Devil of Hell's Kitchen Overhaul: Thoughts?

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  • Denslo500Denslo500 Posts: 714 ★★★
    For Attack, what do you guys think about Rupture.

    He is traditionally a blunt force attacker. In comics, he uses a Billy Club.
    He ought to be the Rupture King of the game.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 6,420 ★★★★★
    Chobbly said:

    Denslo500 said:

    @DrZola agree completely on the healing.
    They should cut out the regen on him completely.

    For Durability:
    Murdock's Boy- he is supposed to be a Boxer, so have him Glance hits like a boxer.
    Stick's Apprentice- ninja mode, so Evade Unblockables.

    This would also make Kabam happy, because he would be a tough defender.

    Thoughts?

    If there was ever a restructure of the kit on this level, that would be great. Switching between Glancing and Evasion would fit really well.

    Awesome idea, @Denslo500 :)
    I like that. Feels more like DD.

    Dr. Zola
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 4,046 ★★★★★
    Chobbly said:

    Denslo500 said:

    @DrZola agree completely on the healing.
    They should cut out the regen on him completely.

    For Durability:
    Murdock's Boy- he is supposed to be a Boxer, so have him Glance hits like a boxer.
    Stick's Apprentice- ninja mode, so Evade Unblockables.

    This would also make Kabam happy, because he would be a tough defender.

    Thoughts?

    If there was ever a restructure of the kit on this level, that would be great. Switching between Glancing and Evasion would fit really well.

    Awesome idea, @Denslo500 :)

    I like your ideas @Denslo500 , genuinely great.
    However, as @Chobbly mentioned, that would require a restructure of his kit on another level.
    At this point, I am willing to wait IF Kabam provide us data and give us an assessment of where this champion performs and underperforms in the contest.
    However, if they choose to remain silent, then I’m going to hold out for a numbers tune up, as I don’t see them taking this topic as seriously as we do.
  • Pdogg614Pdogg614 Posts: 78
    Hey guys love seeing the ddhk love here. I don’t run suicides and actually really still enjoy the buff got a max sig r5 and a sig 20 r1 6 star (duped after I maxed my 5 star)

    I ranked him early and do use him for fun, I would LOVE to see him get a tune up numbers wise, he is soooo close buff the fury and cruelty off heavy potency would go a long way. I don’t run suicides so the regen rate thing never bothered me but I understand he’s unplayable with em so be nice to fix that for all the folks who do want to play with suicides.

    I hope all this dosnt fall on def ears at kabam there is a fan upwelling and no way they don’t see it.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 4,046 ★★★★★
    Pdogg614 said:

    Hey guys love seeing the ddhk love here. I don’t run suicides and actually really still enjoy the buff got a max sig r5 and a sig 20 r1 6 star (duped after I maxed my 5 star)

    I ranked him early and do use him for fun, I would LOVE to see him get a tune up numbers wise, he is soooo close buff the fury and cruelty off heavy potency would go a long way. I don’t run suicides so the regen rate thing never bothered me but I understand he’s unplayable with em so be nice to fix that for all the folks who do want to play with suicides.

    I hope all this dosnt fall on def ears at kabam there is a fan upwelling and no way they don’t see it.

    I love this write up. I’m glad to see this space growing and it’s so encouraging to see that we all have the SAME idea about buff thoughts.
    Please @Kabam Miike , one community, one voice.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 4,046 ★★★★★
    You know what’s most amazing? None of us are giving up.
    That’s true DDHK spirit right there.
  • Pdogg614Pdogg614 Posts: 78
    edited December 2021
    Yea I so badly want a reason to take my 6 star to r3. I did test my 5 star full synergies with the new peni one(which I also have at r3) and it was great. I got good at popping back and forth from Murdock boy to sticks apprentice to keep the righteous passive up a good chunk of the fight(heavy at 24 combo is the key, first hit takes u out and second puts u back) With a tweak to his buff potency I think esp with that synergy he would be absolutly r3 worthy. Can’t justify the mats yet tho esp when I got a r5 max sig to play around with.

