Well, I freaking loved this series. Not surprised by what happened with Walker. Loved the way Sam proved he really is the successor to Rogers. Filled up a bit at Bucky going to tell the old man the truth about his son. Loved the action scene with the helicopter. Can't help wondering what's next after that mid-credits scene.
This series exceeded my expectations. Marvel did not shy away from the tough issues this comic tackled way before current... without being too heavy handed. Falcon became a MCU star right before our eyes. And WS showed how much he has grown as a person. The Power Broker angle felt rushed and incomplete but overall? I'm giving this show a 10 out of 10.
The action scenes were on point. I really enjoyed it.
A lot of people predicted the twist weeks ago, KDoggg, so I dunno how you can say it felt rushed.
As for what's next, Captain America 4. THR are reporting Matt Spellman's writing it.
I've been here for each episode. Rushed doesn't mean "nobody saw it coming." Rushed... as in slapped together quickly. No time for revealing flashbacks. Just 5 seconds of banter.
You have every right to disagree. But you'd be wrong. 🤣
A lot of people predicted the twist weeks ago, KDoggg, so I dunno how you can say it felt rushed.
As for what's next, Captain America 4. THR are reporting Matt Spellman's writing it.
I've been here for each episode. Rushed doesn't mean "nobody saw it coming." Rushed... as in slapped together quickly. No time for revealing flashbacks. Just 5 seconds of banter.
You have every right to disagree. But you'd be wrong. 🤣
I really liked this show and the finale specifically A few opinions:
The power broker twist was super obvious, I guessed it within like 5 minutes of Sharon appearing. I really liked how the story was, except for that speech at the end. It was a little much in my opinion. Karli was definitely a terrorist. I was on the side of the relocation program lol
Also, John Walker may be one of my new favorite MCU characters as US Agent ngl
The series was fun but could have been better. The twist was obvious and really seemed forced forced. Not a fan of it. Also, other than the racism issue, I wish they delved deeper into some of the subjects they tackled. We never find out why GRC aren't giving resources or how moving people will help that, no all we get is that "it's too complicated." Zemo is busted out of prison and there is quite literally no proper consequence for Bucky or Sam. Also, Episode 2 made them really petty. It felt like some forced conflict with John. The villains haven't even been properly established yet and Bucky and Sam refuse to work with John but they think it's okay then to bust Zemo out of prison? I mean they aren't even giving John a chance, how would they know he's good or not as Captain America. Another problem I had was that each episode felt incomplete without the backing series. Each episode can't stand on its own. With Wandavision, I felt a sense of closure after an episode, satisfied. After the end of every episode of FaWS, I was like "that's it?" probably because in each episode, there was some conflict/problem resolved with each episode, whether you're talking about the dinner-party in episode 1, birth of the twins in the 3rd episode, etc. I wish FaWS did something like that.
I did enjoy however Sam and Bucky's banter. Wyatt Russell was amazing as John Walker, one of my favorite characters. I loved Zemo. Episode 4 was by far my favorite, that ending unexpected and gutsy.
The series was fun but could have been better. The twist was obvious and really seemed forced forced. Not a fan of it. Also, other than the racism issue, I wish they delved deeper into some of the subjects they tackled. We never find out why GRC aren't giving resources or how moving people will help that, no all we get is that "it's too complicated." Zemo is busted out of prison and there is quite literally no proper consequence for Bucky or Sam. Also, Episode 2 made them really petty. It felt like some forced conflict with John. The villains haven't even been properly established yet and Bucky and Sam refuse to work with John but they think it's okay then to bust Zemo out of prison? I mean they aren't even giving John a chance, how would they know he's good or not as Captain America. Another problem I had was that each episode felt incomplete without the backing series. Each episode can't stand on its own. With Wandavision, I felt a sense of closure after an episode, satisfied. After the end of every episode of FaWS, I was like "that's it?" probably because in each episode, there was some conflict/problem resolved with each episode, whether you're talking about the dinner-party in episode 1, birth of the twins in the 3rd episode, etc. I wish FaWS did something like that.
