which buff is the best on paper

Gardener

this is to see everyones opinion and how close they are to the reality when we get to see gameplay

Colonaut123

Don't know. I need to study them a lot more. I saw Seatin's vids, but his analysis could be wrong. I'm very sceptical of Kingpin utility-wise. There are some red flags.

Rockypantherx

Moleman

Yellowjacket is the best utility wise. But I’m worried about his damage being at a reasonable level

Terrax is in the middle of the pack with hood damage and somewhat lacklustre utility. I mean it’s literally Kiev’s utility without the chance to shrug off debuffs

Kingpin will be loved by the big yellow numbers cult. His only good utility is the 100% chance to shrug off with the hood synergy. Which is very powerful, but it requires a synergy. Without thy synergy, he seems like skill domino to me. Big numbers, no reliable utility

That leaves mole man. Has some great utility m. Shock immunity, debuff shrug off guaranteed, true accuracy from first second of the fight, ability to gain openings through his unstoppable, gains tankiness with monster mass, has lots of debuffs. And can keep 100% uptime on guaranteed crits and bleeds

The only thing I’m hesitant on with mole man is whether his damage is good enough outside of frenzy, since he loses almost all utility in that state. A major flaw in the champ design that I really wish was corrected but oh well

Silver_Goose

Kingpin

Here me out: Joe Fixit. Most old champs have gotten at least some minor synergy boosts. Joe Fixit: not at all, and this new synergy is no exception, 20% attack is barely anything. SO - We can expect an overhaul for him. That makes running the synergy team for Kingpin much more realistic. I know i’m thinking long term, but i have high hopes for that. 120% debuff removal is a BIG piece of utility.

SpideyFunko

Silver_Goose said:

Here me out: Joe Fixit. Most old champs have gotten at least some minor synergy boosts. Joe Fixit: not at all, and this new synergy is no exception, 20% attack is barely anything. SO - We can expect an overhaul for him. That makes running the synergy team for Kingpin much more realistic. I know i’m thinking long term, but i have high hopes for that. 120% debuff removal is a BIG piece of utility.

wdym much more realistic just run Kingpin with Hood. Pairs great with Ghost. Heck, throw Wasp in there and the cult of yellow numbers is having a fiesta day

Etjama

Moleman

I could explain my thoughts, but I'd pretty much end up saying exact what @Rockypantherx has already said but in a way that's not nearly as wise. I'd also say it with much more angst. Basically, Mole Man is going to have the best mix of damage and utility, but of course Kingpin is going to be the most voted one because people go gaga over big yellow numbers. He has 1 piece of utility. 1. And he needs a synergy to make it reliable, people.

Silver_Goose

Kingpin

SpideyFunko said:

Silver_Goose said:

Here me out: Joe Fixit. Most old champs have gotten at least some minor synergy boosts. Joe Fixit: not at all, and this new synergy is no exception, 20% attack is barely anything. SO - We can expect an overhaul for him. That makes running the synergy team for Kingpin much more realistic. I know i’m thinking long term, but i have high hopes for that. 120% debuff removal is a BIG piece of utility.

wdym much more realistic just run Kingpin with Hood. Pairs great with Ghost. Heck, throw Wasp in there and the cult of yellow numbers is having a fiesta day

Yeah but Hood is meh and i don’t have ghost

ItsDamien

Etjama said:

I could explain my thoughts, but I'd pretty much end up saying exact what @Rockypantherx has already said but in a way that's not nearly as wise. I'd also say it with much more angst. Basically, Mole Man is going to have the best mix of damage and utility, but of course Kingpin is going to be the most voted one because people go gaga over big yellow numbers. He has 1 piece of utility. 1. And he needs a synergy to make it reliable, people.

Evade counter. Shrugs off debuffs 100% with one synergy. Unstoppable. Super suicide friendly.

He's like Aegon if Aegon started at a 150 combo.

Rayaan_2000

Terrax

Etjama said:

I could explain my thoughts, but I'd pretty much end up saying exact what @Rockypantherx has already said but in a way that's not nearly as wise. I'd also say it with much more angst. Basically, Mole Man is going to have the best mix of damage and utility, but of course Kingpin is going to be the most voted one because people go gaga over big yellow numbers. He has 1 piece of utility. 1. And he needs a synergy to make it reliable, people.

