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New Arena Structure Feedback v2.0

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    AouxWouxAouxWoux Posts: 426 ★★★
    Gonna have to see it in action then can only offer any feedback.
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    Monk1Monk1 Posts: 748 ★★★★

    Monk1 said:

    All in a very typical response to people
    Who want stuff for nothing..reduce everything to lowest state.

    We saw Act 6 nerf’d cause it was ‘too hard’ and then act 7 came along (yes it’s fun) but it is over in about 2 days, cause people shout and moan if anything remotely tests skill and developed rosters

    Noone here is wanting more for less effort. Those grinding units still have to put in the same effort to reach the milestones. The reduction in 6* points sucks, but unless Kabam was willing to give higher units, it wouldnt make sense for them.
    The only person here who wants extra stuff for same effort is you tbh.
    Act 6 attack values were stupid. Inflating attack values is a dumb way to just make things harder.
    Don't want to get into that argument since it's never ending, but any new content is over in less than a week by endgamers. Doesn't matter what it is.
    I am taking effort in terms of overall game investment (as per @hungryhungrybbq point).

    I have paid my dues grinding 3/4* champs and struggling to make milestones with a small roster. I should be able to benefit from my investment, not be pegged back.

    Again I could not care less about 3/4* arena… I want the basic 6* to not be a dog if I want that champ.. and I want the extra milestones I. 6* feature, as will always be going to 25m anyways for the 1k shards.
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    Mr_PlatypusMr_Platypus Posts: 2,779 ★★★★★
    edited June 2021

    Last time I checked all the new players downloading the game aren't genetic clones of you so ... Why are you speaking for others ????
    Well that’s a pretty immature answer isn’t it, can’t think of anything constructive to say as a reply?

    I was just asking as a debate, want to see what I may be missing

    And btw my son plays the game so I guess I may be speaking for him??? I can see the struggles and pains

    This new structure could have been a great way for newer players to learn the game how to use dex, parries different combos but no it’s just a time grab.

    Tbh I find this change to be far better in that the time requirement is lower, much closer to the old 5 arena system in terms of time spent vs units gained, now I’m not a beginner so maybe the question wasn’t directed at me specifically but even with 53 6*s, hitting all milestones in both 5* arenas wasn’t feasible under the current 3 arena system which meant my units gained was drastically lower.
    Plus with summoner trials having a large number of units in earlier milestones it means I can still get a reasonable amount without having to go all in.
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    xNigxNig Posts: 7,260 ★★★★★
    Not to mention lower rarities have a much shorter cooldown, this means that if someone really wants the extra units, they can squeeze in more grinds a day.
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    2StarKing2StarKing Posts: 855 ★★★

    Top milestone just became that much harder to obtain....

    Greaaaat. Just great.

    Review the milestone chart and text in the announcement post please.
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    PocketNerdPocketNerd Posts: 43
    2StarKing said:

    Top milestone just became that much harder to obtain....

    Greaaaat. Just great.

    Review the milestone chart and text in the announcement post please.
    I did, over double points needed for top milestone for Summoners Trial and boost to 1/2* doesn't help if you don't have the time to use your entire team.
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    Mr_PlatypusMr_Platypus Posts: 2,779 ★★★★★
    Owlkit said:

    I am not happy about reducing 6 stars base in Basic Arenas doesn't seem fair to those of us who have worked on getting a strong 6* roster but I'll see how it goes.

    It’s only 4mil, like 3 rounds of maxed 5*s if your roster is as stacked as you are saying.
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    Mr_PlatypusMr_Platypus Posts: 2,779 ★★★★★
    able21 said:

    Can't wait to see how everyone feels about the changes when they keep getting death squads in the basic arena when they are trying to use their lower lvl champs. Might not be a issue but we will see.

    Can’t get death squads if you only use ranked up champs.
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    able21able21 Posts: 13

    able21 said:

    Can't wait to see how everyone feels about the changes when they keep getting death squads in the basic arena when they are trying to use their lower lvl champs. Might not be a issue but we will see.

