Maybe solution to true sense and kabam’s intentions?

What if instead of removing all evade and miss reliant ppl they used similar to the following nodes to gimp Ghost and Quake (who seem to be the target Kabam is trying to reduce their broad reach)

Quake: reduced AA or true accuracy when your back is against the wall

Ghost: when the defender’s attack would miss, inflict a 1sec armor break debuff on the attacker

I feel like these are more exclusive to these two than True sense, which inhibits people like Tigra Elsa Ebony Maw etc when it doesn’t really need to.

Thoughts?

Comments

Panchulon21

What? No that’s worse than true sense. Because that’s a direct “we want to hinder those 2 champs” over “we are stopping all evade and miss instead of just 2 champs”

ChaosMax1012

What? No that’s worse than true sense. Because that’s a direct “we want to hinder those 2 champs” over “we are stopping all evade and miss instead of just 2 champs”

Kabam are targeting these 2 champs anyways, and causing other champs to lose value when true sense appears.

GroundedWisdom

What? No that’s worse than true sense. Because that’s a direct “we want to hinder those 2 champs” over “we are stopping all evade and miss instead of just 2 champs”
Kabam are targeting these 2 champs anyways, and causing other champs to lose value when true sense appears.

Everything is "targeted" at some point. It's not really an attack. It's the way the game is made. Pretty much everything that exists will have a counter added at some point. With about 200 Champs, no Champ is going to be the be-all for everything.

Kerneas

Bro, what did Ebony Maw and Stryfe do to you

unknown

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SkyLord7000

Probably time to nerf Quake and Ghost legitimately instead of a silent(ish) nerf though nodes. If a champ needs a node to counter them in some of the toughest fights in the game then they should be nerfed.

BuffBeast

What I don’t understand is how there’s no problem making nodes to hinder doom but they can’t simply make nodes for quake and ghost

GroundedWisdom

Probably time to nerf Quake and Ghost legitimately instead of a silent(ish) nerf though nodes. If a champ needs a node to counter them in some of the toughest fights in the game then they should be nerfed.

That's literally how the game is produced.

Qwerty12345

well, for quake: why not just make a node: defender is aftershock immune.

Quake all day if you want... you can get a few parry/heavies in, but it won't be the cheese that Kabam is trying to "fix"

BitterSteel

What? No that’s worse than true sense. Because that’s a direct “we want to hinder those 2 champs” over “we are stopping all evade and miss instead of just 2 champs”
Kabam are targeting these 2 champs anyways, and causing other champs to lose value when true sense appears.
Everything is "targeted" at some point. It's not really an attack. It's the way the game is made. Pretty much everything that exists will have a counter added at some point. With about 200 Champs, no Champ is going to be the be-all for everything.

Kabam aren’t trying to counter stryfe, Mr negative, professor X, spider Gwen, tigra, vulture, hood or Elsa. They aren’t trying to counter all miss and evade, that’s not the issue or the part of the game that is OP and making things to easy. Quake and ghost are, and if Kabam want an enjoyable but challenging game and want to remove quake and ghost from some game modes, by all means.

But don’t make a sloppy solution that casts a wide net and makes other non- overpowered options countered.

Kabam have literally confirmed it is to target quake and ghost, so this is just the lazy option.

Eb0ny-O-M4w

Just get rid of it already. No one will "miss" it

Shadowstrike

OK now I'm going to need a beer if this is how the thread is going...

GroundedWisdom

What? No that’s worse than true sense. Because that’s a direct “we want to hinder those 2 champs” over “we are stopping all evade and miss instead of just 2 champs”
Kabam are targeting these 2 champs anyways, and causing other champs to lose value when true sense appears.
Everything is "targeted" at some point. It's not really an attack. It's the way the game is made. Pretty much everything that exists will have a counter added at some point. With about 200 Champs, no Champ is going to be the be-all for everything.
Kabam aren’t trying to counter stryfe, Mr negative, professor X, spider Gwen, tigra, vulture, hood or Elsa. They aren’t trying to counter all miss and evade, that’s not the issue or the part of the game that is OP and making things to easy. Quake and ghost are, and if Kabam want an enjoyable but challenging game and want to remove quake and ghost from some game modes, by all means.

But don’t make a sloppy solution that casts a wide net and makes other non- overpowered options countered.

Kabam have literally confirmed it is to target quake and ghost, so this is just the lazy option.

