It is stupid that this node affects so many champs, who even aren't so OP (such as Prof X, Stryfe or Ebony Maw) like Ghost and Quake.
I like a solutions someone proposed: give Quake&Ghost a unique #op tag and restrict True Focus only to holders of this tag.
Also I feel like True Focus is a being bit overreacted to. Where has it been so far? SoP, Shang-Chi challenge, top tier AW. Yet there are people who go around saying "True focus now everywhere". Yet there's still Act 6, AoL, Act 7 and Variants without it. It is in TEMPORARY content only. All permanent stuff is free of this node. It is unpleasant but not as everpresent as some people put it.
It's not in permanent content because no new permanent content has been released since it dropped. It's been in every piece of temporary content since its been introduced. I would like to know if I should steer clear of all the miss/ evade champs because kabam is going to slap this node in every piece of content moving forward.
I know, still people say "It is in all difficult content. It isn't. It is in temporary stuff. I doubt majority of those who complain have Breaker of Thrones and Abyss exploration.
And I dislike the node as much as you do. I don't have Ghost and refuse to play Quake, but I love my Prof X, Stryfe, Spider-ham and Ebony Maw. These are heavily affected by this node too and their use is much restricted. I am all in for a change of the node. I just think the hystery around this node is an exaggeration. These champs can still be used in vast majority of both permanent and temporary content.
It is stupid that this node affects so many champs, who even aren't so OP (such as Prof X, Stryfe or Ebony Maw) like Ghost and Quake.
I like a solutions someone proposed: give Quake&Ghost a unique #op tag and restrict True Focus only to holders of this tag.
Also I feel like True Focus is a being bit overreacted to. Where has it been so far? SoP, Shang-Chi challenge, top tier AW. Yet there are people who go around saying "True focus now everywhere". Yet there's still Act 6, AoL, Act 7 and Variants without it. It is in TEMPORARY content only. All permanent stuff is free of this node. It is unpleasant but not as everpresent as some people put it.
It's not in permanent content because no new permanent content has been released since it dropped. It's been in every piece of temporary content since its been introduced. I would like to know if I should steer clear of all the miss/ evade champs because kabam is going to slap this node in every piece of content moving forward.
I know, still people say "It is in all difficult content. It isn't. It is in temporary stuff. I doubt majority of those who complain have Breaker of Thrones and Abyss exploration.
And I dislike the node as much as you do. I don't have Ghost and refuse to play Quake, but I love my Prof X, Stryfe, Spider-ham and Ebony Maw. These are heavily affected by this node too and their use is much restricted. I am all in for a change of the node. I just think the hystery around this node is an exaggeration. These champs can still be used in vast majority of both permanent and temporary content.
No permanent content has been released yet since the introduction of true focus.
We will have to wait and see for act 7.3 whether it’s there, but honestly I don’t think that counts tbh. Act 7 isn’t the direction Kabam want to go with hard content as they’ve said.
The real test is temporary hard content, when permanent hard content is released, and what happens with hard content like AW. So far, 2/3 have had true focus, and the last one hasn’t been released. It’s not looking good.
I mean....the only other alternative I can see is a percentage-based chance to fail. Then people are at the mercy of the RNG.
That would make them useless in my view. Even at 99% chance for quake to fail, it’s too little.
I honestly have no idea how a nerf would be done, but I don’t think that would be it.
A nerf for quake could be by adding some way for the opponent to gain power. Maybe they gain 34% of a bar every time her aftershock activates. That way she could still quake like normal but wouldn't have the complete shutdown she normally has, plus you'd need to break rhythm to bait specials.
For ghost you could maybe allow her to only remove bleed and poison debuffs with phase? Maybe incinerates too.
Ok, bit of a wild thought, and feel free to shoot me down lol, but I just thought what if Quake got an entire overhaul, and Kabam gave her a really amazing kit. I’m thinking some sort of buff that was Diablo level good. Made her a genuinely amazing champion and have her play normally, not like quake does now. Then she’s not so broken, and quake players still have a really amazing champ worth ranking and using.
My reasoning is that the Dr Strange nerf took way too much away from those champions. And left people with a shell of a champion nobody would rank.
And remember this is all along a hypothetical of what if they HAD to be nerfed, not that I would do this no questions asked.
So instead of having nerfing quake to have a 95% chance to evade, or one that has 50% AAR, that we just wouldn’t use, instead of ruining the champion and going way, way too far with a nerf. Go for more of a rebalance, which keeps quake as a useful champion, with a brilliant, useful kit, and one that people would be happy to rank.
