**WE ARE NO LONGER Temporarily Reverting Tier 1 War Ban System**

After further discussion, the game team has made the decision not make adjustements to the ban system.
The previously proposed fix would have resolved the issue for Summoners who are on the cusp of T1/T2 play, and negatively impacted Alliances more securely in T1. Instead, we recommend that cusp Alliances switch to Manual Placement to your members to place the allotted 5 Ban Champions limit there.

Apologies for the back and forth, and for any confusion.
Options

What Peni Parkers abilities show about how kabam is making new defenders

So the champion deep dive for Peni Parker just dropped and something stuck out to me, the way kabam appears to be moving in the creation of new defence metas. Now quick disclaimer I don't think this is currently a problem but I am starting to notice a trend, I don't know if it will continue but I do think it is problematic. My issue is to do with how existing defensive abilities are being implemented to invalidate old counters.

Peni parker has an auto-block mechanic, fine I have plenty of auto-block counters, except that true strike doesn't work, ah well killmonger doesn't work but their are still loads of options, except well neither does true accuracy, or true sense or AAR for that matter. So erm how do we counter this. Now this in itself is one champion it doesn't signal a problem, I am not trying to start a kabam witch hunt by any means.

But think back to the ultron buff, and the fact he was given slow immunity. (feel free to correct me) but currently I believe their are no places as an attacker you are inflicted with a slow and therefore a slow immune champion is a hard counter, therefore slow immunity is only their as a defensive ability and as a way to make players use another solution such as true strike.

I don't think this is new you always release new tough defenders then solutions a few months down the line, except it's the wrong way round this time. Players do not rank up champions in anticipation of a new defensive ability because, we don't know the new defensive abilities before they are released, the best we can hope is broaden our roster to have a good base of utility.

This new approach by kabam though (If it continues) forces you to have a true strike champ for the slow immune evaders and a slow champ for the true strike immune evaders. Hmmm that approach of we will show you some abilities you've seen before except now your counters don't work go find another is oddly similar of the attitude to pre-nerf act6/7 content. Rather than making new champs a better counter to X/Y/Z by making it longer or easier to access they are making the old counters flat out not work so you need the new counters.

To be absolutely clear I don't think this is where we are currently at but I think it is where we might go.
«1

Comments

  • Options
    Erik_Killmonger1001Erik_Killmonger1001 Posts: 427 ★★★
    Zan0 said:

    Zan0 said:

    This isn't a new approach. This is how it's always been

    to address this point, previously you had a difficult defender released, lets use the example of thing he was a pain but by bleeding him he could be better managed, then stealthy was released, he was initially difficult but could be managed then with new champions he could be managed easier and for longer. Yet here instead of making a counter sub-optimal but achievable it just says flat no find another option and in this case I don't know an option currently exists in game, I'm not saying their isn't one but I am saying it is 4-5 champions in a pool of 200, so less than 5% champions being a viable counter, which is a problem
    And that's what I'm saying this isn't a new thing. Look at jabari panther and apocalypse. They just create a new ability to counter old champions
    I would argue though that if it is another way to counter a defensive ability that is better than an immunity to a counter on defence. elaboration: I would prefer to have more than one option to counter a champion that evades due to new abilities like slow being introduced and true strike rather than new defensive abilities that require a specific counter.
  • Options
    QfuryQfury Posts: 1,860 ★★★★★
    Wouldn't a high Sig Angela/nick fury with 15 tac charges be a counter... Only 2 champs that I can think of that could counter her
  • Options
    Erik_Killmonger1001Erik_Killmonger1001 Posts: 427 ★★★

    Every champion nowadays is released with lots of defensive abilities. Including champions that are advertised as offensive champions

    I know but stopping 4 of the best counters to an ability in their tracks I think is overkill, 1 or 2 fine but this really feels like the necessitating a new ability and meta shift rather than letting players choose the best or favourite option of many.
  • Options
    Kappa2gKappa2g Posts: 275 ★★★
    edited August 2021
    I think a lot of players are freaking out at the sight of the term autoblock.
    1. She needs high spider sense charges to reliably trigger autoblock
    2. Most importantly autoblock triggers only when sync shield is active, you can knock sync shield down by hitting into block, like when ur dealing with Thing above 15 stacks but under a bar of power. Think of it like invisible woman but you want to chip her forcefield down first

