Hercules immortality bug (or hotfix)

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  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,510 ★★★★★

    5RSLY said:



    The misleading YouTube videos, and where responsibility lies for people having the wrong impression... That's a very different argument I'm not planning to get into. I can see several sides to that story. If you guys really want Herc-specific RDTs or a system like when Namor was "rebalanced" and you get back any resources you've used on him... Go for it. But consider where in earth you'll actually use those resources: if Herc isn't enough (even without the ability to tank SP3s)... who will be?

    Why would you say that the youtube videos were misleading when they were simply showing how he performed? At what point did Kabam stand up and say "hey this isn't how he is supposed to work, we are going to change it"

    When shang-chi was introduced they accidentally created a mechanism by which he could infinitely chain combos. They realized the error, acknowledged it and set forth expectations that this would be changed.

    The way herc was "fixed" was a completely silent change without warning. When people realized it, Kabam deleted two threads in general which were bringing light to this issue since no one knew if it was an intended nerf or not. Rather than give advance notice or approach the matter head on, this change was clandestine and it can't help but leave a very sour taste in my mouth (and probably many others) despite the fact that I still think that Herc is a great champ, he can just no longer tank SP3s.

    Like others have pointed out, pro-player "bugs" seem to take priority over other issues in the game that have persisted. I would just prefer if Kabam would focus on the quality of the user experience as a means to increase revenue rather than count how many units they can make users spend to complete content.
    There is no such thing as a pro-player bug. No one also posted asking if it was the intended outcome before the fix was implemented either. Once again, this is the only place to ask those questions. Not YouTube. As useful a resource as it can be, Kabam can only speak for Kabam. If it wasn't even brought to their attention by Players, how can they respond? It's been a month of working on some pretty significant issues.
    As for those Threads, it wasn't until I pointed out that the Bugs Section was the proper place to inquire, that it was responded to appropriately. This place has a history of generating "silent nerf" Posts, and if we're not sure if it's working as intended or not, there's a way to find out.
    Kabam promotes the CCP do they not? It is Kabams game correct? Therefore it is up to them to say hey this doesn’t work like this and let the community know it. It goes with their transparency plan. The bugs are out of control, the game is broken and has been. Profits are down and this will make it worse. You all can continue to defend them until the end of the game because it’s coming sooner rather than later because of things just like this.
    They work with them, sure. Do they orchestrate everything they put out? Do they watch every piece of content they put out? No. Kabam speaks for Kabam. Not the CCP. Not exclusively. As for the end of the game, this is the longest dying game I've ever seen because people have been threatening that for years.
    Don't be insane. Of course someone at Kabam is responsible for monitoring CCP content.
    So you think someone is responsible for watching every video that every member of the CCP puts out, and checking for indiscrepancies? Hmm....
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 21,833 ★★★★★

    5RSLY said:



    The misleading YouTube videos, and where responsibility lies for people having the wrong impression... That's a very different argument I'm not planning to get into. I can see several sides to that story. If you guys really want Herc-specific RDTs or a system like when Namor was "rebalanced" and you get back any resources you've used on him... Go for it. But consider where in earth you'll actually use those resources: if Herc isn't enough (even without the ability to tank SP3s)... who will be?

    Why would you say that the youtube videos were misleading when they were simply showing how he performed? At what point did Kabam stand up and say "hey this isn't how he is supposed to work, we are going to change it"

    When shang-chi was introduced they accidentally created a mechanism by which he could infinitely chain combos. They realized the error, acknowledged it and set forth expectations that this would be changed.

    The way herc was "fixed" was a completely silent change without warning. When people realized it, Kabam deleted two threads in general which were bringing light to this issue since no one knew if it was an intended nerf or not. Rather than give advance notice or approach the matter head on, this change was clandestine and it can't help but leave a very sour taste in my mouth (and probably many others) despite the fact that I still think that Herc is a great champ, he can just no longer tank SP3s.

