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A philosophical question

ReferenceReference Posts: 1,783 ★★★★
When there is something called “unblockable immune”, can we still regard a champ’s SP as unblockable?

p.s. bleed, poison,....., shock are DoT and thus immunity are available. Unblockable is not DoT.

Comments

  • ReferenceReference Posts: 1,783 ★★★★
    Qacob said:

    I'm not going to lie I don't really understand the question.

    If you mean if a champion can block unblockable specials (which actually already exists in mordo and maybe Mr Sinister I'm not sure) then the special attack will still be "unblockable" it can just be blocked by that specific champion.

    Sorry my bad for not saying clearly. Normally you can dex / evade a special. e.g. You can dex Dr Doom’s SP1 even his SP1 is unblockable.

    Now what you see in Super-skrull is when Dr Doom launch SP1, Super-shrull block it with “unblockable immune” buff. In that case, is Dr Doom’s SP1 still be regarded as unblockable?
  • QacobQacob Posts: 1,631 ★★★★★
    Reference said:

    Qacob said:

    I'm not going to lie I don't really understand the question.

    If you mean if a champion can block unblockable specials (which actually already exists in mordo and maybe Mr Sinister I'm not sure) then the special attack will still be "unblockable" it can just be blocked by that specific champion.

    Sorry my bad for not saying clearly. Normally you can dex / evade a special. e.g. You can dex Dr Doom’s SP1 even his SP1 is unblockable.

    Now what you see in Super-skrull is when Dr Doom launch SP1, Super-shrull block it with “unblockable immune” buff. In that case, is Dr Doom’s SP1 still be regarded as unblockable?
    Yes, I imagine so, it's just that it can be blocked by certain champions. At least I think that's the case, but don't quote me!
  • ReferenceReference Posts: 1,783 ★★★★
    Qacob said:

    Reference said:

    Qacob said:

    I'm not going to lie I don't really understand the question.

    If you mean if a champion can block unblockable specials (which actually already exists in mordo and maybe Mr Sinister I'm not sure) then the special attack will still be "unblockable" it can just be blocked by that specific champion.

    Sorry my bad for not saying clearly. Normally you can dex / evade a special. e.g. You can dex Dr Doom’s SP1 even his SP1 is unblockable.

    Now what you see in Super-skrull is when Dr Doom launch SP1, Super-shrull block it with “unblockable immune” buff. In that case, is Dr Doom’s SP1 still be regarded as unblockable?
    Yes, I imagine so, it's just that it can be blocked by certain champions. At least I think that's the case, but don't quote me!
    Normally when a champ can induce poison/bleed/coldslap/... whatever, these are “DoT” and such DoT won’t affect those DoT immune champ(s). Thus it is logical. However, unblockable is not a DoT and it supposed to be unblockable for all (again you can dex an unblockable). Now Kabam created unblockable immune, so unblockable become DoT?
  • Sarvanga1_Sarvanga1_ Posts: 3,519 ★★★★★
    Reference said:

    Qacob said:

    Reference said:

    Qacob said:

    I'm not going to lie I don't really understand the question.

    If you mean if a champion can block unblockable specials (which actually already exists in mordo and maybe Mr Sinister I'm not sure) then the special attack will still be "unblockable" it can just be blocked by that specific champion.

    Sorry my bad for not saying clearly. Normally you can dex / evade a special. e.g. You can dex Dr Doom’s SP1 even his SP1 is unblockable.

    Now what you see in Super-skrull is when Dr Doom launch SP1, Super-shrull block it with “unblockable immune” buff. In that case, is Dr Doom’s SP1 still be regarded as unblockable?
    Yes, I imagine so, it's just that it can be blocked by certain champions. At least I think that's the case, but don't quote me!
    Normally when a champ can induce poison/bleed/coldslap/... whatever, these are “DoT” and such DoT won’t affect those DoT immune champ(s). Thus it is logical. However, unblockable is not a DoT and it supposed to be unblockable for all (again you can dex an unblockable). Now Kabam created unblockable immune, so unblockable become DoT?
    The word immune is not only used for DOT. It is used for negating any effect in the game. Like you can be reverse control immune and ability accuracy reduction immune.
  • ReferenceReference Posts: 1,783 ★★★★
    edited February 6
    Kerneas said:

    That depends what you call unblockable:

    1) NO WAY of being blocked? Then Mr. Sinister demolished this term and it doesnt exist anymore

    2) status efect that says "this attack can not be blocled unless stated otherwise"

    Also whats philosophical about this? I call this ethymology at the very best, but it isn't philosophy.

    Yes my focus is on “unblockable immune” term, which is not applicable to Mr. Sinister

    1) When Doom fire SP1, Mr Sinister get hit even he block the attack, he just regen the health but it doesn’t mean he is unblockable immune. If your SP is high enough to bring Sinister’s health to zero, he’s dead and no more regeneration.

    2) There is no such description as you created in Doom’s SP:


    If you don’t regards this as philosophical, how about naming it as paradox.
  • AleorAleor Posts: 2,561 ★★★★
    Qacob said:

    I'm not going to lie I don't really understand the question.