Actually he has 2 pieces of utility, debuff immunity and damage, I consider damage a utility in itself, for instance, u don't need to worry about IMIW's auto block if one special takes him from 40% to KO, that said, I'm most looking forward to seeing some terrax gameplay, I've been hunting for him as a 5 or 6 star

Rockypantherx

Moleman

ItsDamien said:

Etjama said:

I could explain my thoughts, but I'd pretty much end up saying exact what @Rockypantherx has already said but in a way that's not nearly as wise. I'd also say it with much more angst. Basically, Mole Man is going to have the best mix of damage and utility, but of course Kingpin is going to be the most voted one because people go gaga over big yellow numbers. He has 1 piece of utility. 1. And he needs a synergy to make it reliable, people.

Evade counter. Shrugs off debuffs 100% with one synergy. Unstoppable. Super suicide friendly.

He's like Aegon if Aegon started at a 150 combo.

He’s not an evade counter at his base, that requires a synergy. On his base he just gains a rage if they evade or autoblock. He doesn’t prevent it unless you use the degen off the SP1, but that’s unreliable

Unstoppable is a niche utility and even at that, Moleman can access that easily as well.

Not to say kingpin’s bad, but the utility...well...it’s sub par without the hood synergy

Etjama

Moleman

ItsDamien said:

Etjama said:

I could explain my thoughts, but I'd pretty much end up saying exact what @Rockypantherx has already said but in a way that's not nearly as wise. I'd also say it with much more angst. Basically, Mole Man is going to have the best mix of damage and utility, but of course Kingpin is going to be the most voted one because people go gaga over big yellow numbers. He has 1 piece of utility. 1. And he needs a synergy to make it reliable, people.

Evade counter. Shrugs off debuffs 100% with one synergy. Unstoppable. Super suicide friendly.

He's like Aegon if Aegon started at a 150 combo.

He's not an evade counter. Which seems pretty counter-intuitive considering you should want the opponent to evade.

You basically just named some things Mole-Man does, plus he ignores auto-block and resistances, doesn't need a synergy for the shrug-off, is shock immune, handles stun immune fights extremely well, and has guaranteed crits.

SpideyFunko

Silver_Goose said:

SpideyFunko said:

Silver_Goose said:

Here me out: Joe Fixit. Most old champs have gotten at least some minor synergy boosts. Joe Fixit: not at all, and this new synergy is no exception, 20% attack is barely anything. SO - We can expect an overhaul for him. That makes running the synergy team for Kingpin much more realistic. I know i’m thinking long term, but i have high hopes for that. 120% debuff removal is a BIG piece of utility.

wdym much more realistic just run Kingpin with Hood. Pairs great with Ghost. Heck, throw Wasp in there and the cult of yellow numbers is having a fiesta day

Yeah but Hood is meh and i don’t have ghost

Hood > Joe Fixit right now. And even still, bringing in Hood for content is realistic. Plenty of people have ranked up Hoods. Heck, @Cat_Murdock has a rank 3

ItsDamien

Rockypantherx said:

ItsDamien said:

Etjama said:

I could explain my thoughts, but I'd pretty much end up saying exact what @Rockypantherx has already said but in a way that's not nearly as wise. I'd also say it with much more angst. Basically, Mole Man is going to have the best mix of damage and utility, but of course Kingpin is going to be the most voted one because people go gaga over big yellow numbers. He has 1 piece of utility. 1. And he needs a synergy to make it reliable, people.

Evade counter. Shrugs off debuffs 100% with one synergy. Unstoppable. Super suicide friendly.

He's like Aegon if Aegon started at a 150 combo.

He’s not an evade counter at his base, that requires a synergy. On his base he just gains a rage if they evade or autoblock. He doesn’t prevent it unless you use the degen off the SP1, but that’s unreliable

Unstoppable is a niche utility and even at that, Moleman can access that easily as well.

Not to say kingpin’s bad, but the utility...well...it’s sub par without the hood synergy

Sure, but you're essentially looking at it like this:

"A ferrari is really fast, but if you take away its engine, and it's wheels, it's not good."

