Suicides for current meta

Dwhalen8554

I am finding that with the health pools of cavalier difficulty and act 6.3 and beyond that Suicides is not really worth it anymore. Of course it has its uses in some fights/paths and of course makes some champs insane but I am just finding it more and more difficult justifying keeping them on to benefit a few characters and get through arena way quicker.

Curious to see if there are any other heavy suicide players out there like me who have been keeping them off quite a bit lately due to the current content and meta of the game. One thing I think could be done differently is adjusting recoil to maybe be a lesser percentage of health per special? Just a thought. Curious to see what others think.

I was really hoping there would be something in the roadmap about masteries because if resets didn’t cost anything I would certainly use them a lot more. Not sure I would even recommend new players going for them anymore.

Are you a player who has suicides unlocked who uses them more often than not?

Why?

TheBair123

No

No, I don't have them. Yes, they are good for the current meta. If you told me to name the top champs in the game, it would consist of champs like Omega Red, Magneto, Corvus, CMM, CGR, and others. Every single one of those champs have some sort of upside with suicides. I think if you don't have willpower, suicides are not worth it. With willpower, some people heal more than they lose and they gain the attack increase. I've never been a fan of recoil, but there are some champs that are SP3 spam that it works for.

Etjama

Yes

I unlocked them a while ago. So far I've only turned them off once for some Ronan cheesing in Act 7 then immediately turned them back on afterwards. For one thing, they just make day to day life so much easier. I can actually grind arena now, AQ doesn't take nearly as long, neither does grinding out the current EQ's. I'll tell you straight up that the amount of items I've had to use because of suicides is nothing compared to the amount of units alone that I've been able to gain because of them.

And if you think about all the top champs in the game, most benefit greatly from suicides. Quake, Ghost, OR, Mags, AA, Claire, Ægon, Corvus, CMM, CGR, CAIW, Warlock, G99, Guardian, and more are all great with them and easily outnumber the amount of top champs that just do not work well with suicides imo.

One thing I'd suggest is to run 3/3 coagulate. I run it and it allows me to use a lot of champs that people wouldn't necessarily call "suicide friendly". I can still use anyone that doesn't spam specials on a day to day basis.

Worknprogress

I pulled them from my daily use over a year ago and haven't missed them at all honestly. The only thing they have really affect on a day to day basis is arena imo. There are plenty of champs that do just fine without them and I like not dealing with recoil or limiting myself to a small pool of champs I don't particularly like using to begin with.

They're still perfectly viable though. It's just a question of do you want to use the same 5 or 6 champs for everything and how much do you mind recoil?

ItsDamien

Worknprogress said:

I pulled them from my daily use over a year ago and haven't missed them at all honestly. The only thing they have really affect on a day to day basis is arena imo. There are plenty of champs that do just fine without them and I like not dealing with recoil or limiting myself to a small pool of champs I don't particularly like using to begin with.

They're still perfectly viable though. It's just a question of do you want to use the same 5 or 6 champs for everything and how much do you mind recoil?

Pretty much this. I run suicides daily. I 100% 7.1 with them on. I run Cav EQ, UCEQ and Master EQ each month with them on. Grind arena with them on. But my choice of champs that won't die to them is limited, and while I would like to use more of my roster in general, I value the time save on the increased damage I gain.

As for recoil, I actually find that there's plenty of nodes nowadays to take advantage of willpower to regen the recoil damage, since there's a good amount that give you non damaging debuffs to heal from.

It's all personal preference at the end of the day, but it's viable to run them, and it's viable not to run them.

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Worknprogress

Dwhalen8554 said:

Etjama said:

I unlocked them a while ago. So far I've only turned them off once for some Ronan cheesing in Act 7 then immediately turned them back on afterwards. For one thing, they just make day to day life so much easier. I can actually grind arena now, AQ doesn't take nearly as long, neither does grinding out the current EQ's. I'll tell you straight up that the amount of items I've had to use because of suicides is nothing compared to the amount of units alone that I've been able to gain because of them.