Wait that's actually such a good idea. I'd be all down for both G&Q to receive that treatment. Provided they give ghost a very valuable Sig level so as not to screw over those who have dumped Sig stones into her. But yeah, absolutely fantastic idea @BitterSteel 👏
It is stupid that this node affects so many champs, who even aren't so OP (such as Prof X, Stryfe or Ebony Maw) like Ghost and Quake.
I like a solutions someone proposed: give Quake&Ghost a unique #op tag and restrict True Focus only to holders of this tag.
Also I feel like True Focus is a being bit overreacted to. Where has it been so far? SoP, Shang-Chi challenge, top tier AW. Yet there are people who go around saying "True focus now everywhere". Yet there's still Act 6, AoL, Act 7 and Variants without it. It is in TEMPORARY content only. All permanent stuff is free of this node. It is unpleasant but not as everpresent as some people put it.
It's not in permanent content because no new permanent content has been released since it dropped. It's been in every piece of temporary content since its been introduced. I would like to know if I should steer clear of all the miss/ evade champs because kabam is going to slap this node in every piece of content moving forward.
I know, still people say "It is in all difficult content. It isn't. It is in temporary stuff. I doubt majority of those who complain have Breaker of Thrones and Abyss exploration.
And I dislike the node as much as you do. I don't have Ghost and refuse to play Quake, but I love my Prof X, Stryfe, Spider-ham and Ebony Maw. These are heavily affected by this node too and their use is much restricted. I am all in for a change of the node. I just think the hystery around this node is an exaggeration. These champs can still be used in vast majority of both permanent and temporary content.
No permanent content has been released yet since the introduction of true focus.
We will have to wait and see for act 7.3 whether it’s there, but honestly I don’t think that counts tbh. Act 7 isn’t the direction Kabam want to go with hard content as they’ve said.
The real test is temporary hard content, when permanent hard content is released, and what happens with hard content like AW. So far, 2/3 have had true focus, and the last one hasn’t been released. It’s not looking good.
Agreed, it is 7.3 that will show. I also have doubts about True Focus making an appearance there.
Also I have really mixed feelings about AW, I kinda feel like it shouldn't be there, because top tier AW is hard enough without it.
I feel like Kabam has been trying to make temporary hard content Ghost&Quake-proof for some time before, but I may be wrong. I know this content holds very nice rewards and it is the focus of majority of endgame players rn. I only wanted to ppint out, that people who are one the verge of starting a RDT petition are a bit overreacting. There is still temporary content where these champs can be used without regulation and (as we both said), 7.3 is probably gonna be no exception.
TL;DR Quake and Ghost are still incredibly valuable champs to rankup and learn. They have lost a minor fraction pf their value but they aren't useless as some imply.
Kabaam I hope this is the last piece of content we will see this node. Moving forward we can't have a node that renders some of the champs useless in this game especially as a global node. That would be very unjust on kabaam side.
Giving this thread has be going on for long am sure kabaam is surely aware how this true focus node affects us. If kabaam puts this true focus as a global node moving forward or making the node a common thing in the future it just shows that kabaam doesn't give a damn about the community.
It is stupid that this node affects so many champs, who even aren't so OP (such as Prof X, Stryfe or Ebony Maw) like Ghost and Quake.
I like a solutions someone proposed: give Quake&Ghost a unique #op tag and restrict True Focus only to holders of this tag.
Also I feel like True Focus is a being bit overreacted to. Where has it been so far? SoP, Shang-Chi challenge, top tier AW. Yet there are people who go around saying "True focus now everywhere". Yet there's still Act 6, AoL, Act 7 and Variants without it. It is in TEMPORARY content only. All permanent stuff is free of this node. It is unpleasant but not as everpresent as some people put it.
It's not in permanent content because no new permanent content has been released since it dropped. It's been in every piece of temporary content since its been introduced. I would like to know if I should steer clear of all the miss/ evade champs because kabam is going to slap this node in every piece of content moving forward.
I know, still people say "It is in all difficult content. It isn't. It is in temporary stuff. I doubt majority of those who complain have Breaker of Thrones and Abyss exploration.
And I dislike the node as much as you do. I don't have Ghost and refuse to play Quake, but I love my Prof X, Stryfe, Spider-ham and Ebony Maw. These are heavily affected by this node too and their use is much restricted. I am all in for a change of the node. I just think the hystery around this node is an exaggeration. These champs can still be used in vast majority of both permanent and temporary content.