I did enjoy however Sam and Bucky's banter. Wyatt Russell was amazing as John Walker, one of my favorite characters. I loved Zemo. Episode 4 was by far my favorite, that ending unexpected and gutsy.
Hard disagree on everything you said except for the last paragraph.
The series was fun but could have been better. The twist was obvious and really seemed forced forced. Not a fan of it. Also, other than the racism issue, I wish they delved deeper into some of the subjects they tackled. We never find out why GRC aren't giving resources or how moving people will help that, no all we get is that "it's too complicated." Zemo is busted out of prison and there is quite literally no proper consequence for Bucky or Sam. Also, Episode 2 made them really petty. It felt like some forced conflict with John. The villains haven't even been properly established yet and Bucky and Sam refuse to work with John but they think it's okay then to bust Zemo out of prison? I mean they aren't even giving John a chance, how would they know he's good or not as Captain America. Another problem I had was that each episode felt incomplete without the backing series. Each episode can't stand on its own. With Wandavision, I felt a sense of closure after an episode, satisfied. After the end of every episode of FaWS, I was like "that's it?" probably because in each episode, there was some conflict/problem resolved with each episode, whether you're talking about the dinner-party in episode 1, birth of the twins in the 3rd episode, etc. I wish FaWS did something like that.
I did enjoy however Sam and Bucky's banter. Wyatt Russell was amazing as John Walker, one of my favorite characters. I loved Zemo. Episode 4 was by far my favorite, that ending unexpected and gutsy.
Hard disagree on everything you said except for the last paragraph.
Kinda hard to disagree with the Flag-Smashers motives being weak, they're essentially anarchists. They don't have a greater ideal than 'smash the system'. But then, not all Marvel villains are great. I never get why everyone reckons Killmonger's great when he's basically an overgrown child throwing a tantrum; 'wah, I got abandoned as a kid and my dad died, I'mma smash the world and wreck Wakanda'.
Kinda hard to disagree with the Flag-Smashers motives being weak, they're essentially anarchists. They don't have a greater ideal than 'smash the system'. But then, not all Marvel villains are great. I never get why everyone reckons Killmonger's great when he's basically an overgrown child throwing a tantrum; 'wah, I got abandoned as a kid and my dad died, I'mma smash the world and wreck Wakanda'.
Yea Killmonger's dad died, abandoned by Wakanda and so wanted to change that. Flag-Smashers was basically Killmonger but without all the backdrop that made Killomnger amazing.
Edit:
I think the Flag-Smashers had a lot of potential but if they had spent more time building them up they would have been much better. Kinda dissatisfied with them.
Kinda hard to disagree with the Flag-Smashers motives being weak, they're essentially anarchists. They don't have a greater ideal than 'smash the system'. But then, not all Marvel villains are great. I never get why everyone reckons Killmonger's great when he's basically an overgrown child throwing a tantrum; 'wah, I got abandoned as a kid and my dad died, I'mma smash the world and wreck Wakanda'.
Killmonger's hatred for Wakanda had much more depth than you grasped. Wakanda is basically black utopia. A city in Africa that never got ravaged by colonialism and was therefore able to thrive. However, in all their success they chose to ignore the suffering of all the other people in Africa that were ravaged, kidnapped, enslaved, and oppressed. N'Jobu (his father) was apart of the royal family. He was stationed in America and he saw what was happening and he realized that with Wakanda's vast resources, they could actually do something to help. But using Wakandan resources to help foreigners was clearly something T'Chaka was against (BP's dad), so he had to go against the king to get those resources (with Klaw), and as we know, that crime led to N'Jobu dying. It's not just that his dad is dead, it's that the reason he died is because he was trying to do something to help oppressed African Americans (pre-civil rights movement), but Wakanda was too selfish to allow that. So he grew up hating Wakanda (especially the royal family) for that selfishness. He wasn't just trying to smash the world, he had a concrete goal he was working toward. Destroy the Wakandan royal family and then use Wakanda's vast resources to put the historically oppressed back on top of the world. Sadly, he chose the most violent and militaristic way there was because he viewed the issue only through his hate. That's why T'Challa decides in the end to still have Wakanda be more involved in the world, but through compassionate means instead. Because he understood the roots of Killmonger's hatred stemmed from Wakanda's own negligence. Additionally, Killmonger's issues with Wakanda was also a reflection of what it's like to be African American where you know your ancestry comes from Africa, but the connection has been wiped away by the destruction of the identities of slaves and there is no actual country in Africa that you can claim as heritage and no country that will claim you. As opposed to someone who knows their family comes from Greece or Spain or Russia, most African Americans have no idea outside of the vague entire continent of Africa. In a way, your heritage has abandoned you just like Wakanda abandoned Killmonger.