The game is built on Nodes or Champs countering others in one form or another. That's how they design challenging content. I don't know how many times I've said this over the years, but don't expect any Champ to be an indefinite option for everything. Eventually, they're going to be challenged.

xNig

What? No that’s worse than true sense. Because that’s a direct “we want to hinder those 2 champs” over “we are stopping all evade and miss instead of just 2 champs”
Kabam are targeting these 2 champs anyways, and causing other champs to lose value when true sense appears.
Everything is "targeted" at some point. It's not really an attack. It's the way the game is made. Pretty much everything that exists will have a counter added at some point. With about 200 Champs, no Champ is going to be the be-all for everything.
Kabam aren’t trying to counter stryfe, Mr negative, professor X, spider Gwen, tigra, vulture, hood or Elsa. They aren’t trying to counter all miss and evade, that’s not the issue or the part of the game that is OP and making things to easy. Quake and ghost are, and if Kabam want an enjoyable but challenging game and want to remove quake and ghost from some game modes, by all means.

But don’t make a sloppy solution that casts a wide net and makes other non- overpowered options countered.

Kabam have literally confirmed it is to target quake and ghost, so this is just the lazy option.
The game is built on Nodes or Champs countering others in one form or another. That's how they design challenging content. I don't know how many times I've said this over the years, but don't expect any Champ to be an indefinite option for everything. Eventually, they're going to be challenged.

That’s the thing.

The aim was to nerf how predominant Quake and Ghost were in AW, the other champs affected were collateral damage.

I’ve never seen anyone with a little bit of sense argue against reducing collateral damage.

GroundedWisdom

What? No that’s worse than true sense. Because that’s a direct “we want to hinder those 2 champs” over “we are stopping all evade and miss instead of just 2 champs”
Kabam are targeting these 2 champs anyways, and causing other champs to lose value when true sense appears.
Everything is "targeted" at some point. It's not really an attack. It's the way the game is made. Pretty much everything that exists will have a counter added at some point. With about 200 Champs, no Champ is going to be the be-all for everything.
Kabam aren’t trying to counter stryfe, Mr negative, professor X, spider Gwen, tigra, vulture, hood or Elsa. They aren’t trying to counter all miss and evade, that’s not the issue or the part of the game that is OP and making things to easy. Quake and ghost are, and if Kabam want an enjoyable but challenging game and want to remove quake and ghost from some game modes, by all means.

But don’t make a sloppy solution that casts a wide net and makes other non- overpowered options countered.

Kabam have literally confirmed it is to target quake and ghost, so this is just the lazy option.
The game is built on Nodes or Champs countering others in one form or another. That's how they design challenging content. I don't know how many times I've said this over the years, but don't expect any Champ to be an indefinite option for everything. Eventually, they're going to be challenged.
That’s the thing.

The aim was to nerf how predominant Quake and Ghost were in AW, the other champs affected were collateral damage.

I’ve never seen anyone with a little bit of sense argue against reducing collateral damage.

By that standard, every counter added is a direct assault. The only people offended by this are the ones taking it personally because they rely on those Champs so heavily. Use someone else. We have 200.

GroundedWisdom

For that matter, is is surprising that relying on the same few Champs is bad for the game? At this stage?

BitterSteel

What? No that’s worse than true sense. Because that’s a direct “we want to hinder those 2 champs” over “we are stopping all evade and miss instead of just 2 champs”
Kabam are targeting these 2 champs anyways, and causing other champs to lose value when true sense appears.
Everything is "targeted" at some point. It's not really an attack. It's the way the game is made. Pretty much everything that exists will have a counter added at some point. With about 200 Champs, no Champ is going to be the be-all for everything.
Kabam aren’t trying to counter stryfe, Mr negative, professor X, spider Gwen, tigra, vulture, hood or Elsa. They aren’t trying to counter all miss and evade, that’s not the issue or the part of the game that is OP and making things to easy. Quake and ghost are, and if Kabam want an enjoyable but challenging game and want to remove quake and ghost from some game modes, by all means.

But don’t make a sloppy solution that casts a wide net and makes other non- overpowered options countered.

Kabam have literally confirmed it is to target quake and ghost, so this is just the lazy option.
The game is built on Nodes or Champs countering others in one form or another. That's how they design challenging content. I don't know how many times I've said this over the years, but don't expect any Champ to be an indefinite option for everything. Eventually, they're going to be challenged.
That’s the thing.

The aim was to nerf how predominant Quake and Ghost were in AW, the other champs affected were collateral damage.

