With all the new champs out it’s time for 6 star Hyperion.. come on now they finally made 5 star scarlet witch.. but they could have made her 6 star too while they at it.. add them to the mix..
Damn, people should’ve voted for CGR or Corvus, so Kabam will think that he is no longer a god, and THEN, they might release him as a six star. Bit far fetched and extremely unlikely that would’ve happened, but I’m desperate people
Oh my god, the cgr toxic guys are making this discussion very bad. Every champ have there own unique things. 1. Corvus dominants aq, is the best cosmic to bring in incrusions, very good boss killer and death immunity 2. Cgr have one of the highest dmg output in game, have some immunities, fun to play, satisfying numbers and lot 3. Herc is very good in both short and long fights, death immunity is good, fun to play, very good animations and winning pose, lot of potential. 4. Let's just be fair, hype is a 5 star champ and people who have rank 3 corvus/cgr/herc still use him in many content.
Again I just want to say that all are very close in there use in game and all is on your personal preference. Don't be that toxic cgr guys, you are making is very bad situation.
Oh my god, the cgr toxic guys are making this discussion very bad. Every champ have there own unique things. 1. Corvus dominants aq, is the best cosmic to bring in incrusions, very good boss killer and death immunity 2. Cgr have one of the highest dmg output in game, have some immunities, fun to play, satisfying numbers and lot 3. Herc is very good in both short and long fights, death immunity is good, fun to play, very good animations and winning pose, lot of potential. 4. Let's just be fair, hype is a 5 star champ and people who have rank 3 corvus/cgr/herc still use him in many content.
Again I just want to say that all are very close in there use in game and all is on your personal preference. Don't be that toxic cgr guys, you are making is very bad situation.
Be safe
CGR has high numbers so thats what makes some of his fans undermine everything about other cosmics. Some do give fair reasoning though.
Oh my god, the cgr toxic guys are making this discussion very bad. Every champ have there own unique things. 1. Corvus dominants aq, is the best cosmic to bring in incrusions, very good boss killer and death immunity 2. Cgr have one of the highest dmg output in game, have some immunities, fun to play, satisfying numbers and lot 3. Herc is very good in both short and long fights, death immunity is good, fun to play, very good animations and winning pose, lot of potential. 4. Let's just be fair, hype is a 5 star champ and people who have rank 3 corvus/cgr/herc still use him in many content.
Again I just want to say that all are very close in there use in game and all is on your personal preference. Don't be that toxic cgr guys, you are making is very bad situation.
Be safe
CGR has high numbers so thats what makes some of his fans undermine everything about other cosmics. Some do give fair reasoning though.
Yep. CGR is my favourite champ but I agree that Hyperion is better because that power gain ability is OP. Though I do think that CGR is better than Corvus, and I don’t really use CMM so idk about her.
Oh my god, the cgr toxic guys are making this discussion very bad. Every champ have there own unique things. 1. Corvus dominants aq, is the best cosmic to bring in incrusions, very good boss killer and death immunity 2. Cgr have one of the highest dmg output in game, have some immunities, fun to play, satisfying numbers and lot 3. Herc is very good in both short and long fights, death immunity is good, fun to play, very good animations and winning pose, lot of potential. 4. Let's just be fair, hype is a 5 star champ and people who have rank 3 corvus/cgr/herc still use him in many content.
Again I just want to say that all are very close in there use in game and all is on your personal preference. Don't be that toxic cgr guys, you are making is very bad situation.
Be safe
CGR has high numbers so thats what makes some of his fans undermine everything about other cosmics. Some do give fair reasoning though.
Yep. CGR is my favourite champ but I agree that Hyperion is better because that power gain ability is OP. Though I do think that CGR is better than Corvus, and I don’t really use CMM so idk about her.
Hyperion is my favorite of these champs but it’s really tough to say he can’t be the best because he isn’t a 6*, but then again these other champs crazy too and clear so much. Tough to say who’s the best, i think it’s hercules but probably gotta wait and see. Maybe his usability will die down or he will get nerfed, but i really doubt a top 4 prestige champ with some really good utility and damage is gonna be ignored for too long.
Here’s my moment for disagrees. Hyperion is only considered the best cosmic for the nostalgia factor. If you released Hyperion and any of Herc, CGR or Corvus in the same month today, I really believe you would not consider Hyperion the best champion.
In the past he could do so much that we required him to do, we weren’t as good at intercepting so his power gain was great, we needed damage so that was great, his secondary source of damage from sp1 was nice. But nowadays he simply doesn’t cut it. We can intercept better and play more reliably without the need for specials to intercept, we have more damage, we have other ways to get secondary damage.
He’s awesome, and it’s a testament to how good he is that he’s still in the conversation at all. But he is not as good as Cosmic champions who came after him, and people are hanging on to the notion that Hyp is the best based on using him to get through act 4, 5 and 6 in the day. We have better champs now
I usually don't disagree with steel, but have hype as a maxed out 5 star and also cgr, trust me when i say hype's put in WORK in act 7 for me, and idk about others but intercepting with hype feels so much easier than any other champions. his passive power gain is in comparison to no other champ in this game and it gets you through all the situations, on top of that he has poison immunity which i understand isnt much useful, but it's something. and have you ever used him in incursions? he's the most fun champ in the entire game once you get a few hacks like buff cornucopia and fury enhancement and what not. I've personally played incursions with hype, cgr and corvus and let me tell you, hype beats all of them, yes even corvus, in incursions.
