Lessons learned

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Hoitado

Yes I do think Karnak Should Be Buffed

Yes I do think Karnak Should Be Buffed

Karnak and many more!

I use dormammu a lot. Ill be happy if he gets a number buff. Just number buff .

J0eySn0w

I use dormammu a lot. Ill be happy if he gets a number buff. Just number buff .

Someone is scared lol

Edit:
I felt a bit sad when I saw the Hood pop-up message, like the effort and work Kabam put into him gone, but that's normal, it's called running a company.
I don't know if the community ever expressed this: though not a Hood user, I appreciate the thought and work Kabam put into it. In their own way, they were trying to do something cool with the character for users, just not what we wanted. Still, a thing or two learnt on both sides.

I use dormammu a lot. Ill be happy if he gets a number buff. Just number buff .
Someone is scared lol

Edit:
I felt a bit sad when I saw the Hood pop-up message, like the effort and work Kabam put into him gone, but that's normal, it's called running a company.
I don't know if the community ever expressed this: though not a Hood user, I appreciate the thought and work Kabam put into it. In their own way, they were trying to do something cool with the character for users, just not what we wanted. Still, a thing or two learnt on both sides.

I am definitely scared . I used to ask for a tune up fro dormammu but after the recent incident , I am a bit reluctant tbh.

The_Sentry06

I use dormammu a lot. Ill be happy if he gets a number buff. Just number buff .
Someone is scared lol

Edit:
I felt a bit sad when I saw the Hood pop-up message, like the effort and work Kabam put into him gone, but that's normal, it's called running a company.
I don't know if the community ever expressed this: though not a Hood user, I appreciate the thought and work Kabam put into it. In their own way, they were trying to do something cool with the character for users, just not what we wanted. Still, a thing or two learnt on both sides.

Yep. They put in some work creating new icons and stuff and now it might be gone to waste. However, what to do. Hood cannpt be changed like that.

Glassback

You hit the nail on the head with this one mate.

Youtubers and whales change the meta by pushing certain champs and we follow suit.

Champs then get forgotten while people are still using them.

Hood was the perfect example here.

007md92

You hit the nail on the head with this one mate.

Youtubers and whales change the meta by pushing certain champs and we follow suit.

Champs then get forgotten while people are still using them.

Hood was the perfect example here.

On point. This whole tier list has both negetive and positive side.
People don't even try to explore or learn before they reject a champ.
Instead remove tier list completely.
And give out honest review and usage for champs.
Even iniside youtubers it's not like they can play every champ.
Many are not quake players. But quake is such an useful and creative champ.
Vivid example.

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Tier lists r mainly intended for progressing players who doesnt know which champs r good and bad. In the progressing period , they have to be really careful on which champs they use their resources on. Moreover its kind of like the opinion of a specific youtuber. U have the choice to listen to them or no.

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Chikel

Yes I do think Karnak Should Be Buffed

I pulled him yesterday and I couldn't agree more

007md92

You hit the nail on the head with this one mate.

Youtubers and whales change the meta by pushing certain champs and we follow suit.

Champs then get forgotten while people are still using them.

Hood was the perfect example here.
Instead remove tier list completely.
.
And just how do you propose we do that?

It's just a list. People can choose not to follow it.
Instead of putting out tier list may be youtuber can provide with champion play style.
U can follow UKM and jason V .. they usually make very detailed good tutorial for how to use.
That way champs like hood used by many but not usual utubers doesn't gets sidelined and this mess happens.
Although i still believe this buff was amazing.
They should have just kept it and added the fate seal.

Chikel

Tier lists r mainly intended for progressing players who doesnt know which champs r good and bad. In the progressing period , they have to be really careful on which champs they use their resources on. Moreover its kind of like the opinion of a specific youtuber. U have the choice to listen to them or no.

Yea. WHen I started, I knew nothing and ranked up a couple of memes. Had it not been for tier lists, I would have ranked up even more and would be worse off for it. New players need to pay attention to tier lists or they will make painful mistakes. You eventually outgrow them though. I haven't checked the tier lists since I started Act 5

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Kabam can't read minds. They don't know what we as a community like. .
I really like your suggestion on having a sticky page per champion to dissect and discuss them. However, every single one of them will be derailed by you know who....

That aside, kabam can't read minds, but they can see all the data which does indeed show what we as a community do and don't like. They will be able to see that not a single cav+ player, uses og iron Man, the two caps, beast and a plethora of others, except as, at best, synergy fillers and arena fodder.

They have the data, but they need rubbish and middle of the range champs in the pool to keep the gamblers gambling!

Discussion is unavoidable. The overall benefit outweighs the potential of derailment.

Numbers don't say everything, certain champions are used for one specific situation (Ronan for instant). In the numbers he will perform badly, but where he's used, there is no better. The trick is to buff him that he is expanded outside those situations, but keeping his current use the same.

