Throne Breaker Title Discussion [Merged Threads]

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  • KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 4,949 ★★★★★
    edited September 2020

    To be really clear here (and let the dislikes pour in), this is meant to be a differentiating factor between players in the Cavalier progression level, and those that are far advanced from there.

    As you guys are well aware, there is a huge breadth of players that have hit Cavalier status, from those that have beaten Act 6 Chapter 1 just once, to those that have explored Abyss of Legends, and take on the Grandmaster and Champion bosses daily just for fun.

    It becomes extremely difficult for us to make content that targets everybody in that group when one end is so far ahead of the other. As we moved away from making Act content our measuring stick for Summoner Roster and Skill Progression, we had to move to other measurements. Having 1x Rank 3 6-Star is quite low on the scale of differentiation since many of these Summoners have quite a lot more.

    If you haven't hit that point yet, that's okay. There's still a lot for you to benefit from as a Cavalier, and those benefits will help you as you progress and grow towards the next level.

    Why did you have to add the "1x Rank 3 6-Star" in though? That is a VERY poor move by Kabam as only the top 3% of players have r3 6 stars

    Also, you said "Having 1x Rank 3 6-Star is quite low on the scale of differentiation since many of these Summoners have quite a lot more."

    Are we playing the same game? To get more than 1 r3 6* star you have to be in a top, top alliance, whale out big time, or have 100% all content in the game and got good RNG.

    Terrible move. You really should consider removing the r3 6 star requirement.

    You don’t have to be in a top alliance. This is one of the dumbest statements I have ever seen. I have a rank 3 and I’m in a gold 4 alliance
    Are you a modder or something? Because gold 4 alliances don't exist in MCOC. Idk what game you're playing but there is no such thing as a gold 4 alliance in MCOC.
  • DarkSoulDLXDarkSoulDLX Posts: 676 ★★★
    edited September 2020
    Should we a be expecting a new difficulty especially when acknowledging the failure of the launch of Caviler difficulty? @Kabam Miike

    Never?
    Yes!

    Caviler difficulty was widely perceived as a failure is that why you rushed down the pathway of a new title?
  • GmonkeyGmonkey Posts: 1,449 ★★★★
    edited September 2020
    Jestress said:

    HI_guys said:

    To be really clear here (and let the dislikes pour in), this is meant to be a differentiating factor between players in the Cavalier progression level, and those that are far advanced from there.

    As you guys are well aware, there is a huge breadth of players that have hit Cavalier status, from those that have beaten Act 6 Chapter 1 just once, to those that have explored Abyss of Legends, and take on the Grandmaster and Champion bosses daily just for fun.

    It becomes extremely difficult for us to make content that targets everybody in that group when one end is so far ahead of the other. As we moved away from making Act content our measuring stick for Summoner Roster and Skill Progression, we had to move to other measurements. Having 1x Rank 3 6-Star is quite low on the scale of differentiation since many of these Summoners have quite a lot more.

    If you haven't hit that point yet, that's okay. There's still a lot for you to benefit from as a Cavalier, and those benefits will help you as you progress and grow towards the next level.

    I’ve completed Act 6. I can 100% Cavalier difficulty. I’m no where near a R3 because RNG won’t go my way. If you plan on making t5cc truly available to where I don’t have to 100% Act or complete an AOL path just to know you’ll have a full one, then this is ok. However if you’re just going to keep giving 20% a month and in that 20% you’re giving 2% crystals that FURTHER make it an RNG dependent title, then it’s a load of BS.
    There's a pretty great special Nexus Crystal and T5CC in the Abyss Rewards.

    Before somebody else posts it, let me: "Don't have an R3? Kabam Miike just said beat Abyss to get this, like that's easy!"

    The Abyss of Legends is an option but it's not the only way. And to be frank, this title is more aimed at those that can 100% Abyss of Legends. We just chose to make it easier than that for those that choose alternate ways to progress their Rosters.

    If we hadn't shifted the philosophy for where to put this, you would have gotten it probably after Chapter 2 of Book 2 Act 1. This would have been aimed at Summoners with teams of Rank 3 Champions.

    You have time. You don't have to do this today, or even right when this comes out. Use your Cavalier Benefits to help you progress our team.

