Cyber Weekend Sales Feedback [Merged Threads]

Snizzbar

GroundedWisdom said:

Snizzbar said:

What is the immediate and game changing effect of reaching Thronebreaker, and why exactly would it have been so terrible to have a flood of new TB summoners? Is there a secret quest with amazing account progressing rewards that I'm unaware of that is locked behind the title?

You really need me to outline the effects? Besides the fact that these things are meant for a certain amount of progress (Thronebreaker alone was originally meant for people with multiple R3s in Act 7), you have the same problem we saw with too many people lumped into the same demographic like UC to Cav. It puts strain on designing content to meet the needs of as many as possible. Not to mention the Rewards which bypass months and years of work developing their Accounts.

What is the IMMEDIATE and GAME CHANGING effect of becoming Thronebreaker?
What exactly are the 'Rewards which bypass months and years of work developing their Accounts'? And where are they hidden? In the TB daily crystals?

DrZola

Texas_11 said:

I see the issue when people compare 4th of July deals. The confusion was Kabam made that offer to benefit top tier players now known as “ thronebreaker ” and cavalier players alike. That was the issue they were facing as a company. someone who just beat the collector were able to get the rewards as someone who just 100% abyss. As a result the rewards became inflated because they were targeting a large audience. Cavalier players got spoiled with rewards designs for two groups. All Kabam did was separate them.

The T5cc deals are not very relevant. They are small usually 4500 a pop, unless you have a steady flow coming in, it won’t make or break your account.

Kabam has made it clear they want to separate the players and I’m sure they did this because cavalier players were able to progress significantly faster then what they should have been, next thing you know , you have players beating act 6 with R3 champs. You see this happening in older content where people are going into act 6.1 and even 100% act 5 with 2-3 5/65 champs. Once they get to the level of a true thronebreaker, they don’t have the skills to complete it.

We saw this happen with the champion boss and players quit. In order to progress the struggling cavalier players they actually nerfed the content to push more players into higher tier progression.

I guess my point is , cavalier players benefited a ton from top tier players because Kabam bundled deals.

I think it is unwise to lump all Cav players in together. What you are suggesting is a type of coattails argument—that Cavs were mostly too unlucky, or too cheap or too “lazy” or just bought their way through and have been able to ride the coattails of the deserving go-getters until TB separated the wheat from the chaff—and now the non-TBs are just angry to be off the gravy train.

It’s a seductive line of reasoning, especially if you believe you are one of the deserving go-getters. I would suggest that the pool of deserving go-getters is far smaller than the pool of TBs.

Dr. Zola

Texas_11

DrZola said:

Texas_11 said:

I see the issue when people compare 4th of July deals. The confusion was Kabam made that offer to benefit top tier players now known as “ thronebreaker ” and cavalier players alike. That was the issue they were facing as a company. someone who just beat the collector were able to get the rewards as someone who just 100% abyss. As a result the rewards became inflated because they were targeting a large audience. Cavalier players got spoiled with rewards designs for two groups. All Kabam did was separate them.

The T5cc deals are not very relevant. They are small usually 4500 a pop, unless you have a steady flow coming in, it won’t make or break your account.

Kabam has made it clear they want to separate the players and I’m sure they did this because cavalier players were able to progress significantly faster then what they should have been, next thing you know , you have players beating act 6 with R3 champs. You see this happening in older content where people are going into act 6.1 and even 100% act 5 with 2-3 5/65 champs. Once they get to the level of a true thronebreaker, they don’t have the skills to complete it.

We saw this happen with the champion boss and players quit. In order to progress the struggling cavalier players they actually nerfed the content to push more players into higher tier progression.

I guess my point is , cavalier players benefited a ton from top tier players because Kabam bundled deals.

I think it is unwise to lump all Cav players in together. What you are suggesting is a type of coattails argument—that Cavs were mostly too unlucky, or too cheap or too “lazy” or just bought their way through and have been able to ride the coattails of the deserving go-getters until TB separated the wheat from the chaff—and now the non-TBs are just angry to be off the gravy train.

It’s a seductive line of reasoning, especially if you believe you are one of the deserving go-getters. I would suggest that the pool of deserving go-getters is far smaller than the pool of TBs.