Not only that, he's sooo useful in variant content, an absolute cheese in the final chapter of the recent variant with the increased ability accuracy and perma stuns on sp2. He's the best option for it and no one can tell me otherwise.
ON TOP OF THIS, hype's got one of the best regen mechanics which is sooo easily accessible and puts in work for some potion use.
annnnnnd he has the best sig scaling in the entire game which is one of the most underrated things about him, from 0-20 makes a world of difference and from 20-200 does absolutely nothing.
plus he fits in any team anywhere and does not require synergies, really annoying defender on certain nodes as well.
I've chased cgr for so long and when i finally got him, i rank 5'd him, but i still found myself using hype in places more than him. and yes i did practice a lot with cgr and got his massive damage rotations in control.
honestly i wanna stop but there are so many things coming to mind. ok one last- hype has an easy playstyle unlike cgr and he's so stressfree to play too, since there isn't any sort of cap on his furies or power gain, unlike the 20 charges on corvus which i really dont like.
He even dominated summer of pain rogue for a lot of players.
In conclusion:- yes maybe hype isnt the best cosmic in the game, but to say all the champs that came after him is better is extremely debatable. but he is and will be proving his worth in the future and will surely never be a forgotten champion.
Thanks for sharing your points! So I have a few things I wanna address from here
Firstly, I wouldn't say Act 7 is the best test of how good a champion is. There's so many fun interesting nodes, that it really throws around the order of how useful champions are. The Class boosts are powerful, the tag boosts too, so for the most part I don't think act 7 can be used to justify the "best" champ.
What situations exactly does passive power gain get you through that CGR can't do? I can only really think of one, being unblockable. Hyp does have a very strong power gain and should you encounter a situation where the opponent is unblockable, sure, Hyperion is better than CGR. But how often does that really happen? And is that niche scenario enough to justify Hyperion being better than CGR? A few nodes off the top of my head that cause the opponent to go fully unblockable, Aspect of War, Steady build up unblockable, unblockable finale. Aspect of War, yeah I mean I suppose Hyp is better, but why would you ever really go, oh I'm gonna bring hyp for this fight instead of a slow champion? Just to prove CGR is worse? I'm not so sure anyone would. Steady Build up is aimed at skill champions to purify them, and CGR can get around unblockable finale with his massive damage, sure there may be a niche scenario where the damage is capped, but that'll be such a small percentage of fights that it's not enough to say CGR is worse.
Poison immunity? Useful, sure, but bleed and incinerate are more useful together than poison alone. I'd argue just bleed is more useful but that's a separate debate.
So I feel very strongly about not using incursions to justify how good a champion is, there is so much in that game mode that breaks champions and causes certain interactions to go wild. Civil Warrior is a beast in incursions, so is annihulus, Aarkus, MS etc, and while these champions may be good or bad outside of incursions you can't use one game mode that has little bearing on the rest of the game to justify a champion being the top of their class. It's essentially a different game, with different champion abilities.
Variant content, sure, Hyp is ok, but you're talking about 1 of 7 variants with the increased AA, not exactly a slam dunk.
Hyperion does have a fantastic regen mechanic at the loss of power gain for 45 seconds. It's an ok trade off for sure, and it's a beefy regen, but I'd argue that CGR's block proficiency being higher than Doom means for a lot of match ups you'll have more health than Hyp. Plus, Hyp has a parry heavy playstyle which can sometimes lead to block damage. With unavoidable damage, yeah Hyp has CGR beat on sustainability, but I'm not sure that's enough.
Sig scaling, would you say Hype's sig scaling is better than CGR's scaling of... um... 1?
Cgr also fits in anywhere on a team and doesn't require synergies.
Eh, CGR having a hard playstyle is subjective. I find it very easy to cycle judgements. And I'm not sure having an easy playstyle makes a champion the best in the class, the two best champions in the game are widely both considered the two hardest to play. So CGR being hard to play shouldn't stop him being the best cosmic.
I agree with your conclusion, it is debatable, but we are having that debate now. Hyperion is and always will be a top cosmic champion, he will always have value, but he can't be top forever with the champions coming out, and I would argue he's already lost his crown. If you disagree, please be my guest and put forward your own points, I actually love hearing why people think he is the best instead of, CGR fans are toxic, you don't understand Hyperion etc that some people like to say instead of actually addressing what I've said.
Here’s my moment for disagrees. Hyperion is only considered the best cosmic for the nostalgia factor. If you released Hyperion and any of Herc, CGR or Corvus in the same month today, I really believe you would not consider Hyperion the best champion.
In the past he could do so much that we required him to do, we weren’t as good at intercepting so his power gain was great, we needed damage so that was great, his secondary source of damage from sp1 was nice. But nowadays he simply doesn’t cut it. We can intercept better and play more reliably without the need for specials to intercept, we have more damage, we have other ways to get secondary damage.
