New AW Updates

ChuckD05

KnightZero said:

Kill_Grey said:

I'm just happy that redoubled determination is getting removed. Can finally have a reason to use my iabom on offense 🙄.

I didn't mind the node tbh. Just that certain champs had dumb interactions.

It wasn’t that bad at all. You were able to catch teams who didn’t know how to take the fight. Nothing on the map was too hard.

Grub

Kabam Miike said:

Grub said:

So are you actually going to make the map harder?

A lot of tier 1 master wars are already extremely close in low single digits deaths.

This isn’t really making it any better. R3 attackers have made most of the nodes a joke. Need to buff the attack and health % on all of tier 1 maps.

The vast majority of the fights outside of the boss are under a minute (if that). Bring back the challenge.

We are definitely aware. And that's why I made sure to call out the fact that we're moving faster than ever to continue to make changes to AW, and that Tier 1 is a priority.

We wanted to make changes for this season and had some ideas, but after some consultations with Top Players and amongst each other, we found that we didn't have the answer we were looking for yet and needed to go back to the Drawing board and look at multiple solutions and that unless we wanted to delay this season even further, we couldn't increase the difficulty in the Top Tiers without doing something extremely punishing.

We know that these changes aren't the answers to Tier 1 War problems, and know we need to work on them. But these do offer an improved War Experience for 99% of our Alliances, and we didn't want to continue to hold them back until we find a solution for our most competitive players.

Season 28 will have more changes, and so will Season 29, 30, 31, etc. We know you've all waited a long time for answer to your stressors, and we are asking that you wait a little longer, but know that we are on the case.

Excellent. Another idea we’ve thrown around in the alliance is attacker diversity. That’s one way you can also add a bit of difficulty/nuance. Limiting the same type of attacker to like 2-3 per bg.

joke1004

Make it harder but also less expensive. That can’t be as hard to implement …. If you WANT to..

Grub

Kabam Miike said:

FimsonCrog said:

Do you guys at Kabam even know what Tier 1 is like? Quality of life update? There is no quality in that update.

Quality of Life Updates refer to the changes to Timers, Energy, etc.

Amazing change. Thanks

KnightZero

ChuckD05 said:

KnightZero said:

Kill_Grey said:

I'm just happy that redoubled determination is getting removed. Can finally have a reason to use my iabom on offense 🙄.

I didn't mind the node tbh. Just that certain champs had dumb interactions.

It wasn’t that bad at all. You were able to catch teams who didn’t know how to take the fight. Nothing on the map was too hard.

Depends on the AI. Stingy AI easily screwed you over. I mean if you're having issues with Falcon getting reduced utility, this was way harder. Atleast those champs still have hard counters. And Falcon is still a beast. It only affects if you run those specific champs. Which I don't think many will.

KnightZero

Grub said:

Kabam Miike said:

Grub said:

So are you actually going to make the map harder?

A lot of tier 1 master wars are already extremely close in low single digits deaths.

This isn’t really making it any better. R3 attackers have made most of the nodes a joke. Need to buff the attack and health % on all of tier 1 maps.

The vast majority of the fights outside of the boss are under a minute (if that). Bring back the challenge.

We are definitely aware. And that's why I made sure to call out the fact that we're moving faster than ever to continue to make changes to AW, and that Tier 1 is a priority.

We wanted to make changes for this season and had some ideas, but after some consultations with Top Players and amongst each other, we found that we didn't have the answer we were looking for yet and needed to go back to the Drawing board and look at multiple solutions and that unless we wanted to delay this season even further, we couldn't increase the difficulty in the Top Tiers without doing something extremely punishing.

We know that these changes aren't the answers to Tier 1 War problems, and know we need to work on them. But these do offer an improved War Experience for 99% of our Alliances, and we didn't want to continue to hold them back until we find a solution for our most competitive players.

Season 28 will have more changes, and so will Season 29, 30, 31, etc. We know you've all waited a long time for answer to your stressors, and we are asking that you wait a little longer, but know that we are on the case.

Excellent. Another idea we’ve thrown around in the alliance is attacker diversity. That’s one way you can also add a bit of difficulty/nuance. Limiting the same type of attacker to like 2-3 per bg.

