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War Matchmaking is busted

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Comments

  • xNigxNig Posts: 7,245 ★★★★★
    walkerdog said:

    I guess I just figured out - the only way kabam could make war "fair" would be something like 4* wars, or wars where everyone is matched based on the defense they place. The downside is that this makes higher rarity champs less useful, and seems like it'd be counterproductive to pushing advancement.

    That said, it wouldn't be terrible to have some 4* wars in an offseason or 1-2 a season I guess. Basically the current system is fair. If you want to be eligible for my rewards, and me for yours, we have to be able to beat each other. If I can't take you, you deserve the rewards, even if it's because you filled the map with 6* sig 200 R3s - if I'm not good enough to overcome that, it's on me.

    If you want more fair (in terms of each war) matchmaking, then petition kabam for another bracket that pays less rewards too, where you can be matched by PI or something.

    Then this takes “roster” out of the equation when deciding alliance war abilities, which is counter productive to Kabam’s business.
  • PlinkoPlinko Posts: 173 ★★
    edited September 2020
    xNig said:

    walkerdog said:

    I guess I just figured out - the only way kabam could make war "fair" would be something like 4* wars, or wars where everyone is matched based on the defense they place. The downside is that this makes higher rarity champs less useful, and seems like it'd be counterproductive to pushing advancement.

    That said, it wouldn't be terrible to have some 4* wars in an offseason or 1-2 a season I guess. Basically the current system is fair. If you want to be eligible for my rewards, and me for yours, we have to be able to beat each other. If I can't take you, you deserve the rewards, even if it's because you filled the map with 6* sig 200 R3s - if I'm not good enough to overcome that, it's on me.

    If you want more fair (in terms of each war) matchmaking, then petition kabam for another bracket that pays less rewards too, where you can be matched by PI or something.

    Then this takes “roster” out of the equation when deciding alliance war abilities, which is counter productive to Kabam’s business.
    Agreed. What would be the point in the rewards if progression just puts you against tougher teams with more abilities? Who would want to rank up champs and grow if you’ll just rank below a team of 3s without ever facing them? The entire point of the game is to grow your roster and get better.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    Lormif said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Lormif said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Shamir51 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Lormif said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Lormif said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Lormif said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Lormif said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    I'm not going over it and over it. We all know how War works. I'm not pretending a mismatch isn't a thing. The fact that people justify taking advantage of weaker Alliances and use skill in the same breath is really telling. That's what this has encouraged. In any event, the argument is futile. We know full well the Champs you place in Defense are what the opposing Alliance has to come up against.

    you cannot answer it. This is like a salary cap, it evens everything out. Alliance rating shows nothing but massive amount of champions that are never used for war, which is why it is terrible to take into consideration.
    You're not that naive. These Matches aren't just because the Rating is different but the Defense is the same. These Posts are because the variation in both sides is so extreme that people can't compete reasonably.
    Oh so now it is not about the ratings? what stops 300k rated player from having the exact same 8 rank 5 5* as a 1.5m rated player?
    These people are still trying to grow and come up. They're not playing multiple Accounts and selling their Champs along the way. They're not riding the Leaderboard on as many fronts as they can. Honestly, some people reach a certain point, and they think they can speak for everyone else's skill and points of growth because they have a main that's killing everything, some minis that are optimized with their own current skill and knowledge level, and they have all the answers.
    What stops them, answer the question, dont deflect.
    Natural progression. That's what.
    what progression prevents you from getting the exact same 8 champs as someone who has 1.5m rating?
    People don't just start the game out and go from
    0 to 300k with 8 Max 5*s. Not unless they're not new. Natural progression.
    You’re right- it’s incredibly hard to get 5* these days as opposed to, say 2 years ago?