    EDIT: I had mistakenly said there's a T5CC Selector in the Abyss Rewards.
    The edit shows how aware you are of the game and progression. So stop defending the 6* r3 restriction
    Hey man, I've got to keep info on every part of the game in my head. I will definitely make mistakes, and I am going to double down on defending this requirement because this is much lower than originally intended when it was just based on Act Progression.
    I don't get it. Why didn't you just leave it till Act 7 chapter 2. You keep bringing that up, again and again, defending this decision by saying that you were being generous by doing it now rather than in Act 7 chapter 2. I'd much rather have had this in Act 7 chapter 2 where it is progression based, not rank up based. You should get titles by completing challenging content, not making rank ups based on RNG.
    We made a pretty fundamental shift in the way in which we're treating Act Content. It's not longer just meant to be harder and harder, and a hard check on your Roster (check out Beta Footage of the new Act Content, versus the one that came out earlier this Summer before we went back to the drawing board).

    It's not a progression point the way that Act 5 or 6 was anymore, so we had to look for other ways to measure progress.
    So completing difficult content is no longer considered "progress?"

    Let's throw out a scenario here. Let's call it... 6.2. In 6.2 you introduced class and champion gates that greatly restricted a players ability to complete the content. You became Cavalier after you beat 6.2. Even you, Kabam, acknowledged that class and rarity gates were poorly designed. Now, you're granting players the opportunity to become a Throne Breaker by beating 6.4... and by having a 6* R3 champion.

    Please explain to me how we learned and evolved from 6.2?
    What do you consider difficult content? Cavalier was easy, variant 5 was easy. Even the beta was not difficult.

    They are now not continually upping difficulty, I played original beta and new beta most paths are much easier to complete. You can swap champs which is awesome. The old beta was awful missing one specific champs good luck completing. I used some rarely used champs which is nice.

    They are changing how players are measured to partially completion partially roster which is a better measure of where players are at. This is much better than 6.2 with ridiculously small gates of 1 or two counters in the entire game.
  • AceLuffySaboAceLuffySabo Posts: 280 ★★
    I've completed Act 6 but there is no way I'll have a R3 6* anytime soon.. probably another year or more considering my RNG with those catalyst fragments and 6* luck.

    Seriously though, why not have a bunch of 6* R2 instead of R3 for which you need resources that are so incredibly rare for most players. Hell, I'd be willing to rank up some 6* meme champs to R2 for jokes, but R3? Definitely not.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,673 ★★★★★
    HI_guys said:

    HI_guys said:

    HI_guys said:

    Odachi said:

    I know that there have been a few cases recently where a lot of public outburst has caused kabam to reverse their decisions but I have to ask please do NOT reverse this decision. I'm fairly sure this thread is just a lot of loud people saying the same time (rng yadayadayada) but I also think the loudest might not of even done 6.2.6 let alone the grandmaster as just like to complain.

    Yeah I'm really hoping they find their spine again on this one
    You act like responding and rectifying based on feedback is a bad thing
    No I'm acting like constantly caving to the loudest people just incentivizes more crying. It's like feeding a stray cat, they just keep coming back. The things people complain endlessly about now are absolutely ridiculous.
    But it's justified here no matter what you say. No amount of mental gymnastics can convince me that a person who got lucky or spend a lot of money is more worth for the title than the person with the skill to fcking explore act 6.
    Actually, I think the opposite is a larger concern. If people are getting through everything and not developing their Accounts properly, that worries me about many things.
    Developing the roster to do what?? Act 6 is the highest roster requirement you have in the game. An account that can explore act6 without going bankrupt is way more developed than someone with a r3 6*.

    You can't tell a person who has 100% all content that their roster isn't developed enough because of an arbitrary conditon set by someone.

    Why you ask?? Because they did everything. What are you suppose dot develop your roster for other than to do content. Even abyss is less roster intensive
    I see, so you think the game ends after Act 6? Ah, so what are we here discussing it for? There's no future, or content outside of Act 6, nothing to use Champs in, nothing coming in the future. No need to advance or Rank anything. Beat the game with a lesser Roster. Skill bypassed the whole system.
    *intense sarcasm*
  • OGAvengerOGAvenger Posts: 395 ★★★
    If Act 7 Ch. 1 drops pretty much the same as it was in the second beta then Act 6 100% is still easily the most difficult content in the game (sorry Abyss explorers).

    Keep throne breaker as the new progression title but keep it locked behind Act 6 100%. And if r3’s are something you’re wanting to keep apart of it then Act 6 100% should have a t5cc selector
  • MeebletonMeebleton Posts: 551 ★★★

    To be really clear here (and let the dislikes pour in), this is meant to be a differentiating factor between players in the Cavalier progression level, and those that are far advanced from there.

