Time to Tweak the TB Daily?

SoP will usher in a slew of new TBs. 6* shards are as prevalent as they’ve ever been. R4 champs are here.

Not quite a year, and the TB Daily has been a decent addition. But does its prize breakdown still make sense in late 2021 MCoC? Or should it be tweaked to align with the roster demands of TB players?

Here’s my personal experience with just under 6 months of TB Daily crystals—overall odds are in the top table followed by total monthly hauls below:

Good, especially for a free crystal and especially to a new TB, but over a longer haul nothing special—basically a regular T4b/T4c stream with some T2a shards and a once in a while random pull of T5 tossed in.

I realize it’s not enough data to mail down everything statistically, but it should be more than sufficient for solid directional drop rates, recurrences, etc. Some items I have no drops in my history (T5c, 6*), so I can only assume these are quite rare.

Before offering some ideas, a few thoughts. First, no daily should be a jackpot crystal—it’s a different version of a login prize and shouldn’t carry things like 6* AGs or T6b or T3a—but it should still be useful to TBs. Many end-endgame players won’t really care one way or another, since they are often flush on many of the items trickled out via the Daily, and some players who have had obscene luck will see nothing wrong with the current Daily formula. Finally, changes to the game since the introduction of TB have made the current drop breakout much less relevant to TBs, which will always be the case, but it shouldn’t be that way for something pitched as the game’s titular pinnacle.

I will offer a few ideas—some are better than others, and all are intended make the Daily more relevant. All of them together would be too much, but a few would improve the Daily without breaking the game.

1) Get rid of partial T4b and T4c catalysts.
Currently, 18K shards is possible for both T4b and T4c. Remove the option of shard T4 and replace with full T4 cats only—to the extent TBs need T4 (and often it is T4b), shards only go so far.

2) Upgrade T2a drops to full or 50% T2a.
Again, removing the lower 25% T2a option. Given the quantity of T2a needed to R2 6*’s, not to mention the viable 5* champs in game, making the Daily a steady source of T2a might be a welcome change.

3) Remove 5* Champs as an option.
Do random 5* champs serve a purpose to someone building a TB roster? Apart from the ISO and 6* shards, probably not.

4) Include 5* rankup gems as rare drops. A different way to help T2a/T5b squeeze. This could be a 3–>4 gem with a rarer 4–>5 gem.

5) Sprinkle more 6* shards. Currently, as far as I’m aware, there’s only a 10K 6* shard option. (can’t say as I’ve never pulled any from a Daily). Sprinkling in 100, 250, 500, 1000 6* shards as rare drops would be a potential option. But there are ample ways to get 6* in game already, so perhaps unneeded.

6) Remove or upgrade Units as a prize. The units amount is tiny, relatively speaking (I believe I got 20 units once). Either remove them completely, increase the amount or increase the drop frequency.

7) Add 6* Sig Stones. One of the rarest items in game—this could be another rare drop. Useful to all TBs.

Feel free to pick apart. Just intended to be a thought starter, not an all-inclusive plan. But I personally would like to see a little more utility from the TB Daily and a little less of the items that are already very common in game.
It is a Daily, so nothing should be game-breaking. But it feels a little light to me given where the game is today.

Dr. Zola

Comments

Jaded

Nice to see I’m not the only one that hasn’t pulled the 6* shards or T5cc.

#4 is very interesting and would be very cool to get. Even if it wasn’t 6* based, a r2-3 or 3-4 5* rank up gem would be helpful.

Definitely increase the 6* and t5cc drop rates or sprinkle in smaller amounts as well.

Kabam has a method of waiting too long to update crystals. (Looking at those war crystals 🤮) It would be nice to see upgrades even small ones more frequently.

Glassback

I’ve been thronebreaker for a week and although free daily prizes are always nice, the majority of the openings don’t have a huge worth to a new thronebreaker, so can imagine you guys who have done nearly a year would see hardly any benefit.

I find the 4hfree crystals of more use as I’ve had a lot of revives in there.

TheBair123

Disclaimer: I've only been TB for two weeks now.