Dr. Zola

You are right . I shouldn’t have lumped them together. But people were expecting to drop max odins on the throne-breaker. I wouldn’t call it riding a coattail as much as just an inheritance of circumstances. I believe I am deserving go better as I have all the content done. I don’t believe that cavalier should benefit anymore until they stretch their roster out.

Lovejoy72

Which side is winning? I’m trying to bandwagon here, and you folks aren’t making it easy.

Nix2222

Texas_11 said:

DrZola said:

Texas_11 said:

I see the issue when people compare 4th of July deals. The confusion was Kabam made that offer to benefit top tier players now known as “ thronebreaker ” and cavalier players alike. That was the issue they were facing as a company. someone who just beat the collector were able to get the rewards as someone who just 100% abyss. As a result the rewards became inflated because they were targeting a large audience. Cavalier players got spoiled with rewards designs for two groups. All Kabam did was separate them.

The T5cc deals are not very relevant. They are small usually 4500 a pop, unless you have a steady flow coming in, it won’t make or break your account.

Kabam has made it clear they want to separate the players and I’m sure they did this because cavalier players were able to progress significantly faster then what they should have been, next thing you know , you have players beating act 6 with R3 champs. You see this happening in older content where people are going into act 6.1 and even 100% act 5 with 2-3 5/65 champs. Once they get to the level of a true thronebreaker, they don’t have the skills to complete it.

We saw this happen with the champion boss and players quit. In order to progress the struggling cavalier players they actually nerfed the content to push more players into higher tier progression.

I guess my point is , cavalier players benefited a ton from top tier players because Kabam bundled deals.

I think it is unwise to lump all Cav players in together. What you are suggesting is a type of coattails argument—that Cavs were mostly too unlucky, or too cheap or too “lazy” or just bought their way through and have been able to ride the coattails of the deserving go-getters until TB separated the wheat from the chaff—and now the non-TBs are just angry to be off the gravy train.

It’s a seductive line of reasoning, especially if you believe you are one of the deserving go-getters. I would suggest that the pool of deserving go-getters is far smaller than the pool of TBs.

Dr. Zola

You are right . I shouldn’t have lumped them together. But people were expecting to drop max odins on the throne-breaker. I wouldn’t call it riding a coattail as much as just an inheritance of circumstances. I believe I am deserving go better as I have all the content done. I don’t believe that cavalier should benefit anymore until they stretch their roster out.

This is what I can’t stand- a sense of entitlement and belief that they deserve more than others. Worry about yourself and your own progression, not what others do or get. I’ve never seen so many entitled people trying to tell other people what they do/don’t deserve.

GroundedWisdom

Snizzbar said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Snizzbar said:

What is the immediate and game changing effect of reaching Thronebreaker, and why exactly would it have been so terrible to have a flood of new TB summoners? Is there a secret quest with amazing account progressing rewards that I'm unaware of that is locked behind the title?

You really need me to outline the effects? Besides the fact that these things are meant for a certain amount of progress (Thronebreaker alone was originally meant for people with multiple R3s in Act 7), you have the same problem we saw with too many people lumped into the same demographic like UC to Cav. It puts strain on designing content to meet the needs of as many as possible. Not to mention the Rewards which bypass months and years of work developing their Accounts.

What is the IMMEDIATE and GAME CHANGING effect of becoming Thronebreaker?
What exactly are the 'Rewards which bypass months and years of work developing their Accounts'? And where are they hidden? In the TB daily crystals?

One individual? Very little indeed. Too many people hitting it all at once? Quite large actually. There is an effect when people reach these things prematurely.

DrZola

Texas_11 said:

DrZola said:

Texas_11 said:

I see the issue when people compare 4th of July deals. The confusion was Kabam made that offer to benefit top tier players now known as “ thronebreaker ” and cavalier players alike. That was the issue they were facing as a company. someone who just beat the collector were able to get the rewards as someone who just 100% abyss. As a result the rewards became inflated because they were targeting a large audience. Cavalier players got spoiled with rewards designs for two groups. All Kabam did was separate them.

The T5cc deals are not very relevant. They are small usually 4500 a pop, unless you have a steady flow coming in, it won’t make or break your account.