You have to look at a whole package of possibilities rather than the select one thing. We have 3-5 slots to fill out questing teams, may as well look at the full potential rather than the individual parts. If I need an evade counter, I can add DDHK with Kingpin. If I don't, I don't bring him. If I want to shrug a lot of debuffs, I'll bring Hood (who is underrated on his own anyway).

You also forget that the unstoppable heavy also grants him 3150 physical resistance, making him tanky in the right situations.

Even then on his own, without the synergies he'll still be a consistently decent champ, even at a base 60% shrug off ability.

I don't have a dog in this fight since I don't have any of these champs above a r1 5*, but Kingpin is very tempting overall.

Etjama

Moleman

ItsDamien said:

Rockypantherx said:

ItsDamien said:

Etjama said:

I could explain my thoughts, but I'd pretty much end up saying exact what @Rockypantherx has already said but in a way that's not nearly as wise. I'd also say it with much more angst. Basically, Mole Man is going to have the best mix of damage and utility, but of course Kingpin is going to be the most voted one because people go gaga over big yellow numbers. He has 1 piece of utility. 1. And he needs a synergy to make it reliable, people.

Evade counter. Shrugs off debuffs 100% with one synergy. Unstoppable. Super suicide friendly.

He's like Aegon if Aegon started at a 150 combo.

He’s not an evade counter at his base, that requires a synergy. On his base he just gains a rage if they evade or autoblock. He doesn’t prevent it unless you use the degen off the SP1, but that’s unreliable

Unstoppable is a niche utility and even at that, Moleman can access that easily as well.

Not to say kingpin’s bad, but the utility...well...it’s sub par without the hood synergy

Sure, but you're essentially looking at it like this:

"A ferrari is really fast, but if you take away its engine, and it's wheels, it's not good."

You have to look at a whole package of possibilities rather than the select one thing. We have 3-5 slots to fill out questing teams, may as well look at the full potential rather than the individual parts. If I need an evade counter, I can add DDHK with Kingpin. If I don't, I don't bring him. If I want to shrug a lot of debuffs, I'll bring Hood (who is underrated on his own anyway).

You also forget that the unstoppable heavy also grants him 3150 physical resistance, making him tanky in the right situations.

Even then on his own, without the synergies he'll still be a consistently decent champ, even at a base 60% shrug off ability.

I don't have a dog in this fight since I don't have any of these champs above a r1 5*, but Kingpin is very tempting overall.

But why take the time to install the engine and wheels on a Ferrari when you have an even better one outside your doorstep?

You're talking about wasting slots on a team to make Kingpin an evade counter or reliable debuff shrugger when Mole-Man has that at his base and more...

Etjama

Moleman

@ItsDamien why take the time to install the engine and wheels on a Ferrari when you have an even better one outside your doorstep?

You're talking about wasting slots on a team to make Kingpin an evade counter or reliable debuff shrugger when Mole-Man has that at his base and more...

Rockypantherx

Moleman

ItsDamien said:

Rockypantherx said:

ItsDamien said:

Etjama said:

I could explain my thoughts, but I'd pretty much end up saying exact what @Rockypantherx has already said but in a way that's not nearly as wise. I'd also say it with much more angst. Basically, Mole Man is going to have the best mix of damage and utility, but of course Kingpin is going to be the most voted one because people go gaga over big yellow numbers. He has 1 piece of utility. 1. And he needs a synergy to make it reliable, people.

Evade counter. Shrugs off debuffs 100% with one synergy. Unstoppable. Super suicide friendly.

He's like Aegon if Aegon started at a 150 combo.

He’s not an evade counter at his base, that requires a synergy. On his base he just gains a rage if they evade or autoblock. He doesn’t prevent it unless you use the degen off the SP1, but that’s unreliable

Unstoppable is a niche utility and even at that, Moleman can access that easily as well.

Not to say kingpin’s bad, but the utility...well...it’s sub par without the hood synergy

Sure, but you're essentially looking at it like this:

"A ferrari is really fast, but if you take away its engine, and it's wheels, it's not good."