    If you mean if a champion can block unblockable specials (which actually already exists in mordo and maybe Mr Sinister I'm not sure) then the special attack will still be "unblockable" it can just be blocked by that specific champion.

    @Qacob
    I guess it's about champs, who can block unblockable attacks, i.e. those attacks can be blocked and so are not unblockable
  • QacobQacob Posts: 1,631 ★★★★★
    Aleor said:

    Qacob said:

    I'm not going to lie I don't really understand the question.

    If you mean if a champion can block unblockable specials (which actually already exists in mordo and maybe Mr Sinister I'm not sure) then the special attack will still be "unblockable" it can just be blocked by that specific champion.

    @Qacob
    I guess it's about champs, who can block unblockable attacks, i.e. those attacks can be blocked and so are not unblockable
    But they are still "unblockable" attacks. It's just that a certain few can ignore this effect, right?
  • I think OP trying to ask if Unblockable is now considered a DoT because there is now an immunity to it, is misapplying what DoT stands for (it does not just mean anything which is a Debuff for which there can occasionally be immunities).

    “Damage Over Time” (as in, during the Debuff, you lose some Health points at a certain rate over a period of time of the Debuff). So no, Unblockable is still not a DoT, even though there is an immunity to it now.

    Take Stun as another example. It is NOT a DoT, although yes there are Stun Immune cases out there.

    ———
    Now, if you’re asking does the word “Unblockable” still pop up under Doom ? And maybe, does a corresponding “Immune” pop up under Super Skrull ? That would be interesting, but immaterial as to the outcome of the attack (which should be allowed to be blocked in that case).
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 12,022 Guardian
    Reference said:

    Qacob said:

    I'm not going to lie I don't really understand the question.

    If you mean if a champion can block unblockable specials (which actually already exists in mordo and maybe Mr Sinister I'm not sure) then the special attack will still be "unblockable" it can just be blocked by that specific champion.

    Sorry my bad for not saying clearly. Normally you can dex / evade a special. e.g. You can dex Dr Doom’s SP1 even his SP1 is unblockable.

    Now what you see in Super-skrull is when Dr Doom launch SP1, Super-shrull block it with “unblockable immune” buff. In that case, is Dr Doom’s SP1 still be regarded as unblockable?
    I haven't seen this interaction myself, but are you sure Super Skrull is showing "unblockable immune" and not "unblockable" and "immune" as two separate call-outs?

    Immunity is a property where the champion is unaffected by an effect. "Unblockable" is an effect on the attacker that makes their attacks unblockable, it is not an effect on the target that makes them unable to block attacks. So while it is theoretically possible for a champion to be 'unblockable immune" that would only mean they would be unable to benefit from an unblockable effect. It would not prevent them from blocking incoming attacks.

    Red Guardian is immune to buffs, so he is technically immune to unblockable buffs. If there is a node that provides the player an unblockable buff, Red Guardian would be immune to that buff, and thus unable to become unblockable from that node. But if they were fighting something with unblockable attacks, that immunity would have no relevance to those attacks. They would still be unblockable, so long as the defender on that node was able to benefit from that buff.
  • ReferenceReference Posts: 1,783 ★★★★
    Let me say again: Unblockable immune, unblockable immune, unblockable immune




  • IWCIWC Posts: 103 ★★
    Reference said:

    Let me say again: Unblockable immune, unblockable immune, unblockable immune




    I do believe that you may need to make your question clearer so that people can even attempt to answer the question on whether something can truly be unblockable if it can be blocked. Much like the question of whether God can create a rock so heavy that even he himself cannot lift, your question looks more focused on whether the term logically contradicts itself.

    As most of these statements are usually invalid arguments to begin with, the best starting point, is to frame it within the game context. As such, by addressing that Unblockable Immune within the game is to address that you are allowed to block an attack which has been deemed unblockable in the first place, and hence granting the user (Super Skrull), the ability to block it. Whether this makes the initial attack not actually unblockable, would not be relevant in the context of someone who may be simply trying to avoid getting hit by Doom Sp1 and triggering Stubborn in AW (thank god, that's gone by the way).

    Though personally, I do not think that the MCOC forum is the best place to be discussing paradoxes.
  • Xva23Xva23 Posts: 334 ★★
    My head hurts...
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 12,022 Guardian
    Reference said:

    Let me say again: Unblockable immune, unblockable immune, unblockable immune

    I see. This seems to be due to the node he's on: the node on the Cavalier map grants him the ability to block Unblockable special attacks.

    The answer to your question is that in the game, an "unblockable special" is a special attack that has been flagged to be unblockable. The game prioritizes the node that allows the blocking of unblockable specials, so unblockable specials can be blocked.

    This isn't really a question of philosophy, more of nomenclature. The game calls Doom's specials unblockable to communicate to the player that they are flagged with the property of being normally unblockable, not asserting the declaration that they cannot ever be blocked. The English we see is a translation of what the game engine is being told, and it is a colloquial and imperfect translation.

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