    Like others have pointed out, pro-player "bugs" seem to take priority over other issues in the game that have persisted. I would just prefer if Kabam would focus on the quality of the user experience as a means to increase revenue rather than count how many units they can make users spend to complete content.
    There is no such thing as a pro-player bug. No one also posted asking if it was the intended outcome before the fix was implemented either. Once again, this is the only place to ask those questions. Not YouTube. As useful a resource as it can be, Kabam can only speak for Kabam. If it wasn't even brought to their attention by Players, how can they respond? It's been a month of working on some pretty significant issues.
    As for those Threads, it wasn't until I pointed out that the Bugs Section was the proper place to inquire, that it was responded to appropriately. This place has a history of generating "silent nerf" Posts, and if we're not sure if it's working as intended or not, there's a way to find out.
    Kabam promotes the CCP do they not? It is Kabams game correct? Therefore it is up to them to say hey this doesn’t work like this and let the community know it. It goes with their transparency plan. The bugs are out of control, the game is broken and has been. Profits are down and this will make it worse. You all can continue to defend them until the end of the game because it’s coming sooner rather than later because of things just like this.
    They work with them, sure. Do they orchestrate everything they put out? Do they watch every piece of content they put out? No. Kabam speaks for Kabam. Not the CCP. Not exclusively. As for the end of the game, this is the longest dying game I've ever seen because people have been threatening that for years.
    Don't be insane. Of course someone at Kabam is responsible for monitoring CCP content.
    I dunno. Comments Seatin make about the game and it's state during those videos make me wonder how moderated they are.
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Member Posts: 2,638 ★★★★★
    GOODI3 said:

    GOODI3 said:

    GOODI3 said:

    This was not a “bug”, but a nerf. Odin prefight stacking was a bug.

    @Kabam Miike Poor communication and handling of the situation. This is enough to make me say goodbye.

    Ign: Tap Tap Swipe

    I'm curious. You have a sig 200 R3 Hercules. Would you rank him down if you could? When you first went for him, did you know he could tank 1 SP3? Is this why you went for him? I agree that Kabam handled this badly but that doesn't make it a nerf and I don't see how being able to tank 1 SP3 is that significant. Luke Cage can tank multiple SP3s and I don't see a lot of people ranking him. I have a 6* Herc but wasn't able to dupe him. But when I burned a lot of units on cavs to get him, I was unaware of the SP3 thing.
    Rankdown tickets won’t fix the situation. I genuinely did not come to the forums to debate whether it was a “bug” or nerf. We know it was a nerf. Yes, I was well aware of the ability prior to pulling the champ, using a generic ag and all of the stones. If tanking one sp3 was not a “big deal”, why nerf him then? Rhetorical question.

    Btw, there are other champs besides LC that can tank…

    Again, genuinely curious. Would you still have used the generic on him if you knew what you know now? I would use a generic on mine. Whether or not it is a nerf depends on whether or not you believe that the devs did not intend for him to be able to tank a SP3. I do agree with your rhetorical question. I don't think this ability was game breaking and they'd have done better to leave him the way he was. But he's still amazing and I don't think its this huge thing some are making it out to be.

    I am aware there are others. Luke Cage was an example, not an exhaustive list lol
    Tbh I most likely would have saved the generic.

    Not big on speculating what the developers intent was during the entire month of July (here we are August 17th) and doing so won’t change the fact that it was a nerf.

    “Nerf (lowercase)Slang. (in a video game) to reconfigure (an existing character or weapon), making it less powerful.”
    He needs his sig to be any good. Quit the 🧢
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,510 ★★★★★
    As far as I'm aware, the only Official Review was the Deep Dive, and it wasn't even pointed out then. So no, they weren't promoting this bug through the CCP.
  • The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Member Posts: 7,783 ★★★★★
    GOODI3 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    GOODI3 said:

    GOODI3 said:

    GOODI3 said:

    This was not a “bug”, but a nerf. Odin prefight stacking was a bug.

    @Kabam Miike Poor communication and handling of the situation. This is enough to make me say goodbye.