He’s awesome, and it’s a testament to how good he is that he’s still in the conversation at all. But he is not as good as Cosmic champions who came after him, and people are hanging on to the notion that Hyp is the best based on using him to get through act 4, 5 and 6 in the day. We have better champs now
I think hes pretty easily the best bc the other contenders have to do a few things to be on even ground. CG can't touch him without the combination of a higher rarity and suicides, Cgr is close but struggles when he can't 5hit combos or has to deal with AAR, and Herc needs suicides it seems like. Hes early enough that I won't say for certain that hes not better, but there's a pretty good reason hype and quake probably won't get a 6* anytime soon. Maybe that's just kabam being overly cautious but...
Why are you saying that without higher rarity/suicides CGR isn't better? Because that seems like you're implying without the extra attack from higher rank and suicides, CGR isn't better than Hyp? He has the same utility as a 6* rank 3, so unless you're saying that CGR's damage isn't enough then I don't think you've got much of a point there. And I'm not sure I've ever seen someone say CGR's damage isn't enough.
Regarding needing 5 hit combos, I'm not actually sure what you're referring to. Do you mean this? https://youtu.be/WhvhPCBwX6w I'm sure you don't mean miss, since every miss (to my knowledge except stun immune tunnel vision, a rather niche combination) in the game can be gotten around with a 5 hit combo. Professor X, G2099, Stryfe, Darkhawk, SuperSkrull etc. Regarding nodes, tunnel vision is shown above, Missing in action (any time defender buff ends there's a timer then falter), if you'd like to point out more miss nodes or champions I'd be happy to explain how CGR can deal with them.
Or perhaps you're referring to evade, since it could screw him up. But I know you wouldn't be using that as your point, it's not like Hyperion is an evade counter. Using Evade as your reason Hyp is better would be pretty weak.
Maybe you mean Autoblock, could be annoying there. Except when you consider it, 4 of the 8 auto blockers need buffs or armour to do so, and CGR is very proficient at countering them. Nova, Heimdall, Medusa, IMIW. CGR handles them all easily. You're left with Darkhawk (easy to handle, push to sp2 and use vigilance buff to counter/don't knock down except when necessary), MODOK (bad match up admittedly), overseer (we haven't seen enough of him yet to form an accurate opinion on defence) and Thor Rags (no counter needed). So of the 8 autoblock champions, CGR hard counters 4, can deal with 2, 1 is undetermined and 1 is a bad matchup. Regardless, I don't think you mean autoblock, since CGR can deal with it better than Hyperion, who can't deal with Nova, Heimdall, Medusa or MODOK, and not as well for IMIW, with 1 armour break per SP2, and CGR gets more armour breaks, more often.
So how exactly, can CGR's combo be interrupted in a meaningful scenario
Since you say Hype not being released as a 6* is proof that he's "too good", I wonder if you'd make the same case for Blade, Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Dr Voodoo, Magik and Scarlet Witch? Are they all too good to be released as 6*? Cause it seems like you're using one fact to suit your opinion, rather than using the full picture to form your opinion.
Hyperion is an oldtimer and still stands today. That makes him the best cosmic imo.
I think that's a fair point to say he's still an amazing champion, and it's a testament to his abilities that they're still useful today, but just because he's still good today doesn't give any inherent value to what he brings to the table in the current game.
When you look at a champion objectively, you can't use the factor of time in how good they are now. Why do you think, objectively speaking, Hyperion's abilities are better than CGR
You only know the power of Hyperion when you’ve had him for a while. He does things he shouldn’t even be great for really well, and is normally a nice replacement if you don’t have a certain champ. He just works.
CGR is annoyingly overrated, and spam disagree if you want, his utility is awful.
You only know the power of Hyperion when you’ve had him for a while. He does things he shouldn’t even be great for really well, and is normally a nice replacement if you don’t have a certain champ. He just works.
CGR is annoyingly overrated, and spam disagree if you want, his utility is awful.
You only know the power of Hyperion when you’ve had him for a while. He does things he shouldn’t even be great for really well, and is normally a nice replacement if you don’t have a certain champ. He just works.
CGR is annoyingly overrated, and spam disagree if you want, his utility is awful.
Yes, Hype is better, but CGR is still a god. He is the highest dealing champ in the game WITHOUT synergies, and his awakened ability is pretty helpful. He counters Mysterio and Ghost at the start of the fight without doing anything, and has easy access to massive armor breaks and many other buffs. So no he’s not overrated, and sure he might have a little less utility but it’s still more than a lot of champions and he makes up for it with his damage.
You only know the power of Hyperion when you’ve had him for a while. He does things he shouldn’t even be great for really well, and is normally a nice replacement if you don’t have a certain champ. He just works.
CGR is annoyingly overrated, and spam disagree if you want, his utility is awful.
Yes, Hype is better, but CGR is still a god. He is the highest dealing champ in the game WITHOUT synergies, and his awakened ability is pretty helpful. He counters Mysterio and Ghost at the start of the fight without doing anything, and has easy access to massive armor breaks and many other buffs. So no he’s not overrated, and sure he might have a little less utility but it’s still more than a lot of champions and he makes up for it with his damage.
