**WE ARE NO LONGER Temporarily Reverting Tier 1 War Ban System**

After further discussion, the game team has made the decision not make adjustements to the ban system.
The previously proposed fix would have resolved the issue for Summoners who are on the cusp of T1/T2 play, and negatively impacted Alliances more securely in T1. Instead, we recommend that cusp Alliances switch to Manual Placement to your members to place the allotted 5 Ban Champions limit there.

Apologies for the back and forth, and for any confusion.
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New Arena Structure Feedback v2.0

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    Monk1Monk1 Posts: 748 ★★★★
    I recommend opening the new 50k TB crystals when decide to go.. they offer great returns.
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    CyberOneMillionCyberOneMillion Posts: 20
    -sixate- said:

    Lvernon15 said:

    Lvernon15 said:

    At a minimum if the 6* champs are getting the same points as a 5*, reduce their cooldown to be the same

    This is only in the Basic Arena, which is an Arena they previously could not be used in.
    They could be used there though...

    I'm referring to the Arenas before we introduced the 5 and 6 Star Basic.
    But since a 6* champ is a top reward in the basic arena 6* champs should be used and not devalued to be worse than 5* in the basic arena. Because with a longer cooldown they are worse than a 5* champ. This literally makes zero sense.
    The 5* featured arena was released several years ago. Making a 5* basic arena would have drawn attention away from the 5* featured arena. Less summoners would have played the 5* featured arena if there was a less competitive arena offering a 5* champ as the top prize. Therefore, think of the upcoming 6* basic arena update as what a 5* basic arena would have been. 6* champs earning 5* point values are usable in fights and are the top prize. There was never any intention to make 5* champs any more easily obtainable or drawn attention away from the new 6* featured arena. Not making an arena where 5* champs are the top prize accomplishes the intended goal.
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    abn86abn86 Posts: 107
    I think the changes are good, on the whole. Can't please everyone, but I think the segments who were hurt originally was a bigger population. Arena grinders are a small population of the total game, but of those, you got unit/shard/BC grinders and champ grinders. Anyone who was just hunting for milestones is better off in this one (notwithstanding the Summoner Trials grind, but 4m is doable with 2 hr refresh timers on 4* so that's a wash imo).

    I think champ grinders, specifically 6* basic grinders, feel hurt by this but I'm not sure you should. Points, in and of themselves, are secondary and the grind has always been about total rounds. If you have a large 6* roster you have an equally large 5* roster and still maintain a gigantic advantage. The difference is the total points to get the champ will go down - effort (e.g. rounds) will remain nearly the same. I think this is something that you will probably have to see in practice to actually believe it, but I just don't think it is the catastrophe it may seem.


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    CyberOneMillionCyberOneMillion Posts: 20
    Yale007 said:

    @Kabam Miike are you phasing out two and three star champions? These changes still make them obsolete along with all crystals and boosts associated with them. What reason would I have wanting a 3* when there is no place in the game to effectively use them? And now there is almost zero reason to warrant the use of resources to rank them up to collect digital dust on my bench. Otherwise, I’ll be curious to test out the arenas on the 10th.

    There will be special arenas in which 2* and 3* champs are the only rarities allowed to participate.
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    Ryder8972Ryder8972 Posts: 2

    Wait.....so because they came up with a solution that accommodates the issues presented, and still facilitates those with larger Rosters, people think this hurts people? I'd like to know what logic that stems from.
    The Featured Arena is the same. The Basic allows people who aren't sitting on stacked 6* Rosters to benefit from it. The previous system was hurting far more people because the Milestones weren't attainable to the majority of people playing.
    This was in the interest of fairness. That's the problem with these compromises. If a group of Players aren't benefitting at the expense of everyone else, it's called a snub. Here's a newsflash. There's a 95% playing below the 5%.