Wouldn't want this for lower maps though. Up top you guys can have it lol.

YoMoves

Grub said:

Kabam Miike said:

Grub said:

So are you actually going to make the map harder?

A lot of tier 1 master wars are already extremely close in low single digits deaths.

This isn’t really making it any better. R3 attackers have made most of the nodes a joke. Need to buff the attack and health % on all of tier 1 maps.

The vast majority of the fights outside of the boss are under a minute (if that). Bring back the challenge.

We are definitely aware. And that's why I made sure to call out the fact that we're moving faster than ever to continue to make changes to AW, and that Tier 1 is a priority.

We wanted to make changes for this season and had some ideas, but after some consultations with Top Players and amongst each other, we found that we didn't have the answer we were looking for yet and needed to go back to the Drawing board and look at multiple solutions and that unless we wanted to delay this season even further, we couldn't increase the difficulty in the Top Tiers without doing something extremely punishing.

We know that these changes aren't the answers to Tier 1 War problems, and know we need to work on them. But these do offer an improved War Experience for 99% of our Alliances, and we didn't want to continue to hold them back until we find a solution for our most competitive players.

Season 28 will have more changes, and so will Season 29, 30, 31, etc. We know you've all waited a long time for answer to your stressors, and we are asking that you wait a little longer, but know that we are on the case.

Excellent. Another idea we’ve thrown around in the alliance is attacker diversity. That’s one way you can also add a bit of difficulty/nuance. Limiting the same type of attacker to like 2-3 per bg.

I actually don't like that idea, on the basis that then you could stockpile a lot of a really annoying defender with only one or two counters and just place one every lane. You won't have enough people to kill them all safely...

Demonzfyre

Gmonkey said:

Not a huge fan so far. Who cares how many times you die will lose some points but encouraging throwing revives at the problem by making exploring 100% a must.

I'm always curious as to why people equate Kabam wanting people to explore the map to it means they make money off potions. The whole purpose of AQ and AW was to take down all the defenders. Boss rushing wasn't ever an intended tactic but people were doing it as to lose less points but still taking the boss. AW is supposed to be the more skill based Alliance content. Boss rushing isn't skill.

If you're having trouble with a node, switch out with someone else. Plenty of counters for all the nodes in AW except for Hazzard Shift.

GroundedWisdom

They don't listen to Tier 1? I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. The last series of changes have benefitted no one but the upper crust. Now that the rest of the Player Base is getting some attention, they are ignoring all of a sudden?

ChuckD05

KnightZero said:

ChuckD05 said:

KnightZero said:

Kill_Grey said:

I'm just happy that redoubled determination is getting removed. Can finally have a reason to use my iabom on offense 🙄.

I didn't mind the node tbh. Just that certain champs had dumb interactions.

It wasn’t that bad at all. You were able to catch teams who didn’t know how to take the fight. Nothing on the map was too hard.

Depends on the AI. Stingy AI easily screwed you over. I mean if you're having issues with Falcon getting reduced utility, this was way harder. Atleast those champs still have hard counters. And Falcon is still a beast. It only affects if you run those specific champs. Which I don't think many will.

Well it will still be fine But they punish quake and falcon in the two tactics. While removing the only nodes on the map that consistently get kills. Falcon will be fine , but it just doesn’t make sense to directly target falcon while making everything else much easier.

Getting clipped by a Gwen is 80 units. Is that why it’s made ? seems to me it is lol

YoMoves

GroundedWisdom said:

They don't listen to Tier 1? I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. The last series of changes have benefitted no one but the upper crust. Now that the rest of the Player Base is getting some attention, they are ignoring all of a sudden?

Well that's a mite tone-deaf...

The biggest concerns tier 1 has had are:

Single digit, and now sub-5, death wars. If anything, this makes the likelihood of 1 and 0 death wars even higher, which not only shows ignorance to tier 1, but actually exacerbates the problem.

Ties hurting both alliances as a loss, rather than some middle ground, like a tie should be: No changes here.

