New Arena Structure Feedback v2.0

Cop123

GroundedWisdom said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

GroundedWisdom said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Wait.....so because they came up with a solution that accommodates the issues presented, and still facilitates those with larger Rosters, people think this hurts people? I'd like to know what logic that stems from.
The Featured Arena is the same. The Basic allows people who aren't sitting on stacked 6* Rosters to benefit from it. The previous system was hurting far more people because the Milestones weren't attainable to the majority of people playing.
This was in the interest of fairness. That's the problem with these compromises. If a group of Players aren't benefitting at the expense of everyone else, it's called a snub. Here's a newsflash. There's a 95% playing below the 5%.

Define "facilitate those with large roster". By facilitate, do you mean being told the 6* champs you spent years working for are now useless in the one arena you were interested in doing? And if you want to participate in said arena you now have to revert back in your progression to focusing on 5 star champs? Even though the *old/outdated* system allow us to use 6 stars? The new updated version (which actually allows you to earn a 6 star now) has now rendered our 6 stars useless all to make it grindable for units?

Your missing the whole point with your "at the expense of others" rederick. All I want is a system that's fair for everyone. Literally, all my posts have been about that.

I maintain my point. I believe it is absolutely possible to make it so folks can both grind units for a reasonable effort without resorting to nerfing the roster of an entire segment of the player base. I'm sorry, but this is not the best solution to accomplish this. Surely there's another way.

Because we all know those Rosters are in need of a Basic 6* more than people are in need of being included in Grinding overall. The mentality is that these new Arenas serve the top, so the rest should accommodate. Sorry, but there are other people playing the game as well, and they have needs.

Lol, still not commenting on my actual point. That there are absolutely other, better ways of returning the same access to units to smaller rosters without nerfing the rosters of others. Simple as that. Why is it always an "us vs "them" melodrama?

Also, as usual, you are unwilling to part with your divisive talking points such as "rich get richer" "step on the little guy" type slogans long enough to have a intelligent conversation based in reality or truth. The truth is that I never advocated for arena 2.0. I gave a ton of feedback or ideas on how to fix it for progressing players. Even though it didn't affect me negatively. Now, they've fixed it for them (kind of), but it didn't have to be by nerfing another set of players rosters. There's another way. That's my point.

And for the record, I don't dislike progressing players or something absurd like that. But some of them seem to dislike us older players for some reason. I actually created a relaxed sister alliance where both veteran players who wanted a break and progressing players are playing together and having fun. It's been great.Guess what, we all respect each other and get along just fine. This whole false divisiveness being created between progressing and veteran players in threads like these is uncalled for and toxic.

So were Units the only concern for people playing? Tell me, what of the people who aren't sitting on 100 6*s. Where does their gaming experience come into play for an Arena they can't hit Milestones in or think of competing with? Seeing as how Kabam has made it clear that they're only sticking to the 3-Arena format, should the rest of people just settle for the Units and not have a chance to progress their Rosters as well? The perspective of people bothered by this is entirely unilateral, and there is a range of Players in between Johnny Newbie and Jimmy Roster. So again, other people are playing that have needs and concerns besides the acquisition of Basics for people who have a plethora of 6*s. Compromise. Can't have it all.

why do you keep bringing up milestones of the the changed arena system? that has nothing to do with the points a 6 star gives and so on. kabam could have easily just lowered the milestones and kept the 6 star points the same if you are looking out for the people who couldn't grind previous milestones.

hungryhungrybbq

GroundedWisdom said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

GroundedWisdom said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Wait.....so because they came up with a solution that accommodates the issues presented, and still facilitates those with larger Rosters, people think this hurts people? I'd like to know what logic that stems from.
The Featured Arena is the same. The Basic allows people who aren't sitting on stacked 6* Rosters to benefit from it. The previous system was hurting far more people because the Milestones weren't attainable to the majority of people playing.
This was in the interest of fairness. That's the problem with these compromises. If a group of Players aren't benefitting at the expense of everyone else, it's called a snub. Here's a newsflash. There's a 95% playing below the 5%.

Define "facilitate those with large roster". By facilitate, do you mean being told the 6* champs you spent years working for are now useless in the one arena you were interested in doing? And if you want to participate in said arena you now have to revert back in your progression to focusing on 5 star champs? Even though the *old/outdated* system allow us to use 6 stars? The new updated version (which actually allows you to earn a 6 star now) has now rendered our 6 stars useless all to make it grindable for units?

Your missing the whole point with your "at the expense of others" rederick. All I want is a system that's fair for everyone. Literally, all my posts have been about that.

I maintain my point. I believe it is absolutely possible to make it so folks can both grind units for a reasonable effort without resorting to nerfing the roster of an entire segment of the player base. I'm sorry, but this is not the best solution to accomplish this. Surely there's another way.

Because we all know those Rosters are in need of a Basic 6* more than people are in need of being included in Grinding overall. The mentality is that these new Arenas serve the top, so the rest should accommodate. Sorry, but there are other people playing the game as well, and they have needs.

Lol, still not commenting on my actual point. That there are absolutely other, better ways of returning the same access to units to smaller rosters without nerfing the rosters of others. Simple as that. Why is it always an "us vs "them" melodrama?