Kabam has made it clear they want to separate the players and I’m sure they did this because cavalier players were able to progress significantly faster then what they should have been, next thing you know , you have players beating act 6 with R3 champs. You see this happening in older content where people are going into act 6.1 and even 100% act 5 with 2-3 5/65 champs. Once they get to the level of a true thronebreaker, they don’t have the skills to complete it.

We saw this happen with the champion boss and players quit. In order to progress the struggling cavalier players they actually nerfed the content to push more players into higher tier progression.

I guess my point is , cavalier players benefited a ton from top tier players because Kabam bundled deals.

I think it is unwise to lump all Cav players in together. What you are suggesting is a type of coattails argument—that Cavs were mostly too unlucky, or too cheap or too “lazy” or just bought their way through and have been able to ride the coattails of the deserving go-getters until TB separated the wheat from the chaff—and now the non-TBs are just angry to be off the gravy train.

It’s a seductive line of reasoning, especially if you believe you are one of the deserving go-getters. I would suggest that the pool of deserving go-getters is far smaller than the pool of TBs.

Dr. Zola

You are right . I shouldn’t have lumped them together. But people were expecting to drop max odins on the throne-breaker. I wouldn’t call it riding a coattail as much as just an inheritance of circumstances. I believe I am deserving go better as I have all the content done. I don’t believe that cavalier should benefit anymore until they stretch their roster out.

Spot on. There’s a huge swath of players in Cavalier—a new player who struggles with Cav EQ has much different needs than a veteran who runs the 4* challenge itemless and is trying to find time to hit Abyss. They aren’t the same by a long stretch, but progression titles treat them the same.

Sadly, I think the money was too good for the game to resist going all in on the progression titles. I wish they had just made them meaningful, difficult to obtain and unique to specific content. But that cow is way out of the barn now.

Dr. Zola

GroundedWisdom

They're literally meaningful, difficult to obtain, and specific to content.

DrZola

Meaningful: cf. Elder’s Bane

Difficult to obtain: some titles for some players, perhaps

Specific to content: champ rank requirements aren’t specific to content

Dr. Zola

Texas_11

Nix2222 said:

Texas_11 said:

DrZola said:

Texas_11 said:

I see the issue when people compare 4th of July deals. The confusion was Kabam made that offer to benefit top tier players now known as “ thronebreaker ” and cavalier players alike. That was the issue they were facing as a company. someone who just beat the collector were able to get the rewards as someone who just 100% abyss. As a result the rewards became inflated because they were targeting a large audience. Cavalier players got spoiled with rewards designs for two groups. All Kabam did was separate them.

The T5cc deals are not very relevant. They are small usually 4500 a pop, unless you have a steady flow coming in, it won’t make or break your account.

Kabam has made it clear they want to separate the players and I’m sure they did this because cavalier players were able to progress significantly faster then what they should have been, next thing you know , you have players beating act 6 with R3 champs. You see this happening in older content where people are going into act 6.1 and even 100% act 5 with 2-3 5/65 champs. Once they get to the level of a true thronebreaker, they don’t have the skills to complete it.

We saw this happen with the champion boss and players quit. In order to progress the struggling cavalier players they actually nerfed the content to push more players into higher tier progression.

I guess my point is , cavalier players benefited a ton from top tier players because Kabam bundled deals.

I think it is unwise to lump all Cav players in together. What you are suggesting is a type of coattails argument—that Cavs were mostly too unlucky, or too cheap or too “lazy” or just bought their way through and have been able to ride the coattails of the deserving go-getters until TB separated the wheat from the chaff—and now the non-TBs are just angry to be off the gravy train.

It’s a seductive line of reasoning, especially if you believe you are one of the deserving go-getters. I would suggest that the pool of deserving go-getters is far smaller than the pool of TBs.

Dr. Zola

You are right . I shouldn’t have lumped them together. But people were expecting to drop max odins on the throne-breaker. I wouldn’t call it riding a coattail as much as just an inheritance of circumstances. I believe I am deserving go better as I have all the content done. I don’t believe that cavalier should benefit anymore until they stretch their roster out.

This is what I can’t stand- a sense of entitlement and belief that they deserve more than others. Worry about yourself and your own progression, not what others do or get. I’ve never seen so many entitled people trying to tell other people what they do/don’t deserve.