Similarly, the Flag-Smashers were about far more than "smash the system." First of all, the system was already smashed. They wanted to stop it from coming back. Second, as they say in the show, when 5 billion people got snapped out of existence the world obviously went into chaos. The sudden devastation led to the breakdown of a lot of things including government systems. The world finally stopped caring about borders and everyone just moved around the world freely, all trying to help each other cope and re-adjust to life after the first snap. Then 5 years later, the 5 billion people come back and the government decided "welp looks like we are back in business. okay all of you get out right now." That's what the relocation was. Taking all the people who survived the snap, had to cope with half the world population disappearing, did their best to move forward, found new homes, and going "yea whatever, that's all over now so go away." That's what the Flag-Smashers were fighting. They saw a unified world in the 5 years of the blip and they didn't want to see it all get thrown away. That's why they had so many supporters. Because even tho half the world population disappeared, half of the people remained and now the relocation was going to destroy the new world they managed to build in the rubble. That's what Sam meant by "you're about to have the same effect," comparing the forcible relocation effort to the Snap. Sam even said when he first tried talking Karli down "I agree with your fight, just not the way you're fighting it." They were terrorists because of their method, not their motive. Same with Killmonger. Their motives weren't weak, you just misunderstood them
Kinda hard to disagree with the Flag-Smashers motives being weak, they're essentially anarchists. They don't have a greater ideal than 'smash the system'. But then, not all Marvel villains are great. I never get why everyone reckons Killmonger's great when he's basically an overgrown child throwing a tantrum; 'wah, I got abandoned as a kid and my dad died, I'mma smash the world and wreck Wakanda'.
Killmonger's hatred for Wakanda had much more depth than you grasped. Wakanda is basically black utopia. A city in Africa that never got ravaged by colonialism and was therefore able to thrive. However, in all their success they chose to ignore the suffering of all the other people in Africa that were ravaged, kidnapped, enslaved, and oppressed. N'Jobu (his father) was apart of the royal family. He was stationed in America and he saw what was happening and he realized that with Wakanda's vast resources, they could actually do something to help. But using Wakandan resources to help foreigners was clearly something T'Chaka was against (BP's dad), so he had to go against the king to get those resources (with Klaw), and as we know, that crime led to N'Jobu dying. It's not just that his dad is dead, it's that the reason he died is because he was trying to do something to help oppressed African Americans (pre-civil rights movement), but Wakanda was too selfish to allow that. So he grew up hating Wakanda (especially the royal family) for that selfishness. He wasn't just trying to smash the world, he had a concrete goal he was working toward. Destroy the Wakandan royal family and then use Wakanda's vast resources to put the historically oppressed back on top of the world. Sadly, he chose the most violent and militaristic way there was because he viewed the issue only through his hate. That's why T'Challa decides in the end to still have Wakanda be more involved in the world, but through compassionate means instead. Because he understood the roots of Killmonger's hatred stemmed from Wakanda's own negligence. Additionally, Killmonger's issues with Wakanda was also a reflection of what it's like to be African American where you know your ancestry comes from Africa, but the connection has been wiped away by the destruction of the identities of slaves and there is no actual country in Africa that you can claim as heritage and no country that will claim you. As opposed to someone who knows their family comes from Greece or Spain or Russia, most African Americans have no idea outside of the vague entire continent of Africa. In a way, your heritage has abandoned you just like Wakanda abandoned Killmonger.