    Ign: Tap Tap Swipe

    I'm curious. You have a sig 200 R3 Hercules. Would you rank him down if you could? When you first went for him, did you know he could tank 1 SP3? Is this why you went for him? I agree that Kabam handled this badly but that doesn't make it a nerf and I don't see how being able to tank 1 SP3 is that significant. Luke Cage can tank multiple SP3s and I don't see a lot of people ranking him. I have a 6* Herc but wasn't able to dupe him. But when I burned a lot of units on cavs to get him, I was unaware of the SP3 thing.
    Rankdown tickets won’t fix the situation. I genuinely did not come to the forums to debate whether it was a “bug” or nerf. We know it was a nerf. Yes, I was well aware of the ability prior to pulling the champ, using a generic ag and all of the stones. If tanking one sp3 was not a “big deal”, why nerf him then? Rhetorical question.

    Btw, there are other champs besides LC that can tank…

    Again, genuinely curious. Would you still have used the generic on him if you knew what you know now? I would use a generic on mine. Whether or not it is a nerf depends on whether or not you believe that the devs did not intend for him to be able to tank a SP3. I do agree with your rhetorical question. I don't think this ability was game breaking and they'd have done better to leave him the way he was. But he's still amazing and I don't think its this huge thing some are making it out to be.

    I am aware there are others. Luke Cage was an example, not an exhaustive list lol
    Tbh I most likely would have saved the generic.

    Not big on speculating what the developers intent was during the entire month of July (here we are August 17th) and doing so won’t change the fact that it was a nerf.

    “Nerf (lowercase)Slang. (in a video game) to reconfigure (an existing character or weapon), making it less powerful.”
    He needs his sig to be any good. Quit the 🧢
    Question: Would you still have used a generic on him?

    Answer: No.

    Run along now…
    I mean he can still go immortal and has that nice combat power rate increase which helps out nicely. I personally would still use it cause more often that not, I die from getting clipped by unblockable specials or basic attacks.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,510 ★★★★★
    People would have gotten the same response had they asked last month. It's not supposed to tank the Special. Not sure what more they could say.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Member Posts: 2,387 ★★★★★
    Still silence, eh?

    Hmm... let me try and make sense of this ability

    What if, because SP3 is considered as a single source of damage, if it would be enough to kill him, his Immortality actually triggers as soon as the SP3 triggers, but is removed afterwards, effectively killing him?

    The Champion removes Persistent Charges on SP3 activation even if it does KO, so maybe it's a similar situation.

    However, even this does not explain how he was shown as being able to survive SP3s by both the CCP and the EQ Hercules, so...

    I don't get it.

    Did anyone really say anything during the EQ, or did they just think that that was supposed to be how he works?

    Also... if you ask me, it really does look awfully convenient that nothing was done when the EQ was active, but was fixed not very long afterwards, when this behaviour was never intended – but that's just my two cents.

    I considered that as well, but it shouldn't have worked on multi-hit SP3s before. I don't think it was worth changing as it doesn't make him terrible or anything, but the way they went about it was so so bad. Pretty safe bet that they know we'll quit complaining eventually and go back to buying stuff, so they can do whatever lame customer relations shens they want, poorly thought-out or not.
  • magnus_xixmagnus_xix Member Posts: 2,019 ★★★★★
    edited September 2021
    Bravehahn said:

    It started out as a nerf to his immortality sig ability. now, i am noticing the more i use hercules throughout event quests, variant, alliance wars, etc. I am getting knocked out left and right when there are NO defensive ability accuracy reduction nodes nor anything of that sort. ultron's variant, i am getting knocked out by ultron though he has no offensive ability accuracy reduction trait, there are also no nodes that imply the same thing. alliance wars, there is no ability accuracy reduction on specific nodes when i am fighting, path 4 and boss island left side. YET i am getting knocked out by a jabari panther whom also has ZERO ability accuracy reduction. these are just two examples that i am noticing hercules immortality sig ability NOT triggering.

    Pilfer regeneration is everywhere in Variant 1. That node can nullify Hercules' immortality buff instantly and leave you vulnerable to death.

    As for Jabari panther, what nodes were on her?
  • BravehahnBravehahn Member Posts: 3

    Bravehahn said:

    It started out as a nerf to his immortality sig ability. now, i am noticing the more i use hercules throughout event quests, variant, alliance wars, etc. I am getting knocked out left and right when there are NO defensive ability accuracy reduction nodes nor anything of that sort. ultron's variant, i am getting knocked out by ultron though he has no offensive ability accuracy reduction trait, there are also no nodes that imply the same thing. alliance wars, there is no ability accuracy reduction on specific nodes when i am fighting, path 4 and boss island left side. YET i am getting knocked out by a jabari panther whom also has ZERO ability accuracy reduction. these are just two examples that i am noticing hercules immortality sig ability NOT triggering.