And if you think about all the top champs in the game, most benefit greatly from suicides. Quake, Ghost, OR, Mags, AA, Claire, Ægon, Corvus, CMM, CGR, CAIW, Warlock, G99, Guardian, and more are all great with them and easily outnumber the amount of top champs that just do not work well with suicides imo.

One thing I'd suggest is to run 3/3 coagulate. I run it and it allows me to use a lot of champs that people wouldn't necessarily call "suicide friendly". I can still use anyone that doesn't spam specials on a day to day basis.

I haven’t unlocked coagulate yet but am definitely thinking about it now because I find the game a lot more fun with them on as well

It helps but that's also 3 mastery points lost somewhere else. I always found it hard to get the points I wanted in mystic dispersion when trying to fit in coagulate. Odds are if you run suicides all the time you don't care about mystics that much to begin with though as there's really only one that's particularly good with them.

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ItsDamien

Dwhalen8554 said:

ItsDamien said:

Worknprogress said:

I pulled them from my daily use over a year ago and haven't missed them at all honestly. The only thing they have really affect on a day to day basis is arena imo. There are plenty of champs that do just fine without them and I like not dealing with recoil or limiting myself to a small pool of champs I don't particularly like using to begin with.

They're still perfectly viable though. It's just a question of do you want to use the same 5 or 6 champs for everything and how much do you mind recoil?

Pretty much this. I run suicides daily. I 100% 7.1 with them on. I run Cav EQ, UCEQ and Master EQ each month with them on. Grind arena with them on. But my choice of champs that won't die to them is limited, and while I would like to use more of my roster in general, I value the time save on the increased damage I gain.

As for recoil, I actually find that there's plenty of nodes nowadays to take advantage of willpower to regen the recoil damage, since there's a good amount that give you non damaging debuffs to heal from.

It's all personal preference at the end of the day, but it's viable to run them, and it's viable not to run them.

Do you run coagulate to limit the bleed effect at all.
? I love having them on but don’t trying to see if others are doing things differently than the way I was.

I run one point in coagulate for OR and Red Magneto for the most part, and it benefits other champs a little that way as well. But the one point makes them both fully bleed immune while still gaining the full benefit of willpower healing on them.

Etjama

Yes

This is my setup:



I never find myself wanting more than 3/5 in MD so it works great for me. What can mess with this setup is if you want to put some points into Despair or Deep Wounds, maybe even something like Resonate. That's when you've gotta decide if you wanna drop MD or Coag, or maybe even both. It's all up to personal preference, game progression, and what your roster looks like.

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Judge_Pain

Worknprogress said:

Dwhalen8554 said:

Etjama said:

I unlocked them a while ago. So far I've only turned them off once for some Ronan cheesing in Act 7 then immediately turned them back on afterwards. For one thing, they just make day to day life so much easier. I can actually grind arena now, AQ doesn't take nearly as long, neither does grinding out the current EQ's. I'll tell you straight up that the amount of items I've had to use because of suicides is nothing compared to the amount of units alone that I've been able to gain because of them.

And if you think about all the top champs in the game, most benefit greatly from suicides. Quake, Ghost, OR, Mags, AA, Claire, Ægon, Corvus, CMM, CGR, CAIW, Warlock, G99, Guardian, and more are all great with them and easily outnumber the amount of top champs that just do not work well with suicides imo.

One thing I'd suggest is to run 3/3 coagulate. I run it and it allows me to use a lot of champs that people wouldn't necessarily call "suicide friendly". I can still use anyone that doesn't spam specials on a day to day basis.

I haven’t unlocked coagulate yet but am definitely thinking about it now because I find the game a lot more fun with them on as well

It helps but that's also 3 mastery points lost somewhere else. I always found it hard to get the points I wanted in mystic dispersion when trying to fit in coagulate. Odds are if you run suicides all the time you don't care about mystics that much to begin with though as there's really only one that's particularly good with them.