My opinion on the TB basic is that it seems a lot more enticing than it actually is. Of course the reel is full of 5* champs, and the real percentage of pulling a champ is probably around 2%. Also, I constantly have t4cc, t4b, and sometimes even t2a expiring. I don't really need tier 4 catalysts, and I haven't for a long time. That said, it's a free crystal where all you need to do is log in. I think the best case scenario is actually that the daily crystal is kept the same, and a thronebreaker objective crystal is created. This could have 6* shards, ISO, t1a, t2a, potential for rank up gems, and sig stones.

Demonzfyre

If you want 5*'s removed, why would you want 5* rank up gems?

%*'s are still viable for a good majority of TB players. Remember, all you need is one run through act 6 and a R3 6*. I'm seeing more and more TB players with severely underdeveloped rosters. Many of these single R3 6*'s TB's still rely heavily on 5*'s. I've pull 3 5*'s from there since becoming TB last year so it's not like we're swimming in 5* daily pulls but I also wouldn't care if they were pulled either.

I agree we need more full T4CC/T4B.

I don't think we include 6* sig stones as everyone is still complaining about max sig 6*'s not rewarding anything.

I don't pull units enough ever to care that they are in there so I can take them or leave them.

Everything else you said is fine.

Jaded

If you want 5*'s removed, why would you want 5* rank up gems?

%*'s are still viable for a good majority of TB players. Remember, all you need is one run through act 6 and a R3 6*. I'm seeing more and more TB players with severely underdeveloped rosters. Many of these single R3 6*'s TB's still rely heavily on 5*'s. I've pull 3 5*'s from there since becoming TB last year so it's not like we're swimming in 5* daily pulls but I also wouldn't care if they were pulled either.

I agree we need more full T4CC/T4B.

I don't think we include 6* sig stones as everyone is still complaining about max sig 6*'s not rewarding anything.

I don't pull units enough ever to care that they are in there so I can take them or leave them.

Everything else you said is fine.

5* rank up gems would be helpful to mitigate the rank up woes. 6* r1-2 take t4cc, t2a and t4bc, the same resources needed to r3-4 a 5*. So those that need a specific champion but doesn’t have it as a 6* has to throw resources at the 5* version, or hopefully land a rank up gem.

Demonzfyre

If you want 5*'s removed, why would you want 5* rank up gems?

%*'s are still viable for a good majority of TB players. Remember, all you need is one run through act 6 and a R3 6*. I'm seeing more and more TB players with severely underdeveloped rosters. Many of these single R3 6*'s TB's still rely heavily on 5*'s. I've pull 3 5*'s from there since becoming TB last year so it's not like we're swimming in 5* daily pulls but I also wouldn't care if they were pulled either.

I agree we need more full T4CC/T4B.

I don't think we include 6* sig stones as everyone is still complaining about max sig 6*'s not rewarding anything.

I don't pull units enough ever to care that they are in there so I can take them or leave them.

Everything else you said is fine.
5* rank up gems would be helpful to mitigate the rank up woes. 6* r1-2 take t4cc, t2a and t4bc, the same resources needed to r3-4 a 5*. So those that need a specific champion but doesn’t have it as a 6* has to throw resources at the 5* version, or hopefully land a rank up gem.

That's true about the rank-up gems. Me personally, i've just not ranked any 5* unless it's just for the Thronebreaker Sigil objective.

DrZola

If you want 5*'s removed, why would you want 5* rank up gems?

%*'s are still viable for a good majority of TB players. Remember, all you need is one run through act 6 and a R3 6*. I'm seeing more and more TB players with severely underdeveloped rosters. Many of these single R3 6*'s TB's still rely heavily on 5*'s. I've pull 3 5*'s from there since becoming TB last year so it's not like we're swimming in 5* daily pulls but I also wouldn't care if they were pulled either.

I agree we need more full T4CC/T4B.

I don't think we include 6* sig stones as everyone is still complaining about max sig 6*'s not rewarding anything.

I don't pull units enough ever to care that they are in there so I can take them or leave them.