    However I do think the topic about the approach to counters is worth talking about, especially regarding the AW tatics, they gave us slow your roll attack tatic with intentions that it widens the options to counter evade, then follow it up next season by totally invalidating it by making slow benefit the evading defense tatic instead.
  • Options
    _wasabi__wasabi_ Posts: 102 ★★
    edited August 2021
    I agree with OP and personally, I am very disappointed with both champs.
    Peni looks better but that defensive cluster.... of things looks a bit overkill.
    Design and animations are awesome but from what I have seen thus far, they don't seem fun to me from game play side of things. Maybe too soon to judge but at the first glance they just made 2 new annoying defenders for the sake of bringing more challenge to the game.
    I prefer simpler champions, to each his own tho, we'll see I guess.
  • Options
    Colonaut123Colonaut123 Posts: 3,091 ★★★★★

    Honestly, I accepted the way of thinking that every champion from now on will be a defender, for a long time.

    Now, we don't have offensive champions with some defensive abilities. We have defensive champions with some offensive abilities.

    Simple reason: defensive champions bring more revenue through potions consumption, offensive champions lose more revenue through potion avoidance. Kabam's business model is centered around unit man. Of course they will create counters, but not until they fully profited from that defensive champion. Sure, offensive champions bring revenue through offers, but defensive champions are constantly. Korg is released in like 2019? He's still a widely used champion by Kabam in quests and by players in wars, generating revenue.

    I am not saying there's something inherently wrong about it, but most new champions of 2021 have been defensive champions made for Kabam, not for the players. People are dropping out because those new champions have no value to them. Even Seatin doesn't whale every new champion anymore. We as players look at these fancy champions with poor performance with disinterest. Featured crystals are not worth it anymore. The best champions so far have been buffs, but most of the playerbase have those champions.
  • Options
    Zeronaut81Zeronaut81 Posts: 290 ★★
    It’s part of evolving a game: new mechanics & interactions.

    America Chavez was just released with a mechanic that didn’t have a readily applicable counter (wither debuffs remove her dimensional abilities).

    Next month, SP2099 has easy access to a wither debuff. I’ll bet money that an upcoming reworked champ & other planned future releases will have access to wither debuffs.

    As for Peni, we need to wait to see how her autoblock interacts with things like Cull’s Rout buff, Super Skrull’s Undermine buff, and general Unblockable buffs.

    Cosmic champs that are immune to power drain/burn lock effects will probably be a great choice (Venompool buff?) too.

    But I’m sure there will be a hard counter released in the following month. It makes less sense to release the hard counter to a new mechanic first, especially as a business.
  • Options
    YoMovesYoMoves Posts: 1,281 ★★★★

    Can't you just hit into her Block and get rid of Synch Shield?

    *laughs in Explosive Personality*
  • Options
    TrashyPandaTrashyPanda Posts: 1,574 ★★★★★
    Guess we found the next AQ boss.

    Yaaay.
  • Options
    Eb0ny-O-M4wEb0ny-O-M4w Posts: 13,840 ★★★★★
    Already predicting next AQ theme to be spider-verse related
  • Options
    DrainbamagedDrainbamaged Posts: 28


    But I’m sure there will be a hard counter released in the following month. It makes less sense to release the hard counter to a new mechanic first, especially as a business.

    Knull.
  • Options
    The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Posts: 7,782 ★★★★★
    I'm not a fan of just hardcountering counters but it is what it is and makes sense from Kabam's pov. :/
  • Options
    VoltolosVoltolos Posts: 1,120 ★★★
    edited August 2021
    YoMoves said:

    Can't you just hit into her Block and get rid of Synch Shield?

    *laughs in Explosive Personality*
    *Laughs in armor break*
  • Options
    KnightZeroKnightZero Posts: 1,426 ★★★★★
    Honestly, what I don't like is that Peni is both immune to true strike type champs with the autoblock and at the same time, she can resist heavies. And unlike most autoblock, this isn't a flat 100% chance, so you don't knock when it's going to trigger.

    Just a doubt, since I didn't understand it from the deep dive, does hitting into her block to remove the shield when she has the required Spider Sense also trigger her autoblock?
  • Options
    Colonaut123Colonaut123 Posts: 3,091 ★★★★★

    Honestly, I accepted the way of thinking that every champion from now on will be a defender, for a long time.