    Can’t get death squads if you only use ranked up champs.
    That's why I said "when they are trying to use lower lvl champs".
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    Ryder8972Ryder8972 Posts: 2
    This still does not solve the issue where player with less 6* heroes/ no 6* heroes have to fight death match @Kabam Miike . Anything for that ?
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    hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 2,122 ★★★★★
    edited June 2021

    Wait.....so because they came up with a solution that accommodates the issues presented, and still facilitates those with larger Rosters, people think this hurts people? I'd like to know what logic that stems from.
    The Featured Arena is the same. The Basic allows people who aren't sitting on stacked 6* Rosters to benefit from it. The previous system was hurting far more people because the Milestones weren't attainable to the majority of people playing.
    This was in the interest of fairness. That's the problem with these compromises. If a group of Players aren't benefitting at the expense of everyone else, it's called a snub. Here's a newsflash. There's a 95% playing below the 5%.

    Define "facilitate those with large roster". By facilitate, do you mean being told the 6* champs you spent years working for are now useless in the one arena you were interested in doing? And if you want to participate in said arena you now have to revert back in your progression to focusing on 5 star champs? Even though the *old/outdated* system allow us to use 6 stars? The new updated version (which actually allows you to earn a 6 star now) has now rendered our 6 stars useless all to make it grindable for units?

    Your missing the whole point with your "at the expense of others" rederick. All I want is a system that's fair for everyone. Literally, all my posts have been about that.

    I maintain my point. I believe it is absolutely possible to make it so folks can both grind units for a reasonable effort without resorting to nerfing the roster of an entire segment of the player base. I'm sorry, but this is not the best solution to accomplish this. Surely there's another way.
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    hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 2,122 ★★★★★

    Owlkit said:

    I am not happy about reducing 6 stars base in Basic Arenas doesn't seem fair to those of us who have worked on getting a strong 6* roster but I'll see how it goes.

    It’s only 4mil, like 3 rounds of maxed 5*s if your roster is as stacked as you are saying.
    For sure, this doesn't take into account folks who were looking forward to occasionally grinding for a basic champ is all.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,306 ★★★★★

    Wait.....so because they came up with a solution that accommodates the issues presented, and still facilitates those with larger Rosters, people think this hurts people? I'd like to know what logic that stems from.
    The Featured Arena is the same. The Basic allows people who aren't sitting on stacked 6* Rosters to benefit from it. The previous system was hurting far more people because the Milestones weren't attainable to the majority of people playing.
    This was in the interest of fairness. That's the problem with these compromises. If a group of Players aren't benefitting at the expense of everyone else, it's called a snub. Here's a newsflash. There's a 95% playing below the 5%.

    Define "facilitate those with large roster". By facilitate, do you mean being told the 6* champs you spent years working for are now useless in the one arena you were interested in doing? And if you want to participate in said arena you now have to revert back in your progression to focusing on 5 star champs? Even though the *old/outdated* system allow us to use 6 stars? The new updated version (which actually allows you to earn a 6 star now) has now rendered our 6 stars useless all to make it grindable for units?

    Your missing the whole point with your "at the expense of others" rederick. All I want is a system that's fair for everyone. Literally, all my posts have been about that.

    I maintain my point. I believe it is absolutely possible to make it so folks can both grind units for a reasonable effort without resorting to nerfing the roster of an entire segment of the player base. I'm sorry, but this is not the best solution to accomplish this. Surely there's another way.
    Because we all know those Rosters are in need of a Basic 6* more than people are in need of being included in Grinding overall. The mentality is that these new Arenas serve the top, so the rest should accommodate. Sorry, but there are other people playing the game as well, and they have needs.
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    KnightZeroKnightZero Posts: 1,418 ★★★★★
    edited June 2021

    Monk1 said:

    Monk1 said:

    All in a very typical response to people
    Who want stuff for nothing..reduce everything to lowest state.

    We saw Act 6 nerf’d cause it was ‘too hard’ and then act 7 came along (yes it’s fun) but it is over in about 2 days, cause people shout and moan if anything remotely tests skill and developed rosters

    Noone here is wanting more for less effort. Those grinding units still have to put in the same effort to reach the milestones. The reduction in 6* points sucks, but unless Kabam was willing to give higher units, it wouldnt make sense for them.
    The only person here who wants extra stuff for same effort is you tbh.
    Act 6 attack values were stupid. Inflating attack values is a dumb way to just make things harder.
    Don't want to get into that argument since it's never ending, but any new content is over in less than a week by endgamers. Doesn't matter what it is.
    I am taking effort in terms of overall game investment (as per @hungryhungrybbq point).

    I have paid my dues grinding 3/4* champs and struggling to make milestones with a small roster. I should be able to benefit from my investment, not be pegged back.