Everything else you said is fine.
5* rank up gems would be helpful to mitigate the rank up woes. 6* r1-2 take t4cc, t2a and t4bc, the same resources needed to r3-4 a 5*. So those that need a specific champion but doesn’t have it as a 6* has to throw resources at the 5* version, or hopefully land a rank up gem.

This was my thinking. It’s less a champ acquisition tweak and more of a catalyst acquisition tweak. I’d actually be fine if the daily was more focused on catalysts anyway.

I often find myself looking at the awakened 5* of a champ (who doesn’t necessarily need awakening) and the 6* version of the same champ and debating who gets the nod. It’s also an all too common feeling to rank the 5* and then find the same champ springing from your next 6* crystal.

Dr. Zola

Jaded

If you want 5*'s removed, why would you want 5* rank up gems?

%*'s are still viable for a good majority of TB players. Remember, all you need is one run through act 6 and a R3 6*. I'm seeing more and more TB players with severely underdeveloped rosters. Many of these single R3 6*'s TB's still rely heavily on 5*'s. I've pull 3 5*'s from there since becoming TB last year so it's not like we're swimming in 5* daily pulls but I also wouldn't care if they were pulled either.

I agree we need more full T4CC/T4B.

I don't think we include 6* sig stones as everyone is still complaining about max sig 6*'s not rewarding anything.

I don't pull units enough ever to care that they are in there so I can take them or leave them.

Everything else you said is fine.
5* rank up gems would be helpful to mitigate the rank up woes. 6* r1-2 take t4cc, t2a and t4bc, the same resources needed to r3-4 a 5*. So those that need a specific champion but doesn’t have it as a 6* has to throw resources at the 5* version, or hopefully land a rank up gem.
That's true about the rank-up gems. Me personally, i've just not ranked any 5* unless it's just for the Thronebreaker Sigil objective.

That as well, that goal and the level up solo goal is when I use rank up gems.

ItsDamien

Been TB since before Christmas. Never had any 5 or 6* shards. Got one 5* Champ. Had a couple of T5B and a couple of T2A, and I think T5CC frags once. Everything else has been majority T4B frags, T4CC frags and occasionally T2A frags.

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odishika123

They should tweak the cavalier dalies 1st

H3t3r

I wouldn't even mind seeing some t4cc frag selectors instead. If thats possible.

DrZola

They should tweak the cavalier dalies 1st

Tweak them both. How would you change the Cav dailies?

Dr. Zola

Colinwhitworth69

Not that I am arguing against making them even better, but these dailies are amazing, especially compared with what you get as a Cavalier player. I am mostly interested in rank up materials, and those are super prevalent.

SkyLord7000

3) Remove 5* Champs as an option.
Do random 5* champs serve a purpose to someone building a TB roster? Apart from the ISO and 6* shards, probably not.
Dr. Zola

Right now I value ISO more then anything as a TB, and always feel good about pulling a 5* when it does land on one. But most of what you said I like. Change or not this is the best update I’ve seen to a progression crystal ever and actually enjoy opening them for once. So buff/no buff I’ll be happy

SkyLord7000

I've never ever pulled the 10k 6 star shards and neither has any thronebreaker I know. It's such ridiculously low odds for a huge prize.

Imo it should be 20× more likely to pull but reduced to like 1k shards so it's not an all or nothing pull

I like the idea of a “jackpot feeling” I’d rather take a 5* over 1k 6* shards

DrZola

Not that I am arguing against making them even better, but these dailies are amazing, especially compared with what you get as a Cavalier player. I am mostly interested in rank up materials, and those are super prevalent.

They are undoubtedly better, and they should be. The step from
Cav to TB is way bigger than UC to Cav.

I think my preference is for a little boost to the low end prizes and elimination of the prizes that make little sense (units, for example).

My run rate is about 2 T2a and one T5b a month from Dailies, which is ok but once you consider most of what I’m ranking is 5/6*’s it contributes only a little. Even T4b gets in short supply—TBs don’t usually need a couple of T4b, they need several. And I have to admit I’m loath to spend Glory on T4b.

I think @SkyLord7000 suggestion for a whopping amount of ISO once in a while is actionable. I would be open to that.

