How many end game Players run suicides?

How many end game Players run the suicide mastery setup?
I see a lot of youtubers run them. And only very few without (only Seatin comes to mind)
Could you also explain why you do/don't.
I have had them for quite some time because I use Corvus and Omega a lot. But have recently pulled Nice Champs that are less friendly with them. Which made me start to wonder how viable a non suicide build would be. Since I am also planning on Taking it slower with the unit grind in Arena.

Please only Cavalier answer (preferably people who, like me, completed the initial run of Act 6.
Thnx

Comments

Colinwhitworth69

I just enabled them for the first time, testing them as full SM but thinking I'm gonna drop Double Edge so I can use more of my roster.

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Etm34

I’ve never run them, so I really don’t know how much greater the damage is. I’ve managed to 100% everything but abyss just fine without them, but I’m open to testing suicides out

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Lvernon15

I rarely ever turn them off, they’ve probably been off for about 30 hours in 2020

Thanks_D19

I run half scuicides all the time

ccrider474

I find they are too restrictive in which champs you can use. Take resistor path or 1/2 sp use, ronan cheese can't be done as you will recoil yourself to death. Kang in v3 spark or hype are no longer an option because of recoil. Champs that rely heavily on their sp usage like vision become useless. Aw defense is useless.

Some champs it's fantastic for but it really limits your roster for day to day stuff. I have them unlocked for big arena pushes or legend runs but mostly leave them off.

spaceoctopus

I’ll run them on occasion, but haven’t in a while because I love using Doom and Sunspot too much and the recoil is just too brutal for those champs and my play style.

Speeds80

I’ve run act 6 but I play a mid range game these days, I went through a phase where I ran double edge and let OR and CG do the majority of the work, but I got sick of how limited it made my roster use( missed having the option of running several options in war without constant potions for recoil damage) , I guess now I have r5 ghost rider, warlock and g99 I should be tempted again, but I don’t really miss it

Deacon

i was going to try it once but never did and i do just fine without them

ImGodMF

Only take them off for Abyss. 6r3 corvus is one of my mains

ChriissR

I run them full-time and switch them off for placing AW defence.

Ghost and Corvus don't feel good enough without them on. Must have for me.

hungryhungrybbq

I run them full time. Firstly, having maxed WP and coagulate is reccomended. Here's the way it works for me. My work horse champs or main lane clearing champs are all suicide friendly. Corvus, Omega, Ghost, Quake, CV, Aegon, etc. are all what I'd call work horse champs. They can be used to quickly clear a majority of fights. Just choose whichever out of that list suits the path best. Then, you can fill in the rest of your team with champs for specific encounters. If there are some encounters that your work horse champs are not suited for. Even if specialist champs you bring are not entirely suicide friendly, you only need them for a handful of encounters. The recoil won't be a deal breaker.

Now, if you attempt to clear an entire lane with non-friendly champs, you'll need to drop some potions probably. Make sense? So, if there is an entire lane that none of your friendly champs will work for, thats when you do a cost/benefit analysis to decide what is cheaper. Spend around 80 units to respec or use a few items to compensate for the recoil, etc. There were certainly a few paths in act 6 exploration where it was way cheaper to respec for 80 units, but it wasn't actually that many.

The other factor to consider is that ending a fight 60% faster in itself can save you health, not the other way around. One could argue that the longer you are in the fight, the more opportunity you have to make a mistake. And everyone makes mistakes. So clearing the fight faster can save you a KO or huge loss of health especially against an oppenent with high attack. Speaking of high attack, suicides can also save you chip damage from blocking. The extra chip damage taken in a fight that lasts 60% longer can easily rival the damage taken from recoil or the dot (if even applicable). In medium length encounters you will often finish with an sp2 so recoil would only be applicable in longer fights. I think one of the things those who are worried about recoil are missing is that with 60% more damage you are not relying on multiple specials for your damage now:)

You can even argue it's a QOL decision to run them. You are clearing all your fights 60% faster. Which means you can log in an accomplish what you want to accomplish 60% faster. For me, in AQ specifically, suicides *saves* me items. With many of the nodes found there, the longer the fight goes on, the more trouble they can become. Ending the fight quickly is a great counter for many nodes:) Aon, degen..etc. The defender cannot use sp3 or degen you if they are dead:)