I have to disagree with him having more utility than a lot of other champs, unless you’re just looking at the meme tiers. Mangog, who I admit is significantly worse, has about 10x more utility than CGR. Same applies to dormammu etc. Double immunity and armour break is all he really has. His fate seal is stupidly situational, to the point where it’s only really useful for his rotation and not utility.
He actually has yet to impress me from a utility standpoint in any content that’s actually difficult, and he was released 10 months ago.
You only know the power of Hyperion when you’ve had him for a while. He does things he shouldn’t even be great for really well, and is normally a nice replacement if you don’t have a certain champ. He just works.
CGR is annoyingly overrated, and spam disagree if you want, his utility is awful.
@walkerdog What work to 5hit do you have to go through? what do you mean? Do you mean parry, LLMLM? That’s not effort , that’s a work around to counter content. It’s a different way to play to counter nodes
How does Hyperion counter tunnel vision?
Again, “effort” to use a champion does not take anything away from how good they are. Would you agree that quake is the best champion in the game? Because she takes effort to use.
So are you saying that because Hyperion can deal with evade by having a special ready, and because you don’t want to 5 hit combo with CGR, that’s enough to mean he’s the best cosmic?
What actual points are there that you have, for why Hyperion is better than CGR
Looks like Herc hype is real. No pun intended. I would definitely be interested if I ever get a 5/6 herc. I really don't care till I own newly released champs, Why bother with the things I don't have. Gonna invest on the 4* and do some testing now. This thread have me intrigued.
Here’s my moment for disagrees. Hyperion is only considered the best cosmic for the nostalgia factor. If you released Hyperion and any of Herc, CGR or Corvus in the same month today, I really believe you would not consider Hyperion the best champion.
In the past he could do so much that we required him to do, we weren’t as good at intercepting so his power gain was great, we needed damage so that was great, his secondary source of damage from sp1 was nice. But nowadays he simply doesn’t cut it. We can intercept better and play more reliably without the need for specials to intercept, we have more damage, we have other ways to get secondary damage.
He’s awesome, and it’s a testament to how good he is that he’s still in the conversation at all. But he is not as good as Cosmic champions who came after him, and people are hanging on to the notion that Hyp is the best based on using him to get through act 4, 5 and 6 in the day. We have better champs now
I think hes pretty easily the best bc the other contenders have to do a few things to be on even ground. CG can't touch him without the combination of a higher rarity and suicides, Cgr is close but struggles when he can't 5hit combos or has to deal with AAR, and Herc needs suicides it seems like. Hes early enough that I won't say for certain that hes not better, but there's a pretty good reason hype and quake probably won't get a 6* anytime soon. Maybe that's just kabam being overly cautious but...
Why are you saying that without higher rarity/suicides CGR isn't better? Because that seems like you're implying without the extra attack from higher rank and suicides, CGR isn't better than Hyp? He has the same utility as a 6* rank 3, so unless you're saying that CGR's damage isn't enough then I don't think you've got much of a point there. And I'm not sure I've ever seen someone say CGR's damage isn't enough.
Regarding needing 5 hit combos, I'm not actually sure what you're referring to. Do you mean this? https://youtu.be/WhvhPCBwX6w I'm sure you don't mean miss, since every miss (to my knowledge except stun immune tunnel vision, a rather niche combination) in the game can be gotten around with a 5 hit combo. Professor X, G2099, Stryfe, Darkhawk, SuperSkrull etc. Regarding nodes, tunnel vision is shown above, Missing in action (any time defender buff ends there's a timer then falter), if you'd like to point out more miss nodes or champions I'd be happy to explain how CGR can deal with them.
Or perhaps you're referring to evade, since it could screw him up. But I know you wouldn't be using that as your point, it's not like Hyperion is an evade counter. Using Evade as your reason Hyp is better would be pretty weak.
Maybe you mean Autoblock, could be annoying there. Except when you consider it, 4 of the 8 auto blockers need buffs or armour to do so, and CGR is very proficient at countering them. Nova, Heimdall, Medusa, IMIW. CGR handles them all easily. You're left with Darkhawk (easy to handle, push to sp2 and use vigilance buff to counter/don't knock down except when necessary), MODOK (bad match up admittedly), overseer (we haven't seen enough of him yet to form an accurate opinion on defence) and Thor Rags (no counter needed). So of the 8 autoblock champions, CGR hard counters 4, can deal with 2, 1 is undetermined and 1 is a bad matchup. Regardless, I don't think you mean autoblock, since CGR can deal with it better than Hyperion, who can't deal with Nova, Heimdall, Medusa or MODOK, and not as well for IMIW, with 1 armour break per SP2, and CGR gets more armour breaks, more often.
So how exactly, can CGR's combo be interrupted in a meaningful scenario
Since you say Hype not being released as a 6* is proof that he's "too good", I wonder if you'd make the same case for Blade, Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Dr Voodoo, Magik and Scarlet Witch? Are they all too good to be released as 6*? Cause it seems like you're using one fact to suit your opinion, rather than using the full picture to form your opinion.
