I run suicides fulltime
    I run them full-time and switch them off for placing AW defence.

    Ghost and Corvus don't feel good enough without them on. Must have for me.
  • qartweliqartweli Posts: 505 ★★★
    I never run suicides
    if yu want to be in masters u will have to redo mastery twice every war and yes u do need suicides
  • H3t3rH3t3r Posts: 1,443 ★★★★
    I never run suicides
    I haven't even purchased any of the suicides masterys. Probably will when I get my 6* OR duped or a ghost as a 5 or 6*
  • PintzzPintzz Posts: 275 ★★
    I never run suicides
    I personally have had them only briefly. I like spamming specials and have a lot of champs that benefit from special usage. I have the others as well but I find using al levels of specials more satisfying when fighting longer fights. I have explored everything
  • GagoHGagoH Posts: 1,512 ★★★★

    I run them full time. Firstly, having maxed WP and coagulate is reccomended. Here's the way it works for me. My work horse champs or main lane clearing champs are all suicide friendly. Corvus, Omega, Ghost, Quake, CV, Aegon, etc. are all what I'd call work horse champs. They can be used to quickly clear a majority of fights. Just choose whichever out of that list suits the path best. Then, you can fill in the rest of your team with champs for specific encounters. If there are some encounters that your work horse champs are not suited for. Even if specialist champs you bring are not entirely suicide friendly, you only need them for a handful of encounters. The recoil won't be a deal breaker.

    Now, if you attempt to clear an entire lane with non-friendly champs, you'll need to drop some potions probably. Make sense? So, if there is an entire lane that none of your friendly champs will work for, thats when you do a cost/benefit analysis to decide what is cheaper. Spend around 80 units to respec or use a few items to compensate for the recoil, etc. There were certainly a few paths in act 6 exploration where it was way cheaper to respec for 80 units, but it wasn't actually that many.

    The other factor to consider is that ending a fight 60% faster in itself can save you health, not the other way around. One could argue that the longer you are in the fight, the more opportunity you have to make a mistake. And everyone makes mistakes. So clearing the fight faster can save you a KO or huge loss of health especially against an oppenent with high attack. Speaking of high attack, suicides can also save you chip damage from blocking. The extra chip damage taken in a fight that lasts 60% longer can easily rival the damage taken from recoil or the dot (if even applicable). In medium length encounters you will often finish with an sp2 so recoil would only be applicable in longer fights. I think one of the things those who are worried about recoil are missing is that with 60% more damage you are not relying on multiple specials for your damage now:)


    You can even argue it's a QOL decision to run them. You are clearing all your fights 60% faster. Which means you can log in an accomplish what you want to accomplish 60% faster. For me, in AQ specifically, suicides *saves* me items. With many of the nodes found there, the longer the fight goes on, the more trouble they can become. Ending the fight quickly is a great counter for many nodes:) Aon, degen..etc. The defender cannot use sp3 or degen you if they are dead:)

    Very informative post, making me consider making the switch 👌
  • StevieManWonderStevieManWonder Posts: 3,463 ★★★★★
    I run suicides parttime
    It depends.
    First off, if mastery respecs were free or cheaper like they should be, I’d be running Suicides a lot more. I have champs that greatly benefit/need them (6r2 Corvus, Ghost, Sentinel, 5/65 Claire, Sparkles, Colossus etc), but a lot of the champs I use daily are harmed by Suicides (Void, Sunspot, Ant-Man, Sym, Mister Fantastic, Punisher 2099, etc), so I usually keep them off during the first half of the month while I do UC through Master EQ, then turn them back on the second half so I can grind arena and AQ faster. Lately, however, I’ve just been keeping them off since I like to have the full breadth of my roster available to me at all times without having to spend a bunch of units to use them practically
  • StevieManWonderStevieManWonder Posts: 3,463 ★★★★★
    I run suicides parttime
    BTW, I have all content except for Variant 1 and LoL 100% completed
  • gage201205gage201205 Posts: 462 ★★★
    I never run suicides
    I personally never have because it's restrictions toward AW defense.. but yeah if running Act 6 or Abyss or larger content in future is probably worth it 60% towards attack plus 30% boost and 20% attack boost is huge. Until they find a way to turn them off effectively without wasting units it's not worth it. Most YouTubers run arena which suicides boost scores so that's why they also run them.
  • AdixRajAdixRaj Posts: 114
    I run suicides fulltime
    I run full suicides with recoil maxed , never switch them off and I haven’t used a potion in aq or event quests ever
  • MoosetiptronicMoosetiptronic Posts: 886 ★★★
    edited July 2020
    I run suicides fulltime
    I'm only cav and v4 100%. But I use them all the time. Main Omega, corvus, Morningstar, Medusa and sentinel, who are all friendly to a degree.

    My 4/55 1/25 support team for them, variously, don't completely suck with suicides; quake, mephisto, bishop, she hulk, collosus..

    Next 5/65 will be she hulk or quake (plus Hyperion) and the latter 2 aren't that suicide friendly. Although, she hulk, Hyperion (and Medusa) are all poison immune and in long fights can get by by saving to sp3 to avoid recoil damage or if you are spamming sp1, it's often because it's a one off fight.