Also, as usual, you are unwilling to part with your divisive talking points such as "rich get richer" "step on the little guy" type slogans long enough to have a intelligent conversation based in reality or truth. The truth is that I never advocated for arena 2.0. I gave a ton of feedback or ideas on how to fix it for progressing players. Even though it didn't affect me negatively. Now, they've fixed it for them (kind of), but it didn't have to be by nerfing another set of players rosters. There's another way. That's my point.

And for the record, I don't dislike progressing players or something absurd like that. But some of them seem to dislike us older players for some reason. I actually created a relaxed sister alliance where both veteran players who wanted a break and progressing players are playing together and having fun. It's been great.Guess what, we all respect each other and get along just fine. This whole false divisiveness being created between progressing and veteran players in threads like these is uncalled for and toxic.

So were Units the only concern for people playing? Tell me, what of the people who aren't sitting on 100 6*s. Where does their gaming experience come into play for an Arena they can't hit Milestones in or think of competing with? Seeing as how Kabam has made it clear that they're only sticking to the 3-Arena format, should the rest of people just settle for the Units and not have a chance to progress their Rosters as well? The perspective of people bothered by this is entirely unilateral, and there is a range of Players in between Johnny Newbie and Jimmy Roster. So again, other people are playing that have needs and concerns besides the acquisition of Basics for people who have a plethora of 6*s. Compromise. Can't have it all.

I read this. But I still don't understand. Sincerely, will read again and try to understand what you are saying.
Edit: Ok, I read again. My only guess is your are saying you believe it's a pick 1 situation? Like, the only choice in the current system is to either make the Basic good for one group and bad for another? And, if that's the reality of the situation, you'd prefer to see it favor "the little guy"? That's what my take away is from this paragraph. If I'm wrong, lemme know.

But yeah, that's what I'm saying, man. I don't accept that. I think something can be done to make it fair for everyone.

GroundedWisdom

Let me put it in Layman's Terms. Units aren't the only aspect to consider when accommodating people who aren't at the top.

GroundedWisdom

There's only 3 Arenas and an entire range of a Player Base to consider.

hungryhungrybbq

GroundedWisdom said:

Let me put it in Layman's Terms. Units aren't the only aspect to consider when accommodating people who aren't at the top.

So, the reason I brought up units, was because you couldn't walk into the previous thread on the current version of arena without being smacked in the face with 100s of posts complaining about how the unit grind was changed by the new system. You're acting like I made this up lol.. No, I read a lot of the posts in that thread. And the main complaint was unit milestone accessibility. Like, not even by a little. It was overwhelmingly the main theme of the entire thread. Yet, when I mentioned it, you act like it's a concept I came up with on my own.

Giuliameij

hungryhungrybbq said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Let me put it in Layman's Terms. Units aren't the only aspect to consider when accommodating people who aren't at the top.

So, the reason I brought up units, was because you couldn't walk into the previous thread on the current version of arena without being smacked in the face with 100s of posts complaining about how the unit grind was changed by the new system. You're acting like I made this up lol.. No, I read a lot of the posts in that thread. And the main complaint was unit milestone accessibility. Like, not even by a little. It was overwhelmingly the main theme of the entire thread. Yet, when I mentioned it, you act like it's a concept I came up with on my own.

You are absolutely right. The first week or so I read every post on that thread and atleast 80% was about how they couldn`t do the same as before because they couldn`t complete both top arena's. Main focus was less units.

Monk1

hungryhungrybbq said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Let me put it in Layman's Terms. Units aren't the only aspect to consider when accommodating people who aren't at the top.

So, the reason I brought up units, was because you couldn't walk into the previous thread on the current version of arena without being smacked in the face with 100s of posts complaining about how the unit grind was changed by the new system. You're acting like I made this up lol.. No, I read a lot of the posts in that thread. And the main complaint was unit milestone accessibility. Like, not even by a little. It was overwhelmingly the main theme of the entire thread. Yet, when I mentioned it, you act like it's a concept I came up with on my own.

Agreed.

The ironic nature of all these posts is madness. It is beyond ridiculous that 6* are rendered useless in basic arena, whatever way you look at it it makes no sense.

And if ‘units’ are not the issue - which 99.9% of people have said - then others are dreaming if they think effectively excluding 6* will give them a chance at the basic champs.

If anything this makes it even more catered to big rosters as they is no longer the challenge of balancing arena grind. Use all 6* in feature (12m milestones can be done in less than a day 🤦‍♂️ ) and then use all 5* (most having 175+) in basic.

GroundedWisdom

Yes. People were concerned about the Units. From a design perspective, that's not the only thing to consider. It has to be something that Players can gradually grow into. It's not black and white. It's not just those who Grind for Units, and those who are going for Champs. People are putting up the most that their Rosters will allow and improving on that over time. The point is, the gap was too large between people having no issue at all, and people who weren't even capable of competing. You need something people can grow from over time. Not an Arena that will take people years to be able to Grind successfully. Our interpretation might be that some Grind just for Units and others go for the Champs, but that doesn't mean that's literally all there is.
I'm trying to put this as objectively and politely as I possibly can, but this is entitlement at its best.

TheBoogyMan

Monk1 said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Let me put it in Layman's Terms. Units aren't the only aspect to consider when accommodating people who aren't at the top.