Cheaters, modders, and the like: Not a word, which truly messes up the lives of the Master class, as many extremely hardworking alliances continue to be staved off by the likes of those who win through illegitimate means.

None of these have been addressed in spite of them being the top tiers' biggest concerns. Anything else has not been what we wanted.

LilMaddogHT

A simple idea: Introduce Attacker Diversity in the upper tier wars... Bring a little spice to the competition where having multiple guys bring Quakes, Ghost etc 🥱 will cause some of the ties to go away and bring something extra to the final total score as you get more points for bringing in up to 30 different attackers to smash the map.

To me, it's pretty lame to see a bunch of guys bring quake, ghost, tons of white Magnetos, etc over and over again.

Attacker Diversity would reward those that can diversify their attack teams and come up with a solid plan to conquer the map with a varied roster.

YoMoves

LilMaddogHT said:

A simple idea: Introduce Attacker Diversity in the upper tier wars... Bring a little spice to the competition where having multiple guys bring Quakes, Ghost etc 🥱 will cause some of the ties to go away and bring something extra to the final total score as you get more points for bringing in up to 30 different attackers to smash the map.

To me, it's pretty lame to see a bunch of guys bring quake, ghost, tons of white Magnetos, etc over and over again.

Attacker Diversity would reward those that can diversify their attack teams and come up with a solid plan to conquer the map with a varied roster.

And also benefit defenses who choose to place 9-10 of a difficult defender who only has 2-3 counters, thus making it nigh-impossible to clear them all...

LilMaddogHT

YoMoves said:

LilMaddogHT said:

A simple idea: Introduce Attacker Diversity in the upper tier wars... Bring a little spice to the competition where having multiple guys bring Quakes, Ghost etc 🥱 will cause some of the ties to go away and bring something extra to the final total score as you get more points for bringing in up to 30 different attackers to smash the map.

To me, it's pretty lame to see a bunch of guys bring quake, ghost, tons of white Magnetos, etc over and over again.

Attacker Diversity would reward those that can diversify their attack teams and come up with a solid plan to conquer the map with a varied roster.

And also benefit defenses who choose to place 9-10 of a difficult defender who only has 2-3 counters, thus making it nigh-impossible to clear them all...

If you place a bunch of the same defenders you lose out on diversity points. You can counter with multiples of the same attacker or actually have the skills to do it with unique ones. Not impossible to clear certain champions with just 1 counter... Kabam just made wars easier. I see less deaths & more ties w/ this change which makes it more stressful. We need more competition and strategy for war in the upper tiers, not more repetitive AQ style play.

Greywarden

Kabam Miike said:

Grub said:

So are you actually going to make the map harder?

A lot of tier 1 master wars are already extremely close in low single digits deaths.

This isn’t really making it any better. R3 attackers have made most of the nodes a joke. Need to buff the attack and health % on all of tier 1 maps.

The vast majority of the fights outside of the boss are under a minute (if that). Bring back the challenge.

We are definitely aware. And that's why I made sure to call out the fact that we're moving faster than ever to continue to make changes to AW, and that Tier 1 is a priority.

We wanted to make changes for this season and had some ideas, but after some consultations with Top Players and amongst each other, we found that we didn't have the answer we were looking for yet and needed to go back to the Drawing board and look at multiple solutions and that unless we wanted to delay this season even further, we couldn't increase the difficulty in the Top Tiers without doing something extremely punishing.

We know that these changes aren't the answers to Tier 1 War problems, and know we need to work on them. But these do offer an improved War Experience for 99% of our Alliances, and we didn't want to continue to hold them back until we find a solution for our most competitive players.

Season 28 will have more changes, and so will Season 29, 30, 31, etc. We know you've all waited a long time for answer to your stressors, and we are asking that you wait a little longer, but know that we are on the case.

Part of the problem is most of the people you are discussing this stuff with are mostly (if not all) from the CCP. Being able to post vids to YouTube doesn’t make those groups of people experts. You should be broadening the group of people you are having these discussions with, maybe with 4/5+ years in the game regardless of their involvement with YouTube.