I’ve never seen anyone with a little bit of sense argue against reducing collateral damage.
By that standard, every counter added is a direct assault. The only people offended by this are the ones taking it personally because they rely on those Champs so heavily. Use someone else. We have 200.

Actually it’s because funnily enough I enjoy playing this game (imagine that?) and I enjoy using Elsa, Mr Negative, spider Gwen etc and I think it’s a sloppy design choice for Kabam to counter them when everyone knows it’s only quake and ghost they want to counter.

Kabam think quake and ghost are too powerful, so counter them. There is literally no reason for you to be so contrarian against anything the community suggests they don’t like. When someone agrees with Kabam every time, or when someone disagrees with Kabam every time you start to question the legitimacy of their posts.

Your points don’t make sense, yes, sometimes champions get countered. That is fine, what isn’t fine is countering the wrong champions and ruining the use of champions who are not overpowered. There is literally no downside from your point of view if only quake and ghost are countered, you just seem to want to disagree with what people suggest

BitterSteel

For that matter, is is surprising that relying on the same few Champs is bad for the game? At this stage?

The point isn’t “don’t counter ghost and quake”, please listen and comprehend what people are saying.

“The same few champs” does not include champions like tigra, Elsa, prof X, mr negative, spider Gwen etc. They are not the top of the meta, broken champions.

GroundedWisdom

For that matter, is is surprising that relying on the same few Champs is bad for the game? At this stage?
The point isn’t “don’t counter ghost and quake”, please listen and comprehend what people are saying.

“The same few champs” does not include champions like tigra, Elsa, prof X, mr negative, spider Gwen etc. They are not the top of the meta, broken champions.

Some counters are acute. Some affect a number of Champs. I find it comical that people beg for harder content and then proceed to complain when things are introduced that stop them from using certain Champs. You can't expect to make challenging content and not limit choices in some form or another. Not on a complete scale. This idea that we can all play against soft limits with whoever we want all the time is not realistic. Not in a game with as many Champs as we have.
It's never been a game of resting on any options. Yet we have this same argument whenever something is introduced that counters Champs. "Nerf! Nerf!"
It's called creating content that plays to different Champs.

GroundedWisdom

For the record, Elsa is my favorite go-to on my Attack Roster. I ain't mad because you can't use her all the time, for everything.

BitterSteel

For that matter, is is surprising that relying on the same few Champs is bad for the game? At this stage?
The point isn’t “don’t counter ghost and quake”, please listen and comprehend what people are saying.

“The same few champs” does not include champions like tigra, Elsa, prof X, mr negative, spider Gwen etc. They are not the top of the meta, broken champions.
Some counters are acute. Some affect a number of Champs. I find it comical that people beg for harder content and then proceed to complain when things are introduced that stop them from using certain Champs. You can't expect to make challenging content and not limit choices in some form or another. Not on a complete scale. This idea that we can all play against soft limits with whoever we want all the time is not realistic. Not in a game with as many Champs as we have.
It's never been a game of resting on any options. Yet we have this same argument whenever something is introduced that counters Champs. "Nerf! Nerf!"
It's called creating content that plays to different Champs.

And if that’s what Kabam had said, then sure, maybe I’d put more stock into your opinion.

But Kabam said “We all know that there are a couple of Champions in the game that play by different rules than everyone else”. They also said don’t expect to be able to quake or ghost your way through SoP, and true focus has been on a fair few of the fights. So we know that this change is in direct response to quake and ghost.

They aren’t saying AW should have less options, they aren’t saying we are trying to change the general AW structure up or that AW should be made more challenging by this one change. They are specifically saying we want to counter quake and ghost. That is a fact, and they are not doing what they have set out to do. They are countering other champions too.

GroundedWisdom

For that matter, is is surprising that relying on the same few Champs is bad for the game? At this stage?
The point isn’t “don’t counter ghost and quake”, please listen and comprehend what people are saying.

“The same few champs” does not include champions like tigra, Elsa, prof X, mr negative, spider Gwen etc. They are not the top of the meta, broken champions.
Some counters are acute. Some affect a number of Champs. I find it comical that people beg for harder content and then proceed to complain when things are introduced that stop them from using certain Champs. You can't expect to make challenging content and not limit choices in some form or another. Not on a complete scale. This idea that we can all play against soft limits with whoever we want all the time is not realistic. Not in a game with as many Champs as we have.
It's never been a game of resting on any options. Yet we have this same argument whenever something is introduced that counters Champs. "Nerf! Nerf!"
It's called creating content that plays to different Champs.
And if that’s what Kabam had said, then sure, maybe I’d put more stock into your opinion.