To the folks who have tapped Agree, Like, or Disagree, but haven’t said anything, what specifically do you like or dislike? Do you consider the Dailies fine as is? Do you have other ideas?

Dr. Zola

Varad18

I have pulled T4 Basic Frags everyday! I got so happy yesterday when I pulled T4CC Frags 😢

Panchulon21

Definitely agree. I’ve been thronebreaker since day 1 of launch and I’ve pulled 1, 10k 6 star shards, units a few times and never T5cc. The rest have been 5 star champs (think 4-5), and a bunch of t5b so those are nice. The rest the usual things everyone else pulls.

I would welcome more 6 star shards, more t5cc and higher increase in units. I feel like units (next to sig stones) is where Kabam is the most stingiest.

DNA3000

So in terms of judging if the TB daily crystal contents make sense, one thing I would look at is the average value of the crystal over time, say a month. Since we don't have published drop odds for the crystal, I have to estimate from my drop data. This is what I would get in a 30 day month, assuming I opened one daily per day reliably (I don't, but this assumes I do):

So about six T4B, four T4CC, two and a half T2A, most of a T5B, and a few thousand 5* shards. It is roughly in the same ballpark as Zola's numbers, and overall that seems extremely good for what amounts to a calendar with some extra fetch mechanics. In terms of pure overall value, I see no obvious need to increase the value of the crystals.

In terms of 5* champs and units, the drop odds for those appear to be sufficiently low that deleting them or changing them would have no significant impact on the crystal value. The only reward that has any questionable value and sufficiently high drop odds to matter are the 5k 5* shards, and I think even Thronebreakers could use those. As it adds some variety to the drops without materially hurting the value of the crystal overall, I don't feel compelled to change those.

Another interesting question to contemplate is: how relevant has the TB daily been to my roster progress? Well, at the moment I have eight R3s. I'm sitting on catalysts (I have four T5CC formed, for example) so I could have more. Let's say I have eleven "virtual" R3s total. The total stuff in the daily TB crystals has collectively given me enough materials to do about one full R1->R3 rank up (at least). So you could argue that in terms of 6* rank ups the daily TB crystal is responsible for about 9% of my roster rank up velocity. That's also not bad for a free daily crystal. And I've only opened 89% of all possible daily crystals (because of daily drift I miss a crystal here and there).

Jaded

So in terms of judging if the TB daily crystal contents make sense, one thing I would look at is the average value of the crystal over time, say a month. Since we don't have published drop odds for the crystal, I have to estimate from my drop data. This is what I would get in a 30 day month, assuming I opened one daily per day reliably (I don't, but this assumes I do):

So about six T4B, four T4CC, two and a half T2A, most of a T5B, and a few thousand 5* shards. It is roughly in the same ballpark as Zola's numbers, and overall that seems extremely good for what amounts to a calendar with some extra fetch mechanics. In terms of pure overall value, I see no obvious need to increase the value of the crystals.

In terms of 5* champs and units, the drop odds for those appear to be sufficiently low that deleting them or changing them would have no significant impact on the crystal value. The only reward that has any questionable value and sufficiently high drop odds to matter are the 5k 5* shards, and I think even Thronebreakers could use those. As it adds some variety to the drops without materially hurting the value of the crystal overall, I don't feel compelled to change those.

Another interesting question to contemplate is: how relevant has the TB daily been to my roster progress? Well, at the moment I have eight R3s. I'm sitting on catalysts (I have four T5CC formed, for example) so I could have more. Let's say I have eleven "virtual" R3s total. The total stuff in the daily TB crystals has collectively given me enough materials to do about one full R1->R3 rank up (at least). So you could argue that in terms of 6* rank ups the daily TB crystal is responsible for about 9% of my roster rank up velocity. That's also not bad for a free daily crystal. And I've only opened 89% of all possible daily crystals (because of daily drift I miss a crystal here and there).

You don’t have 6* shards on the chart…?