    Pilfer regeneration is everywhere in Variant 1. That node can nullify Hercules' immortality buff instantly and leave you vulnerable to death.

    As for Jabari panther, what nodes were on her?
    Node 48 in AW: Rage 2.5, Extend, Return Policy - 2, True Focus... where in there is defensive ability accuracy reduction? Nowhere.

    Another example:
    Variant 2.0 Microrealm: hercules got knocked out pre immortality buff in 2.2 to a medusa. where is there a defensive ability accuracy reduction for a NON-robotic champion? none. nothing that she can do to get rid of immortality from triggering. also nothing in variant 2.0 to knock hercules out automatically. the sig ability states when receiving any damage that WOULD result in a knockout, gain immortality. that should be any and all damage.

    I'm going to keep posting these as I come across them.

    ALSO NOTE. NOTICE HOW MY ORIGINAL POST IS AGAIN DELETED FROM THE THREAD so I will post again.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,510 ★★★★★
    Fuzzycat said:

    People would have gotten the same response had they asked last month. It's not supposed to tank the Special. Not sure what more they could say.

    And yet Hercules boss in Cavalier monthly EQ was tanking our SP3. Which is why we thought that Hercules has the ability to trigger immortality buff the SP3 IF the SP3 has the potential to knock him out. That’s why no one reported about the “bug”. Because everyone thought everything was working then “as intended.”

    And once the monthly EQ is over, Kabam comes out and says “oh, we knew about the bug and we fixed it already.” And no mention of it in Patch Notes 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ That’s Kabam for you.

    Let’s admit it - Kabam messed up this one real bad. And one would need to be Kabam bootlicker or myopic not to acknowledge it.
    Do you propose they stop the EQ and fix it? Patch Notes, fair game. The existence of a bug that isn't fixed yet is not proof of deception.
  • magnus_xixmagnus_xix Member Posts: 2,019 ★★★★★
    Bravehahn said:

    Bravehahn said:

    It started out as a nerf to his immortality sig ability. now, i am noticing the more i use hercules throughout event quests, variant, alliance wars, etc. I am getting knocked out left and right when there are NO defensive ability accuracy reduction nodes nor anything of that sort. ultron's variant, i am getting knocked out by ultron though he has no offensive ability accuracy reduction trait, there are also no nodes that imply the same thing. alliance wars, there is no ability accuracy reduction on specific nodes when i am fighting, path 4 and boss island left side. YET i am getting knocked out by a jabari panther whom also has ZERO ability accuracy reduction. these are just two examples that i am noticing hercules immortality sig ability NOT triggering.

    Pilfer regeneration is everywhere in Variant 1. That node can nullify Hercules' immortality buff instantly and leave you vulnerable to death.

    As for Jabari panther, what nodes were on her?
    Node 48 in AW: Rage 2.5, Extend, Return Policy - 2, True Focus... where in there is defensive ability accuracy reduction? Nowhere.

    Another example:
    Variant 2.0 Microrealm: hercules got knocked out pre immortality buff in 2.2 to a medusa. where is there a defensive ability accuracy reduction for a NON-robotic champion? none. nothing that she can do to get rid of immortality from triggering. also nothing in variant 2.0 to knock hercules out automatically. the sig ability states when receiving any damage that WOULD result in a knockout, gain immortality. that should be any and all damage.

    I'm going to keep posting these as I come across them.

    ALSO NOTE. NOTICE HOW MY ORIGINAL POST IS AGAIN DELETED FROM THE THREAD so I will post again.
    Jabari panther - Assassin mastery

    Medusa - if you triggered immortality in the same frame as when your hitting the opponent, glancing can fail its activation. You can read more about the true nature of ability accuracy reduction here:

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/269748/combat-mechanics-theres-no-such-thing-as-defensive-ability-accuracy/p1

  • JK_47JK_47 Member Posts: 276 ★★
    @Maat1985 see ignoring does make stuff go away
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