    Mole man kp and shehulk helps him huge too, one of the best things about him is he seems to slot into teams where I have all the champs already ranked and they are all great champs too no dead weight synergies ..well other than him :( haha

    He slots into that team of peni and mysterio well too as he also buffs mysterios poison duration by 2 sec.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    I love seeing everyone crash in the DDHK Lounge as it was named earlier in the thread!

    Still maintaining hope!

  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 4,046 ★★★★★

    He’s the perfect character for a small number change and regen change. Do it while there are no buffs this month! We deserve it for these past six months Kabam!

    @Kabam Miike the people have spoken.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 4,046 ★★★★★
    edited December 2021
    I can recognize when it’s been a hard year, and I can especially feel it within Kabam.

    2021 was a mess, I think we can all agree on that. The unity engine fiasco, untested variants, poor Cav EQ changes, grindy objectives, outdated rewards, skip SP3 bug, bugged champions, nerfed champions and the generic awakening gem issue (for some) are the main issues that come immediately to mind.

    For many of us, it has been enough to quit the game. For many others, it has led us to take a serious step back. Personally, I was surprised to see so many people join our alliance, completely retired from competitive playing.

    Having said that, it might be easy to see why I’m not excited for new things to come to the game.
    Strikers? I don’t really care.
    The new SQ? Haven’t looked at it or the rewards.
    New champs? Lol, we can barely even get them.

    If I wanted to find my excitement in this game, that fire or that passion that brought me to the game, then I would have to look no further than the buff program. 80% of what I look forward to in a month comes from the buff program.

    Now, I am not going to sit here and whine because Kabam haven’t given us January buffs. Personally speaking, it’s the most important time of the year, and family and friends should come before everything. However, in the New Year, Kabam, I implore you to take this avenue much more seriously.

    The list of buff ‘failures’ is growing. We started with DDHK, the capital of your failure with the buff program, and then moved on to Hood (1st buff), Ronin, Nova, Gamora, to an extent Maw, and most appallingly Guillotine.

    Some of the changes were non-impactful. Some of the changes were horrific. ALL of the changes were disappointing.

    I am glad Hood was revisited. You set your ship straight there and in the New Year we expect more of a proactive approach whenever you fail this hard. Which brings me to the point of this post.

    Please overturn this dark cloud of failure on top of the buff program and give DDHK and maybe even Guillotine some more love. Listen to the community and give us what we are looking for. Impactful changes to two loved champions. I really recommend small numbers changes to both champions, if you’re loaded for January. If it’s an absolute no, then try and squeeze them in with the slots for February and March.

    And if you want them to be the martyrs of your buff program, then tell us outright. You responded with Guillotine, but sweeped all the issues under the rug. DDHK has been waiting over a year for a response, 8000+ views and 200+ comments worth of valuable feedback falling on deaf ears. We are not asking for them to be overpowered, but the general consensus is that both buffs led to a net 0, and both had the overhaul. And that is a failure.

    I will repeat again: if you want them to be the martyrs of your buff program, then tell us outright that this will be so without having us falsely believe that they will continue to be monitored.

    But failing with buffs should neither be okay, nor should failure ever be set as a precedent.

    Please share your thoughts below.
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 433 ★★★
    edited December 2021
    It has been a difficult year. That's not being contentious or inflammatory - events speak for themselves so I don't need to dwell on them. But we are still here, customers and players, with a level of investment in the game so there's still hope.

    I think that there's some things that Kabam could do while the significant back-end work is going on, buffs included. All of them are low hanging fruit, easy wins, no-brainers.

    Quick Buffs. Implement a series of value/numbers only mini buffs. I'm talking Dormammu, DDHK, Agent Venom, Luke Cage, Ghost Rider and similar. Focus on quick wins, easy to test with minimal impact of Test and QA. Just improving the % chance for the things to happen in many older champs will be a good thing. This isn't too say they couldn't get a proper buff later on, but as I said low hanging fruit.

    Year Crystals. Make the recent yearly crystals available on a permanent basis in the Crystal Store until we get the Wish Crystal. Rotate them every day. This will be seen as an easy win and a pro player move.