So, the reason I brought up units, was because you couldn't walk into the previous thread on the current version of arena without being smacked in the face with 100s of posts complaining about how the unit grind was changed by the new system. You're acting like I made this up lol.. No, I read a lot of the posts in that thread. And the main complaint was unit milestone accessibility. Like, not even by a little. It was overwhelmingly the main theme of the entire thread. Yet, when I mentioned it, you act like it's a concept I came up with on my own.

Agreed.

The ironic nature of all these posts is madness. It is beyond ridiculous that 6* are rendered useless in basic arena, whatever way you look at it it makes no sense.

And if ‘units’ are not the issue - which 99.9% of people have said - then others are dreaming if they think effectively excluding 6* will give them a chance at the basic champs.

If anything this makes it even more catered to big rosters as they is no longer the challenge of balancing arena grind. Use all 6* in feature (12m milestones can be done in less than a day 🤦‍♂️ ) and then use all 5* (most having 175+) in basic.

Everyone who wants to go for the basic will have a level ground when up against the whales. That is why the points from 6 star champs have been reduced to 5 star champ level.

If the whales want units, they'd have to do the summoner trials, which is again a level field now given that the focus of that arena is units and not rank rewards.

Not many players grind for the featured. Only those players who want the champ will plan on doing the featured arena.

The arenas are much more stable now than the previous change. The people saying these changes are mot good are unnecessarily shouting. These changes are way better now.

The previous change was catering to the whales who would get aroung 400 units from the basic and featured. The regular player base was getting shafted with only 140 units from summoner trials. That was not a fair change. The new changes make it much more player friendly with units more accessible to a bigger base and not just whales.

Monk1

TheBoogyMan said:

Monk1 said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Let me put it in Layman's Terms. Units aren't the only aspect to consider when accommodating people who aren't at the top.

So, the reason I brought up units, was because you couldn't walk into the previous thread on the current version of arena without being smacked in the face with 100s of posts complaining about how the unit grind was changed by the new system. You're acting like I made this up lol.. No, I read a lot of the posts in that thread. And the main complaint was unit milestone accessibility. Like, not even by a little. It was overwhelmingly the main theme of the entire thread. Yet, when I mentioned it, you act like it's a concept I came up with on my own.

Agreed.

The ironic nature of all these posts is madness. It is beyond ridiculous that 6* are rendered useless in basic arena, whatever way you look at it it makes no sense.

And if ‘units’ are not the issue - which 99.9% of people have said - then others are dreaming if they think effectively excluding 6* will give them a chance at the basic champs.

If anything this makes it even more catered to big rosters as they is no longer the challenge of balancing arena grind. Use all 6* in feature (12m milestones can be done in less than a day 🤦‍♂️ ) and then use all 5* (most having 175+) in basic.

Everyone who wants to go for the basic will have a level ground when up against the whales. That is why the points from 6 star champs have been reduced to 5 star champ level.

If the whales want units, they'd have to do the summoner trials, which is again a level field now given that the focus of that arena is units and not rank rewards.

Not many players grind for the featured. Only those players who want the champ will plan on doing the featured arena.

The arenas are much more stable now than the previous change. The people saying these changes are mot good are unnecessarily shouting. These changes are way better now.

The previous change was catering to the whales who would get aroung 400 units from the basic and featured. The regular player base was getting shafted with only 140 units from summoner trials. That was not a fair change. The new changes make it much more player friendly with units more accessible to a bigger base and not just whales.

And yet again we are back to discussing units!!

TheBoogyMan

Monk1 said:

TheBoogyMan said:

Monk1 said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Let me put it in Layman's Terms. Units aren't the only aspect to consider when accommodating people who aren't at the top.

So, the reason I brought up units, was because you couldn't walk into the previous thread on the current version of arena without being smacked in the face with 100s of posts complaining about how the unit grind was changed by the new system. You're acting like I made this up lol.. No, I read a lot of the posts in that thread. And the main complaint was unit milestone accessibility. Like, not even by a little. It was overwhelmingly the main theme of the entire thread. Yet, when I mentioned it, you act like it's a concept I came up with on my own.

Agreed.

The ironic nature of all these posts is madness. It is beyond ridiculous that 6* are rendered useless in basic arena, whatever way you look at it it makes no sense.

And if ‘units’ are not the issue - which 99.9% of people have said - then others are dreaming if they think effectively excluding 6* will give them a chance at the basic champs.

If anything this makes it even more catered to big rosters as they is no longer the challenge of balancing arena grind. Use all 6* in feature (12m milestones can be done in less than a day 🤦‍♂️ ) and then use all 5* (most having 175+) in basic.

Everyone who wants to go for the basic will have a level ground when up against the whales. That is why the points from 6 star champs have been reduced to 5 star champ level.

If the whales want units, they'd have to do the summoner trials, which is again a level field now given that the focus of that arena is units and not rank rewards.

Not many players grind for the featured. Only those players who want the champ will plan on doing the featured arena.

The arenas are much more stable now than the previous change. The people saying these changes are mot good are unnecessarily shouting. These changes are way better now.