The other ones that haven't been 6* all have enormormous healing capability or were the two best/most broken mystics for a long time that they haven't gotten around to releasing as 6*.
Oh wait I forgot hype has a nice heal, maybe thats just it.
Also I do not have any interest in going thru all that work to 5hit with cgr. I do understand that for you those challenges are fun, but thats a lot more effort than id want to go thru for those fights. Hype doesn't counter evade but barring the last hit of heavies, he can do evade fights with sp1 as backup for when they evade just fine.
I like my cgr a lot but I still use hype more im pretty sure. Its certainly good that we have more contenders for top cosmic than "hype or CG with suicides" like before CGR and Herc came out.
What “work to 5hit” what do you mean? How does Hyperion counter tunnel vision?
Again, “effort” to use a champion does not take anything away from how good they are. Would you agree that quake is the best champion in the game? Because she takes effort to use.
So are you saying that because Hyperion can deal with evade by having a special ready, and because you don’t want to 5 hit combo with CGR, that’s enough to mean he’s the best cosmic?
What actual points are there that you have, for why Hyperion is better than CGR
You only know the power of Hyperion when you’ve had him for a while. He does things he shouldn’t even be great for really well, and is normally a nice replacement if you don’t have a certain champ. He just works.
CGR is annoyingly overrated, and spam disagree if you want, his utility is awful.
Yes, Hype is better, but CGR is still a god. He is the highest dealing champ in the game WITHOUT synergies, and his awakened ability is pretty helpful. He counters Mysterio and Ghost at the start of the fight without doing anything, and has easy access to massive armor breaks and many other buffs. So no he’s not overrated, and sure he might have a little less utility but it’s still more than a lot of champions and he makes up for it with his damage.
I have to disagree with him having more utility than a lot of other champs, unless you’re just looking at the meme tiers. Mangog, who I admit is significantly worse, has about 10x more utility than CGR. Same applies to dormammu etc. Double immunity and armour break is all he really has. His fate seal is stupidly situational, to the point where it’s only really useful for his rotation and not utility.
He actually has yet to impress me from a utility standpoint in any content that’s actually difficult, and he was released 10 months ago.
He has better buff control than about half the mystics in the game, while getting round nodes like Mystic ward. I regularly use CGR for buff control match ups. Here's a couple of examples showing off how good his buff control is
Removing all venom's buffs, including the annoying crit resist buff, attack, crit, armour etc. You take this fight any other place than the one piece of content in the game that has increased ability accuracy so he can stun lock, Hyp is not useful for a fight like this.
BPCW in the gauntlet, he's unblockable with armour up, footloose, armour buffs, arc overload. Boy I wish there was a champ who could control those buffs. I used him for a hell of a lot of my gauntlet fights, including harder ones like Void and Killmonger.
SoP Adaptoid, almost every part of CGR's damage is taken away from him here with no armour break and no Sp3, but he can still manage it, because he has utility. Using the right rotation meant that Adaptoid triggered 4 Unstoppables in the match up.
So, we've established he has buff control. What else?
He can apply his fateseal, power lock and heal block every 2 combos, and more if you time it right. He can deal with healing, with the combination of the heal block and despair, I don't think Hyp can do that.
Similar to Doom cycle, though clearly not as powerful, you can cycle Sp3, MLLLL, MLLLM and time the second combo so that your judgements reset in the middle of it, meaning you can get a power lock cycle where the opponent will only gain power on 1 or 2 hits. But he has no utility right?
He has more block proficiency than Doom, but that's not a bonus is it, we love block damage. He has energy mediums for Korgs, incinerate immunity, bleed immunity, vigilance to deal with all miss in the game except basically stun immune tunnel vision, fantastic autoblock counter for the 4 autoblock champs that need buffs, and IMIW who needs armour (leaving only darkhawk, which he can counter anyway with miss, thor rags who you can just not intercept, and Overseer and MODOK who are probably not favourable matchups)
He also has permanent armour break against villains like Mysterio and KM, constant armour break for IMIW and Guardian, DOT from his Sp1 and it's an incinerate for stuff like stun reflection and selective time stream, pretty beefy armour up buff if you get hit during his judgement's resetting - it really reduces damage taken as a little safety net, he also has inbuilt buff duration increase which applies to other buffs and nodes - if you trigger the heimdall unstoppable/indestructable at the end of your judgements you can get a 6 second duration. Same goes for Icarus, fight or flight, heal or hide etc. Lastly, unblockable Sp1 is really nice for getting openings if your opponent is being less aggressive, or if you need to apply DOT, or use judgements urgently.
All of this, without mentioning his insane damage once. Which can be used as a utility to finish fights fast before they get hard. If you're counting who is more useful as who is the best cosmic champion, CGR can be used for fights like Champion 6.2 or Gauntlet void simply because of his crazy damage. He finishes the fight before it gets too much, and before you have a chance to die. That adds to his uses.
Now I'm not expecting you to change your mind, but it would be vindicating for me, if you look at this breakdown of his utility, and seriously say, without a hint of irony, what utility? It would show me you're so set on seeing CGR as just big yellow numbers, and utterly ignore the uses he can bring to the contest.