GroundedWisdom

YoMoves said:

GroundedWisdom said:

They don't listen to Tier 1? I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. The last series of changes have benefitted no one but the upper crust. Now that the rest of the Player Base is getting some attention, they are ignoring all of a sudden?

Well that's a mite tone-deaf...

The biggest concerns tier 1 has had are:

Single digit, and now sub-5, death wars. If anything, this makes the likelihood of 1 and 0 death wars even higher, which not only shows ignorance to tier 1, but actually exacerbates the problem.

Ties hurting both alliances as a loss, rather than some middle ground, like a tie should be: No changes here.

Cheaters, modders, and the like: Not a word, which truly messes up the lives of the Master class, as many extremely hardworking alliances continue to be staved off by the likes of those who win through illegitimate means.

None of these have been addressed in spite of them being the top tiers' biggest concerns. Anything else has not been what we wanted.

Which was already addressed. They looked at a number of things but weren't satisfied with them yet and they wanted to roll out what the other 99% of Players would benefit from. Which, let's be real, War Seasons are only benefitting the top percentile to begin with. If you're not in Master or Plat 1, it's barely even worth the month of work. People are opting out of War because it's more stress than enjoyment, and the payout isn't worth it. This whole idea that they're ignoring the top is just plain wrong.

Kabam Miike

Greywarden said:

Kabam Miike said:

Grub said:

So are you actually going to make the map harder?

A lot of tier 1 master wars are already extremely close in low single digits deaths.

This isn’t really making it any better. R3 attackers have made most of the nodes a joke. Need to buff the attack and health % on all of tier 1 maps.

The vast majority of the fights outside of the boss are under a minute (if that). Bring back the challenge.

We are definitely aware. And that's why I made sure to call out the fact that we're moving faster than ever to continue to make changes to AW, and that Tier 1 is a priority.

We wanted to make changes for this season and had some ideas, but after some consultations with Top Players and amongst each other, we found that we didn't have the answer we were looking for yet and needed to go back to the Drawing board and look at multiple solutions and that unless we wanted to delay this season even further, we couldn't increase the difficulty in the Top Tiers without doing something extremely punishing.

We know that these changes aren't the answers to Tier 1 War problems, and know we need to work on them. But these do offer an improved War Experience for 99% of our Alliances, and we didn't want to continue to hold them back until we find a solution for our most competitive players.

Season 28 will have more changes, and so will Season 29, 30, 31, etc. We know you've all waited a long time for answer to your stressors, and we are asking that you wait a little longer, but know that we are on the case.

Part of the problem is most of the people you are discussing this stuff with are mostly (if not all) from the CCP. Being able to post vids to YouTube doesn’t make those groups of people experts. You should be broadening the group of people you are having these discussions with, maybe with 4/5+ years in the game regardless of their involvement with YouTube.

While we do speak to Content Creators quite often, they are not the only players we speak to, and even when they are, we look for feedback from affected players within the group.

For example here, we were looking specifically for feedback from players in Tier 1 Alliances, as well as some feedback from Tier 2 and 3, but different kinds of info are needed from different groups.

We know that just because somebody is a member of the Content Creator, doesn't mean that they are the authority in every area of the game.

pseudosane

Kabam Miike said:

Grub said:

So are you actually going to make the map harder?

A lot of tier 1 master wars are already extremely close in low single digits deaths.

This isn’t really making it any better. R3 attackers have made most of the nodes a joke. Need to buff the attack and health % on all of tier 1 maps.

The vast majority of the fights outside of the boss are under a minute (if that). Bring back the challenge.

We are definitely aware. And that's why I made sure to call out the fact that we're moving faster than ever to continue to make changes to AW, and that Tier 1 is a priority.

We wanted to make changes for this season and had some ideas, but after some consultations with Top Players and amongst each other, we found that we didn't have the answer we were looking for yet and needed to go back to the Drawing board and look at multiple solutions and that unless we wanted to delay this season even further, we couldn't increase the difficulty in the Top Tiers without doing something extremely punishing.

We know that these changes aren't the answers to Tier 1 War problems, and know we need to work on them. But these do offer an improved War Experience for 99% of our Alliances, and we didn't want to continue to hold them back until we find a solution for our most competitive players.