The previous change was catering to the whales who would get aroung 400 units from the basic and featured. The regular player base was getting shafted with only 140 units from summoner trials. That was not a fair change. The new changes make it much more player friendly with units more accessible to a bigger base and not just whales.

And yet again we are back to discussing units!!

That is because the main focus of arenas for players is units. Less than 2% of players do the arenas for champs.

I know you are "not interested" in the units. The points for 6 star champs has been reduced in the basic arena to provide a fair ground for the players, when competing with those with huge 6 star rosters. Else, the players with big rosters will make it almost impossible for other players to ever get the basic champs.

Monk1

The other issue here is that I and everyone in my ally, plus most I know lost interest in ranking 5* champs a long time ago.

So now we are in theory being ‘forced’ to rank them again to grind for 6* champs - surely you see the logic of how ridiculous this actually is

GroundedWisdom

That's a mistake many people make. They assume they'll never need lower Rarities in a game that is constantly changing.

hungryhungrybbq

GroundedWisdom said:

Yes. People were concerned about the Units. From a design perspective, that's not the only thing to consider. It has to be something that Players can gradually grow into. It's not black and white. It's not just those who Grind for Units, and those who are going for Champs. People are putting up the most that their Rosters will allow and improving on that over time. The point is, the gap was too large between people having no issue at all, and people who weren't even capable of competing. You need something people can grow from over time. Not an Arena that will take people years to be able to Grind successfully. Our interpretation might be that some Grind just for Units and others go for the Champs, but that doesn't mean that's literally all there is.
I'm trying to put this as objectively and politely as I possibly can, but this is entitlement at its best.

Oh, I'm someone who will often grind for shards, as stated in some of my posts from previous arena thread. I sometimes go for units, and on occasion I may want to try for an older basic champ I need if I think it's realistic for me to do so. It all depends on my week and how much time I have. So, I *am* one of the people in between those who just want units or those who just want the champ. Don't need the concept explained to me.

And if you are by any chance referring to those of us upset at the idea of having our rosters nerfed. Simply because Kabam is willing to let veteran players fall on the sword to make their 3 arena system "work" while still avoiding letting players have "easy access" to 135 units. Then, I'll state as politely as I can... That's outrageous.

Don't get me started on actual examples of entitled attitudes in these forums. I'm not gonna take the bait on that. Cause I really don't want to say anything dispariging for fear it plays back into the "Us" vs "Them" that you seem to thrive on.

Giuliameij

I actually see the addition of the 6* champs in the basic as a good thing.
But most of these points come from my personal standpoint.

1: More battlechips, since 6 star enemies give more per fight.
2: More champs I can use to get to 4m points since they start of at r4 5* level (eventhou I have 17 r4/r5 teams)
3: Higher PI enemies so easier to get a good score quicker.

Other benefits:

1: Lower level players now have more champs they can use after they get the streak, since a lot of uncollected players get a few lucky/free 6 stars. This will allow them to get to the scores required to get the 3 and 4 star champs. Which can still be useful for uncollected players.

Downside:

Higher enemies to reach the infinite streak.

Seriously considering to do everything in the trials and just pick 1 arena for the 5 and 6* shards depending where the cutoff is. But will probably just try and do everything and become unit hungry again.

hungryhungrybbq

TheBoogyMan said:

Monk1 said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Let me put it in Layman's Terms. Units aren't the only aspect to consider when accommodating people who aren't at the top.

So, the reason I brought up units, was because you couldn't walk into the previous thread on the current version of arena without being smacked in the face with 100s of posts complaining about how the unit grind was changed by the new system. You're acting like I made this up lol.. No, I read a lot of the posts in that thread. And the main complaint was unit milestone accessibility. Like, not even by a little. It was overwhelmingly the main theme of the entire thread. Yet, when I mentioned it, you act like it's a concept I came up with on my own.

Agreed.

The ironic nature of all these posts is madness. It is beyond ridiculous that 6* are rendered useless in basic arena, whatever way you look at it it makes no sense.

And if ‘units’ are not the issue - which 99.9% of people have said - then others are dreaming if they think effectively excluding 6* will give them a chance at the basic champs.

If anything this makes it even more catered to big rosters as they is no longer the challenge of balancing arena grind. Use all 6* in feature (12m milestones can be done in less than a day 🤦‍♂️ ) and then use all 5* (most having 175+) in basic.

Everyone who wants to go for the basic will have a level ground when up against the whales. That is why the points from 6 star champs have been reduced to 5 star champ level.

If the whales want units, they'd have to do the summoner trials, which is again a level field now given that the focus of that arena is units and not rank rewards.

Not many players grind for the featured. Only those players who want the champ will plan on doing the featured arena.

The arenas are much more stable now than the previous change. The people saying these changes are mot good are unnecessarily shouting. These changes are way better now.

The previous change was catering to the whales who would get aroung 400 units from the basic and featured. The regular player base was getting shafted with only 140 units from summoner trials. That was not a fair change. The new changes make it much more player friendly with units more accessible to a bigger base and not just whales.

Sorry, but this is one of the a classic misuses of the term "whale" I was talking about earlier. What's your deal with this? Anyone who has a good roster, from playing the game actively and diligently for a long time is a whale to you? "The whales this, the whales that..." You understand that eventually (and this is the whole point of the game as it's progression based), you'll also have a good roster too, right? Then what, you are now one of "the whales"? Do you think veteran players just downloaded the game and had 6 star rosters? No..lol, we had 1* Spiderman just like everyone else who downloaded the game... Only difference is we've put in way more time and effort.