But Kabam said “We all know that there are a couple of Champions in the game that play by different rules than everyone else”. They also said don’t expect to be able to quake or ghost your way through SoP, and true focus has been on a fair few of the fights. So we know that this change is in direct response to quake and ghost.

They aren’t saying AW should have less options, they aren’t saying we are trying to change the general AW structure up or that AW should be made more challenging by this one change. They are specifically saying we want to counter quake and ghost. That is a fact, and they are not doing what they have set out to do. They are countering other champions too.

What they are saying is there's a Node, and it counters Quake and Ghost among others. Not every decision is one-sided. It's a Node that counters specific Abilities, and they're not the only Champs that have those Abilities. This whole idea that they only added it for Quake and Ghost is tunneled conjecture.

BitterSteel

For that matter, is is surprising that relying on the same few Champs is bad for the game? At this stage?
The point isn’t “don’t counter ghost and quake”, please listen and comprehend what people are saying.

“The same few champs” does not include champions like tigra, Elsa, prof X, mr negative, spider Gwen etc. They are not the top of the meta, broken champions.
Some counters are acute. Some affect a number of Champs. I find it comical that people beg for harder content and then proceed to complain when things are introduced that stop them from using certain Champs. You can't expect to make challenging content and not limit choices in some form or another. Not on a complete scale. This idea that we can all play against soft limits with whoever we want all the time is not realistic. Not in a game with as many Champs as we have.
It's never been a game of resting on any options. Yet we have this same argument whenever something is introduced that counters Champs. "Nerf! Nerf!"
It's called creating content that plays to different Champs.
And if that’s what Kabam had said, then sure, maybe I’d put more stock into your opinion.

But Kabam said “We all know that there are a couple of Champions in the game that play by different rules than everyone else”. They also said don’t expect to be able to quake or ghost your way through SoP, and true focus has been on a fair few of the fights. So we know that this change is in direct response to quake and ghost.

They aren’t saying AW should have less options, they aren’t saying we are trying to change the general AW structure up or that AW should be made more challenging by this one change. They are specifically saying we want to counter quake and ghost. That is a fact, and they are not doing what they have set out to do. They are countering other champions too.
What they are saying is there's a Node, and it counters Quake and Ghost among others. Not every decision is one-sided. It's a Node that counters specific Abilities, and they're not the only Champs that have those Abilities. This whole idea that they only added it for Quake and Ghost is tunneled conjecture.

Have you read this?

Because it proves your point entirely wrong

GroundedWisdom

Just because that was the reasoning for adding it to War doesn't mean the Nodes themselves were designed with those two Champs alone in mind, and it certainly doesn't mean it's only meant to affect two Champs. The game doesn't revolve around those two Champs.

BitterSteel

Just because that was the reasoning for adding it to War doesn't mean the Nodes themselves were designed with those two Champs alone in mind, and it certainly doesn't mean it's only meant to affect two Champs. The game doesn't revolve around those two Champs.

Then in war add a node that only affects quake and ghost. The post I screenshotted confirms Kabam only did it because of ghost and quake, so only counter them. You see where your reasoning falls apart right?

GroundedWisdom

My reasoning is in tact. Your assumption is that it's only supposed to affect Quake and Ghost. It's supposed to inhibit all Champs with the Abilities they possess.

Fred_Joeity

Interesting node idea but all things considered it’s probably a bit too on the nose

BitterSteel

My reasoning is in tact. Your assumption is that it's only supposed to affect Quake and Ghost. It's supposed to inhibit all Champs with the Abilities they possess.

It’s not an assumption. It’s what Kabam have said. It’s there in plain text. There’s disagreeing and then there’s ignoring facts to suit your opinion.

I’m not really interested in trying to show you that the sky is blue, so I think I’ll leave this one here. Try and use facts to derive your opinion, and not the other way around.

unknown

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GroundedWisdom

Yes. I read what you provided. I understood what they said. I also saw that they didn't want to stop people from using them completely, which is a whole #### storm even I wouldn't respond to in the event that ban came about. Which means I'm sure they were aware that other Champions would be affected by that Node. That's the solution they chose. What do you suggest? They design a "No Ghost or Quake" Node? Not likely. My point was those two Champs aren't the only application for that Node. Just because it was used to respond to people cheesing with them doesn't mean that's the only thing meant to be affected by that Node. So people can't use their Elsas and Negatives on Boss Island. They weren't likely using them much there anyway. People will have to use someone else.