    Again I could not care less about 3/4* arena… I want the basic 6* to not be a dog if I want that champ.. and I want the extra milestones I. 6* feature, as will always be going to 25m anyways for the 1k shards.
    Yeah, it's unfortunate. But the forum sometimes gets overrun by newer players, some of whom only really care about things affect *them* and don't seem to care about how it affects others. Not all, just some. They have the mistaken perception that they represent 99% of the player base. I've actually seen multiple posts in last thread that said.. "this is only good for 1%..." etc. I think this perception comes from that fact that they are just more vocal about it. Which leads them to believe only 1% of the player base is composed of veteran players. 🙂

    When the system was really bad for them, I never spammed disagrees on their posts as they are doing to ours now. As a veteran player, the new system was fine for me, but I actually agreed that it was very bad for them and was all in favor of fixing it. Again, even though it didn't affect me, I actually was giving real thought and time into trying come up with ideas of how to fix it... to help *them*. Now, when we are the ones who are getting burnt by a new system, it's "Wow, this is great!" And spamming disagree on posts that we make with sincere concerns about the new system now. Simply because they don't want *their* version of arena to be taken away.

    This is kind of what I was afraid of. In the previous thread I kept seeing suggestions given that would simply just turn the tables on veteran players and make arenas worse for them instead. I'd like to believe it's because they just didn't realize that their ideas would hurt our experience in an effort to fix their own, but unfortunately.. for some anyway, I think it's more that they just don't care. So long as it's fixed *for them*. I tried explaining why some of these "fixes" could hurt veteran players. And tried to come up with solutions that could help everyone. It doesn't have to be fixed for one group of players and broken for others. I still believe there's a solution for everyone.

    It kind of all ties into this "us" vs "them" dynamic I've seen here in the forum. Ftp and/or newer players refer to anyone who has a nice roster as "whales". It's ridiculous. I've never seen the word misused so much. Veteran player doesn't equal "whale". BG is a veteran player... Please stop randomly tossing the word whale around. There are many of us who worked very hard to earn our rosters over years.. but they just say.. "let the whales have the Featured arena..." Suggesting all veteran players are A: whales (which has become such a negative term the way they use it..like an insult..) First of all, I have alliance mates and friends who are at least mini whales. And they are some of the nicest people you'll ever talk to. Who actually enjoy giving advice to newer players and paying it forward, etc. And guess what, a lot of "whales" are actually very very skilled players and they grind the game hard as well. Some people have this illusion that Whales aren't skilled or don't work for what they have. It's just not true in a lot of cases.

    And B: Suggests they don't have the right to use the roster they've worked for in whichever arena they choose. Why does our roster have to be outright nerfed to participate in a basic arena? Especially for those of us who actually wanted to compete for a champ in the Basic. You're telling us were not welcome in it? Or it's not for for us? "Just take your filthy whale roster and go do the Featured...you..whale!" Lol, it's so dumb. You want me to actually go back backwards in progression to use 5 star champs to compete for a 6 star champ now? When the old outdated system was using 6 star to go for 5 star? 😂 I just can't fathom how anyone doesn't see how backwards this is.
    Just saying that both of you may seem to be advocating for the same point, but your motives are completely different. I definitely sympathize with your issue. You weren't happy with the old one, aren't happy with this one since your 6* roster isn't as useful when grinding for a 6* Basic as would be.
    He wants the old arena since he got more units grinding his normal way and doesn't care if others don't get it.

    Tbh, if they still wanted to keep the old milestones, it would be an issue with quite a few of the people grinding for units as long as they loaded the top with the units.
    Might have to alter the number since the previous version was **** for the 4* one though.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,306 ★★★★★
    edited June 2021

    Wait.....so because they came up with a solution that accommodates the issues presented, and still facilitates those with larger Rosters, people think this hurts people? I'd like to know what logic that stems from.
    The Featured Arena is the same. The Basic allows people who aren't sitting on stacked 6* Rosters to benefit from it. The previous system was hurting far more people because the Milestones weren't attainable to the majority of people playing.
    This was in the interest of fairness. That's the problem with these compromises. If a group of Players aren't benefitting at the expense of everyone else, it's called a snub. Here's a newsflash. There's a 95% playing below the 5%.

    Define "facilitate those with large roster". By facilitate, do you mean being told the 6* champs you spent years working for are now useless in the one arena you were interested in doing? And if you want to participate in said arena you now have to revert back in your progression to focusing on 5 star champs? Even though the *old/outdated* system allow us to use 6 stars? The new updated version (which actually allows you to earn a 6 star now) has now rendered our 6 stars useless all to make it grindable for units?