So, my question to you becomes, at what point should we nerf your roster? Once you've developed it further. Since you are in favor of this.

Just_grinding

These changes really only affect the people wanting to get to max milestones. The basic arena got worse than the 3/4 arena if you went to 600/800k. Now you just get less. And the number of matches to get units in the higher arenas is nuts. 1m and you get a total of 15 units. Versus 2-3 rounds in the basic. @Kabam Miike its not an alignment of effort or number of fights across the arena. It’s simply adding more milestones that most people won’t do.

Giuliameij

Just_grinding said:

These changes really only affect the people wanting to get to max milestones. The basic arena got worse than the 3/4 arena if you went to 600/800k. Now you just get less. And the number of matches to get units in the higher arenas is nuts. 1m and you get a total of 15 units. Versus 2-3 rounds in the basic. @Kabam Miike its not an alignment of effort or number of fights across the arena. It’s simply adding more milestones that most people won’t do.

Actually that is not exactly true. Numbers below are the estimation of rounds I need to do based on my roster and masteries:

Trials: 120 rounds for 270 units
basic: 45 rounds for 135 units
featured: 60 rounds for 135 units.

This roughly amounts to:
Trials: 2,25 units per round
Basic: 3 units per round
Featured: 2,25 units per round

So the basic actually has better units per round than the other 2. And since in the featured you fase 6* champs that give more battlechips. You could argue you also get more per round. The total number available is just lower. And you get nice rank rewards for doing them, while the trials are not so good in rank rewards.


Btw, us arguing/discussing among eachother instead of united against Kabam actually shows this new improvement is a step in the very right direction.

BigManOnCampus

Cop123 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

GroundedWisdom said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Wait.....so because they came up with a solution that accommodates the issues presented, and still facilitates those with larger Rosters, people think this hurts people? I'd like to know what logic that stems from.
The Featured Arena is the same. The Basic allows people who aren't sitting on stacked 6* Rosters to benefit from it. The previous system was hurting far more people because the Milestones weren't attainable to the majority of people playing.
This was in the interest of fairness. That's the problem with these compromises. If a group of Players aren't benefitting at the expense of everyone else, it's called a snub. Here's a newsflash. There's a 95% playing below the 5%.

Define "facilitate those with large roster". By facilitate, do you mean being told the 6* champs you spent years working for are now useless in the one arena you were interested in doing? And if you want to participate in said arena you now have to revert back in your progression to focusing on 5 star champs? Even though the *old/outdated* system allow us to use 6 stars? The new updated version (which actually allows you to earn a 6 star now) has now rendered our 6 stars useless all to make it grindable for units?

Your missing the whole point with your "at the expense of others" rederick. All I want is a system that's fair for everyone. Literally, all my posts have been about that.

I maintain my point. I believe it is absolutely possible to make it so folks can both grind units for a reasonable effort without resorting to nerfing the roster of an entire segment of the player base. I'm sorry, but this is not the best solution to accomplish this. Surely there's another way.

Because we all know those Rosters are in need of a Basic 6* more than people are in need of being included in Grinding overall. The mentality is that these new Arenas serve the top, so the rest should accommodate. Sorry, but there are other people playing the game as well, and they have needs.

Lol, still not commenting on my actual point. That there are absolutely other, better ways of returning the same access to units to smaller rosters without nerfing the rosters of others. Simple as that. Why is it always an "us vs "them" melodrama?

Also, as usual, you are unwilling to part with your divisive talking points such as "rich get richer" "step on the little guy" type slogans long enough to have a intelligent conversation based in reality or truth. The truth is that I never advocated for arena 2.0. I gave a ton of feedback or ideas on how to fix it for progressing players. Even though it didn't affect me negatively. Now, they've fixed it for them (kind of), but it didn't have to be by nerfing another set of players rosters. There's another way. That's my point.

And for the record, I don't dislike progressing players or something absurd like that. But some of them seem to dislike us older players for some reason. I actually created a relaxed sister alliance where both veteran players who wanted a break and progressing players are playing together and having fun. It's been great.Guess what, we all respect each other and get along just fine. This whole false divisiveness being created between progressing and veteran players in threads like these is uncalled for and toxic.

So were Units the only concern for people playing? Tell me, what of the people who aren't sitting on 100 6*s. Where does their gaming experience come into play for an Arena they can't hit Milestones in or think of competing with? Seeing as how Kabam has made it clear that they're only sticking to the 3-Arena format, should the rest of people just settle for the Units and not have a chance to progress their Rosters as well? The perspective of people bothered by this is entirely unilateral, and there is a range of Players in between Johnny Newbie and Jimmy Roster. So again, other people are playing that have needs and concerns besides the acquisition of Basics for people who have a plethora of 6*s. Compromise. Can't have it all.

why do you keep bringing up milestones of the the changed arena system? that has nothing to do with the points a 6 star gives and so on. kabam could have easily just lowered the milestones and kept the 6 star points the same if you are looking out for the people who couldn't grind previous milestones.

True the main issue was the milestones , they could have left the 6* points be.