    Login Calender crystal. It's widely derided for a good reason. Replace it with something else. You could have an Ultimate Crystal for Conquerers, Legendary for Uncollected, etc. Just something different.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 4,046 ★★★★★
    Kerneas said:


    Now lastly to your point: I absolutely agree that there should be given some clear communication regarding the "failures". There are many things I can overlook in the game. We are kinda spoilt by good services and sometimes we critisize utter bs details. But what Kabam absolutely fails at is communication, that just can't be overlooked. Is it that hard to give a resolute statement? To communicate clearly? Heck even the reset of epic difficulty in SEQ had us waiting for days and speculating over a private email. Then there's your 12k-views DDHK thread that didn't get a single response. I understand the game has issues and I have patience with them and understand the difficulties, but there are only few things as frustrating, as feeling that your feedback falls on a deaf ear. Especially when it is constructive a on a platform literally designed for that purpose.

    Wonderful write up and I really enjoyed reading it. I’m just going to quote the part where I resonate with the most, and I’m going to say yes and absolutely yes. Especially the last line.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 4,046 ★★★★★
    Chobbly said:



    Quick Buffs. Implement a series of value/numbers only mini buffs. I'm talking Dormammu, DDHK, Agent Venom, Luke Cage, Ghost Rider and similar. Focus on quick wins, easy to test with minimal impact of Test and QA. Just improving the % chance for the things to happen in many older champs will be a good thing. This isn't too say they couldn't get a proper buff later on, but as I said low hanging fruit.

    That’s a brilliant idea. Champions are stocks in our roster and buffs spike the value and utility of that stock. A rapid fire identification and execution of value buffs would be a great way to ensure that most bases in the game are covered before focusing on the overhauls.
    I would much prefer it if we got, say, 3 tune ups for every month of the next year, and saved the overhauls for the year after. Or some kind of balance with a focus on value buffs.
    That would cover many areas of the game.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 1,660 ★★★★
    Kerneas said:

    As expected, I agree with some points and disagree with others.

    What I mostly agree with is, that tjis year has had many downs and that the cost of new champs effectively prevents many people from getting those. I was really hyped to get Silver Centurion or Overseer, but still had no luck. That's why indeed my biggest hopes are in the buff program.

    However I must disagree with your list of "failed" buffs. I agree that DDHK and Guillotine are poorly designed and in case of Guilly this buff has even lowered her value. Which leaves a bitter aftertaste, considering how big role she has played in the story. But the other buffs you mentioned weren't a fail imo, Gamora hits nice with the new buff. Yea, she is a pure damage champ with low utility, but her usefulness has grown significantly and for beginning/progressing players, her value has maybe tripled after the two buffs. If you want a universal damage dealer in longer fights, why not tbh. Nova is pretty much the same - he can be used. He isn't a beast like CGR but in Act 5 he can do some work. And lastly, Ebony Maw. I know you said "to an extent", but I would say his buff was mostly a success. His damage is great, he has a fun to use kit and about the only weakness is his inability to propperly nullify (which could be fixed by extending his SP1 nullify to all buffs and not just fury etc).

    I think endgame players and below (so late cavs/early TB, like myself) tend to look at only very limited area of champion's uses. We look for utility that we can use in Act 6+7, Variants etc. and when a champ is buffed, we mostly look for that. But mid-game players don't need this utility on all their champs. If you are in 5.4 let's say, all you need is nullify, Bleed/Poison immunity and that's pretty much it. That's why for us, utility beast buffs (like VP) easily overshine ones like Gamora.

    I also think Kabam still aims for some gaussean distribution of champion power. Some champs are meant to be mediocre, in fact majority of champs should be mediocre. And that's the case of Nova: he used to be terrible and useless, on the bottom end of the spectrum. Then his buff put him on the "not great not terrible" levels in the middlebof the spectrum, because Kabam aimed to put him there. They wanted Nova to perform this way, same for Ronin. So in this way, their buffs were a success.