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H3t3r

I haven't even purchased any of the suicides masterys. Probably will when I get my 6* OR duped or a ghost as a 5 or 6*

Pintzz

I personally have had them only briefly. I like spamming specials and have a lot of champs that benefit from special usage. I have the others as well but I find using al levels of specials more satisfying when fighting longer fights. I have explored everything

Polygon

I run them full time. Firstly, having maxed WP and coagulate is reccomended. Here's the way it works for me. My work horse champs or main lane clearing champs are all suicide friendly. Corvus, Omega, Ghost, Quake, CV, Aegon, etc. are all what I'd call work horse champs. They can be used to quickly clear a majority of fights. Just choose whichever out of that list suits the path best. Then, you can fill in the rest of your team with champs for specific encounters. If there are some encounters that your work horse champs are not suited for. Even if specialist champs you bring are not entirely suicide friendly, you only need them for a handful of encounters. The recoil won't be a deal breaker.

Now, if you attempt to clear an entire lane with non-friendly champs, you'll need to drop some potions probably. Make sense? So, if there is an entire lane that none of your friendly champs will work for, thats when you do a cost/benefit analysis to decide what is cheaper. Spend around 80 units to respec or use a few items to compensate for the recoil, etc. There were certainly a few paths in act 6 exploration where it was way cheaper to respec for 80 units, but it wasn't actually that many.

The other factor to consider is that ending a fight 60% faster in itself can save you health, not the other way around. One could argue that the longer you are in the fight, the more opportunity you have to make a mistake. And everyone makes mistakes. So clearing the fight faster can save you a KO or huge loss of health especially against an oppenent with high attack. Speaking of high attack, suicides can also save you chip damage from blocking. The extra chip damage taken in a fight that lasts 60% longer can easily rival the damage taken from recoil or the dot (if even applicable). In medium length encounters you will often finish with an sp2 so recoil would only be applicable in longer fights. I think one of the things those who are worried about recoil are missing is that with 60% more damage you are not relying on multiple specials for your damage now:)

You can even argue it's a QOL decision to run them. You are clearing all your fights 60% faster. Which means you can log in an accomplish what you want to accomplish 60% faster. For me, in AQ specifically, suicides *saves* me items. With many of the nodes found there, the longer the fight goes on, the more trouble they can become. Ending the fight quickly is a great counter for many nodes:) Aon, degen..etc. The defender cannot use sp3 or degen you if they are dead:)

Very informative post, making me consider making the switch 👌

StevieManWonder

It depends.
First off, if mastery respecs were free or cheaper like they should be, I’d be running Suicides a lot more. I have champs that greatly benefit/need them (6r2 Corvus, Ghost, Sentinel, 5/65 Claire, Sparkles, Colossus etc), but a lot of the champs I use daily are harmed by Suicides (Void, Sunspot, Ant-Man, Sym, Mister Fantastic, Punisher 2099, etc), so I usually keep them off during the first half of the month while I do UC through Master EQ, then turn them back on the second half so I can grind arena and AQ faster. Lately, however, I’ve just been keeping them off since I like to have the full breadth of my roster available to me at all times without having to spend a bunch of units to use them practically

StevieManWonder

BTW, I have all content except for Variant 1 and LoL 100% completed

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gage201205

I personally never have because it's restrictions toward AW defense.. but yeah if running Act 6 or Abyss or larger content in future is probably worth it 60% towards attack plus 30% boost and 20% attack boost is huge. Until they find a way to turn them off effectively without wasting units it's not worth it. Most YouTubers run arena which suicides boost scores so that's why they also run them.

AdixRaj

I run full suicides with recoil maxed , never switch them off and I haven’t used a potion in aq or event quests ever

Moosetiptronic

I'm only cav and v4 100%. But I use them all the time. Main Omega, corvus, Morningstar, Medusa and sentinel, who are all friendly to a degree.

My 4/55 1/25 support team for them, variously, don't completely suck with suicides; quake, mephisto, bishop, she hulk, collosus..

Next 5/65 will be she hulk or quake (plus Hyperion) and the latter 2 aren't that suicide friendly. Although, she hulk, Hyperion (and Medusa) are all poison immune and in long fights can get by by saving to sp3 to avoid recoil damage or if you are spamming sp1, it's often because it's a one off fight.