    Rightly said, but the issue of facing death matches are still present. Hope something is done about that.
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    hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 2,168 ★★★★★

    Lvernon15 said:

    Also not fond of the impact on the 6 stars being lower and what that’ll have on the grinds for the champions, for milestones it’s a good change, but for champion grinds having a bigger 6* roster won’t help that much, and people with less champs but more ranked 5 stars will be getting more from it, which just doesn’t feel right

    The larger 6* roster will help in the Featured Arena where their point base is not affected. So save the 6* for that arena.
    Let me preface by saying this is not directed at you personally. However there's a trend I've noticed. And I'm just commented on that. This just confirms what I said earlier... the new mentality this change is manifesting. The idea that veteran players must now go where they "belong". In the Featured. Kabam's nerfing of 6 stars, along with all the comments I've seen now from players. Essentially saying, "The basic arena belongs to us now. You can just go to the Featured arena where you belong... and everything is fine."

    Nope, that's basically my whole point. I waited for a long time for the day to come for a 6* Basic. I was pretty excited at the announcement. Only to be told a couple weeks later, "Yeah.. just kidding. In response to a mountain of negative feedback, we've decide to just effectively exclude you and your roster via nerf, from the Basic."
    - Thanks for playing Contest of Champions

    I'll say it again. There's absolutely another way to fix it without nerfing our champs/telling us to go where we belong (Featured). I don't want to grind 100 mil points for new meme champs lol..can't make me 🙂
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    hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 2,168 ★★★★★
    edited June 2021
    abn86 said:

    I think the changes are good, on the whole. Can't please everyone, but I think the segments who were hurt originally was a bigger population. Arena grinders are a small population of the total game, but of those, you got unit/shard/BC grinders and champ grinders. Anyone who was just hunting for milestones is better off in this one (notwithstanding the Summoner Trials grind, but 4m is doable with 2 hr refresh timers on 4* so that's a wash imo).

    I think champ grinders, specifically 6* basic grinders, feel hurt by this but I'm not sure you should. Points, in and of themselves, are secondary and the grind has always been about total rounds. If you have a large 6* roster you have an equally large 5* roster and still maintain a gigantic advantage. The difference is the total points to get the champ will go down - effort (e.g. rounds) will remain nearly the same. I think this is something that you will probably have to see in practice to actually believe it, but I just don't think it is the catastrophe it may seem.


    Thing is, regardless of the actual winning scores. Nothing changes this fact... Folks with a decent amount of 6 star champs will always (no matter how we try to slice it) be doing somewhere between 50 - 100% more fights to obtain the same score they did before these changes. There's no real way to bypass the math on that.

    Which I find particularly ironic, as the whole reason for these changes was that a segment of the player base was suffering the same fate. The previous thread was littered with complaints about more rounds for less milestones. Correct? That was by far the primary theme of the complaints. This is just a different version of that. Only a different group of players is affected.Maybe it's not to the same degree, but only practice will tell for sure.
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    abn86 said:

    I think the changes are good, on the whole. Can't please everyone, but I think the segments who were hurt originally was a bigger population. Arena grinders are a small population of the total game, but of those, you got unit/shard/BC grinders and champ grinders. Anyone who was just hunting for milestones is better off in this one (notwithstanding the Summoner Trials grind, but 4m is doable with 2 hr refresh timers on 4* so that's a wash imo).

    I think champ grinders, specifically 6* basic grinders, feel hurt by this but I'm not sure you should. Points, in and of themselves, are secondary and the grind has always been about total rounds. If you have a large 6* roster you have an equally large 5* roster and still maintain a gigantic advantage. The difference is the total points to get the champ will go down - effort (e.g. rounds) will remain nearly the same. I think this is something that you will probably have to see in practice to actually believe it, but I just don't think it is the catastrophe it may seem.


    Thing is, regardless of the actual winning scores. Nothing changes this fact... Folks with a decent amount of 6 star champs will always (no matter how we try to slice it) be doing somewhere between 50 - 100% more fights to obtain the same score they did before these changes. There's no real way to bypass the math on that.