Here’s my moment for disagrees. Hyperion is only considered the best cosmic for the nostalgia factor. If you released Hyperion and any of Herc, CGR or Corvus in the same month today, I really believe you would not consider Hyperion the best champion.
In the past he could do so much that we required him to do, we weren’t as good at intercepting so his power gain was great, we needed damage so that was great, his secondary source of damage from sp1 was nice. But nowadays he simply doesn’t cut it. We can intercept better and play more reliably without the need for specials to intercept, we have more damage, we have other ways to get secondary damage.
He’s awesome, and it’s a testament to how good he is that he’s still in the conversation at all. But he is not as good as Cosmic champions who came after him, and people are hanging on to the notion that Hyp is the best based on using him to get through act 4, 5 and 6 in the day. We have better champs now
I think hes pretty easily the best bc the other contenders have to do a few things to be on even ground. CG can't touch him without the combination of a higher rarity and suicides, Cgr is close but struggles when he can't 5hit combos or has to deal with AAR, and Herc needs suicides it seems like. Hes early enough that I won't say for certain that hes not better, but there's a pretty good reason hype and quake probably won't get a 6* anytime soon. Maybe that's just kabam being overly cautious but...
Why are you saying that without higher rarity/suicides CGR isn't better? Because that seems like you're implying without the extra attack from higher rank and suicides, CGR isn't better than Hyp? He has the same utility as a 6* rank 3, so unless you're saying that CGR's damage isn't enough then I don't think you've got much of a point there. And I'm not sure I've ever seen someone say CGR's damage isn't enough.
Regarding needing 5 hit combos, I'm not actually sure what you're referring to. Do you mean this? https://youtu.be/WhvhPCBwX6w I'm sure you don't mean miss, since every miss (to my knowledge except stun immune tunnel vision, a rather niche combination) in the game can be gotten around with a 5 hit combo. Professor X, G2099, Stryfe, Darkhawk, SuperSkrull etc. Regarding nodes, tunnel vision is shown above, Missing in action (any time defender buff ends there's a timer then falter), if you'd like to point out more miss nodes or champions I'd be happy to explain how CGR can deal with them.
Or perhaps you're referring to evade, since it could screw him up. But I know you wouldn't be using that as your point, it's not like Hyperion is an evade counter. Using Evade as your reason Hyp is better would be pretty weak.
Maybe you mean Autoblock, could be annoying there. Except when you consider it, 4 of the 8 auto blockers need buffs or armour to do so, and CGR is very proficient at countering them. Nova, Heimdall, Medusa, IMIW. CGR handles them all easily. You're left with Darkhawk (easy to handle, push to sp2 and use vigilance buff to counter/don't knock down except when necessary), MODOK (bad match up admittedly), overseer (we haven't seen enough of him yet to form an accurate opinion on defence) and Thor Rags (no counter needed). So of the 8 autoblock champions, CGR hard counters 4, can deal with 2, 1 is undetermined and 1 is a bad matchup. Regardless, I don't think you mean autoblock, since CGR can deal with it better than Hyperion, who can't deal with Nova, Heimdall, Medusa or MODOK, and not as well for IMIW, with 1 armour break per SP2, and CGR gets more armour breaks, more often.
So how exactly, can CGR's combo be interrupted in a meaningful scenario
Since you say Hype not being released as a 6* is proof that he's "too good", I wonder if you'd make the same case for Blade, Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Dr Voodoo, Magik and Scarlet Witch? Are they all too good to be released as 6*? Cause it seems like you're using one fact to suit your opinion, rather than using the full picture to form your opinion.
The other ones that haven't been 6* all have enormormous healing capability or were the two best/most broken mystics for a long time that they haven't gotten around to releasing as 6*.
Oh wait I forgot hype has a nice heal, maybe thats just it.
Also I do not have any interest in going thru all that work to 5hit with cgr. I do understand that for you those challenges are fun, but thats a lot more effort than id want to go thru for those fights. Hype doesn't counter evade but barring the last hit of heavies, he can do evade fights with sp1 as backup for when they evade just fine.
I like my cgr a lot but I still use hype more im pretty sure. Its certainly good that we have more contenders for top cosmic than "hype or CG with suicides" like
@walkerdog What work to 5hit do you have to go through? what do you mean? Do you mean parry, LLMLM? That’s not effort , that’s a work around to counter content. It’s a different way to play to counter nodes
How does Hyperion counter tunnel vision?
Again, “effort” to use a champion does not take anything away from how good they are. Would you agree that quake is the best champion in the game? Because she takes effort to use.
So are you saying that because Hyperion can deal with evade by having a special ready, and because you don’t want to 5 hit combo with CGR, that’s enough to mean he’s the best cosmic?
What actual points are there that you have, for why Hyperion is better than CGR
Passive power gain, a heal, and similar damage.
Hyperion's power gain is through a buff and no way their damage is similar.
And there it is, that's all it comes down to. If that's enough to make a top champion compared to the proven large amount of utility CGR has, the immense damage (not similar damage), then that explains why some of the community is stuck on Hyperion being the best.