    Your missing the whole point with your "at the expense of others" rederick. All I want is a system that's fair for everyone. Literally, all my posts have been about that.

    I maintain my point. I believe it is absolutely possible to make it so folks can both grind units for a reasonable effort without resorting to nerfing the roster of an entire segment of the player base. I'm sorry, but this is not the best solution to accomplish this. Surely there's another way.
    Because we all know those Rosters are in need of a Basic 6* more than people are in need of being included in Grinding overall. The mentality is that these new Arenas serve the top, so the rest should accommodate. Sorry, but there are other people playing the game as well, and they have needs.
    Lol, still not commenting on my actual point. That there are absolutely other, better ways of returning the same access to units to smaller rosters without nerfing the rosters of others. Simple as that. Why is it always an "us vs "them" melodrama?

    Also, as usual, you are unwilling to part with your divisive talking points such as "rich get richer" "step on the little guy" type slogans long enough to have a intelligent conversation based in reality or truth. The truth is that I never advocated for arena 2.0. I gave a ton of feedback or ideas on how to fix it for progressing players. Even though it didn't affect me negatively. Now, they've fixed it for them (kind of), but it didn't have to be by nerfing another set of players rosters. There's another way. That's my point.

    And for the record, I don't dislike progressing players or something absurd like that. But some of them seem to dislike us older players for some reason. I actually created a relaxed sister alliance where both veteran players who wanted a break and progressing players are playing together and having fun. It's been great.Guess what, we all respect each other and get along just fine. This whole false divisiveness being created between progressing and veteran players in threads like these is uncalled for and toxic.
    So were Units the only concern for people playing? Tell me, what of the people who aren't sitting on 100 6*s. Where does their gaming experience come into play for an Arena they can't hit Milestones in or think of competing with? Seeing as how Kabam has made it clear that they're only sticking to the 3-Arena format, should the rest of people just settle for the Units and not have a chance to progress their Rosters as well? The perspective of people bothered by this is entirely unilateral, and there is a range of Players in between Johnny Newbie and Jimmy Roster. So again, other people are playing that have needs and concerns besides the acquisition of Basics for people who have a plethora of 6*s. Compromise. Can't have it all.
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    hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 2,122 ★★★★★

    Monk1 said:

    Monk1 said:

    All in a very typical response to people
    Who want stuff for nothing..reduce everything to lowest state.

    We saw Act 6 nerf’d cause it was ‘too hard’ and then act 7 came along (yes it’s fun) but it is over in about 2 days, cause people shout and moan if anything remotely tests skill and developed rosters

    Noone here is wanting more for less effort. Those grinding units still have to put in the same effort to reach the milestones. The reduction in 6* points sucks, but unless Kabam was willing to give higher units, it wouldnt make sense for them.
    The only person here who wants extra stuff for same effort is you tbh.
    Act 6 attack values were stupid. Inflating attack values is a dumb way to just make things harder.
    Don't want to get into that argument since it's never ending, but any new content is over in less than a week by endgamers. Doesn't matter what it is.
    I am taking effort in terms of overall game investment (as per @hungryhungrybbq point).

    I have paid my dues grinding 3/4* champs and struggling to make milestones with a small roster. I should be able to benefit from my investment, not be pegged back.

    Again I could not care less about 3/4* arena… I want the basic 6* to not be a dog if I want that champ.. and I want the extra milestones I. 6* feature, as will always be going to 25m anyways for the 1k shards.
    Yeah, it's unfortunate. But the forum sometimes gets overrun by newer players, some of whom only really care about things affect *them* and don't seem to care about how it affects others. Not all, just some. They have the mistaken perception that they represent 99% of the player base. I've actually seen multiple posts in last thread that said.. "this is only good for 1%..." etc. I think this perception comes from that fact that they are just more vocal about it. Which leads them to believe only 1% of the player base is composed of veteran players. 🙂

    When the system was really bad for them, I never spammed disagrees on their posts as they are doing to ours now. As a veteran player, the new system was fine for me, but I actually agreed that it was very bad for them and was all in favor of fixing it. Again, even though it didn't affect me, I actually was giving real thought and time into trying come up with ideas of how to fix it... to help *them*. Now, when we are the ones who are getting burnt by a new system, it's "Wow, this is great!" And spamming disagree on posts that we make with sincere concerns about the new system now. Simply because they don't want *their* version of arena to be taken away.