Gamer

DoubleDelta said:

All they needed to do was replace the summoner trials with the 4* basic again. Knock 5 units off each of the top 4/5 milestones, put them into the lower ones of both 6* arenas, maybe shove some more bc into the upper milestones to replace them.. done.

Regardless what changes is not everyone is happy regardless. Knew that mils away ready for you’re disagreeing

KnightZero

DoubleDelta said:

BigManOnCampus said:

Cop123 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

GroundedWisdom said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Wait.....so because they came up with a solution that accommodates the issues presented, and still facilitates those with larger Rosters, people think this hurts people? I'd like to know what logic that stems from.
The Featured Arena is the same. The Basic allows people who aren't sitting on stacked 6* Rosters to benefit from it. The previous system was hurting far more people because the Milestones weren't attainable to the majority of people playing.
This was in the interest of fairness. That's the problem with these compromises. If a group of Players aren't benefitting at the expense of everyone else, it's called a snub. Here's a newsflash. There's a 95% playing below the 5%.

Define "facilitate those with large roster". By facilitate, do you mean being told the 6* champs you spent years working for are now useless in the one arena you were interested in doing? And if you want to participate in said arena you now have to revert back in your progression to focusing on 5 star champs? Even though the *old/outdated* system allow us to use 6 stars? The new updated version (which actually allows you to earn a 6 star now) has now rendered our 6 stars useless all to make it grindable for units?

Your missing the whole point with your "at the expense of others" rederick. All I want is a system that's fair for everyone. Literally, all my posts have been about that.

I maintain my point. I believe it is absolutely possible to make it so folks can both grind units for a reasonable effort without resorting to nerfing the roster of an entire segment of the player base. I'm sorry, but this is not the best solution to accomplish this. Surely there's another way.

Because we all know those Rosters are in need of a Basic 6* more than people are in need of being included in Grinding overall. The mentality is that these new Arenas serve the top, so the rest should accommodate. Sorry, but there are other people playing the game as well, and they have needs.

Lol, still not commenting on my actual point. That there are absolutely other, better ways of returning the same access to units to smaller rosters without nerfing the rosters of others. Simple as that. Why is it always an "us vs "them" melodrama?

Also, as usual, you are unwilling to part with your divisive talking points such as "rich get richer" "step on the little guy" type slogans long enough to have a intelligent conversation based in reality or truth. The truth is that I never advocated for arena 2.0. I gave a ton of feedback or ideas on how to fix it for progressing players. Even though it didn't affect me negatively. Now, they've fixed it for them (kind of), but it didn't have to be by nerfing another set of players rosters. There's another way. That's my point.

And for the record, I don't dislike progressing players or something absurd like that. But some of them seem to dislike us older players for some reason. I actually created a relaxed sister alliance where both veteran players who wanted a break and progressing players are playing together and having fun. It's been great.Guess what, we all respect each other and get along just fine. This whole false divisiveness being created between progressing and veteran players in threads like these is uncalled for and toxic.

So were Units the only concern for people playing? Tell me, what of the people who aren't sitting on 100 6*s. Where does their gaming experience come into play for an Arena they can't hit Milestones in or think of competing with? Seeing as how Kabam has made it clear that they're only sticking to the 3-Arena format, should the rest of people just settle for the Units and not have a chance to progress their Rosters as well? The perspective of people bothered by this is entirely unilateral, and there is a range of Players in between Johnny Newbie and Jimmy Roster. So again, other people are playing that have needs and concerns besides the acquisition of Basics for people who have a plethora of 6*s. Compromise. Can't have it all.

why do you keep bringing up milestones of the the changed arena system? that has nothing to do with the points a 6 star gives and so on. kabam could have easily just lowered the milestones and kept the 6 star points the same if you are looking out for the people who couldn't grind previous milestones.

True the main issue was the milestones , they could have left the 6* points be.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the milestones before. Maybe drop a couple units and replace them with something else, but you cannot ask for all the units to be grabable in the first 5 milestones. Now, you're going to have to put the same grind in.. but hey.. it looks lower because you can earn less points

Maybe the milestones weren't an issue for you, but for others it definitely was. No idea how you feel that the grind for units is going to be the same.
I agree that this isn't optimal, but what you're saying JUST in terms of units is bs.
16.5 mill for basic arena was pure dumb.

able21

hungryhungrybbq said:

KnightZero said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

Monk1 said:

KnightZero said:

Monk1 said:

All in a very typical response to people
Who want stuff for nothing..reduce everything to lowest state.

We saw Act 6 nerf’d cause it was ‘too hard’ and then act 7 came along (yes it’s fun) but it is over in about 2 days, cause people shout and moan if anything remotely tests skill and developed rosters

Noone here is wanting more for less effort. Those grinding units still have to put in the same effort to reach the milestones. The reduction in 6* points sucks, but unless Kabam was willing to give higher units, it wouldnt make sense for them.
The only person here who wants extra stuff for same effort is you tbh.
Act 6 attack values were stupid. Inflating attack values is a dumb way to just make things harder.
Don't want to get into that argument since it's never ending, but any new content is over in less than a week by endgamers. Doesn't matter what it is.

I am taking effort in terms of overall game investment (as per @hungryhungrybbq point).