The ones that are making me reconsider are collosus, sabertooth, g2099 and torch (all 4/55).

But as Omega is sig 200 and can auto fight all of masters, including bosses (bar robots and bpcw), with quake and Nick synergy, that alone is making me think I'll keep them on for a long time...

Love @hungryhungrybbq post, reinforced my view, although @StevieManWonder is proper end game (as are seatin and the GOAT, Swedeah) and don't use suicides. Properly hard decision!

Lvernon15

I only run half suicides I don’t use poison only double edge x3 I find it better than running full suicides but that’s just me

I’ve never been a fan of half suicides personally, the majority of the drawback is recoil, and with half suicides you’re getting half the benefit for far more than half of the negative

Capn_Dante

Did an initial act 6 completion, 100% all variants and initial run on the abyss

I've run full suicides for everything but the abyss... Have though about turning them off but can't imagine arena/aq without them... I also max coagulate and willpower which makes fights with non friendly champs more manageable

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hungryhungrybbq

I run them full time. Firstly, having maxed WP and coagulate is reccomended. Here's the way it works for me. My work horse champs or main lane clearing champs are all suicide friendly. Corvus, Omega, Ghost, Quake, CV, Aegon, etc. are all what I'd call work horse champs. They can be used to quickly clear a majority of fights. Just choose whichever out of that list suits the path best. Then, you can fill in the rest of your team with champs for specific encounters. If there are some encounters that your work horse champs are not suited for. Even if specialist champs you bring are not entirely suicide friendly, you only need them for a handful of encounters. The recoil won't be a deal breaker.

Now, if you attempt to clear an entire lane with non-friendly champs, you'll need to drop some potions probably. Make sense? So, if there is an entire lane that none of your friendly champs will work for, thats when you do a cost/benefit analysis to decide what is cheaper. Spend around 80 units to respec or use a few items to compensate for the recoil, etc. There were certainly a few paths in act 6 exploration where it was way cheaper to respec for 80 units, but it wasn't actually that many.

The other factor to consider is that ending a fight 60% faster in itself can save you health, not the other way around. One could argue that the longer you are in the fight, the more opportunity you have to make a mistake. And everyone makes mistakes. So clearing the fight faster can save you a KO or huge loss of health especially against an oppenent with high attack. Speaking of high attack, suicides can also save you chip damage from blocking. The extra chip damage taken in a fight that lasts 60% longer can easily rival the damage taken from recoil or the dot (if even applicable). In medium length encounters you will often finish with an sp2 so recoil would only be applicable in longer fights. I think one of the things those who are worried about recoil are missing is that with 60% more damage you are not relying on multiple specials for your damage now:)

You can even argue it's a QOL decision to run them. You are clearing all your fights 60% faster. Which means you can log in an accomplish what you want to accomplish 60% faster. For me, in AQ specifically, suicides *saves* me items. With many of the nodes found there, the longer the fight goes on, the more trouble they can become. Ending the fight quickly is a great counter for many nodes:) Aon, degen..etc. The defender cannot use sp3 or degen you if they are dead:)
Very informative post, making me consider making the switch 👌

Thanks for the positive feedback! Sorry for such a long read:)

hungryhungrybbq

I'm only cav and v4 100%. But I use them all the time. Main Omega, corvus, Morningstar, Medusa and sentinel, who are all friendly to a degree.

My 4/55 1/25 support team for them, variously, don't completely suck with suicides; quake, mephisto, bishop, she hulk, collosus..

Next 5/65 will be she hulk or quake (plus Hyperion) and the latter 2 aren't that suicide friendly. Although, she hulk, Hyperion (and Medusa) are all poison immune and in long fights can get by by saving to sp3 to avoid recoil damage or if you are spamming sp1, it's often because it's a one off fight.

The ones that are making me reconsider are collosus, sabertooth, g2099 and torch (all 4/55).

But as Omega is sig 200 and can auto fight all of masters, including bosses (bar robots and bpcw), with quake and Nick synergy, that alone is making me think I'll keep them on for a long time...

Love @hungryhungrybbq post, reinforced my view, although @StevieManWonder is proper end game (as are seatin and the GOAT, Swedeah) and don't use suicides. Properly hard decision!

Thanks!