Comments
Every champ have there own unique things.
1. Corvus dominants aq, is the best cosmic to bring in incrusions, very good boss killer and death immunity
2. Cgr have one of the highest dmg output in game, have some immunities, fun to play, satisfying numbers and lot
3. Herc is very good in both short and long fights, death immunity is good, fun to play, very good animations and winning pose, lot of potential.
4. Let's just be fair, hype is a 5 star champ and people who have rank 3 corvus/cgr/herc still use him in many content.
Again I just want to say that all are very close in there use in game and all is on your personal preference.
Don't be that toxic cgr guys, you are making is very bad situation.
Be safe
Corvus on Flare paths is an absolute joke
Firstly, I wouldn't say Act 7 is the best test of how good a champion is. There's so many fun interesting nodes, that it really throws around the order of how useful champions are. The Class boosts are powerful, the tag boosts too, so for the most part I don't think act 7 can be used to justify the "best" champ.
What situations exactly does passive power gain get you through that CGR can't do? I can only really think of one, being unblockable. Hyp does have a very strong power gain and should you encounter a situation where the opponent is unblockable, sure, Hyperion is better than CGR. But how often does that really happen? And is that niche scenario enough to justify Hyperion being better than CGR? A few nodes off the top of my head that cause the opponent to go fully unblockable, Aspect of War, Steady build up unblockable, unblockable finale. Aspect of War, yeah I mean I suppose Hyp is better, but why would you ever really go, oh I'm gonna bring hyp for this fight instead of a slow champion? Just to prove CGR is worse? I'm not so sure anyone would. Steady Build up is aimed at skill champions to purify them, and CGR can get around unblockable finale with his massive damage, sure there may be a niche scenario where the damage is capped, but that'll be such a small percentage of fights that it's not enough to say CGR is worse.
Poison immunity? Useful, sure, but bleed and incinerate are more useful together than poison alone. I'd argue just bleed is more useful but that's a separate debate.
So I feel very strongly about not using incursions to justify how good a champion is, there is so much in that game mode that breaks champions and causes certain interactions to go wild. Civil Warrior is a beast in incursions, so is annihulus, Aarkus, MS etc, and while these champions may be good or bad outside of incursions you can't use one game mode that has little bearing on the rest of the game to justify a champion being the top of their class. It's essentially a different game, with different champion abilities.
Variant content, sure, Hyp is ok, but you're talking about 1 of 7 variants with the increased AA, not exactly a slam dunk.
Hyperion does have a fantastic regen mechanic at the loss of power gain for 45 seconds. It's an ok trade off for sure, and it's a beefy regen, but I'd argue that CGR's block proficiency being higher than Doom means for a lot of match ups you'll have more health than Hyp. Plus, Hyp has a parry heavy playstyle which can sometimes lead to block damage. With unavoidable damage, yeah Hyp has CGR beat on sustainability, but I'm not sure that's enough.
Sig scaling, would you say Hype's sig scaling is better than CGR's scaling of... um... 1?
Cgr also fits in anywhere on a team and doesn't require synergies.
Eh, CGR having a hard playstyle is subjective. I find it very easy to cycle judgements. And I'm not sure having an easy playstyle makes a champion the best in the class, the two best champions in the game are widely both considered the two hardest to play. So CGR being hard to play shouldn't stop him being the best cosmic.
I agree with your conclusion, it is debatable, but we are having that debate now. Hyperion is and always will be a top cosmic champion, he will always have value, but he can't be top forever with the champions coming out, and I would argue he's already lost his crown. If you disagree, please be my guest and put forward your own points, I actually love hearing why people think he is the best instead of, CGR fans are toxic, you don't understand Hyperion etc that some people like to say instead of actually addressing what I've said.
Regarding needing 5 hit combos, I'm not actually sure what you're referring to. Do you mean this?
I'm sure you don't mean miss, since every miss (to my knowledge except stun immune tunnel vision, a rather niche combination) in the game can be gotten around with a 5 hit combo. Professor X, G2099, Stryfe, Darkhawk, SuperSkrull etc. Regarding nodes, tunnel vision is shown above, Missing in action (any time defender buff ends there's a timer then falter), if you'd like to point out more miss nodes or champions I'd be happy to explain how CGR can deal with them.
Or perhaps you're referring to evade, since it could screw him up. But I know you wouldn't be using that as your point, it's not like Hyperion is an evade counter. Using Evade as your reason Hyp is better would be pretty weak.
Maybe you mean Autoblock, could be annoying there. Except when you consider it, 4 of the 8 auto blockers need buffs or armour to do so, and CGR is very proficient at countering them. Nova, Heimdall, Medusa, IMIW. CGR handles them all easily. You're left with Darkhawk (easy to handle, push to sp2 and use vigilance buff to counter/don't knock down except when necessary), MODOK (bad match up admittedly), overseer (we haven't seen enough of him yet to form an accurate opinion on defence) and Thor Rags (no counter needed). So of the 8 autoblock champions, CGR hard counters 4, can deal with 2, 1 is undetermined and 1 is a bad matchup. Regardless, I don't think you mean autoblock, since CGR can deal with it better than Hyperion, who can't deal with Nova, Heimdall, Medusa or MODOK, and not as well for IMIW, with 1 armour break per SP2, and CGR gets more armour breaks, more often.