Season 28 will have more changes, and so will Season 29, 30, 31, etc. We know you've all waited a long time for answer to your stressors, and we are asking that you wait a little longer, but know that we are on the case.

I can live with this. I like this update.

Agent_X_zzz

GroundedWisdom said:

YoMoves said:

GroundedWisdom said:

They don't listen to Tier 1? I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. The last series of changes have benefitted no one but the upper crust. Now that the rest of the Player Base is getting some attention, they are ignoring all of a sudden?

Well that's a mite tone-deaf...

The biggest concerns tier 1 has had are:

Single digit, and now sub-5, death wars. If anything, this makes the likelihood of 1 and 0 death wars even higher, which not only shows ignorance to tier 1, but actually exacerbates the problem.

Ties hurting both alliances as a loss, rather than some middle ground, like a tie should be: No changes here.

Cheaters, modders, and the like: Not a word, which truly messes up the lives of the Master class, as many extremely hardworking alliances continue to be staved off by the likes of those who win through illegitimate means.

None of these have been addressed in spite of them being the top tiers' biggest concerns. Anything else has not been what we wanted.

Which was already addressed. They looked at a number of things but weren't satisfied with them yet and they wanted to roll out what the other 99% of Players would benefit from. Which, let's be real, War Seasons are only benefitting the top percentile to begin with. If you're not in Master or Plat 1, it's barely even worth the month of work. People are opting out of War because it's more stress than enjoyment, and the payout isn't worth it. This whole idea that they're ignoring the top is just plain wrong.

Let me reiterate what Yomoves has said, the main issue with high tier war is the amount of deaths, which ends up being super low, in the past bit it has been less that double digits. This often results in ties (which is basically a loss to both alliances) and war often gets decided on 1 single death, making it super stressful for all the players. Some of the war changes being made, is making war actually easier, which results in even more stress.

Demonzfyre

DeaconVelvet said:

I might have read it wrong but i'm not impressed with 99% of the proposed changes. the only caveat being the selection of individual buffs. that might be interesting but the main problems in War continue to be evaded. the season is too long, there's nothing to motivate you beyond personal achievement if you're not in a Master/Platinum alliance, defense tactics still are terrible.

How long should a season be? It's 12 wars already.

StringerB3ll

danielmath said:

YoMoves said:

If anything, this makes Master a crapshoot. There will be, and I guarantee it, at least one 0-0 tie next season....

Not for us if stringer has anything to say about it!

Rest assured that in the next 4 weeks I will find a way to die in a 0-0 tie.

SCZ

There needs to be changes to potions as well

KnightZero

SCZ said:

There needs to be changes to potions as well

This. Should be at the top of QoL change along with the AW boost which you changed.

Also, @Kabam Miike quick question about the AW boost coming in store. Are all 3 coming every 3 days together or is it one by one?

GroundedWisdom

Agent_X_zzz said:

GroundedWisdom said:

YoMoves said:

GroundedWisdom said:

They don't listen to Tier 1? I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. The last series of changes have benefitted no one but the upper crust. Now that the rest of the Player Base is getting some attention, they are ignoring all of a sudden?

Well that's a mite tone-deaf...

The biggest concerns tier 1 has had are:

Single digit, and now sub-5, death wars. If anything, this makes the likelihood of 1 and 0 death wars even higher, which not only shows ignorance to tier 1, but actually exacerbates the problem.

Ties hurting both alliances as a loss, rather than some middle ground, like a tie should be: No changes here.

Cheaters, modders, and the like: Not a word, which truly messes up the lives of the Master class, as many extremely hardworking alliances continue to be staved off by the likes of those who win through illegitimate means.

None of these have been addressed in spite of them being the top tiers' biggest concerns. Anything else has not been what we wanted.

Which was already addressed. They looked at a number of things but weren't satisfied with them yet and they wanted to roll out what the other 99% of Players would benefit from. Which, let's be real, War Seasons are only benefitting the top percentile to begin with. If you're not in Master or Plat 1, it's barely even worth the month of work. People are opting out of War because it's more stress than enjoyment, and the payout isn't worth it. This whole idea that they're ignoring the top is just plain wrong.