You have to look at a whole package of possibilities rather than the select one thing. We have 3-5 slots to fill out questing teams, may as well look at the full potential rather than the individual parts. If I need an evade counter, I can add DDHK with Kingpin. If I don't, I don't bring him. If I want to shrug a lot of debuffs, I'll bring Hood (who is underrated on his own anyway).

You also forget that the unstoppable heavy also grants him 3150 physical resistance, making him tanky in the right situations.

Even then on his own, without the synergies he'll still be a consistently decent champ, even at a base 60% shrug off ability.

I don't have a dog in this fight since I don't have any of these champs above a r1 5*, but Kingpin is very tempting overall.

The issue with synergies is two fold in my eyes.

1. Players might simply not have the accompanying champion. Therefore it’s not a viable option for them
2. A path might just not allow for one or two synergy slots

I mean, if we’re looking at champs as a ‘whole package’, that’s a whole different can of worms. At that point there really no point using anything other than a roided up mutant team if you know what I mean

I think Kingpin is going to have his place with the hood synergy. He can be used as an evade counter with DDHK synergy, but I don’t really think that’s going to be a selling point if the champ

The main thing is whether he is able to handle difficult matchups that involve debuffs with that synergy. Remember, he has a small cooldown between activations. But it’s still one tick of a DOT debuff, and over the course of an entire path, I’m worried he couldn’t sustain it. Of course, maybe the rage heal will account for it

But regarding the main topic, if I had to recommend someone to rank up either kingpin or mole man, I would lean mole man. Simply because he can cover a lot more bases in a roster, including what kingpin does, without synergies.

I’ve got them all as 5*s, mole man as a 6* as well, so I want them all to be excellent. That’s maybe why I’m being quite critical of them. T2A is scarce so if I’m investing in someone they have to be worth it

ItsDamien

Etjama said:

@ItsDamien why take the time to install the engine and wheels on a Ferrari when you have an even better one outside your doorstep?

You're talking about wasting slots on a team to make Kingpin an evade counter or reliable debuff shrugger when Mole-Man has that at his base and more...

You lose some of that when you go into Frenzy as well at base.

I'd rather have the choice of what parts I can put into my car to make it the best for whatever race it's going in.

They are both going to be used differently. But ultimately having the choice in what utility I can attach to a champ that makes them better is always a good thing, rather than having a static option that I can't adjust.

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Unknown

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Deacon

fortunate to have them all so i'll do a test run when the buffs, value updates etc go live tomorrow.

Etjama

Moleman

ItsDamien said:

Etjama said:

@ItsDamien why take the time to install the engine and wheels on a Ferrari when you have an even better one outside your doorstep?

You're talking about wasting slots on a team to make Kingpin an evade counter or reliable debuff shrugger when Mole-Man has that at his base and more...

You lose some of that when you go into Frenzy as well at base.

I'd rather have the choice of what parts I can put into my car to make it the best for whatever race it's going in.

They are both going to be used differently. But ultimately having the choice in what utility I can attach to a champ that makes them better is always a good thing, rather than having a static option that I can't adjust.

Sure he can't access all his damage in his utility phase but his damage is still gonna be solid with his extra bleed damage now. I don't see how you could possibly think that's more of a negative than needing 2 synergy members for utility and still not having as much utility as Mole-Man.

KDSuperFlash10

Kingpin

Silver_Goose said:

SpideyFunko said:

Silver_Goose said:

Here me out: Joe Fixit. Most old champs have gotten at least some minor synergy boosts. Joe Fixit: not at all, and this new synergy is no exception, 20% attack is barely anything. SO - We can expect an overhaul for him. That makes running the synergy team for Kingpin much more realistic. I know i’m thinking long term, but i have high hopes for that. 120% debuff removal is a BIG piece of utility.

wdym much more realistic just run Kingpin with Hood. Pairs great with Ghost. Heck, throw Wasp in there and the cult of yellow numbers is having a fiesta day

Yeah but Hood is meh and i don’t have ghost

Maybe you should get Ghost then

Rockypantherx

Moleman

Primerprime5 said:

Rockypantherx said:

Yellowjacket is the best utility wise. But I’m worried about his damage being at a reasonable level