So how exactly, can CGR's combo be interrupted in a meaningful scenario
Since you say Hype not being released as a 6* is proof that he's "too good", I wonder if you'd make the same case for Blade, Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Dr Voodoo, Magik and Scarlet Witch? Are they all too good to be released as 6*? Cause it seems like you're using one fact to suit your opinion, rather than using the full picture to form your opinion.
When you look at a champion objectively, you can't use the factor of time in how good they are now. Why do you think, objectively speaking, Hyperion's abilities are better than CGR
CGR is annoyingly overrated, and spam disagree if you want, his utility is awful.
He actually has yet to impress me from a utility standpoint in any content that’s actually difficult, and he was released 10 months ago.
@walkerdog
What work to 5hit do you have to go through? what do you mean? Do you mean parry, LLMLM? That’s not effort , that’s a work around to counter content. It’s a different way to play to counter nodes
How does Hyperion counter tunnel vision?
Again, “effort” to use a champion does not take anything away from how good they are. Would you agree that quake is the best champion in the game? Because she takes effort to use.
So are you saying that because Hyperion can deal with evade by having a special ready, and because you don’t want to 5 hit combo with CGR, that’s enough to mean he’s the best cosmic?
What actual points are there that you have, for why Hyperion is better than CGR
I would definitely be interested if I ever get a 5/6 herc.
I really don't care till I own newly released champs, Why bother with the things I don't have.
Gonna invest on the 4* and do some testing now. This thread have me intrigued.
Again, “effort” to use a champion does not take anything away from how good they are. Would you agree that quake is the best champion in the game? Because she takes effort to use.
So are you saying that because Hyperion can deal with evade by having a special ready, and because you don’t want to 5 hit combo with CGR, that’s enough to mean he’s the best cosmic?
What actual points are there that you have, for why Hyperion is better than CGR
Removing all venom's buffs, including the annoying crit resist buff, attack, crit, armour etc. You take this fight any other place than the one piece of content in the game that has increased ability accuracy so he can stun lock, Hyp is not useful for a fight like this.
BPCW in the gauntlet, he's unblockable with armour up, footloose, armour buffs, arc overload. Boy I wish there was a champ who could control those buffs. I used him for a hell of a lot of my gauntlet fights, including harder ones like Void and Killmonger.
SoP Adaptoid, almost every part of CGR's damage is taken away from him here with no armour break and no Sp3, but he can still manage it, because he has utility. Using the right rotation meant that Adaptoid triggered 4 Unstoppables in the match up.
So, we've established he has buff control. What else?
He can apply his fateseal, power lock and heal block every 2 combos, and more if you time it right. He can deal with healing, with the combination of the heal block and despair, I don't think Hyp can do that.
Similar to Doom cycle, though clearly not as powerful, you can cycle Sp3, MLLLL, MLLLM and time the second combo so that your judgements reset in the middle of it, meaning you can get a power lock cycle where the opponent will only gain power on 1 or 2 hits. But he has no utility right?
He has more block proficiency than Doom, but that's not a bonus is it, we love block damage. He has energy mediums for Korgs, incinerate immunity, bleed immunity, vigilance to deal with all miss in the game except basically stun immune tunnel vision, fantastic autoblock counter for the 4 autoblock champs that need buffs, and IMIW who needs armour (leaving only darkhawk, which he can counter anyway with miss, thor rags who you can just not intercept,
and Overseer and MODOK who are probably not favourable matchups)
He also has permanent armour break against villains like Mysterio and KM, constant armour break for IMIW and Guardian, DOT from his Sp1 and it's an incinerate for stuff like stun reflection and selective time stream, pretty beefy armour up buff if you get hit during his judgement's resetting - it really reduces damage taken as a little safety net, he also has inbuilt buff duration increase which applies to other buffs and nodes - if you trigger the heimdall unstoppable/indestructable at the end of your judgements you can get a 6 second duration. Same goes for Icarus, fight or flight, heal or hide etc. Lastly, unblockable Sp1 is really nice for getting openings if your opponent is being less aggressive, or if you need to apply DOT, or use judgements urgently.
All of this, without mentioning his insane damage once. Which can be used as a utility to finish fights fast before they get hard. If you're counting who is more useful as who is the best cosmic champion, CGR can be used for fights like Champion 6.2 or Gauntlet void simply because of his crazy damage. He finishes the fight before it gets too much, and before you have a chance to die. That adds to his uses.
Now I'm not expecting you to change your mind, but it would be vindicating for me, if you look at this breakdown of his utility, and seriously say, without a hint of irony, what utility? It would show me you're so set on seeing CGR as just big yellow numbers, and utterly ignore the uses he can bring to the contest.
And there it is, that's all it comes down to. If that's enough to make a top champion compared to the proven large amount of utility CGR has, the immense damage (not similar damage), then that explains why some of the community is stuck on Hyperion being the best.