I run max coag and suicides plus 4 in MD. Requires the despair tree to not be utilized, but it allowed me to run suicide champs and mystics which I had both in abundance. And then Claire graced the contest and I don't know if i could go back now...

Worknprogress

Etjama said:

This is my setup:



I never find myself wanting more than 3/5 in MD so it works great for me. What can mess with this setup is if you want to put some points into Despair or Deep Wounds, maybe even something like Resonate. That's when you've gotta decide if you wanna drop MD or Coag, or maybe even both. It's all up to personal preference, game progression, and what your roster looks like.

I run max DW and despair as well as MD 4

TitoBandito187

I go back and forth. Even tho quake fights are longer without them, she is always topped up in case of a slip up. She loses 10% from bleed each fight with suicides so I don't like them on her as she will lose life. My other top champs are NF, 2 dooms, 2 Human torch, void, colossus and a lot of other ones that need specials or just aren't suicide friendly (rhulk, she hulk, venom, and Aegon could go either way during ramp up)

I'd much rather spam specials with 2x doom, fury, 2 x torch, void, venom, sunspot and colossus than run suicides with my warlock, corvus, bwcv, ghost, magneto, omega and guardian. Almost all of them hit plenty hard without suicides and can then throw a lot more specials to bring health pools down (except corvus - he truly needs suicides against big health pools) without taking a hit on health.

Then, there's war. I'm not in an elite ally so I don't have to remove suicides, but if that's required, it gets expensive and annoying.

Neither way is wrong or right. Some scenarios will benefit with or without (Fighting a stacked void with them on can be deadly). It really boils down to your own preference. I prefer just maxing glass cannon and adding points to assassin and courage. That way, you get to throw specials all day long and get an attack increase when your health is lower.

Etjama

Yes

Worknprogress said:

Etjama said:

This is my setup:



I never find myself wanting more than 3/5 in MD so it works great for me. What can mess with this setup is if you want to put some points into Despair or Deep Wounds, maybe even something like Resonate. That's when you've gotta decide if you wanna drop MD or Coag, or maybe even both. It's all up to personal preference, game progression, and what your roster looks like.

I run max DW and despair as well as MD 4

That's what I see myself running if I wasn't running suicides. You know where you used to put those points when you used to run them?

DNA3000

Dwhalen8554 said:

ItsDamien said:

Worknprogress said:

I pulled them from my daily use over a year ago and haven't missed them at all honestly. The only thing they have really affect on a day to day basis is arena imo. There are plenty of champs that do just fine without them and I like not dealing with recoil or limiting myself to a small pool of champs I don't particularly like using to begin with.

They're still perfectly viable though. It's just a question of do you want to use the same 5 or 6 champs for everything and how much do you mind recoil?

Pretty much this. I run suicides daily. I 100% 7.1 with them on. I run Cav EQ, UCEQ and Master EQ each month with them on. Grind arena with them on. But my choice of champs that won't die to them is limited, and while I would like to use more of my roster in general, I value the time save on the increased damage I gain.

As for recoil, I actually find that there's plenty of nodes nowadays to take advantage of willpower to regen the recoil damage, since there's a good amount that give you non damaging debuffs to heal from.

It's all personal preference at the end of the day, but it's viable to run them, and it's viable not to run them.

Do you run coagulate to limit the bleed effect at all? I love having them on but I am trying to see if others are doing things differently than the way I am

At the moment I'm running 3 GC, 1 Recoil, 3 DE, 3 WP, 3 Coag, and 2 Suture. I suspect there aren't many people doing that (the two in suture are sort of parked there while I think about where I really want them to go).