Mr_Platypus

I use dormammu a lot. Ill be happy if he gets a number buff. Just number buff .

Honestly I’d use Dormammu a lot more if his block proficiency was increased.
Wouldn’t say no to increasing the detonation damage either though.

Ordersixtysix

That’s the thing champs like hood are overshadowed by champs like tigra doom and ss but when that overshadowed champ gets a buff everyone seems to magically have been using them. Which is funny because it’s not the average joe player that says it, it’s the whales and youtubers that wanna control the game how they see fit

I use dormammu a lot. Ill be happy if he gets a number buff. Just number buff .
Honestly I’d use Dormammu a lot more if his block proficiency was increased.
Wouldn’t say no to increasing the detonation damage either though.

Yeah , thats true. Since the fight takes really long, its a very important factor. I go with sp 3 cycle and heal a bit to keep up with block damage.

BeastDad

The real question is, why are so many characters absolutely garbage and of no use whatsoever? I am not talking about middle tier guys, I'm talking about the lowest of the low that have no utility to speak of. There shouldn't be characters that are just utterly useless.

J0eySn0w

I use dormammu a lot. Ill be happy if he gets a number buff. Just number buff .
Someone is scared lol

Edit:
I felt a bit sad when I saw the Hood pop-up message, like the effort and work Kabam put into him gone, but that's normal, it's called running a company.
I don't know if the community ever expressed this: though not a Hood user, I appreciate the thought and work Kabam put into it. In their own way, they were trying to do something cool with the character for users, just not what we wanted. Still, a thing or two learnt on both sides.
I am definitely scared . I used to ask for a tune up fro dormammu but after the recent incident , I am a bit reluctant tbh.

With Hood incident, I think they'll factor in core utility and mechanics when working on champs. I hope it doesn't affect the work they put in newer buffs, as they've been doing. That will be bad on their part, a little failure doesn't merit giving up or not doing your best. Overall, a decent amount of the buffs are awesome and others are cool. The only fails in my books are DDHK and Hood, that's just my opinion. For some reason, I'm hoping DDHK regen thingy is fixed, never know.

I use dormammu a lot. Ill be happy if he gets a number buff. Just number buff .
Honestly I’d use Dormammu a lot more if his block proficiency was increased.
Wouldn’t say no to increasing the detonation damage either though.

I think some attribute and ability changes are in order. I would like to have his power burn permanently.

DNA3000

Why not have a dedicated discussion for each champion, where a champion is dissected to its core? Where fans can gather and exchange their vision of the future of this champion? Where Kabam developers can be inspired and design a community-supported buff? One that keeps what's good?

The thought has crossed my mind as well. I can think of a lot of champions that are possibly or likely underperforming in the data, but have core elements I would not want messed with. For example:

King Groot: tankiness, stackable permanent armor breaks
Dormammu: power control, degen
Vision: power control, power burn, heal block
Elektra: DAA, assasins
Karnak: True Strike
Taskmaster: AAR, debuff potency mitigation
Sentry: uh, give me a minute here.

The one problem I see here is that we don't know when updates are on the horizon for individual champs, and almost by definition the champs in jeopardy the most are the ones with few advocates, so those dedicated threads could go cold quickly. And even after Hood, we can't preserve everything so one player mentioning one thing for one champ by itself can't prevent the devs from changing something. There has to be a very compelling reason to believe the functionality is important enough, and valued enough, to qualify for protection. That's going to be tricky to drum up support for, and sustain, over potentially a long period of time.

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DrZola

Why not have a dedicated discussion for each champion, where a champion is dissected to its core? Where fans can gather and exchange their vision of the future of this champion? Where Kabam developers can be inspired and design a community-supported buff? One that keeps what's good?
The thought has crossed my mind as well. I can think of a lot of champions that are possibly or likely underperforming in the data, but have core elements I would not want messed with. For example:

King Groot: tankiness, stackable permanent armor breaks
Dormammu: power control, degen
Vision: power control, power burn, heal block
Elektra: DAA, assasins
Karnak: True Strike
Taskmaster: AAR, debuff potency mitigation
Sentry: uh, give me a minute here.

The one problem I see here is that we don't know when updates are on the horizon for individual champs, and almost by definition the champs in jeopardy the most are the ones with few advocates, so those dedicated threads could go cold quickly. And even after Hood, we can't preserve everything so one player mentioning one thing for one champ by itself can't prevent the devs from changing something. There has to be a very compelling reason to believe the functionality is important enough, and valued enough, to qualify for protection. That's going to be tricky to drum up support for, and sustain, over potentially a long period of time.

Why not have the team share their “dirty dozen” that are currently on their radar?

No obligations or commitments, just a set of champs that they (and probably we) would consider among the tune up pool? I’d be shocked if they couldn’t see which champs are primarily used by lower level players when there is no other option. They usually say they have the data.

Solicit serious input, police the thread to remove moronic comments and firefights and maybe get some actionable material from actual players.

Dr. Zola