    The ones that are making me reconsider are collosus, sabertooth, g2099 and torch (all 4/55).

    But as Omega is sig 200 and can auto fight all of masters, including bosses (bar robots and bpcw), with quake and Nick synergy, that alone is making me think I'll keep them on for a long time...

    Love @hungryhungrybbq post, reinforced my view, although @StevieManWonder is proper end game (as are seatin and the GOAT, Swedeah) and don't use suicides. Properly hard decision!
  • Lvernon15Lvernon15 Posts: 10,653 ★★★★★
    I run suicides fulltime
    Grumpy said:

    I only run half suicides I don’t use poison only double edge x3 I find it better than running full suicides but that’s just me

    I’ve never been a fan of half suicides personally, the majority of the drawback is recoil, and with half suicides you’re getting half the benefit for far more than half of the negative
  • Capn_DanteCapn_Dante Posts: 471 ★★
    I run suicides fulltime
    Did an initial act 6 completion, 100% all variants and initial run on the abyss

    I've run full suicides for everything but the abyss... Have though about turning them off but can't imagine arena/aq without them... I also max coagulate and willpower which makes fights with non friendly champs more manageable
  • Haji_SaabHaji_Saab Posts: 5,227 ★★★★★
    I never run suicides
    I don't like playing the game with half of the champs without half of their abilities. Hence, no suicides.
  • DonnymeijDonnymeij Posts: 680 ★★★
    Thank you for your replies all!!! A lot of great feedback.
    Very nice information to read through.
    Going to try a labyrinth attempt with sabretooth and will probably turn them off to be able to throw my specials better.
    And will try some other content while I have them disabled.
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 1,150 ★★★
    I run suicides fulltime
    GagoH said:

    I run them full time. Firstly, having maxed WP and coagulate is reccomended. Here's the way it works for me. My work horse champs or main lane clearing champs are all suicide friendly. Corvus, Omega, Ghost, Quake, CV, Aegon, etc. are all what I'd call work horse champs. They can be used to quickly clear a majority of fights. Just choose whichever out of that list suits the path best. Then, you can fill in the rest of your team with champs for specific encounters. If there are some encounters that your work horse champs are not suited for. Even if specialist champs you bring are not entirely suicide friendly, you only need them for a handful of encounters. The recoil won't be a deal breaker.

    Now, if you attempt to clear an entire lane with non-friendly champs, you'll need to drop some potions probably. Make sense? So, if there is an entire lane that none of your friendly champs will work for, thats when you do a cost/benefit analysis to decide what is cheaper. Spend around 80 units to respec or use a few items to compensate for the recoil, etc. There were certainly a few paths in act 6 exploration where it was way cheaper to respec for 80 units, but it wasn't actually that many.

    The other factor to consider is that ending a fight 60% faster in itself can save you health, not the other way around. One could argue that the longer you are in the fight, the more opportunity you have to make a mistake. And everyone makes mistakes. So clearing the fight faster can save you a KO or huge loss of health especially against an oppenent with high attack. Speaking of high attack, suicides can also save you chip damage from blocking. The extra chip damage taken in a fight that lasts 60% longer can easily rival the damage taken from recoil or the dot (if even applicable). In medium length encounters you will often finish with an sp2 so recoil would only be applicable in longer fights. I think one of the things those who are worried about recoil are missing is that with 60% more damage you are not relying on multiple specials for your damage now:)


    You can even argue it's a QOL decision to run them. You are clearing all your fights 60% faster. Which means you can log in an accomplish what you want to accomplish 60% faster. For me, in AQ specifically, suicides *saves* me items. With many of the nodes found there, the longer the fight goes on, the more trouble they can become. Ending the fight quickly is a great counter for many nodes:) Aon, degen..etc. The defender cannot use sp3 or degen you if they are dead:)

    Very informative post, making me consider making the switch 👌
    Thanks for the positive feedback! Sorry for such a long read:)
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 1,150 ★★★
    I run suicides fulltime

    I'm only cav and v4 100%. But I use them all the time. Main Omega, corvus, Morningstar, Medusa and sentinel, who are all friendly to a degree.

    My 4/55 1/25 support team for them, variously, don't completely suck with suicides; quake, mephisto, bishop, she hulk, collosus..

    Next 5/65 will be she hulk or quake (plus Hyperion) and the latter 2 aren't that suicide friendly. Although, she hulk, Hyperion (and Medusa) are all poison immune and in long fights can get by by saving to sp3 to avoid recoil damage or if you are spamming sp1, it's often because it's a one off fight.

    The ones that are making me reconsider are collosus, sabertooth, g2099 and torch (all 4/55).

    But as Omega is sig 200 and can auto fight all of masters, including bosses (bar robots and bpcw), with quake and Nick synergy, that alone is making me think I'll keep them on for a long time...

    Love @hungryhungrybbq post, reinforced my view, although @StevieManWonder is proper end game (as are seatin and the GOAT, Swedeah) and don't use suicides. Properly hard decision!

    Thanks!
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