Similarly, the Flag-Smashers were about far more than "smash the system." First of all, the system was already smashed. They wanted to stop it from coming back. Second, as they say in the show, when 5 billion people got snapped out of existence the world obviously went into chaos. The sudden devastation led to the breakdown of a lot of things including government systems. The world finally stopped caring about borders and everyone just moved around the world freely, all trying to help each other cope and re-adjust to life after the first snap. Then 5 years later, the 5 billion people come back and the government decided "welp looks like we are back in business. okay all of you get out right now." That's what the relocation was. Taking all the people who survived the snap, had to cope with half the world population disappearing, did their best to move forward, found new homes, and going "yea whatever, that's all over now so go away." That's what the Flag-Smashers were fighting. They saw a unified world in the 5 years of the blip and they didn't want to see it all get thrown away. That's why they had so many supporters. Because even tho half the world population disappeared, half of the people remained and now the relocation was going to destroy the new world they managed to build in the rubble. That's what Sam meant by "you're about to have the same effect," comparing the forcible relocation effort to the Snap. Sam even said when he first tried talking Karli down "I agree with your fight, just not the way you're fighting it." They were terrorists because of their method, not their motive. Same with Killmonger. Their motives weren't weak, you just misunderstood them
I wish I could Like this, Insightful this, and Awesome this all at the same time. I settled for Insightful, but know that you’re getting the other two from me as well.
I really enjoyed the show. The finale didn’t really do it for me though. A lot of it was just fighting, which is fine, but I was enjoying the character stuff so much more. But the character stuff at the end, Sam’s speech and Bucky’s confession, were amazing
Pretty much every character in the show was incredible, but with two noteworthy exceptions.
Sharon Carter did a complete 180 in the final episode with very little setup. I kind of get it. She was abandoned by her country, family name tarnished, lost everyone, but it’s still a bit of a jump. Hopefully we see it fleshed out a little more
And the flagsmashers. They just didn’t work. At least we didn’t have mindless thugs and a leader like we normally do, the side characters were kind of fleshed out. But I didn’t hate them, nor did I sympathise with them. I think their best purpose was to serve as a dividing line between Walker and Sam in their ideologies
Of course, we had the removed pandemic plot, which might have saved them, but in their current state, they didn’t work unfortunately.
That said, Val was only in 2 scenes and blew it out the water, she was amazing. Walker was one of the most compelling characters we’ve had in the MCU. Bucky felt somewhat neglected but still had a good arc. Sam’s journey is some the best stuff in the entire MCU. They really did the work to explore and earn him the captain America title and what that really means. Isaiah Bradley was an excellent antithesis to Sam, but still got a satisfying ending
The Captain America suit is a bit cheesy but I still love it. The fight choreography with it in EP6 was top notch, and I loved all the callbacks.
So while it was a bit of a rushed and messy conclusion, I really enjoyed the show overall, and it did the same thing wandavision did. Made me care about characters that I was neutral towards before and got me deeply invested in their stories going forward
Not to mention all the beautiful Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers setup
I really enjoyed the show. The finale didn’t really do it for me though. A lot of it was just fighting, which is fine, but I was enjoying the character stuff so much more. But the character stuff at the end, Sam’s speech and Bucky’s confession, were amazing
Pretty much every character in the show was incredible, but with two noteworthy exceptions.
Sharon Carter did a complete 180 in the final episode with very little setup. I kind of get it. She was abandoned by her country, family name tarnished, lost everyone, but it’s still a bit of a jump. Hopefully we see it fleshed out a little more
And the flagsmashers. They just didn’t work. At least we didn’t have mindless thugs and a leader like we normally do, the side characters were kind of fleshed out. But I didn’t hate them, nor did I sympathise with them. I think their best purpose was to serve as a dividing line between Walker and Sam in their ideologies
Of course, we had the removed pandemic plot, which might have saved them, but in their current state, they didn’t work unfortunately.