But you can have an opinion? Entitlement ? I earned them. Also, I think for the sake of the game it is important for players of all tiers to contribute.

GroundedWisdom

DrZola said:

Meaningful: cf. Elder’s Bane

Difficult to obtain: some titles for some players, perhaps

Specific to content: champ rank requirements aren’t specific to content

Dr. Zola

Meaningful: If it didn't matter, do you think people would be here fighting for it?
Difficult to obtain: Obvious.
Specific to content: You not only need to complete Act 6, you also need to do sufficient content to get the Cat to Rank. By that time, you should at least have one Champ of that Class. The rest about Ranking only certain Champs is added on by selectiveness.

BadPullsMarco

Its just so absurd the different in offers, its just so hard to get around the fact that one smaller group pays $30 for a nexus and this other huge group pays $100 for the same thing when most have done the same content.

BadPullsMarco

Its also interesting to watch people defend a wicked choice from Karam so they can feel elite and segregated. This forum thread is an interesting view into human psychology.

Nix2222

Texas_11 said:

Nix2222 said:

Texas_11 said:

DrZola said:

Texas_11 said:

I see the issue when people compare 4th of July deals. The confusion was Kabam made that offer to benefit top tier players now known as “ thronebreaker ” and cavalier players alike. That was the issue they were facing as a company. someone who just beat the collector were able to get the rewards as someone who just 100% abyss. As a result the rewards became inflated because they were targeting a large audience. Cavalier players got spoiled with rewards designs for two groups. All Kabam did was separate them.

The T5cc deals are not very relevant. They are small usually 4500 a pop, unless you have a steady flow coming in, it won’t make or break your account.

Kabam has made it clear they want to separate the players and I’m sure they did this because cavalier players were able to progress significantly faster then what they should have been, next thing you know , you have players beating act 6 with R3 champs. You see this happening in older content where people are going into act 6.1 and even 100% act 5 with 2-3 5/65 champs. Once they get to the level of a true thronebreaker, they don’t have the skills to complete it.

We saw this happen with the champion boss and players quit. In order to progress the struggling cavalier players they actually nerfed the content to push more players into higher tier progression.

I guess my point is , cavalier players benefited a ton from top tier players because Kabam bundled deals.

I think it is unwise to lump all Cav players in together. What you are suggesting is a type of coattails argument—that Cavs were mostly too unlucky, or too cheap or too “lazy” or just bought their way through and have been able to ride the coattails of the deserving go-getters until TB separated the wheat from the chaff—and now the non-TBs are just angry to be off the gravy train.

It’s a seductive line of reasoning, especially if you believe you are one of the deserving go-getters. I would suggest that the pool of deserving go-getters is far smaller than the pool of TBs.

Dr. Zola

You are right . I shouldn’t have lumped them together. But people were expecting to drop max odins on the throne-breaker. I wouldn’t call it riding a coattail as much as just an inheritance of circumstances. I believe I am deserving go better as I have all the content done. I don’t believe that cavalier should benefit anymore until they stretch their roster out.

This is what I can’t stand- a sense of entitlement and belief that they deserve more than others. Worry about yourself and your own progression, not what others do or get. I’ve never seen so many entitled people trying to tell other people what they do/don’t deserve.

But you can have an opinion? Entitlement ? I earned them. Also, I think for the sake of the game it is important for players of all tiers to contribute.

Not saying you can’t have an opinion, just not sure why some people focus on other people’s progression. I never said people don’t deserve things, I love seeing others achieve milestones, you did by stating that others don’t deserve something until they broaden their rosters. That is the difference to me. So many people worried about what others get. That’s where the entitlement came in.

Nix2222

BadPullsMarco said:

Its just so absurd the different in offers, its just so hard to get around the fact that one smaller group pays $30 for a nexus and this other huge group pays $100 for the same thing when most have done the same content.

100% agree. If I were to try this with my business I’m pretty sure I’d be staring at a discrimination lawsuit.

Worknprogress

Nix2222 said:

Texas_11 said:

Nix2222 said:

Texas_11 said:

DrZola said:

Texas_11 said:

I see the issue when people compare 4th of July deals. The confusion was Kabam made that offer to benefit top tier players now known as “ thronebreaker ” and cavalier players alike. That was the issue they were facing as a company. someone who just beat the collector were able to get the rewards as someone who just 100% abyss. As a result the rewards became inflated because they were targeting a large audience. Cavalier players got spoiled with rewards designs for two groups. All Kabam did was separate them.