Fit_Fun9329

Jep, agree. I am TB since it came out and never pulled 6* shards. But, on the other hand, I have roundabout 110 of those crystals. Mostly t4cc and t5b in this crystal, I open them, when i need resources

DrZola

So in terms of judging if the TB daily crystal contents make sense, one thing I would look at is the average value of the crystal over time, say a month. Since we don't have published drop odds for the crystal, I have to estimate from my drop data. This is what I would get in a 30 day month, assuming I opened one daily per day reliably (I don't, but this assumes I do):

So about six T4B, four T4CC, two and a half T2A, most of a T5B, and a few thousand 5* shards. It is roughly in the same ballpark as Zola's numbers, and overall that seems extremely good for what amounts to a calendar with some extra fetch mechanics. In terms of pure overall value, I see no obvious need to increase the value of the crystals.

In terms of 5* champs and units, the drop odds for those appear to be sufficiently low that deleting them or changing them would have no significant impact on the crystal value. The only reward that has any questionable value and sufficiently high drop odds to matter are the 5k 5* shards, and I think even Thronebreakers could use those. As it adds some variety to the drops without materially hurting the value of the crystal overall, I don't feel compelled to change those.

Another interesting question to contemplate is: how relevant has the TB daily been to my roster progress? Well, at the moment I have eight R3s. I'm sitting on catalysts (I have four T5CC formed, for example) so I could have more. Let's say I have eleven "virtual" R3s total. The total stuff in the daily TB crystals has collectively given me enough materials to do about one full R1->R3 rank up (at least). So you could argue that in terms of 6* rank ups the daily TB crystal is responsible for about 9% of my roster rank up velocity. That's also not bad for a free daily crystal. And I've only opened 89% of all possible daily crystals (because of daily drift I miss a crystal here and there).

That’s an interesting way of looking at it. I appreciate your analysis.

If I understand correctly, the current rates of catalyst accumulation would suggest enough of the most common “high cats” (T5b/T2a—I’m
excluding T4b/T4c) to take a 6* from rank 1 to 3 every 6+ months. Looking at my drop rates, I’m a little ahead on sufficiency of T2a (6.1 months) and behind on sufficiency of T5b (7.2 months).

Obviously, I’m also excluding any mention of T5c here because the Daily isn’t a reasonable source of T5c. Sufficient T5c has to be gotten elsewhere.

And like you, I’ve missed more than a week here and there—plus I’ve lost probably several entries at the beginning of TB as well as for other reasons (none, I would add that were “high cats”—entry loss tends to happen for me with T4b/c results, so if anything I’m understating how often those drops present for me).

I would expect that at the current Daily drop rates, your velocity % will likely decline further. A crystal that dropped enough T5b and T2a to take a new 6* to R3 every 6+ months will have a very different impact on a DNA roster from late 2020 versus a DNA roster in late summer 2021.

So if we can stipulate that the TB Daily provides almost enough T2a and almost enough T5b every half year to take a single 6* from R1 to R3–does that sound like the right amount for where the game is for TBs today?

Dr. Zola

Sceptilemaniac

I personally just think inclusion of 3-5 tier 5 iso bricks of random class would be good. There is def an iso shortage

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Ercarret

I like a lot of these suggestions. I'm still a newly-minted TBer so I'm pretty happy with the rewards as-is, but I can see how they could use a bump the further you get in your TBing.

One thought regarding the rank-up gems. I think it's a great idea, but if Kabam finds the idea a bit too potent, what about those year-specific Variant rank-up gems? You could have maybe a 5% chance for a 2015 2-3, a 4% chance for a 2016 2-3, and a 3% chance for a 2017 2-3. Then maybe a 2%, 1%, and 0,5% for a 2015-2017 3-4 gem, respectively.

There's no avenue for earning more of them anyway (I'm assuming most TBers have completed most Variants), and they were pretty good for ranking up champs you wouldn't otherwise use hard-earned resources on.

It would be interesting to be able to acquire 6* 1-2 gems for 2015/2016 etc champs, but that's probably not a Daily Crystal type of reward.

But yeah, anyway, I liked your outline. Can't really speak for yearlong TBers and their needs, and I personally don't really need my own rewards improved, but you had some cool suggestions and I certainly wouldn't mind if some of them were heeded.