I find it balanced enough to be worth the help in arena and most content, without being too punishing in higher end content and AQ/AW, so I don't have to keep switching it around, and I can use pretty much whatever champ I want most of the time. I hate switching masteries around, at least in the short term, so I am less trying to optimize masteries for peak performance as I am trying to squeeze out what I can without impairing my gameplay too much.

Unknown

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Worknprogress

Etjama said:

Worknprogress said:

Etjama said:

This is my setup:



I never find myself wanting more than 3/5 in MD so it works great for me. What can mess with this setup is if you want to put some points into Despair or Deep Wounds, maybe even something like Resonate. That's when you've gotta decide if you wanna drop MD or Coag, or maybe even both. It's all up to personal preference, game progression, and what your roster looks like.

I run max DW and despair as well as MD 4

That's what I see myself running if I wasn't running suicides. You know where you used to put those points when you used to run them?

Don't think I ever managed to get more than a point into coag or will power just bc I have a hard time giving up even despair and absolutely won't budge on DW as I use Nick an absolute ton. MD was the sacrificial lamb for me and I just barely used mystics. This was also pre-Doom and before the mystic class got a massive injection of quality. I'd have a very hard time going back for any length of time now considering how much I use Doom and Sorcerer in particular

Etjama

Yes

DNA3000 said:

Dwhalen8554 said:

ItsDamien said:

Worknprogress said:

I pulled them from my daily use over a year ago and haven't missed them at all honestly. The only thing they have really affect on a day to day basis is arena imo. There are plenty of champs that do just fine without them and I like not dealing with recoil or limiting myself to a small pool of champs I don't particularly like using to begin with.

They're still perfectly viable though. It's just a question of do you want to use the same 5 or 6 champs for everything and how much do you mind recoil?

Pretty much this. I run suicides daily. I 100% 7.1 with them on. I run Cav EQ, UCEQ and Master EQ each month with them on. Grind arena with them on. But my choice of champs that won't die to them is limited, and while I would like to use more of my roster in general, I value the time save on the increased damage I gain.

As for recoil, I actually find that there's plenty of nodes nowadays to take advantage of willpower to regen the recoil damage, since there's a good amount that give you non damaging debuffs to heal from.

It's all personal preference at the end of the day, but it's viable to run them, and it's viable not to run them.

Do you run coagulate to limit the bleed effect at all? I love having them on but I am trying to see if others are doing things differently than the way I am

At the moment I'm running 3 GC, 1 Recoil, 3 DE, 3 WP, 3 Coag, and 2 Suture. I suspect there aren't many people doing that (the two in suture are sort of parked there while I think about where I really want them to go).

I find it balanced enough to be worth the help in arena and most content, without being too punishing in higher end content and AQ/AW, so I don't have to keep switching it around, and I can use pretty much whatever champ I want most of the time. I hate switching masteries around, at least in the short term, so I am less trying to optimize masteries for peak performance as I am trying to squeeze out what I can without impairing my gameplay too much.

That's where I'm at. Even with suicides, I still find myself bringing "non-suicide friendly" champs into war. I bring in HT or Doom quite a bit and they're still completely healthy after I use them for their 2 or 3 fights with coag. Overall, my day-to-day MCoC life is so much easier and suicides don't give me many problems when working my way through the hard content. Quite balanced for me.

Etjama

Yes

Worknprogress said:

Etjama said:

Worknprogress said:

Etjama said:

This is my setup:



I never find myself wanting more than 3/5 in MD so it works great for me. What can mess with this setup is if you want to put some points into Despair or Deep Wounds, maybe even something like Resonate. That's when you've gotta decide if you wanna drop MD or Coag, or maybe even both. It's all up to personal preference, game progression, and what your roster looks like.

I run max DW and despair as well as MD 4

That's what I see myself running if I wasn't running suicides. You know where you used to put those points when you used to run them?