    I mean it’s not like all anyone has to do is log on for 87 days and they’ll have a 5* whether they’ve completed act 1 or not.
    He said 300k Rating, with 8 MAXED 5*s. That doesn't just happen. Someone who is a Vet with a main and some alts is not a representation of what we're talking about. They're not starting out, or trying to grow and develop in the same way. That person is a more skilled person, running multiple Accounts.
    what do you mean that just does not happen? particularly when you can delete your 4*s and below to artificially lower your rating? The answer to my question btw is nothing but luck. You can have 300k and have the best 8 war champions in the game, or you can have a 1.5m rating and have none of the best 8, because of your luck. And alliance rating cannot measure luck.
    It doesn't. I've worked with people starting out since my third month playing. I know how fast people grow. I know the Alliance requirements for higher Rewards to Rank. It just doesn't happen unless they're not new.
    ooo YOU know, I guess everyone follows your level of progression, no major variances at all. It is great thaat you seem to be all knowing. You know how people progress, you know what alliances are small and weak and what are small and strong.
    If you can reasonably argue that someone can go from 0 to 300k with 8 Maxed 5*s, after just picking the game up, then it's clear there's no logic to reason with.
  • ABOMBABOMB Posts: 564 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Lormif said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Lormif said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    I'm not going over it and over it. We all know how War works. I'm not pretending a mismatch isn't a thing. The fact that people justify taking advantage of weaker Alliances and use skill in the same breath is really telling. That's what this has encouraged. In any event, the argument is futile. We know full well the Champs you place in Defense are what the opposing Alliance has to come up against.

    you cannot answer it. This is like a salary cap, it evens everything out. Alliance rating shows nothing but massive amount of champions that are never used for war, which is why it is terrible to take into consideration.
    You're not that naive. These Matches aren't just because the Rating is different but the Defense is the same. These Posts are because the variation in both sides is so extreme that people can't compete reasonably.
    Oh so now it is not about the ratings? what stops 300k rated player from having the exact same 8 rank 5 5* as a 1.5m rated player?
    These people are still trying to grow and come up. They're not playing multiple Accounts and selling their Champs along the way. They're not riding the Leaderboard on as many fronts as they can. Honestly, some people reach a certain point, and they think they can speak for everyone else's skill and points of growth because they have a main that's killing everything, some minis that are optimized with their own current skill and knowledge level, and they have all the answers.
    Well said! 100% accurate!
  • ABOMBABOMB Posts: 564 ★★★
    TheTalents said:

    ABOMB said:

    I never said that..
    I'm just trying to prove a point that to small allys that are still developing better skill, prestige matters in war. They should not be facing allys with 3K more prestige.
    But to many who think skill is the end all..its clearly not because nobody wants to put their money where their mouth is cuz they know they would be proven wrong.

    The people that play higher wars have more skill. Just because someone spends on the game doesn't automatically mean they have no skill. Have you tried to join a high level alliance? Most of the guys you're talking about don't even play map 7 and map 7 is a cake walk for players that are gold 1 and above majority of the time.
    I agree..were still playing maps 3,4, and 5 in our ally. The skill is not there yet to be overcoming such ridiculous prestige variations like 4 wars in a row of the other team having 3K more prestige than us. (One of them was only like 2K but still).
    Its not even about the rewards, atleast for me..I just find it joyful to compete as a team and feel like we accomplished something when we win..its cool. Dont even want to know what map 7 is like yet lol. Thanks for the post man!
  • ABOMBABOMB Posts: 564 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    ABOMB said:

    Lormif said:

    ABOMB said:

    Lormif said:

    ABOMB said:

    Lormif said:

    ABOMB said:

    Lormif said:

    ABOMB said:

    Also all of those here that keep posting how skill is the be all end all and that prestige doesn't matter..
    I challenge you to an incursion run with me in a mid sector and all you can use are 1* champs..and ill use 5* champs so we can compare.
    Because as many of you are clearly not objectively looking at this issue from any other perspective but "skill"..put your money where your mouth is!!

    I will film it and put on my channel for all to see!
    Should be fun!

    After were finished you can try and back pedal your skill argument..