QuikPik

A slight bump in this crystal wouldn't be bad. I like the idea of eliminating the 1/2 T4b or T4cc. I've been TB since day 1 and have never gotten 10 6* shards. I've probably gotten the 5*, some 6* shards, T5cc, T2A T5b less than 5 times each. They are incredibly rare and mostly expect to see either T4b and T4cc 80% of the time.

DNA3000

So in terms of judging if the TB daily crystal contents make sense, one thing I would look at is the average value of the crystal over time, say a month. Since we don't have published drop odds for the crystal, I have to estimate from my drop data. This is what I would get in a 30 day month, assuming I opened one daily per day reliably (I don't, but this assumes I do):

So about six T4B, four T4CC, two and a half T2A, most of a T5B, and a few thousand 5* shards. It is roughly in the same ballpark as Zola's numbers, and overall that seems extremely good for what amounts to a calendar with some extra fetch mechanics. In terms of pure overall value, I see no obvious need to increase the value of the crystals.

In terms of 5* champs and units, the drop odds for those appear to be sufficiently low that deleting them or changing them would have no significant impact on the crystal value. The only reward that has any questionable value and sufficiently high drop odds to matter are the 5k 5* shards, and I think even Thronebreakers could use those. As it adds some variety to the drops without materially hurting the value of the crystal overall, I don't feel compelled to change those.

Another interesting question to contemplate is: how relevant has the TB daily been to my roster progress? Well, at the moment I have eight R3s. I'm sitting on catalysts (I have four T5CC formed, for example) so I could have more. Let's say I have eleven "virtual" R3s total. The total stuff in the daily TB crystals has collectively given me enough materials to do about one full R1->R3 rank up (at least). So you could argue that in terms of 6* rank ups the daily TB crystal is responsible for about 9% of my roster rank up velocity. That's also not bad for a free daily crystal. And I've only opened 89% of all possible daily crystals (because of daily drift I miss a crystal here and there).
You don’t have 6* shards on the chart…?

I have yet to pull the 6* shards. As I've collected enough data to pull both unit drops, I suspect the reason I don't have the 6* shards is because it is extraordinarily rare, which of course we'd all expect 10k 6* shards to be. We saw a lot of people pull them because initially many people who pulled them was excited to share. But they could have just been the few lucky ones out of the thousands of players opening those crystals.

DawsMan

I think the daily is fine. T4b and CC is always welcome. I have pulled 5k five star shards twice and one five star champion. I certainly wouldn't mind a bump in shards but overall I am happy with it.

DNA3000

So if we can stipulate that the TB Daily provides almost enough T2a and almost enough T5b every half year to take a single 6* from R1 to R3–does that sound like the right amount for where the game is for TBs today?

Considering that the source is a free daily crystal, and this isn't the only source of those items, that seems reasonable to me. It could be higher, it could be lower, but where it is now is a place where I wouldn't object.

There's one caveat to this. I've long been a proponent of the notion that players of progress level N get more rewards appropriate for N-2 than the game currently gives them. In other words, consider Thronebreakers. They are supposed to be players whose primary rank up and champion acquisition focus is 6* champs. So we'd expect 5* champs to be a kind of fall-back: nice to have when you're missing the 6* champ. 4* champs would then be mostly "for fun" champs, or for the rare special restricted objective (or for the arena).

So while it makes sense for 6* rank up materials to be restricted for TBs, and 5* rank up materials to be easier to get but still regulated, it makes less sense (in my opinion) for 4* rank up materials to be constrained for such players. They've earned the right to partially "escape" the 4* rat race by then. So I think materials useful to 4* rank up should be much easier to get. Lower catalysts, say, or even straight up 4* rank up gems you can use for those rank ups.

If, and this is a big if, we decide to add such rewards (or any other rewards), we of course have to put them somewhere. We could add them to side quest content, or objectives, or daily crystals. If I look at the daily crystal, I don't see something that in my opinion needs to be buffed. But if you hand me some rewards and tell me TB players are supposed to get these, where should we put them? I wouldn't be opposed to shoving them in the daily crystals either. I don't think that would necessarily make them "overvalued."