The T5cc deals are not very relevant. They are small usually 4500 a pop, unless you have a steady flow coming in, it won’t make or break your account.

Kabam has made it clear they want to separate the players and I’m sure they did this because cavalier players were able to progress significantly faster then what they should have been, next thing you know , you have players beating act 6 with R3 champs. You see this happening in older content where people are going into act 6.1 and even 100% act 5 with 2-3 5/65 champs. Once they get to the level of a true thronebreaker, they don’t have the skills to complete it.

We saw this happen with the champion boss and players quit. In order to progress the struggling cavalier players they actually nerfed the content to push more players into higher tier progression.

I guess my point is , cavalier players benefited a ton from top tier players because Kabam bundled deals.

I think it is unwise to lump all Cav players in together. What you are suggesting is a type of coattails argument—that Cavs were mostly too unlucky, or too cheap or too “lazy” or just bought their way through and have been able to ride the coattails of the deserving go-getters until TB separated the wheat from the chaff—and now the non-TBs are just angry to be off the gravy train.

It’s a seductive line of reasoning, especially if you believe you are one of the deserving go-getters. I would suggest that the pool of deserving go-getters is far smaller than the pool of TBs.

Dr. Zola

You are right . I shouldn’t have lumped them together. But people were expecting to drop max odins on the throne-breaker. I wouldn’t call it riding a coattail as much as just an inheritance of circumstances. I believe I am deserving go better as I have all the content done. I don’t believe that cavalier should benefit anymore until they stretch their roster out.

This is what I can’t stand- a sense of entitlement and belief that they deserve more than others. Worry about yourself and your own progression, not what others do or get. I’ve never seen so many entitled people trying to tell other people what they do/don’t deserve.

But you can have an opinion? Entitlement ? I earned them. Also, I think for the sake of the game it is important for players of all tiers to contribute.

Not saying you can’t have an opinion, just not sure why some people focus on other people’s progression. I never said people don’t deserve things, I love seeing others achieve milestones, you did by stating that others don’t deserve something until they broaden their rosters. That is the difference to me. So many people worried about what others get. That’s where the entitlement came in.

You realize the whole reason this thread was started was bc a group of people were mad about what they got and worried about what other people got right?

Sbkrueb

@GroundedWisdom ... is being a contrarian a** hat who purposefully trolls too get dislikes the only way you can get off.

Ffs you would argue anything just to be a dink. Whether wrong or right.

Silver_Goose

Sbkrueb said:

@GroundedWisdom ... is being a contrarian a** hat who purposefully trolls too get dislikes the only way you can get off.

Ffs you would argue anything just to be a dink. Whether wrong or right.

Wow that’s...honest.

DrZola

I will try to explain @GroundedWisdom

Regarding progression titles, your quote:

“They're literally meaningful, difficult to obtain, and specific to content.”

Uncollected: While meaningful (you get stuff) and specific to content (one fight against the Collector), this is a title that is no longer difficult to obtain. I recently watched a very occasional player in a super casual alliance who is L55 waltz through that fight with a R3 Stark Spidey.

Elder’s Bane: Not at all meaningful (you get no stuff), but is specific to content (explore Act 5) and I would argue is reasonably difficult to obtain if for no other reason than the amount of paths.

Cavalier: Also meaningful (you get stuff) and specific to content (one pass through 6.1), but has been nerfed substantially and would be tough to classify as “difficult to obtain” given today’s roster inflation.

Thronebreaker: Meaningful (just look at the forums), partly specific to content (one pass through GM) but partly roster/rankup dependent and reasonably difficult to obtain (content portion can be difficult where counter specific, but rankup portion can be purchased and/or obtained elsewhere, which doesn’t necessarily qualify as difficult).

Hence, literally not literally.