That said, Val was only in 2 scenes and blew it out the water, she was amazing. Walker was one of the most compelling characters we’ve had in the MCU. Bucky felt somewhat neglected but still had a good arc. Sam’s journey is some the best stuff in the entire MCU. They really did the work to explore and earn him the captain America title and what that really means. Isaiah Bradley was an excellent antithesis to Sam, but still got a satisfying ending
The Captain America suit is a bit cheesy but I still love it. The fight choreography with it in EP6 was top notch, and I loved all the callbacks.
So while it was a bit of a rushed and messy conclusion, I really enjoyed the show overall, and it did the same thing wandavision did. Made me care about characters that I was neutral towards before and got me deeply invested in their stories going forward
Not to mention all the beautiful Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers setup
Pretty sure there’s at least a hint of Secret Invasion being setup as well.
Episode 4 was good the rest kind of sucked. Script was wooden af for the most part. Daniel bruhl looked embarrassed to be doing it. Felt like they knocked the whole thing up in a week. 🤷🏽♂️
Comments
"Whoa." 😮
I knew this was going to be the one where it hit the fan.
*waits for some misery-guts to disagree*
Marvel did not shy away from the tough issues this comic tackled way before current... without being too heavy handed.
Falcon became a MCU star right before our eyes. And WS showed how much he has grown as a person.
The Power Broker angle felt rushed and incomplete but overall? I'm giving this show a 10 out of 10.
The action scenes were on point. I really enjoyed it.
As for what's next, Captain America 4. THR are reporting Matt Spellman's writing it.
You have every right to disagree. But you'd be wrong. 🤣
A few opinions:
I really liked how the story was, except for that speech at the end. It was a little much in my opinion. Karli was definitely a terrorist. I was on the side of the relocation program lol
Also, John Walker may be one of my new favorite MCU characters as US Agent ngl
Also, other than the racism issue, I wish they delved deeper into some of the subjects they tackled. We never find out why GRC aren't giving resources or how moving people will help that, no all we get is that "it's too complicated." Zemo is busted out of prison and there is quite literally no proper consequence for Bucky or Sam. Also, Episode 2 made them really petty. It felt like some forced conflict with John. The villains haven't even been properly established yet and Bucky and Sam refuse to work with John but they think it's okay then to bust Zemo out of prison? I mean they aren't even giving John a chance, how would they know he's good or not as Captain America. Another problem I had was that each episode felt incomplete without the backing series. Each episode can't stand on its own. With Wandavision, I felt a sense of closure after an episode, satisfied. After the end of every episode of FaWS, I was like "that's it?" probably because in each episode, there was some conflict/problem resolved with each episode, whether you're talking about the dinner-party in episode 1, birth of the twins in the 3rd episode, etc. I wish FaWS did something like that.
I did enjoy however Sam and Bucky's banter. Wyatt Russell was amazing as John Walker, one of my favorite characters. I loved Zemo. Episode 4 was by far my favorite, that ending unexpected and gutsy.