Let me reiterate what Yomoves has said, the main issue with high tier war is the amount of deaths, which ends up being super low, in the past bit it has been less that double digits. This often results in ties (which is basically a loss to both alliances) and war often gets decided on 1 single death, making it super stressful for all the players. Some of the war changes being made, is making war actually easier, which results in even more stress.

A certain amount of that is inevitable when you're dealing with the highest level of ability. It's not the point he made that I responded to. It was the fact that he reiterated that none of this solves the issues when they already stated they haven't settled on a solution yet. It's the idea that they're ignoring the top, which is just not true.

Greywarden

Kabam Miike said:

Greywarden said:

Kabam Miike said:

Grub said:

So are you actually going to make the map harder?

A lot of tier 1 master wars are already extremely close in low single digits deaths.

This isn’t really making it any better. R3 attackers have made most of the nodes a joke. Need to buff the attack and health % on all of tier 1 maps.

The vast majority of the fights outside of the boss are under a minute (if that). Bring back the challenge.

We are definitely aware. And that's why I made sure to call out the fact that we're moving faster than ever to continue to make changes to AW, and that Tier 1 is a priority.

We wanted to make changes for this season and had some ideas, but after some consultations with Top Players and amongst each other, we found that we didn't have the answer we were looking for yet and needed to go back to the Drawing board and look at multiple solutions and that unless we wanted to delay this season even further, we couldn't increase the difficulty in the Top Tiers without doing something extremely punishing.

We know that these changes aren't the answers to Tier 1 War problems, and know we need to work on them. But these do offer an improved War Experience for 99% of our Alliances, and we didn't want to continue to hold them back until we find a solution for our most competitive players.

Season 28 will have more changes, and so will Season 29, 30, 31, etc. We know you've all waited a long time for answer to your stressors, and we are asking that you wait a little longer, but know that we are on the case.

Part of the problem is most of the people you are discussing this stuff with are mostly (if not all) from the CCP. Being able to post vids to YouTube doesn’t make those groups of people experts. You should be broadening the group of people you are having these discussions with, maybe with 4/5+ years in the game regardless of their involvement with YouTube.

While we do speak to Content Creators quite often, they are not the only players we speak to, and even when they are, we look for feedback from affected players within the group.

For example here, we were looking specifically for feedback from players in Tier 1 Alliances, as well as some feedback from Tier 2 and 3, but different kinds of info are needed from different groups.

We know that just because somebody is a member of the Content Creator, doesn't mean that they are the authority in every area of the game.

Appreciate the quick reply but I still hold to the assertion that the focus group you’re using isn’t broad enough and changes aren’t happening quick enough.

Why exactly has it taken this long just for these minor changes? Why are cheaters only handled 1-2 times a year? Why do they only get week long bans?

There WILL be high profile alliances taking a break from the next season if effectively nothing has changed. Way too much stress for little rewards, not sure any level of rewards are worth it tbh.

I’ve been part of multiple sub 5 death ties this season and you’re telling me things are going to be easier because someone in a wood level alliance can’t handle ibom? Cmon guys.

Grub

butter_ball20 said:

Quake and Ghost are broken, boring, and a big reason why scores are tight.

Add your attacker banning system, it will immediately fix some of the problems without even touching the map, otherwise we're just kicking the can down the road again.

This is why I was talking about attacker diversity. I don’t think outright completely banning an attacker is correct for a 10 man BG, but limiting attackers in each BG and awarding points for it (offensive diversity points) will significantly change the meta.

I also wouldn’t exactly be opposed to each BG being able to ban an attacker, although I suspect this would eliminate quake from the game. Maybe a single attacker banned per war, but it can’t be for multiple bgs.

Gregdagr8

Get rid of defensive tactics! We've been telling you this every single season since they were introduced. They don't work and they are horrible to play against.

Mr_Platypus

I mostly play tier 4/5.
But I honestly don’t care for any of these changes unless the long, long overdue reward update comes with it. And I wouldn’t put it past them to get to within 1 week of season start and put out an announcement saying no reward changes this season.