    Which I find particularly ironic, as the whole reason for these changes was that a segment of the player base was suffering the same fate. The previous thread was littered with complaints about more rounds for less milestones. Correct? That was by far the primary theme of the complaints. This is just a different version of that. Only a different group of players is affected.Maybe it's not to the same degree, but only practice will tell for sure.
    why do you assume cutoffs will remain the same? The cutoff for basic will fall since the effort to reach said numbers has increased.
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    BigManOnCampusBigManOnCampus Posts: 376 ★★★

    Lvernon15 said:

    At a minimum if the 6* champs are getting the same points as a 5*, reduce their cooldown to be the same

    They can't reduce the cooldown time of 6* champs. If they did, summoners could easily double dip in both the 6* basic arena and 6* featured arena. That's why the cooldown time has to be the same for champions in a given tier even if their point values are different across multiple arenas. Furthermore, the revised milestone structure of the 6* basic arena is far less intimidating for a 5* roster to complete. Normal 6* champ level points would reach 4,000,000 points too easily as someone else has already said.

    They can reduce the cooldown time of 6* champs , for the 6* basic arena only.. Just like they reducing the points for the 6* basic arena ONLY.
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    WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★

    abn86 said:

    I think the changes are good, on the whole. Can't please everyone, but I think the segments who were hurt originally was a bigger population. Arena grinders are a small population of the total game, but of those, you got unit/shard/BC grinders and champ grinders. Anyone who was just hunting for milestones is better off in this one (notwithstanding the Summoner Trials grind, but 4m is doable with 2 hr refresh timers on 4* so that's a wash imo).

    I think champ grinders, specifically 6* basic grinders, feel hurt by this but I'm not sure you should. Points, in and of themselves, are secondary and the grind has always been about total rounds. If you have a large 6* roster you have an equally large 5* roster and still maintain a gigantic advantage. The difference is the total points to get the champ will go down - effort (e.g. rounds) will remain nearly the same. I think this is something that you will probably have to see in practice to actually believe it, but I just don't think it is the catastrophe it may seem.


    Thing is, regardless of the actual winning scores. Nothing changes this fact... Folks with a decent amount of 6 star champs will always (no matter how we try to slice it) be doing somewhere between 50 - 100% more fights to obtain the same score they did before these changes. There's no real way to bypass the math on that.

    Which I find particularly ironic, as the whole reason for these changes was that a segment of the player base was suffering the same fate. The previous thread was littered with complaints about more rounds for less milestones. Correct? That was by far the primary theme of the complaints. This is just a different version of that. Only a different group of players is affected.Maybe it's not to the same degree, but only practice will tell for sure.
    why do you assume cutoffs will remain the same? The cutoff for basic will fall since the effort to reach said numbers has increased.
    What makes you think the cutoffs will go down? You realize people were putting up 70+ million for coveted featured 5*s with mostly 4/5* rosters back when 5*s were the apex right?
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    WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    The cutoffs for less desirable champs will likely drop but for the ones actually worth having? Highly doubt you'll see massive drop offs from the 70 range
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    hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 2,168 ★★★★★
    edited June 2021
    As we've been saying, at the end of the day, after hearing a good number of folks give counter arguments as to why they believe this is ok or acceptable, I still say there is no way to realistically call this anything other than a nerf to players rosters. With varying degrees of impact to each player depending on the amount of 6 star they have and have already become accustomed to using in the arenas.

    People are more focused on counter arguments to players that have 50, 100, 150 6 star. But the truth is, even if you have only one team of 3...you are being affected by this. You just haven't realized the scope of it yet, but I think you will eventually.
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    hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 2,168 ★★★★★
    edited June 2021
    Another possible byproduct of this change occurs to me as well. There is a population of progressing players (some of whom might be "content rushers", some not) who made a decision to ease back on ranking 5 star champs at an earlier than generally recommended point and focused on ranking 6. I don't know if they've thought this whole thing through tbh. And how it's actually going to shake out for them if this change does in fact go through and veteran players who have 30 - 60 maxed 5s (often a product of content exploration during a time when no new content was available) do in fact decide to throw their hat in the ring even though their 6 stars were nerfed.
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    hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 2,168 ★★★★★
    If the 6 star nerf never happens, at least progressing players will still be able to eventually see some value from there 6 stars investments (past and future). If the changes to through as proposed, there will effectively be little room for growth in the basic arena. Progressing players will ultimately find themselves in the same situation as veterans do now. Using their champions of the past and not their champs of the present or future. They'll eventually be faced with the same dilemma. If they want to realize any of the value of their 6 star roster in the arena system, they will eventually be forced into grinding the Featured as well. Whether it appeals to them it not. I just really hope folks are thinking this through beyond the here and now.
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    abn86abn86 Posts: 107

    abn86 said:

    I think the changes are good, on the whole. Can't please everyone, but I think the segments who were hurt originally was a bigger population. Arena grinders are a small population of the total game, but of those, you got unit/shard/BC grinders and champ grinders. Anyone who was just hunting for milestones is better off in this one (notwithstanding the Summoner Trials grind, but 4m is doable with 2 hr refresh timers on 4* so that's a wash imo).

    I think champ grinders, specifically 6* basic grinders, feel hurt by this but I'm not sure you should. Points, in and of themselves, are secondary and the grind has always been about total rounds. If you have a large 6* roster you have an equally large 5* roster and still maintain a gigantic advantage. The difference is the total points to get the champ will go down - effort (e.g. rounds) will remain nearly the same. I think this is something that you will probably have to see in practice to actually believe it, but I just don't think it is the catastrophe it may seem.


    Thing is, regardless of the actual winning scores. Nothing changes this fact... Folks with a decent amount of 6 star champs will always (no matter how we try to slice it) be doing somewhere between 50 - 100% more fights to obtain the same score they did before these changes. There's no real way to bypass the math on that.

    Which I find particularly ironic, as the whole reason for these changes was that a segment of the player base was suffering the same fate. The previous thread was littered with complaints about more rounds for less milestones. Correct? That was by far the primary theme of the complaints. This is just a different version of that. Only a different group of players is affected.Maybe it's not to the same degree, but only practice will tell for sure.
    I don't think scores will stay the same, but I do understand a bit more of the argument now. I think the work to get the basic 6* will stay the same, fluctuating up or down based off champ demand. I don't think the scores will stay the same as they have been.

    The way I see it, the total score is the end result of total fights won. I believe (and hope) this will stay approximately the same, even though we will (should) see scores drop. You may disagree, but I hope I'm right. If so, I think a few of you that are concerned would ultimately feel a bit more at ease.

    At the end of the day, even if 6* (in the basic arena) are equivalent to 5* those with a huge roster are still considerably better off than those without. The advantage of having numerous 6* has shifted from earning more points to having a wider roster. At the end of the day, those with big rosters were competing with those with big wallets (or both) and I don't think that's changed. It SEEMS as though the gap got closed between those with large 6* rosters and those with large 5* rosters, but I don't see it. Even with the cool down, the max possible runs (sans refills) for a 5* would be 10 cycles. Max possible runs for a 6* (sans refills) would be 7 cycles. Assuming a complete point equivalency between 5* and 6* I think is where we are going wrong.

    I THINK 6* at r1 would be equivalent to 5* r4. PI-wise they are the similar so I think scoring would be identical. This seems bad, but at max level a r1 6* has only consumed ISO and gold, but a r4 has consumed those resources as well as t4b, t3cc, t1a, t2a and t4cc. 100 5* at r4 is a huge investment. Each r4 is 12 t4b, 3 t3cc, 7 t4cc, 15 t1a, and 4 t2a. If you had 100 5* @ r4 (the equivalent of a 6* r1) you have invested 120 t4c, 30 t3cc, 70 t4cc, 150 t1a, and 40 t2a.

    My point is the ONLY people with that many resources would have a considerably large 6* roster, as well, and considering r2 shares resources, they would be better off in a 6*. I said all that to say to reinforce my point that losing total scoring points doesn't mean having a large 6* roster has disadvantaged you. You are still competing with the EXACT same segment of people, not introducing anyone new to the fold. Besides the resource investment, in order for you to truly be negatively impacted would be if we assume max cycles. Thing is, if I did max cycles for my 100 5* I put in more effort than you and would I not have been deserving of the champ over you? That the same system it's always been.