    I challenge you to show me a developing alliance using all 1* champions for all their wars. When you can do that I will take you up on your challenge. You can do an reductio ad absurdum all you want, it wont get you far.
    But its about skill I thought, so prove it..
    nothing to prove, no one is talking about using 1*s but you.
    I'm giving you a chance to prove your skill argument over my prestige argument.
    Don't be scared lets rock, use 2 or 3* champs then..
    Bet I still get an excuse outra you..you've been called bro
    Again when you show me an alliance using only those for wars in development.
    Lol, u got nuthin. Won't even take my offer to prove your point..why..because you know I'm right.
    if you had a point you would be able to show me those alliances.
    ??? Challenge stands unanswered bro..
    Easy to flap gums and be a forum tuff guy but not so easy when asked to put the proof to paper ain't it.Lmao
    🤣🤣
    like I said, when you stop flapping your gums, and can show me an alliance doing that then I will, but you cannot backup your challenge.
    You are full of it bro..challenge is unanswered because you KNOW the results will not back your argument.
    Skill is the only thing that matters according to you so let's roll..lets incursion and prove who is right.....

    I know your too scared and will keep making excuses.🤣
  • xNigxNig Posts: 7,245 ★★★★★
    Ebony_Naw said:

    xNig said:

    walkerdog said:

    I guess I just figured out - the only way kabam could make war "fair" would be something like 4* wars, or wars where everyone is matched based on the defense they place. The downside is that this makes higher rarity champs less useful, and seems like it'd be counterproductive to pushing advancement.

    That said, it wouldn't be terrible to have some 4* wars in an offseason or 1-2 a season I guess. Basically the current system is fair. If you want to be eligible for my rewards, and me for yours, we have to be able to beat each other. If I can't take you, you deserve the rewards, even if it's because you filled the map with 6* sig 200 R3s - if I'm not good enough to overcome that, it's on me.

    If you want more fair (in terms of each war) matchmaking, then petition kabam for another bracket that pays less rewards too, where you can be matched by PI or something.

    Then this takes “roster” out of the equation when deciding alliance war abilities, which is counter productive to Kabam’s business.

    You mean having a lower league, or the 4* idea?
    4* idea.

    The lower league will just cause more unrest because those relegated to the lower league will find rewards insufficient, and those on the border between the leagues will find it ridiculous (since the cutoffs will definitely have to be arbitrarily set).
  • The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Posts: 7,781 ★★★★★
    Imo, AW needs a complete rework.
    Maybe if we actually get bases...
  • ABOMBABOMB Posts: 564 ★★★
    I don't care about your skill..and that's why the challenge must be done with 3* champs..to simulate how it feels to be lesser skilled facing much higher prestige opponents. And I'm talking a mid sector too not 6 or 7.
    There is absolutely in no way any form of (reasonable) to say that less skilled players facing allys with much much higher prestige is fair.
  • danielmathdanielmath Posts: 4,044 ★★★★★
    Prestige isn’t a big skill measure, brian grant is almost 3k below our highest prestige and he’s pretty good
  • Little_Crocodili29Little_Crocodili29 Posts: 267 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    ABOMB said:

    Also all of those here that keep posting how skill is the be all end all and that prestige doesn't matter..
    I challenge you to an incursion run with me in a mid sector and all you can use are 1* champs..and ill use 5* champs so we can compare.
    Because as many of you are clearly not objectively looking at this issue from any other perspective but "skill"..put your money where your mouth is!!

    I will film it and put on my channel for all to see!
    Should be fun!

    After were finished you can try and back pedal your skill argument..

    I challenge you to show me a developing alliance using all 1* champions for all their wars. When you can do that I will take you up on your challenge. You can do an reductio ad absurdum all you want, it wont get you far.

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    This conversation is getting nowhere. People will argue until the cows come home that it's not a problem. To them, these Matches are a necessary and enjoyable part of this system because "Git gud.". The only thing that matters to them is seeing weaker Alliances fail, and there's no sense in going ad hominum because that just takes the conversation to an inappropriate level and for some, that's the goal. Shut it down, sweep it under the rug, brush it off, or else someone might take it seriously. Not everyone discussing it, of course. Just some. Regardless, it IS a problem, and not everyone is swayed to trade those cows for Magic Beans. I've rarely seen such lengths to glaze something over, and I live in The Capital of my country. So I've seen some politics. Maybe it's ego-driven, maybe it's holding on to the way things operated before the Season was a part of the game, maybe it's mal intent to maintain status quo, maybe it's genuine confusion. All I know is this hasn't gone unnoticed. It won't go unnoticed with those of us that are seeing it, and no amount of existential debating is going to change the fact that fair is fair. If people want to support a system that takes advantage of earlier Players for the sake of Rewards, that's theirs to deal with. I for one do not enjoy playing a game mode that has no protection for people to be matched with appropriate levels of strength and skill, and I certainly don't call it a Win when the opponent doesn't stand a chance because our Champs are well beyond their capabilities. People are losing the will to even bother because the system is placing them in Matches that are NOT appropriate to where they're at, and no amount of arguing that War Rating is gospel will make that justifiable.
  • Shamir51Shamir51 Posts: 849 ★★★★
    danielmath said:

    Prestige isn’t a big skill measure, brian grant is almost 3k below our highest prestige and he’s pretty good

    This! I’ve said this multiple times on this thread only for people to conveniently ignore it.

    Quite a few people are guilty of working under the impression that a big hero rating and high prestige is the only indicator of skill. Apparently you can’t be skilled at lower hero ratings or lower prestige 🤷‍♂️
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Lormif said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Lormif said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Shamir51 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Lormif said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Lormif said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Lormif said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Lormif said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    I'm not going over it and over it. We all know how War works. I'm not pretending a mismatch isn't a thing. The fact that people justify taking advantage of weaker Alliances and use skill in the same breath is really telling. That's what this has encouraged. In any event, the argument is futile. We know full well the Champs you place in Defense are what the opposing Alliance has to come up against.

    you cannot answer it. This is like a salary cap, it evens everything out. Alliance rating shows nothing but massive amount of champions that are never used for war, which is why it is terrible to take into consideration.
    You're not that naive. These Matches aren't just because the Rating is different but the Defense is the same. These Posts are because the variation in both sides is so extreme that people can't compete reasonably.
    Oh so now it is not about the ratings? what stops 300k rated player from having the exact same 8 rank 5 5* as a 1.5m rated player?
    These people are still trying to grow and come up. They're not playing multiple Accounts and selling their Champs along the way. They're not riding the Leaderboard on as many fronts as they can. Honestly, some people reach a certain point, and they think they can speak for everyone else's skill and points of growth because they have a main that's killing everything, some minis that are optimized with their own current skill and knowledge level, and they have all the answers.
    What stops them, answer the question, dont deflect.
    Natural progression. That's what.
    what progression prevents you from getting the exact same 8 champs as someone who has 1.5m rating?
    People don't just start the game out and go from
    0 to 300k with 8 Max 5*s. Not unless they're not new. Natural progression.
    You’re right- it’s incredibly hard to get 5* these days as opposed to, say 2 years ago?

    I mean it’s not like all anyone has to do is log on for 87 days and they’ll have a 5* whether they’ve completed act 1 or not.
    He said 300k Rating, with 8 MAXED 5*s. That doesn't just happen. Someone who is a Vet with a main and some alts is not a representation of what we're talking about. They're not starting out, or trying to grow and develop in the same way. That person is a more skilled person, running multiple Accounts.
    what do you mean that just does not happen? particularly when you can delete your 4*s and below to artificially lower your rating? The answer to my question btw is nothing but luck. You can have 300k and have the best 8 war champions in the game, or you can have a 1.5m rating and have none of the best 8, because of your luck. And alliance rating cannot measure luck.
    It doesn't. I've worked with people starting out since my third month playing. I know how fast people grow. I know the Alliance requirements for higher Rewards to Rank. It just doesn't happen unless they're not new.
    ooo YOU know, I guess everyone follows your level of progression, no major variances at all. It is great thaat you seem to be all knowing. You know how people progress, you know what alliances are small and weak and what are small and strong.
    If you can reasonably argue that someone can go from 0 to 300k with 8 Maxed 5*s, after just picking the game up, then it's clear there's no logic to reason with.
    So you are saying it is impossible? you do realize there is a massive differnce between impossible and improbable, right, you seem to confuse the 2 way to often.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    This conversation is getting nowhere. People will argue until the cows come home that it's not a problem. To them, these Matches are a necessary and enjoyable part of this system because "Git gud.". The only thing that matters to them is seeing weaker Alliances fail, and there's no sense in going ad hominum because that just takes the conversation to an inappropriate level and for some, that's the goal. Shut it down, sweep it under the rug, brush it off, or else someone might take it seriously. Not everyone discussing it, of course. Just some. Regardless, it IS a problem, and not everyone is swayed to trade those cows for Magic Beans. I've rarely seen such lengths to glaze something over, and I live in The Capital of my country. So I've seen some politics. Maybe it's ego-driven, maybe it's holding on to the way things operated before the Season was a part of the game, maybe it's mal intent to maintain status quo, maybe it's genuine confusion. All I know is this hasn't gone unnoticed. It won't go unnoticed with those of us that are seeing it, and no amount of existential debating is going to change the fact that fair is fair. If people want to support a system that takes advantage of earlier Players for the sake of Rewards, that's theirs to deal with. I for one do not enjoy playing a game mode that has no protection for people to be matched with appropriate levels of strength and skill, and I certainly don't call it a Win when the opponent doesn't stand a chance because our Champs are well beyond their capabilities. People are losing the will to even bother because the system is placing them in Matches that are NOT appropriate to where they're at, and no amount of arguing that War Rating is gospel will make that justifiable.