I have paid my dues grinding 3/4* champs and struggling to make milestones with a small roster. I should be able to benefit from my investment, not be pegged back.

Again I could not care less about 3/4* arena… I want the basic 6* to not be a dog if I want that champ.. and I want the extra milestones I. 6* feature, as will always be going to 25m anyways for the 1k shards.

Yeah, it's unfortunate. But the forum sometimes gets overrun by newer players, some of whom only really care about things affect *them* and don't seem to care about how it affects others. Not all, just some. They have the mistaken perception that they represent 99% of the player base. I've actually seen multiple posts in last thread that said.. "this is only good for 1%..." etc. I think this perception comes from that fact that they are just more vocal about it. Which leads them to believe only 1% of the player base is composed of veteran players. 🙂

When the system was really bad for them, I never spammed disagrees on their posts as they are doing to ours now. As a veteran player, the new system was fine for me, but I actually agreed that it was very bad for them and was all in favor of fixing it. Again, even though it didn't affect me, I actually was giving real thought and time into trying come up with ideas of how to fix it... to help *them*. Now, when we are the ones who are getting burnt by a new system, it's "Wow, this is great!" And spamming disagree on posts that we make with sincere concerns about the new system now. Simply because they don't want *their* version of arena to be taken away.

This is kind of what I was afraid of. In the previous thread I kept seeing suggestions given that would simply just turn the tables on veteran players and make arenas worse for them instead. I'd like to believe it's because they just didn't realize that their ideas would hurt our experience in an effort to fix their own, but unfortunately.. for some anyway, I think it's more that they just don't care. So long as it's fixed *for them*. I tried explaining why some of these "fixes" could hurt veteran players. And tried to come up with solutions that could help everyone. It doesn't have to be fixed for one group of players and broken for others. I still believe there's a solution for everyone.

It kind of all ties into this "us" vs "them" dynamic I've seen here in the forum. Ftp and/or newer players refer to anyone who has a nice roster as "whales". It's ridiculous. I've never seen the word misused so much. Veteran player doesn't equal "whale". BG is a veteran player... Please stop randomly tossing the word whale around. There are many of us who worked very hard to earn our rosters over years.. but they just say.. "let the whales have the Featured arena..." Suggesting all veteran players are A: whales (which has become such a negative term the way they use it..like an insult..) First of all, I have alliance mates and friends who are at least mini whales. And they are some of the nicest people you'll ever talk to. Who actually enjoy giving advice to newer players and paying it forward, etc. And guess what, a lot of "whales" are actually very very skilled players and they grind the game hard as well. Some people have this illusion that Whales aren't skilled or don't work for what they have. It's just not true in a lot of cases.

And B: Suggests they don't have the right to use the roster they've worked for in whichever arena they choose. Why does our roster have to be outright nerfed to participate in a basic arena? Especially for those of us who actually wanted to compete for a champ in the Basic. You're telling us were not welcome in it? Or it's not for for us? "Just take your filthy whale roster and go do the Featured...you..whale!" Lol, it's so dumb. You want me to actually go back backwards in progression to use 5 star champs to compete for a 6 star champ now? When the old outdated system was using 6 star to go for 5 star? 😂 I just can't fathom how anyone doesn't see how backwards this is.

Just saying that both of you may seem to be advocating for the same point, but your motives are completely different. I definitely sympathize with your issue. You weren't happy with the old one, aren't happy with this one since your 6* roster isn't as useful when grinding for a 6* Basic as would be.
He wants the old arena since he got more units grinding his normal way and doesn't care if others don't get it.

Tbh, if they still wanted to keep the old milestones, it would be an issue with quite a few of the people grinding for units as long as they loaded the top with the units.
Might have to alter the number since the previous version was **** for the 4* one though.

Yeah man, I just want things to be fair for everyone. My sincere hope is that the folks who are disagreeing with those of us voicing disappointment over the removal of 6 star use (yes, it might as well be removal as they are now weaker than 5 star because of the cooldown) from the basic arena just haven't seen the issue from our side yet.

To try to explain it a different way... To me, and I think others like me, it feels like I'm being forced out of the arena I was most interested in playing. Just as progressing players felt like they were being forced out of the unit based milestones they were used to. It's really not that different. I've given it some thought, and I still don't think I'm making this up. It really does seem, both by Kabam's actions and progressing players words, that they are both suggesting that the Featured Arena is the place for veterans to go. And the Basic Arena is for progressing players. That only works if both of those groups of players specifically only wanted to do the arenas that are "meant" for them. I'm sorry, what if I don't want to do the Featured arena? I feel like my choice to use my roster (at it's full potential) in whichever arena I like has been taken away from me. Am I technically being forbidden to grind the basic? No, but I'm being told if I choose to do so now, I'm doing it with a huge nerf to former potential. I'm not being actually forced into the Featured arena, but more... I'm being told that if I want to use the roster I've spent time building to its full potential, that's the only choice I have left now.

And, ask yourselves this question. Why would Kabam leave the ability to use 6 star in the basic, but nerf them instead? To a point where they are actually less valuable than 5 star based on the cooldown. Why not just remove them? It's because they realized just how ridiculous of a concept it would be if you can't use 6 star champs to grind for 6 star champs. So, they left them in there, as an empty gesture to attempt to make it look not as ridiculous.