    TL;DR Having a lot of 6* still gives you a competitive advantage - it just doesn't give as many points as before. We'll see if this means you would have to increase effort, but I'm doubtful. We'll need a few arena cycles to see if the cutoff does indeed drop, as I think it will. Once we have an idea of the new cutoff, we can approximate total rounds needed to get top 100. If someone has a larger 5* roster, they will still need to work harder than the person with a large 6* roster to get top 100 and if they do that, then that player deserved it more.
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    jdrum663jdrum663 Posts: 551 ★★
    I'm not sure what to think about the upcoming arenas, I see valid points on both sides. I have done around 192k pvp fights until the last change (not a flex as there are guys with a lot more) and almost stopped doing any arena. I'm cautiously hopeful but a bit leery. My biggest concern is the death matches and near death matches. I'm afraid it won't matter what changes they make if we can't get a streak going for more than a few rounds. Just my opinion, I'm just very concerned about that. Thanks for reading!
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    hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 2,168 ★★★★★
    jdrum663 said:

    I'm not sure what to think about the upcoming arenas, I see valid points on both sides. I have done around 192k pvp fights until the last change (not a flex as there are guys with a lot more) and almost stopped doing any arena. I'm cautiously hopeful but a bit leery. My biggest concern is the death matches and near death matches. I'm afraid it won't matter what changes they make if we can't get a streak going for more than a few rounds. Just my opinion, I'm just very concerned about that. Thanks for reading!

    Assuming death matches stay the same as they have always been in the arena system. There's always been a work around. I've abstained from commenting on this for the most part for fear of disagree spam when all I'm trying to do is actually help. 🙂 I think with the new arena system many progressing players were exposed to them and it was new to them (a result of the new system) and they weren't used to dealing with/working around it. So, it caused unrest. Understandable so. But, even though it was new to them, death matches have been in the arena since the beginning. It's always just been a matter of learning the work around.

    Though, your number of pvp fights indicates you're no stranger to the arena. If you're familiar with the old Featured arenas, more specifically the old 5* Featured. I'd guess the death match criteria is probably identical. I only say guess because my roster eventually got to a point where it didn't affect me (because I could just enter my top champs while "building my streak", then continue to use high level champs throughout my grind). This is not necessary though. It's just one of the perks to roster progression. For years throughout my progression, I did in fact have to mindfully adhere to the criteria needed to avoid them. The concept is unchanged. It only scales up a little as higher ranks of champs become available in the game. When r4 6 eventually happen, it will scale up again slightly.

    Forgive me if you already know any of this, but I'm just gonna type it out in case you or anyone finds it helpful.

    Series 1-10: any champ that makes sense for your situation (fights will scale in PI, but there will be no actual death matches, yet)

    Series 11-15: This is first phase to be careful. Try to plan ahead and reserve your absolute top champs for these 5 series. The higher rank/rarity you enter, the more favorable of a match you will receive. Not only because your champs are stronger, but the game actually gives you easier matches as a direct result of entering high rank champs to begin with.

    Series 16-20: You still need to be careful here, but the criteria isn't as stringent as 11-15. Your teams do not necessarily need to be max 5/r2 or above, but make sure they are no lower than 4/55 (5 star) or (1/25) 6. If you *can* use higher, do it, but 4/55 and 1/25 should work.

    Series 21 and beyond: This begins the "infinite streak". From here, the requirements are less stringent, but they still exist. Your teams must have a minimum total PI. If you enter a team below this minium, you will receive a "death match". I believe the requirement is basically equivalent to maxed 4 star and 3/45 5 star. There may be lower combinations that still pass, but I will leave that to those who have more current knowledge on what the minimum "safe" team is currently. As I haven't really run any champs lower than that in some time.

    Anyway, just posting this in case it helps anyone.