    and you will argue until the cows come home there is a problem, without actually being able to detail what the problem is in the match. And nothing will change the fact that fair is relative.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    ABOMB said:

    Lormif said:

    ABOMB said:

    Lormif said:

    ABOMB said:

    Lormif said:

    ABOMB said:

    Lormif said:

    ABOMB said:

    Lormif said:

    ABOMB said:

    Also all of those here that keep posting how skill is the be all end all and that prestige doesn't matter..
    I challenge you to an incursion run with me in a mid sector and all you can use are 1* champs..and ill use 5* champs so we can compare.
    Because as many of you are clearly not objectively looking at this issue from any other perspective but "skill"..put your money where your mouth is!!

    I will film it and put on my channel for all to see!
    Should be fun!

    After were finished you can try and back pedal your skill argument..

    I challenge you to show me a developing alliance using all 1* champions for all their wars. When you can do that I will take you up on your challenge. You can do an reductio ad absurdum all you want, it wont get you far.
    But its about skill I thought, so prove it..
    nothing to prove, no one is talking about using 1*s but you.
    I'm giving you a chance to prove your skill argument over my prestige argument.
    Don't be scared lets rock, use 2 or 3* champs then..
    Bet I still get an excuse outra you..you've been called bro
    Again when you show me an alliance using only those for wars in development.
    Lol, u got nuthin. Won't even take my offer to prove your point..why..because you know I'm right.
    if you had a point you would be able to show me those alliances.
    ??? Challenge stands unanswered bro..
    Easy to flap gums and be a forum tuff guy but not so easy when asked to put the proof to paper ain't it.Lmao
    🤣🤣
    like I said, when you stop flapping your gums, and can show me an alliance doing that then I will, but you cannot backup your challenge.
    You are full of it bro..challenge is unanswered because you KNOW the results will not back your argument.
    Skill is the only thing that matters according to you so let's roll..lets incursion and prove who is right.....

    I know your too scared and will keep making excuses.🤣
    Lol, look, insulting me will never work, ad hominems and other fallacies seem to be your bag because you cannot argue a reasoned point. When you can show me that what you are claiming is actually being used then ill do it, until then it is just your way to distract from the argument.
  • -sixate--sixate- Posts: 1,532 ★★★★★
    Imo, the new system is working. We saw harder matches than normal toward the end of the season. Won more than we lost. We run 1bg wars and finished G2 the last 2 season. But was a struggle this season. Tier 3 wars for my alliance are difficult. A lot of hard nodes and champ combinations and not everyone has perfect counters. Tier 4/5 is our sweet spot and rarely lose there. Once in tier 3 we face stronger alliances who will clear the map no matter what. And we aren't willing to do that, and there's nothing wrong with that. That is how the system should work.