    As you guys are well aware, there is a huge breadth of players that have hit Cavalier status, from those that have beaten Act 6 Chapter 1 just once, to those that have explored Abyss of Legends, and take on the Grandmaster and Champion bosses daily just for fun.

    It becomes extremely difficult for us to make content that targets everybody in that group when one end is so far ahead of the other. As we moved away from making Act content our measuring stick for Summoner Roster and Skill Progression, we had to move to other measurements. Having 1x Rank 3 6-Star is quite low on the scale of differentiation since many of these Summoners have quite a lot more.

    If you haven't hit that point yet, that's okay. There's still a lot for you to benefit from as a Cavalier, and those benefits will help you as you progress and grow towards the next level.

    Why did you have to add the "1x Rank 3 6-Star" in though? That is a VERY poor move by Kabam as only the top 3% of players have r3 6 stars

    Also, you said "Having 1x Rank 3 6-Star is quite low on the scale of differentiation since many of these Summoners have quite a lot more."

    Are we playing the same game? To get more than 1 r3 6* star you have to be in a top, top alliance, whale out big time, or have 100% all content in the game and got good RNG.

    Terrible move. You really should consider removing the r3 6 star requirement.

    You don’t have to be in a top alliance. This is one of the dumbest statements I have ever seen. I have a rank 3 and I’m in a gold 4 alliance
    Gold 4 doesn't exist
  • BigManOnCampusBigManOnCampus Posts: 158
    edited September 2020
    Some youtubers like instigate , and make this seem like a real problem ..
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 11,069 ★★★★★

    Aziz5253 said:

    even so

    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Etjama said:

    Kappa2g said:

    I'm pretty sure you guys have the statistics, but how many players actually had a R3 6 star when they completed their first run of 6.4?
    The two milestone requirements simply do not match up or have any close relationship between them.

    They are meant to be separate. They are 2 fold here. We could have just made it get 1x Rank 3, but then somewhere down the line, people will get Rank 3s before they complete Act 6, and that doesn't hit both milestones.
    Honestly, if you guys want people to 100% Abyss before getting this title, do it. It just makes way more sense than involving RNG into titles.
    100% Abyss is still lower than we're aiming for, honestly. This title is aimed at people that probably already have teams of Rank 3 6-Stars, but we want to make it more accessible. Again, this was originally going to be for somewhere in the next Act, which would have been aimed at players with multiple Rank 3 Champions.
    So what I am I hearing is that this was planned to roll out in book 2 as part of long term plans and isn’t something you can put off. Being that you pushed back book 2 due to feedback you now need to get this into the game before upcoming events so future plans are not also disrupted.

    The progression requirements were meant to be much more restrictive but since the content to meet those requirements has been delayed you need to at least put in something similar?
    I suspect it might be less an issue of delay, and more an issue of structure. Act 6 and Book 2 were originally envisioned as traditional end game content in my opinion. They were designed under the idea that if most players can't do it, too bad. But as the philosophy has changed to be more like everyone should *eventually* be able to do it, and the difficulty and rewards should be more of a graceful step up from Uncollected to Cav to beyond within that content, the title made less sense to embed within Book 2, because Book 2 would not place as high of a progressional burden.

    At the risk of oversimplifying, I think Thronebreaker is intended to be an end game title (today, before future titles supplant it), but completing Act 6 and even Book 2 is no longer seen as only an end gamer's activity. So instead Kabam wanted to shift from a content-clearing title like Uncollected or Cav to something else that is more correlated with end game accomplishments, and rank 3 rank ups was the obvious next choice. But while content-clearing titles are pretty binary, either you did them or you didn't, rank ups are more hazy because different people rank up at different paces. Some players rank up quickly, some want to rank up more deliberately, and of course things like spending affect how much rank 3 resources a player might have independent of progress. So Kabam decided to ease off of "multiple rank 3s" as being the marker of an end game player for the purposes of the title, and require just one to make sure that the requirement wasn't so high that it cut off too many end game players from the title.
    Pretty much how I feel. With the severe reduction in story content difficulty, there's not really too many other ways they can segment off sections of the playerbase besides also including a measure of roster strength/size.