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    hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 2,168 ★★★★★
    Additional info on death matches I left out: There were times in my early progression where I had to actually wait for cooldown to proceed all the way through fights 11- 20. Not saying it's fun, just saying that was the reality. In case there is anyone reading who says their roster doesn't support my advice above. In that case, wait for cool down is the additional work around. I know it sounds annoying, but that's how we got through it back in the day. If Kabam does something to improve the current criteria, that's Awesome. I'm all for folks having a better time than we did. I'm just giving the info for how to work around in the meantime.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,339 ★★★★★

    As we've been saying, at the end of the day, after hearing a good number of folks give counter arguments as to why they believe this is ok or acceptable, I still say there is no way to realistically call this anything other than a nerf to players rosters. With varying degrees of impact to each player depending on the amount of 6 star they have and have already become accustomed to using in the arenas.

    People are more focused on counter arguments to players that have 50, 100, 150 6 star. But the truth is, even if you have only one team of 3...you are being affected by this. You just haven't realized the scope of it yet, but I think you will eventually.

    There is no effect that goes outside of this specific Arena. The 6*s will give the same amount for everyone. The Arena has become a stepping stone. That's a good thing, considering there are only two Arenas for people to Grind, unless you actually need the Rewards in the Trials. Which it's safe to assume no one here posting does. Perhaps some, but not overall. There is no mass effect for future generations to come. It runs like any other Arena. The difference is people aren't getting a boosted score from 6*s in it.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,339 ★★★★★
    I'm sure people with scores of 6*s were looking forward to scooping up some easy Basics, but let's weigh needs against wants here.
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    CyricTheMaddCyricTheMadd Posts: 1
    I don't know if there is something wrong with my client or it's because of the New Arena Structure, but I don't get the featured Arena any more. All I get is the summoner trials Arena and the Catalyst Arena. There is no point to grinding in the Arenas anymore. No more 4 or 5 star shards. All I get for grinding now is the 2 star crystal. I mean, whats the point of playing anymore if I can't get something higher?
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    PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★

    I don't know if there is something wrong with my client or it's because of the New Arena Structure, but I don't get the featured Arena any more. All I get is the summoner trials Arena and the Catalyst Arena. There is no point to grinding in the Arenas anymore. No more 4 or 5 star shards. All I get for grinding now is the 2 star crystal. I mean, whats the point of playing anymore if I can't get something higher?

    Are you uncollected?
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,339 ★★★★★

    I'm sure people with scores of 6*s were looking forward to scooping up some easy Basics, but let's weigh needs against wants here.

    Considering a massive portion of milestone grinders do so to save units to buy holiday offers, let's pump the brakes on the needs vs wants for a sec here.
    Which they can still do without the boosts of 6*s. So...yeah. Needs versus wants.
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    WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★

    I'm sure people with scores of 6*s were looking forward to scooping up some easy Basics, but let's weigh needs against wants here.

    Considering a massive portion of milestone grinders do so to save units to buy holiday offers, let's pump the brakes on the needs vs wants for a sec here.
    Which they can still do without the boosts of 6*s. So...yeah. Needs versus wants.
    But they don't NEED to get those offers anymore than people with a bunch of 6*s NEED to get a basic 6* from arena. They're things both groups want. Yet you seem to think one group's wants matter more.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,339 ★★★★★

    I'm sure people with scores of 6*s were looking forward to scooping up some easy Basics, but let's weigh needs against wants here.

    Considering a massive portion of milestone grinders do so to save units to buy holiday offers, let's pump the brakes on the needs vs wants for a sec here.
    Which they can still do without the boosts of 6*s. So...yeah. Needs versus wants.
    But they don't NEED to get those offers anymore than people with a bunch of 6*s NEED to get a basic 6* from arena. They're things both groups want. Yet you seem to think one group's wants matter more.
    When you're talking about people being able to participate in any reasonable way in an Arena intended for many, many people....yes. That's a need. People need to Grind the Arena. They need more than Units, they need to be able to progress over time. More than the 1% needs another notch on their belt.
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    WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    They're both optional luxuries that are supplemental. They both take effort to actually get and with each system one group has to do more work to get them. Yet, you only see a problem with one of those groups having to do more work for them.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,339 ★★★★★
    One group has to do more work? Yes. The people who aren't stacked. They have to evolve their Rosters to get more Points over time. There's literally no victim in this scenario. It's the same as any other Arena, minus the boosted Points. So some people can't flip flop between Arenas to cherry pick the good ones. Hard life.
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