Dr. Zola

Nix2222

Worknprogress said:

Nix2222 said:

Texas_11 said:

Nix2222 said:

Texas_11 said:

DrZola said:

Texas_11 said:

I see the issue when people compare 4th of July deals. The confusion was Kabam made that offer to benefit top tier players now known as “ thronebreaker ” and cavalier players alike. That was the issue they were facing as a company. someone who just beat the collector were able to get the rewards as someone who just 100% abyss. As a result the rewards became inflated because they were targeting a large audience. Cavalier players got spoiled with rewards designs for two groups. All Kabam did was separate them.

The T5cc deals are not very relevant. They are small usually 4500 a pop, unless you have a steady flow coming in, it won’t make or break your account.

Kabam has made it clear they want to separate the players and I’m sure they did this because cavalier players were able to progress significantly faster then what they should have been, next thing you know , you have players beating act 6 with R3 champs. You see this happening in older content where people are going into act 6.1 and even 100% act 5 with 2-3 5/65 champs. Once they get to the level of a true thronebreaker, they don’t have the skills to complete it.

We saw this happen with the champion boss and players quit. In order to progress the struggling cavalier players they actually nerfed the content to push more players into higher tier progression.

I guess my point is , cavalier players benefited a ton from top tier players because Kabam bundled deals.

I think it is unwise to lump all Cav players in together. What you are suggesting is a type of coattails argument—that Cavs were mostly too unlucky, or too cheap or too “lazy” or just bought their way through and have been able to ride the coattails of the deserving go-getters until TB separated the wheat from the chaff—and now the non-TBs are just angry to be off the gravy train.

It’s a seductive line of reasoning, especially if you believe you are one of the deserving go-getters. I would suggest that the pool of deserving go-getters is far smaller than the pool of TBs.

Dr. Zola

You are right . I shouldn’t have lumped them together. But people were expecting to drop max odins on the throne-breaker. I wouldn’t call it riding a coattail as much as just an inheritance of circumstances. I believe I am deserving go better as I have all the content done. I don’t believe that cavalier should benefit anymore until they stretch their roster out.

This is what I can’t stand- a sense of entitlement and belief that they deserve more than others. Worry about yourself and your own progression, not what others do or get. I’ve never seen so many entitled people trying to tell other people what they do/don’t deserve.

But you can have an opinion? Entitlement ? I earned them. Also, I think for the sake of the game it is important for players of all tiers to contribute.

Not saying you can’t have an opinion, just not sure why some people focus on other people’s progression. I never said people don’t deserve things, I love seeing others achieve milestones, you did by stating that others don’t deserve something until they broaden their rosters. That is the difference to me. So many people worried about what others get. That’s where the entitlement came in.

You realize the whole reason this thread was started was bc a group of people were mad about what they got and worried about what other people got right?

I think it was based on what people didn’t get, not what others did get.

ccrider474

GroundedWisdom said:

They're literally meaningful, difficult to obtain, and specific to content.

What content are they specific to? 100% story can potentially net someone the cat but rng can be r3 groot, og dd, og cap, pat, fixit or diablo. If you want to r3 those champs as I seen on forums someone loves diablo and did it cause he wants to that is fantastic but forcing anyone to rank that person is not. I am a lowly cav that does the 4* challenge itemless, nerfed act 6 champion i was doing 2 lanes in 1 go to save time itemless (bar refills not even a boost). It's a kick in the teeth seeing people that only ran through act 6 but bought all the cats available be further in progress than me. No biggie figure i could use this cyber weekend get some resources that help my act 6 push and more items that truly help my account to boot. I personally didn't ask for much just not a stupid r5 gem but the cats instead and swap that t5 random to a selector.

I'm at 50% of every single t5c
7 r2 6*
12 r5 5* (with 2 gems that meh I'll get around to)
19 r4 5*

31 6* in general 4 duped with rhulk at 60 dupe

And I can very easily have to decide (if I get t5c skill) if I want to r3 og dd for the title.

Not all cavalier are the same that is for sure. Titles should never include rng.

Worknprogress

Nix2222 said:

BadPullsMarco said:

Its just so absurd the different in offers, its just so hard to get around the fact that one smaller group pays $30 for a nexus and this other huge group pays $100 for the same thing when most have done the same content.

100% agree. If I were to try this with my business I’m pretty sure I’d be staring at a discrimination lawsuit.

Yes, business that give discounts to certain customers due to memberships or frequent business get sued for discrimination all the time...