    This is kind of what I was afraid of. In the previous thread I kept seeing suggestions given that would simply just turn the tables on veteran players and make arenas worse for them instead. I'd like to believe it's because they just didn't realize that their ideas would hurt our experience in an effort to fix their own, but unfortunately.. for some anyway, I think it's more that they just don't care. So long as it's fixed *for them*. I tried explaining why some of these "fixes" could hurt veteran players. And tried to come up with solutions that could help everyone. It doesn't have to be fixed for one group of players and broken for others. I still believe there's a solution for everyone.

    It kind of all ties into this "us" vs "them" dynamic I've seen here in the forum. Ftp and/or newer players refer to anyone who has a nice roster as "whales". It's ridiculous. I've never seen the word misused so much. Veteran player doesn't equal "whale". BG is a veteran player... Please stop randomly tossing the word whale around. There are many of us who worked very hard to earn our rosters over years.. but they just say.. "let the whales have the Featured arena..." Suggesting all veteran players are A: whales (which has become such a negative term the way they use it..like an insult..) First of all, I have alliance mates and friends who are at least mini whales. And they are some of the nicest people you'll ever talk to. Who actually enjoy giving advice to newer players and paying it forward, etc. And guess what, a lot of "whales" are actually very very skilled players and they grind the game hard as well. Some people have this illusion that Whales aren't skilled or don't work for what they have. It's just not true in a lot of cases.

    And B: Suggests they don't have the right to use the roster they've worked for in whichever arena they choose. Why does our roster have to be outright nerfed to participate in a basic arena? Especially for those of us who actually wanted to compete for a champ in the Basic. You're telling us were not welcome in it? Or it's not for for us? "Just take your filthy whale roster and go do the Featured...you..whale!" Lol, it's so dumb. You want me to actually go back backwards in progression to use 5 star champs to compete for a 6 star champ now? When the old outdated system was using 6 star to go for 5 star? 😂 I just can't fathom how anyone doesn't see how backwards this is.
    Just saying that both of you may seem to be advocating for the same point, but your motives are completely different. I definitely sympathize with your issue. You weren't happy with the old one, aren't happy with this one since your 6* roster isn't as useful when grinding for a 6* Basic as would be.
    He wants the old arena since he got more units grinding his normal way and doesn't care if others don't get it.

    Tbh, if they still wanted to keep the old milestones, it would be an issue with quite a few of the people grinding for units as long as they loaded the top with the units.
    Might have to alter the number since the previous version was **** for the 4* one though.
    Yeah man, I just want things to be fair for everyone. My sincere hope is that the folks who are disagreeing with those of us voicing disappointment over the removal of 6 star use (yes, it might as well be removal as they are now weaker than 5 star because of the cooldown) from the basic arena just haven't seen the issue from our side yet.

    To try to explain it a different way... To me, and I think others like me, it feels like I'm being forced out of the arena I was most interested in playing. Just as progressing players felt like they were being forced out of the unit based milestones they were used to. It's really not that different. I've given it some thought, and I still don't think I'm making this up. It really does seem, both by Kabam's actions and progressing players words, that they are both suggesting that the Featured Arena is the place for veterans to go. And the Basic Arena is for progressing players. That only works if both of those groups of players specifically only wanted to do the arenas that are "meant" for them. I'm sorry, what if I don't want to do the Featured arena? I feel like my choice to use my roster (at it's full potential) in whichever arena I like has been taken away from me. Am I technically being forbidden to grind the basic? No, but I'm being told if I choose to do so now, I'm doing it with a huge nerf to former potential. I'm not being actually forced into the Featured arena, but more... I'm being told that if I want to use the roster I've spent time building to its full potential, that's the only choice I have left now.

    And, ask yourselves this question. Why would Kabam leave the ability to use 6 star in the basic, but nerf them instead? To a point where they are actually less valuable than 5 star based on the cooldown. Why not just remove them? It's because they realized just how ridiculous of a concept it would be if you can't use 6 star champs to grind for 6 star champs. So, they left them in there, as an empty gesture to attempt to make it look not as ridiculous.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,306 ★★★★★
    It's not like they give 0 Points. They've already explained that they were scaling it to be more in line. You also can't just set a cool down for one Arena and not the other, so that would increase scores in the Featured. They did the best they could with the situation and concerns of as many as possible. That's about it.
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