Edit: Thnx AoA
Edit:
Killmonger's hatred for Wakanda had much more depth than you grasped. Wakanda is basically black utopia. A city in Africa that never got ravaged by colonialism and was therefore able to thrive. However, in all their success they chose to ignore the suffering of all the other people in Africa that were ravaged, kidnapped, enslaved, and oppressed. N'Jobu (his father) was apart of the royal family. He was stationed in America and he saw what was happening and he realized that with Wakanda's vast resources, they could actually do something to help. But using Wakandan resources to help foreigners was clearly something T'Chaka was against (BP's dad), so he had to go against the king to get those resources (with Klaw), and as we know, that crime led to N'Jobu dying. It's not just that his dad is dead, it's that the reason he died is because he was trying to do something to help oppressed African Americans (pre-civil rights movement), but Wakanda was too selfish to allow that. So he grew up hating Wakanda (especially the royal family) for that selfishness. He wasn't just trying to smash the world, he had a concrete goal he was working toward. Destroy the Wakandan royal family and then use Wakanda's vast resources to put the historically oppressed back on top of the world. Sadly, he chose the most violent and militaristic way there was because he viewed the issue only through his hate. That's why T'Challa decides in the end to still have Wakanda be more involved in the world, but through compassionate means instead. Because he understood the roots of Killmonger's hatred stemmed from Wakanda's own negligence. Additionally, Killmonger's issues with Wakanda was also a reflection of what it's like to be African American where you know your ancestry comes from Africa, but the connection has been wiped away by the destruction of the identities of slaves and there is no actual country in Africa that you can claim as heritage and no country that will claim you. As opposed to someone who knows their family comes from Greece or Spain or Russia, most African Americans have no idea outside of the vague entire continent of Africa. In a way, your heritage has abandoned you just like Wakanda abandoned Killmonger.
Similarly, the Flag-Smashers were about far more than "smash the system." First of all, the system was already smashed. They wanted to stop it from coming back. Second, as they say in the show, when 5 billion people got snapped out of existence the world obviously went into chaos. The sudden devastation led to the breakdown of a lot of things including government systems. The world finally stopped caring about borders and everyone just moved around the world freely, all trying to help each other cope and re-adjust to life after the first snap. Then 5 years later, the 5 billion people come back and the government decided "welp looks like we are back in business. okay all of you get out right now." That's what the relocation was. Taking all the people who survived the snap, had to cope with half the world population disappearing, did their best to move forward, found new homes, and going "yea whatever, that's all over now so go away." That's what the Flag-Smashers were fighting. They saw a unified world in the 5 years of the blip and they didn't want to see it all get thrown away. That's why they had so many supporters. Because even tho half the world population disappeared, half of the people remained and now the relocation was going to destroy the new world they managed to build in the rubble. That's what Sam meant by "you're about to have the same effect," comparing the forcible relocation effort to the Snap. Sam even said when he first tried talking Karli down "I agree with your fight, just not the way you're fighting it." They were terrorists because of their method, not their motive. Same with Killmonger. Their motives weren't weak, you just misunderstood them
I really enjoyed the show. The finale didn’t really do it for me though. A lot of it was just fighting, which is fine, but I was enjoying the character stuff so much more. But the character stuff at the end, Sam’s speech and Bucky’s confession, were amazing
Pretty much every character in the show was incredible, but with two noteworthy exceptions.
Sharon Carter did a complete 180 in the final episode with very little setup. I kind of get it. She was abandoned by her country, family name tarnished, lost everyone, but it’s still a bit of a jump. Hopefully we see it fleshed out a little more
And the flagsmashers. They just didn’t work. At least we didn’t have mindless thugs and a leader like we normally do, the side characters were kind of fleshed out. But I didn’t hate them, nor did I sympathise with them. I think their best purpose was to serve as a dividing line between Walker and Sam in their ideologies
Of course, we had the removed pandemic plot, which might have saved them, but in their current state, they didn’t work unfortunately.
That said, Val was only in 2 scenes and blew it out the water, she was amazing. Walker was one of the most compelling characters we’ve had in the MCU. Bucky felt somewhat neglected but still had a good arc. Sam’s journey is some the best stuff in the entire MCU. They really did the work to explore and earn him the captain America title and what that really means. Isaiah Bradley was an excellent antithesis to Sam, but still got a satisfying ending
The Captain America suit is a bit cheesy but I still love it. The fight choreography with it in EP6 was top notch, and I loved all the callbacks.
So while it was a bit of a rushed and messy conclusion, I really enjoyed the show overall, and it did the same thing wandavision did. Made me care about characters that I was neutral towards before and got me deeply invested in their stories going forward
Not to mention all the beautiful Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers setup
Wandavision by contrast was amazing.