I agree but feel you left one part out. They also left the 6* in so that players will get death matches so that they lose their streak, something kabam has said was never intended, and have to use units to refresh in order to reach the milestones which means that the units they are grinding for they are spending to grind. Doesn't make much sense.

able21

Giuliameij said:

Just_grinding said:

These changes really only affect the people wanting to get to max milestones. The basic arena got worse than the 3/4 arena if you went to 600/800k. Now you just get less. And the number of matches to get units in the higher arenas is nuts. 1m and you get a total of 15 units. Versus 2-3 rounds in the basic. @Kabam Miike its not an alignment of effort or number of fights across the arena. It’s simply adding more milestones that most people won’t do.

Actually that is not exactly true. Numbers below are the estimation of rounds I need to do based on my roster and masteries:

Trials: 120 rounds for 270 units
basic: 45 rounds for 135 units
featured: 60 rounds for 135 units.

This roughly amounts to:
Trials: 2,25 units per round
Basic: 3 units per round
Featured: 2,25 units per round

So the basic actually has better units per round than the other 2. And since in the featured you fase 6* champs that give more battlechips. You could argue you also get more per round. The total number available is just lower. And you get nice rank rewards for doing them, while the trials are not so good in rank rewards.


Btw, us arguing/discussing among eachother instead of united against Kabam actually shows this new improvement is a step in the very right direction.

You failed to take into account in your calculations how many rounds it adds to your grind after losing your streak to death squads in the basic arena.

able21

GroundedWisdom said:

able21 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Wait.....so because they came up with a solution that accommodates the issues presented, and still facilitates those with larger Rosters, people think this hurts people? I'd like to know what logic that stems from.
The Featured Arena is the same. The Basic allows people who aren't sitting on stacked 6* Rosters to benefit from it. The previous system was hurting far more people because the Milestones weren't attainable to the majority of people playing.
This was in the interest of fairness. That's the problem with these compromises. If a group of Players aren't benefitting at the expense of everyone else, it's called a snub. Here's a newsflash. There's a 95% playing below the 5%.

Define "facilitate those with large roster". By facilitate, do you mean being told the 6* champs you spent years working for are now useless in the one arena you were interested in doing? And if you want to participate in said arena you now have to revert back in your progression to focusing on 5 star champs? Even though the *old/outdated* system allow us to use 6 stars? The new updated version (which actually allows you to earn a 6 star now) has now rendered our 6 stars useless all to make it grindable for units?

Your missing the whole point with your "at the expense of others" rederick. All I want is a system that's fair for everyone. Literally, all my posts have been about that.

I maintain my point. I believe it is absolutely possible to make it so folks can both grind units for a reasonable effort without resorting to nerfing the roster of an entire segment of the player base. I'm sorry, but this is not the best solution to accomplish this. Surely there's another way.

Because we all know those Rosters are in need of a Basic 6* more than people are in need of being included in Grinding overall. The mentality is that these new Arenas serve the top, so the rest should accommodate. Sorry, but there are other people playing the game as well, and they have needs.

So by this logic they should remove the champs from the the rewards in the basic arena and only have units in the rewards.

Not what I said. I said the people complaining don't even need the Basics that badly.

What you said was that the ones that have the rosters that can attain the champs in the basic arena really don't need those champs anyway and that the other players need to be included in the grinding. By saying this you are saying exactly what I said.

Mathking13

Overall, for most Summoners I think this is going to be a pretty good change. And the issues that still exist with this new system should, for the most part, disappear as soon as Kabam is able to figure out what is causing deathmatches and STOMP THOSE STUPID THINGS OUT OF EXISTENCE. Best of luck with that.

Mr_Platypus

hungryhungrybbq said:

Mr_Platypus said:

Owlkit said:

I am not happy about reducing 6 stars base in Basic Arenas doesn't seem fair to those of us who have worked on getting a strong 6* roster but I'll see how it goes.

It’s only 4mil, like 3 rounds of maxed 5*s if your roster is as stacked as you are saying.

For sure, this doesn't take into account folks who were looking forward to occasionally grinding for a basic champ is all.

True, personally I don’t understand why they didn’t just remove 6*s from being used in the basic arena rather than reducing their points but either way, I suspect the point requirements to get the 5* and 6* will come down so may not be a huge deal.

iFilipowicz

@hungryhungrybbq

So basically you want the advantage of your BIG 6* roster, you have worked soooo hard for, over all the smaller accounts with less 6*.
To make it way easier for you to get the basic 6* and expand your chances?!

These 98% of people underneath you have absolutely NO chance against these big 6* rosters because of the absurd points 6* normally give compared to the rest. Competition would be death for them before it even started.
On the other side, with these changes, the 2% can still compete and get the basic champs, it’s just a more even playing field, with chances for a far bigger group of players to even get a basic champ.
So what is the better compromise? Cater to 40% of the player base or to the top 2% and completely exclude the rest?!

I sure recognize you always talk about a "fair" solution for everyone but I haven’t read the smallest hint what this could be.
Come up with at least something small ... anything.
Talking about it is so easy but I can’t see a solution making it "fair" in your sense. 🤷🏻‍♂️