Terrax is in the middle of the pack with hood damage and somewhat lacklustre utility. I mean it’s literally Kiev’s utility without the chance to shrug off debuffs

Kingpin will be loved by the big yellow numbers cult. His only good utility is the 100% chance to shrug off with the hood synergy. Which is very powerful, but it requires a synergy. Without thy synergy, he seems like skill domino to me. Big numbers, no reliable utility

That leaves mole man. Has some great utility m. Shock immunity, debuff shrug off guaranteed, true accuracy from first second of the fight, ability to gain openings through his unstoppable, gains tankiness with monster mass, has lots of debuffs. And can keep 100% uptime on guaranteed crits and bleeds

The only thing I’m hesitant on with mole man is whether his damage is good enough outside of frenzy, since he loses almost all utility in that state. A major flaw in the champ design that I really wish was corrected but oh well

Agree with most of this, but Terrax doesn't have Hood levels of damage. In Kam's video he produces 10-12k mediums and 45k Heavies. That doesn't look like Hood damage to me. As for lackluster utility, what do you mean? Triple immunities, Armour Break, on-demand Indestructibility, access to both Physical and unavoidable Energy damage and Power Gain are very solid utilities that can help in a lot of scenarios. The ability to manipulate his own Defensive Combat Rate is completely unique in the game, and can help out a lot of more experienced players. Don't forget, if played right he'll essentially never lose Power on his Specials, allowing him to spam Sp2s infinitely. He'll definitely end up in the upper echelon of Cosmic Champs.

Sorry that should say good damage and Korg’s utility. It’s just damn autocorrect.

Terrax is only double immune? Bleed and shock. Both great immunities, and almost permanent armour break is excellent. The indestructibility is nice, but since it can’t tank SP3’s, it’s more sustainability than utility. Still good, just not what you’re going to use the champ for. Physical and energy damage don’t mean much unless a champ does exclusively one or the other. Not to mention the energy damage isn’t significant enough to really make just standing beside the opponent viable

I’m not sure when accessing power gain while your power is draining has ever been a utility, but maybe I’m wrong?

I’m definitely intrigued by this new playstyle that’s appearing with his power conservation. I’ve not seen enough to judge it yet. It’s interesting, but I’m not really sure where it’s useful

Etjama

Moleman

Primerprime5 said:

Rockypantherx said:

Yellowjacket is the best utility wise. But I’m worried about his damage being at a reasonable level

Terrax is in the middle of the pack with hood damage and somewhat lacklustre utility. I mean it’s literally Kiev’s utility without the chance to shrug off debuffs

Kingpin will be loved by the big yellow numbers cult. His only good utility is the 100% chance to shrug off with the hood synergy. Which is very powerful, but it requires a synergy. Without thy synergy, he seems like skill domino to me. Big numbers, no reliable utility

That leaves mole man. Has some great utility m. Shock immunity, debuff shrug off guaranteed, true accuracy from first second of the fight, ability to gain openings through his unstoppable, gains tankiness with monster mass, has lots of debuffs. And can keep 100% uptime on guaranteed crits and bleeds

The only thing I’m hesitant on with mole man is whether his damage is good enough outside of frenzy, since he loses almost all utility in that state. A major flaw in the champ design that I really wish was corrected but oh well

Agree with most of this, but Terrax doesn't have Hood levels of damage. In Kam's video he produces 10-12k mediums and 45k Heavies. That doesn't look like Hood damage to me. As for lackluster utility, what do you mean? Triple immunities, Armour Break, on-demand Indestructibility, access to both Physical and unavoidable Energy damage and Power Gain are very solid utilities that can help in a lot of scenarios. The ability to manipulate his own Defensive Combat Rate is completely unique in the game, and can help out a lot of more experienced players. Don't forget, if played right he'll essentially never lose Power on his Specials, allowing him to spam Sp2s infinitely. He'll definitely end up in the upper echelon of Cosmic Champs.

Pretty sure he meant "good" damage and not "hood" damage, my dude. And his utility just isn't all that meaningful. Half the Cosmic class can armor break and his indestructible quite honestly isn't great. The immunities and damage are nice though.