    The issue is small alliances think they deserve Plat and higher rewards for facing small alliances. This was happening in a broken system. Now we are all being properly placed in the correct tier for our alliance's competitive nature/roster. And there are a lot of strong alliances with deep rosters who are very capable. You can't beat them all.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    ThunderGod said:

    Lormif said:

    HI_guys said:

    Lormif said:

    ABOMB said:

    There is no reasoning with you ^, go unbunch them huggies and take a breath bra 🤣

    all you got are ad hominems, that is the reason yu cannot reason with people, logical fallacies typically does not equate to reasoning. I am still waiting to here why you cannot beat a r3 6* with a r4 5*....
    Tbf its possible for a figure to be impossible even work r5 5*s depending on the nudes
    its not impossible, it is a matter of capability and in rare cases roster, but if you have roster issues in your alliance you should not be assigning lanes, but determining who takes what lane after you see the defenders, because there is no defender that a p1 alliance can place that a s1 cannot also place
    Lol no difference between a p1 alliance def and s1?
    I don't know wether you've played war or not, but champion stats are the most important thing after matchup in order to win a fight.
    In matchups where you can't stun them, or have to block to deal damage, stats are definitely most imp.

    This is in case of a wild matchup between 2 alliances.
    Arguing that even a 4* can take out 5/65s, and 6s is so not true.
    Nodes & Tactics force you to take stats.
    It's not skill, it's having the best possible matchup.
    You put a r3 Corvus on the map to attack, nothing is going to stand there with boosts and what not (paywall, haven't even talked about that)

    I don't know what this thread is about lol, but saying that war is always about skill even in wild matchups is insane.
    I am not sure you are capable or understanding or not.
    I didnt say there would be a difference or not, I stated that there is no defender that a p1 and an s1 cannot have, because that is all a matter of luck. Not to mention you dont know if that s1 is a new growth alliance or an old retirement alliance. I am taking in all the possibilities, you are ignoring all the possibilities.

    What is functionally the difference that prevents you from doing it, give me specifics of why a 4* cannot take out a 5* rank 5 or a 6*, when a 4* rank 5 is equivalent to a 5* rank 3-4.
  • Mr_PlatypusMr_Platypus Posts: 2,779 ★★★★★
    TheTalents said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    This conversation is getting nowhere. People will argue until the cows come home that it's not a problem. To them, these Matches are a necessary and enjoyable part of this system because "Git gud.". The only thing that matters to them is seeing weaker Alliances fail, and there's no sense in going ad hominum because that just takes the conversation to an inappropriate level and for some, that's the goal. Shut it down, sweep it under the rug, brush it off, or else someone might take it seriously. Not everyone discussing it, of course. Just some. Regardless, it IS a problem, and not everyone is swayed to trade those cows for Magic Beans. I've rarely seen such lengths to glaze something over, and I live in The Capital of my country. So I've seen some politics. Maybe it's ego-driven, maybe it's holding on to the way things operated before the Season was a part of the game, maybe it's mal intent to maintain status quo, maybe it's genuine confusion. All I know is this hasn't gone unnoticed. It won't go unnoticed with those of us that are seeing it, and no amount of existential debating is going to change the fact that fair is fair. If people want to support a system that takes advantage of earlier Players for the sake of Rewards, that's theirs to deal with. I for one do not enjoy playing a game mode that has no protection for people to be matched with appropriate levels of strength and skill, and I certainly don't call it a Win when the opponent doesn't stand a chance because our Champs are well beyond their capabilities. People are losing the will to even bother because the system is placing them in Matches that are NOT appropriate to where they're at, and no amount of arguing that War Rating is gospel will make that justifiable.

    You do realize the people that are beating up weaker alliances eventually run into alliances that are much stronger than them as well? It is balanced.

    If you're a 30 mill alliance beating up on 15 mill silver alliances eventually your multiplier will improve and you'll run into an alliance at 48 mill with 11k prestige. So it works both ways. Trust me when I say anybody in plat 2 and above are highly skilled so we're not talking about them. To completely ignore how low the health pools are that you're fighting with r5 champions on the lower levels too is ridiculous, your whole argument is false and frankly really weak at this point.
    And just to prove your point, all fights along the paths have 70-100k hp in tier 6 and 7, and those are 5* R5 defenders. It’s a trivial amount at those tiers, must be nothing at lower tiers.
    Don’t remember the miniboss health pools but I do remember beating a maxed 5* doom miniboss in 17 hits with no boosts.
This discussion has been closed.