Don't think I ever managed to get more than a point into coag or will power just bc I have a hard time giving up even despair and absolutely won't budge on DW as I use Nick an absolute ton. MD was the sacrificial lamb for me and I just barely used mystics. This was also pre-Doom and before the mystic class got a massive injection of quality. I'd have a very hard time going back for any length of time now considering how much I use Doom and Sorcerer in particular

Yeah, that's understandable. I can't imagine not running MD now that I have the great new Mystics. I can easily see myself going without it back then though.

NerdNerdNerd1

Yes

Quake Ghost corvus and aa are suicide friendly, they are the 4 best champs in the game.

H3t3r

Y'all aint ready for my setup

FiiNCH

Yes

I voted yes because I did the entirety of act 6 (completion), and 7.1 (completion +roughly 60% exploration) with suicides on. My main champs were ghost, OR, BWCV and warlock m/g2099.

I got bored of using the same champs all the time and since pulling doom earlier this month, I’ve switched them off to play other champs and finish act 7. I have to say I’m enjoying the game a lot at the moment as I’m not restricted for champ choices.

That being said, I never felt like I had to turn them off because of the meta. If you run top tier AW then switching them off from time to time is required, but at the end of the day, it’s comes down to the champs you have in your roster as to the suitability of using/having suicides.

rvcubing

it sucks when you dont have some counters tho, and if youdidnt run suicides you would be fine. Like I run suicides and I'm stuck at 6.4.1 iceman, I have colossus but I run suicides so his heal block will just wreck me. i wish I had ghost lol.

Aaronc94

Yes

I think there are more top tier champs that are suicide friendly than not, so imo suicides are the best setup u can have, Ghost, Quake, Corvus, Omega, Magneto, Aegon which are some of the best champions in game and others like Hit Monkey, Claire Voyant, Magik, Guardian, Namor, Warlock, Guillotine 99, Cosmic Ghost Rider, Captain Marvel Movie, Domino, Colossus take a good advantage from them, and those who doesn't as Archangel, Torch, Captain America IW, Doom, Fury, Sunspot, Symbiote Supreme are still really great if don't use them as your main champion, they totally worth it for me, i find the game really boring without them, i rarely turn them off

Seraphion

No

Since I play high Tier wars I cant really run them without ruining myself. For every def placement suicides need to be off. Switching them on/off costs ~ 120 units every time.

Without this I would prob run them non-stop esp with my R3 Ghost.

Etjama

Yes

Seraphion said:

Since I play high Tier wars I cant really run them without ruining myself. For every def placement suicides need to be off. Switching them on/off costs ~ 120 units every time.

Without this I would prob run them non-stop esp with my R3 Ghost.

120? What the hell? Are you changing your whole mastery setup for defense? It would take me 53 units to switch off my offensive masteries, fill it back up to recoil, place my champs, and then fill in the 7 points in Recoil, Double Edge, and Liquid Courage.

Unknown

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Gardener

Suicides are still relevant i wouldn't say for osme champs but for like Omega Red it is one of the most relevant things for him

Gildenlow

No

That's a really complex question you're asking.

I think that for summoners who are finding their way through act 4/5/6/7 (I mean completing and trying to explore) suicides could be an amazing unit saver if you have the right champions. Just aas an example, I used to use my 5 stars version of ghost with full synergy everywhere, and I destroyed anything. This being said, if you're a ghost, corvus, omega red, any other suicide friendly champ, then it's the most obvious choice.

For me, at the moment, suicides are useless since the "new" wave of champions (I mean 2019/2020 released champions) actually require some special attack use to be great, as an example, we all love Dr Doom as the best mystic champ, and he is just almost useless with suicides. Also when you're focused on AW, you just can't put on deffense with suicides, and FOR ME it's to expensive to put them on and off every war, besides as a heavy quake user they just end up killing me softly.

So that's my opinion and my experience, right now I love using champions like Prof X, Apocalypse, Cosmic ghost rider and they just don't go that fine with suicides because of recoil.

Also I just got Stryfe from the featured arena and he isn't that suicide friendly.

H3t3r