    I understand people not liking it but with the new direction in content design it's not surprising they also revisited title requirements
    So explain to me how someone who has barely completed Act 6 belongs in that group while someone who has explored everything doesn't.
    The likelihood of someone that has explored "everything" having zero R3 options is basically slim to none. Is it possible and are there probably a small number of people out there in that situation? Absolutely. It's not remotely going to be the norm or even slightly common
    It doesn't have to be everything, there are so many players with no R3 that have explored Act 6. Why should people that lack the skill or time to do so be rewarded because their luck is good while those who do have the skill and/or time don't get rewarded because they aren't lucky?
    They have to draw a line somewhere. An act 6 completion is barely much more tasking than getting cavalier now. The gap between the bottom of cavalier and the top is so massive its almost people playing different games.

    I wish the title would have been behind 100% act 6 AND a R3 personally. They've given a much more lenient requirement. The fact that so many people are upset just shows you how easy it is to get a completion run done now.
    Might I remind you that completing Act 6 and exploring is itself heavily Rng dependent as you need a lot of right Champs for it. Atleast setting the limit to completion is reasonable. I may partially disagree with the r3 thing but I feel they should instead set the limit to 5 r2s to make it more reasonable.
    This entire game is built around RNG. I cannot fathom how some of you continue to play the game but fail to accept this
    I couldn't agree more with this statement. There are people asking for the conditions to be 100% act 6 or abyss. If that were the case, we'd have people complaining about RNG of champions and they can't get the ones they need. If it's not one thing, it's another.

    There isn't anything Kabam will do that will satisfy the community.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 11,069 ★★★★★

    Even though I have a r3 6 star I think the requirement is unfair. I'm top 45 AQ and I still have about 6 members without r3 6 stars. I think that requirement needs to be removed unless you give out a full t5cc selector.

    Give out a selector for people who completed act act 6 100%.

    I thought you weren't bothered by it....😑
  • rischiorischio Posts: 74
    edited September 2020
    ValBr111 said:

    Actually hold on. In my first post I said the second requirement (if any), should be initial abyss completion. But honestly, if they're "Aiming this title at those who 100% abyss", MAKE IT THAT. Make it initial completion of act 6, and 100% Abyss. YOU CAN DO 100% ABYSS WITHOUT ANY 6 STARS AT ALL. You guys are trying to lock this title behind spending or extreme luck, and are doing a poor job defending it.

    Soooo wrong. You CANNOT 100% abyss without Ægon. So it is not only RNG based, it's SINGLE-character-duped-high-sig-based.

    Or 7 star unit man.
  • DarkEternityDarkEternity Posts: 367 ★★★
    rischio said:

    ValBr111 said:

    Actually hold on. In my first post I said the second requirement (if any), should be initial abyss completion. But honestly, if they're "Aiming this title at those who 100% abyss", MAKE IT THAT. Make it initial completion of act 6, and 100% Abyss. YOU CAN DO 100% ABYSS WITHOUT ANY 6 STARS AT ALL. You guys are trying to lock this title behind spending or extreme luck, and are doing a poor job defending it.

    Soooo wrong. You CANNOT 100% abyss without Ægon. So it is not only RNG based, it's SINGLE character, duped high sig based.

    Or 7 star unit man.
    I concur, I know of a few people who did it with Ghost and I know that Swedeah did it with She-Hulk.
  • EtjamaEtjama Posts: 6,952 ★★★★★
    edited September 2020
    rischio said:

    ValBr111 said:

    Actually hold on. In my first post I said the second requirement (if any), should be initial abyss completion. But honestly, if they're "Aiming this title at those who 100% abyss", MAKE IT THAT. Make it initial completion of act 6, and 100% Abyss. YOU CAN DO 100% ABYSS WITHOUT ANY 6 STARS AT ALL. You guys are trying to lock this title behind spending or extreme luck, and are doing a poor job defending it.

    Soooo wrong. You CANNOT 100% abyss without Ægon. So it is not only RNG based, it's SINGLE-character-duped-high-sig-based.

    Or 7 star unit man.
    Ægon's the cheapest route, not the only route. Tons of people have done Abyss without Ægon.
  • KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 4,949 ★★★★★
    Etjama said:

    Aziz5253 said:

    even so

    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Etjama said:

    Kappa2g said:

    I'm pretty sure you guys have the statistics, but how many players actually had a R3 6 star when they completed their first run of 6.4?
    The two milestone requirements simply do not match up or have any close relationship between them.