    I think it's a mistake if they're aiming for mediocre. They'll overshoot the mark and end up disappointing people with that as the goal. I get that they don't want to make a champ that romps through every scenario regardless of nodes, but they can't be scared every buff will end up Magneto unless they pre-nerf. Magneto is a special case where IMO, they gave him a bit too much and too much around him and then didn't correct moving forward. There are way too many #metal champs. Nimrod could've brought some balance, except the ultimate futuristic mutant hunter-killer is still #metal?
    I don't really know what the buff goals are right now. They've put out too many less than worthy efforts and I get the feeling they got off track and need to refocus and examine the program.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★

    He’s the perfect character for a small number change and regen change. Do it while there are no buffs this month! We deserve it for these past six months Kabam!

    I said this earlier. This is a great marketing tool for Kabam. We are tactfully telling them about a problem in the game, with facts and examples, and providing a myriad of solutions.

    We’re not asking for an overhaul. Well done on his kit - it just needs an adjustment.

    We’ve provided many many solutions. Please don’t ignore us - we all want the same thing.
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 433 ★★★
    Totally agree, @FluffyPigMonster . Sometimes a kit doesn't need a rework, just numbers.

    That's lots to build on - credit where it's due. DDHK has great animations for a start and some niche/limited utility in his kit (miss handling and combo control).

    A numbers increase for DDHK is an easy win for Kabam. A slam dunk. Low hanging fruit. There's too many metaphors. The wider benefits speak for themselves.

    An improvement to the numbers would have an additional effect. It could lift some of the synergies and make them a bit more viable. Take the much maligned Strength of Martyrs - the benefit it currently provides is negated by the combo loss in rotations, so it's rarely used. But with a value increase to the Cruelty buff in the base kit, even just a few seconds, the synergy then sits on top of it and becomes more worthwhile.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 4,046 ★★★★★
    DrZola said:

    My game team advice: Fix something. Get a few wins under your belt. Focus on delivering bug-free content.

    If the update program is part of all that, that’s fine. @Rookiie you know I am in agreement about the need to adjust DDHK.

    But at this stage I’d like to see more positive signs than I’m seeing. I’m still finding my champs stuck in place when I’m dexing and unable to parry reliably. Frames jag around or skip altogether—sadly, the champ update program won’t repair any of that.

    I don’t believe it’s an exaggeration to say that gifting and year end is the tipping point for a significant number of players after sticking through nearly half a year of poor performance.

    Will the promise of a better update program sometime in early 2022 be sufficient to reinvigorate loyal Summoners? I’m not so sure.

    Dr. Zola

    Very, very well said.
    I am skeptical of the way they are choosing to start the New Year. Starting the year right with engine refactoring progress, a promise for bug free content, and quick wins in the buff program would have gone a long way to reinvigorate loyal Summoners.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 6,420 ★★★★★
    Rookiie said:

    DrZola said:

    My game team advice: Fix something. Get a few wins under your belt. Focus on delivering bug-free content.

    If the update program is part of all that, that’s fine. @Rookiie you know I am in agreement about the need to adjust DDHK.

    But at this stage I’d like to see more positive signs than I’m seeing. I’m still finding my champs stuck in place when I’m dexing and unable to parry reliably. Frames jag around or skip altogether—sadly, the champ update program won’t repair any of that.

    I don’t believe it’s an exaggeration to say that gifting and year end is the tipping point for a significant number of players after sticking through nearly half a year of poor performance.

    Will the promise of a better update program sometime in early 2022 be sufficient to reinvigorate loyal Summoners? I’m not so sure.

    Dr. Zola

    Very, very well said.
    I am skeptical of the way they are choosing to start the New Year. Starting the year right with engine refactoring progress, a promise for bug free content, and quick wins in the buff program would have gone a long way to reinvigorate loyal Summoners.
    Right. In my estimation, so much of the negativity starts to dissipate with just getting something right. There are quite a few folks waiting for an opportunity to praise the team for good content and/or decisions (example: arena clean-up).

    But none of that begins with the players.

    If the decision to scale things back allows better focus on repairing the core of the game sooner, then that’s something many folks can understand and support. If so, just say it.

    Dr. Zola
  • Hort4Hort4 Posts: 273 ★★
    800 comments and most from the same small group of people on DDHK. Like the passion but not all champs are going to be fantastic.
This discussion has been closed.