Texas_11

YellowJacket

I think yellow jacket will have some nice damage and utility, he will be very similar to void. Not quick kills but high utility

Unknown

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Gardener

Terrax

UPDATE: yellow jacket i still last (as he was from the begining),Terrax has moved from first to second, Kingpin has gone from 2nd to first and Moleman has kept 3rd

Legendary_Poey

Moleman

I would say Moleman has the most practical applications to endgame fights. Great for evade and autoblock matches.

Terrax is your lane clearer with good immunities that is probably the best at a generic matchup. Armor breaks will be good km and emma.

Kingpin will be the debuff shrug character that thrives in those matchups. Otherwise nothing super special, probably will still have decent to good damage when built right outside those matchups.

Yellowjacket probably won't be anything crazy, but will be a solid heal reversal option with slow and consistent damage regardless in longer fights of the matchup (unless there is purify).

Overall I'm looking forward to playing terrax the most out of the 4 cause his special spam playstyle looks fun.

Of course this all speculation as things could turn out to be different on release.

Legendary_Poey

Moleman

Rockypantherx said:

Primerprime5 said:

Rockypantherx said:

Yellowjacket is the best utility wise. But I’m worried about his damage being at a reasonable level

Terrax is in the middle of the pack with hood damage and somewhat lacklustre utility. I mean it’s literally Kiev’s utility without the chance to shrug off debuffs

Kingpin will be loved by the big yellow numbers cult. His only good utility is the 100% chance to shrug off with the hood synergy. Which is very powerful, but it requires a synergy. Without thy synergy, he seems like skill domino to me. Big numbers, no reliable utility

That leaves mole man. Has some great utility m. Shock immunity, debuff shrug off guaranteed, true accuracy from first second of the fight, ability to gain openings through his unstoppable, gains tankiness with monster mass, has lots of debuffs. And can keep 100% uptime on guaranteed crits and bleeds

The only thing I’m hesitant on with mole man is whether his damage is good enough outside of frenzy, since he loses almost all utility in that state. A major flaw in the champ design that I really wish was corrected but oh well

Agree with most of this, but Terrax doesn't have Hood levels of damage. In Kam's video he produces 10-12k mediums and 45k Heavies. That doesn't look like Hood damage to me. As for lackluster utility, what do you mean? Triple immunities, Armour Break, on-demand Indestructibility, access to both Physical and unavoidable Energy damage and Power Gain are very solid utilities that can help in a lot of scenarios. The ability to manipulate his own Defensive Combat Rate is completely unique in the game, and can help out a lot of more experienced players. Don't forget, if played right he'll essentially never lose Power on his Specials, allowing him to spam Sp2s infinitely. He'll definitely end up in the upper echelon of Cosmic Champs.

Sorry that should say good damage and Korg’s utility. It’s just damn autocorrect.

Terrax is only double immune? Bleed and shock. Both great immunities, and almost permanent armour break is excellent. The indestructibility is nice, but since it can’t tank SP3’s, it’s more sustainability than utility. Still good, just not what you’re going to use the champ for. Physical and energy damage don’t mean much unless a champ does exclusively one or the other. Not to mention the energy damage isn’t significant enough to really make just standing beside the opponent viable

I’m not sure when accessing power gain while your power is draining has ever been a utility, but maybe I’m wrong?

I’m definitely intrigued by this new playstyle that’s appearing with his power conservation. I’ve not seen enough to judge it yet. It’s interesting, but I’m not really sure where it’s useful

His third immunity is immune to power control against metals. Niche, but does have some uses against that node that drains your power every 30 seconds, power alternator, special lock nodes, etc. Probably will be most often used against warlock, can run wp and you won't be power drained and therefore no degen.

Vendemiaire

I have all of them except Terrax but I'm really hoping that Mole Man's buff will make him really useful in a lot of content outside of AW Defense. I love using the guy and his awesome animation is a waste if he isn't good. I kinda hate it when Kabam short champions to their full potential especially champions with cool kits but aren't really efficient. If they're gonna be really good then tune up the difficulty and interactions.

Invicta_Hellion

Kingpin

Kabam knows I have one. But you cant really tell untill gameplay comes out