    They are meant to be separate. They are 2 fold here. We could have just made it get 1x Rank 3, but then somewhere down the line, people will get Rank 3s before they complete Act 6, and that doesn't hit both milestones.
    Honestly, if you guys want people to 100% Abyss before getting this title, do it. It just makes way more sense than involving RNG into titles.
    100% Abyss is still lower than we're aiming for, honestly. This title is aimed at people that probably already have teams of Rank 3 6-Stars, but we want to make it more accessible. Again, this was originally going to be for somewhere in the next Act, which would have been aimed at players with multiple Rank 3 Champions.
    So what I am I hearing is that this was planned to roll out in book 2 as part of long term plans and isn’t something you can put off. Being that you pushed back book 2 due to feedback you now need to get this into the game before upcoming events so future plans are not also disrupted.

    The progression requirements were meant to be much more restrictive but since the content to meet those requirements has been delayed you need to at least put in something similar?
    I suspect it might be less an issue of delay, and more an issue of structure. Act 6 and Book 2 were originally envisioned as traditional end game content in my opinion. They were designed under the idea that if most players can't do it, too bad. But as the philosophy has changed to be more like everyone should *eventually* be able to do it, and the difficulty and rewards should be more of a graceful step up from Uncollected to Cav to beyond within that content, the title made less sense to embed within Book 2, because Book 2 would not place as high of a progressional burden.

    At the risk of oversimplifying, I think Thronebreaker is intended to be an end game title (today, before future titles supplant it), but completing Act 6 and even Book 2 is no longer seen as only an end gamer's activity. So instead Kabam wanted to shift from a content-clearing title like Uncollected or Cav to something else that is more correlated with end game accomplishments, and rank 3 rank ups was the obvious next choice. But while content-clearing titles are pretty binary, either you did them or you didn't, rank ups are more hazy because different people rank up at different paces. Some players rank up quickly, some want to rank up more deliberately, and of course things like spending affect how much rank 3 resources a player might have independent of progress. So Kabam decided to ease off of "multiple rank 3s" as being the marker of an end game player for the purposes of the title, and require just one to make sure that the requirement wasn't so high that it cut off too many end game players from the title.
    Pretty much how I feel. With the severe reduction in story content difficulty, there's not really too many other ways they can segment off sections of the playerbase besides also including a measure of roster strength/size.

    I understand people not liking it but with the new direction in content design it's not surprising they also revisited title requirements
    So explain to me how someone who has barely completed Act 6 belongs in that group while someone who has explored everything doesn't.
    The likelihood of someone that has explored "everything" having zero R3 options is basically slim to none. Is it possible and are there probably a small number of people out there in that situation? Absolutely. It's not remotely going to be the norm or even slightly common
    It doesn't have to be everything, there are so many players with no R3 that have explored Act 6. Why should people that lack the skill or time to do so be rewarded because their luck is good while those who do have the skill and/or time don't get rewarded because they aren't lucky?
    They have to draw a line somewhere. An act 6 completion is barely much more tasking than getting cavalier now. The gap between the bottom of cavalier and the top is so massive its almost people playing different games.

    I wish the title would have been behind 100% act 6 AND a R3 personally. They've given a much more lenient requirement. The fact that so many people are upset just shows you how easy it is to get a completion run done now.
    Might I remind you that completing Act 6 and exploring is itself heavily Rng dependent as you need a lot of right Champs for it. Atleast setting the limit to completion is reasonable. I may partially disagree with the r3 thing but I feel they should instead set the limit to 5 r2s to make it more reasonable.
    This entire game is built around RNG. I cannot fathom how some of you continue to play the game but fail to accept this
    I couldn't agree more with this statement. There are people asking for the conditions to be 100% act 6 or abyss. If that were the case, we'd have people complaining about RNG of champions and they can't get the ones they need. If it's not one thing, it's another.

    There isn't anything Kabam will do that will satisfy the community.

    Even though I have a r3 6 star I think the requirement is unfair. I'm top 45 AQ and I still have about 6 members without r3 6 stars. I think that requirement needs to be removed unless you give out a full t5cc selector.

    Give out a selector for people who completed act act 6 100%.

    I thought you weren't bothered by it....😑
    Do you ever agree with the players?
    Do you need to ask? Him and GW are the exact same person, dude. Damien sides with Kabam most of the time from what I've seen. He still sees that this is extremely stupid
    Haha true, I should've known better
  • Jim0172Jim0172 Posts: 85
    I'm glad my R3 doom will be good for something other then just prestige now!
  • RU11011RU11011 Posts: 871 ★★★★
    Guess I'll have to save up for a R3 now... And beat the Grandmaster. And to think, I was feeling pretty epic with my shiny Cavalier title...
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