    Now, we don't have offensive champions with some defensive abilities. We have defensive champions with some offensive abilities.

    Simple reason: defensive champions bring more revenue through potions consumption, offensive champions lose more revenue through potion avoidance. Kabam's business model is centered around unit man. Of course they will create counters, but not until they fully profited from that defensive champion. Sure, offensive champions bring revenue through offers, but defensive champions are constantly. Korg is released in like 2019? He's still a widely used champion by Kabam in quests and by players in wars, generating revenue.

    I am not saying there's something inherently wrong about it, but most new champions of 2021 have been defensive champions made for Kabam, not for the players. People are dropping out because those new champions have no value to them. Even Seatin doesn't whale every new champion anymore. We as players look at these fancy champions with poor performance with disinterest. Featured crystals are not worth it anymore. The best champions so far have been buffs, but most of the playerbase have those champions.
    I would add that the whole "these two new Spider-Verse champions punish True Accuracy" shenanigans is the next step. It isn't sufficient that you need certain counters to take out certain defenders, Kabam actively removes counter possibilities, for the sake of making things harder.

    Like this Penni Parker: we got a bunch of buffed skill champions who reduce Defensive Ability Accuracy (Falcon, Kingpin, Crossbones, Mole Man). Kabam just decided this won't work against Miss PP. Alright then, let's just use a Cosmic Champion with True Strike/True Accuracy/True Sense (Hercules, Odin, Red Goblin), except it won't work either for absolutely no reason (as she's a Tech and should be vulnerable to Cosmic champions). Even awakened Angela won't work, as her anti-AB is based on Ability Accuracy as well

    The only thing I can think of so far is Magneto (who's anti-AB doesn't rely on his -70% AAR), which I luckily have as a R5 5*, but everyone else is pretty much... Well, RIP. Venom, Aarkus and Terrax won't stop the auto-block, but are either unaffected by the power burn or can mitigate it.

    For Kabam you should at least three options to solve the same problem, as they can arbitrarily limit options with no logical explanation whatsoever, just to "shake up the meta". I think it's purely to favour those with broad rosters and lots of rank-up resources (aka whales).

    Again, it isn't inherently wrong, Kabam does need to make a profit. But I don't like sneaky tactics which make no logical sense from a gaming balance perspective. I think these shady mechanics should be immediately removed on PP and SP2099. If not, this really becomes Marvel Casino of Champions, and you all know: the house always wins.
  • Options
    VoltolosVoltolos Posts: 1,120 ★★★

    Honestly, I accepted the way of thinking that every champion from now on will be a defender, for a long time.

    Now, we don't have offensive champions with some defensive abilities. We have defensive champions with some offensive abilities.

    Simple reason: defensive champions bring more revenue through potions consumption, offensive champions lose more revenue through potion avoidance. Kabam's business model is centered around unit man. Of course they will create counters, but not until they fully profited from that defensive champion. Sure, offensive champions bring revenue through offers, but defensive champions are constantly. Korg is released in like 2019? He's still a widely used champion by Kabam in quests and by players in wars, generating revenue.

    I am not saying there's something inherently wrong about it, but most new champions of 2021 have been defensive champions made for Kabam, not for the players. People are dropping out because those new champions have no value to them. Even Seatin doesn't whale every new champion anymore. We as players look at these fancy champions with poor performance with disinterest. Featured crystals are not worth it anymore. The best champions so far have been buffs, but most of the playerbase have those champions.
    Venom, Aarkus and Terrax won't stop the auto-block, but are either unaffected by the power burn or can mitigate it.
    You mean they are perfect options for it? The power burn is the only problem with the auto block. It doesnt do anything else (Except stop your combo obviously but just do 4 hit combos when she has spider sense and you're good).
  • Options
    SwarmOfRavensSwarmOfRavens Posts: 1,264 ★★★★★
    edited August 2021

    Just a doubt, since I didn't understand it from the deep dive, does hitting into her block to remove the shield when she has the required Spider Sense also trigger her autoblock?

    It does not. We see her blocking attacks and specials without triggering auto-block with enough charges to guarantee auto-block. So you should be safe to hit into her block.
    Would also be pretty terrible champ design for her to dump her ramp up after every parry since her kits pretty block centric

Sign In or Register to comment.