No permanent content has been released yet since the introduction of true focus.
We will have to wait and see for act 7.3 whether it’s there, but honestly I don’t think that covers it easier
I mean....the only other alternative I can see is a percentage-based chance to fail. Then people are at the mercy of the RNG.
That would make them useless in my view. Even at 99% chance for quake to fail, it’s too little.
I honestly have no idea how a nerf would be done, but I don’t think that would be it.
A nerf for quake could be by adding some way for the opponent to gain power. Maybe they gain 34% of a bar every time her aftershock activates. That way she could still quake like normal but wouldn't have the complete shutdown she normally has, plus you'd need to break rhythm to bait specials.
For ghost you could maybe allow her to only remove bleed and poison debuffs with phase? Maybe incinerates too.
Ok, bit of a wild thought, and feel free to shoot me down lol, but I just thought what if Quake got an entire overhaul, and Kabam gave her a really amazing kit. I’m thinking some sort of buff that was Diablo level good. Made her a genuinely amazing champion and have her play normally, not like quake does now. Then she’s not so broken, and quake players still have a really amazing champ worth ranking and using.
My reasoning is that the Dr Strange nerf took way too much away from those champions. And left people with a shell of a champion nobody would rank.
And remember this is all along a hypothetical of what if they HAD to be nerfed, not that I would do this no questions asked.
So instead of having nerfing quake to have a 95% chance to evade, or one that has 50% AAR, that we just wouldn’t use, instead of ruining the champion and going way, way too far with a nerf. Go for more of a rebalance, which keeps quake as a useful champion, with a brilliant, useful kit, and one that people would be happy to rank.
Wait that's actually such a good idea. I'd be all down for both G&Q to receive that treatment. Provided they give ghost a very valuable Sig level so as not to screw over those who have dumped Sig stones into her. But yeah, absolutely fantastic idea @BitterSteel 👏
Thank you! I think it’s probably the lesser of the evils if they absolutely needed a nerf. May as well take advantage of the Buff Program Kabam have created!
Plus, I’d finally get to use Quake’s SP3 occasionally. Seriously, has anyone ever actually seen it?
It is stupid that this node affects so many champs, who even aren't so OP (such as Prof X, Stryfe or Ebony Maw) like Ghost and Quake.
I like a solutions someone proposed: give Quake&Ghost a unique #op tag and restrict True Focus only to holders of this tag.
Also I feel like True Focus is a being bit overreacted to. Where has it been so far? SoP, Shang-Chi challenge, top tier AW. Yet there are people who go around saying "True focus now everywhere". Yet there's still Act 6, AoL, Act 7 and Variants without it. It is in TEMPORARY content only. All permanent stuff is free of this node. It is unpleasant but not as everpresent as some people put it.
This is my thoughts as well. I have a r3 sig 150 ghost that I only use in case of emergency. It's the loss of my Prof X that I genuinely love playing that annoys me about this node.
However, two things I feel have kind of been over exaggerated in this thread. First, this node has waaaaay more impact on evaders (read quake) than miss. I used my ghost a lot in sop. Her playstyle changes but all the rest of what makes her amazing still exists. Agreed, the altering of her preferred play style is annoying but I mean you'd think she was worthless and that's just not true. She can still be amazing playing intercept style.... just without a safety net.
Second, it's not like this came out of left field. People have been saying the time was coming when quake and ghost would be neutered. Someone mentioned quakes been around for 3 years.... that's a long time at the top. Expecting these chemistry to remain at the top forever is unrealistic.
Now, I fully agree a sledge hammer was used to swat a fly here. A more precise tool. To cut just q + g off would have been preferred but they chose not to do it. I think it sucks, but this is the ever evolving door. How else can they drum up interest in new champs. KP has to serve a purpose and now she does. I expect future champs will continue to fill a role....else why would any of us chase them?
And it's just baffling to me that people are even suggesting a nerf. Namor and Cull were released for 2 or 3 months before they were nerfed. Quake for FOUR YEARS. Ghost for THREE YEARS. Don't know bout y'all, but I remember Ghosting the #### out of all those bs 6.2 fights and Quaking the #### out of those bs Gauntlet fights. Their influence in the game is so massive that nerfing them would be stupid for anyone who hasn't fully completed all the content in the game that people have used Ghost and Quake for.
I agree that there should be some limits to Ghosting and Quaking every challenge without breaking a sweat, especially when the nodes are completely manageable with many other champions, but having True Focus everywhere straight up BANS the two and all the other champions who rely on Evade and Miss.
P.S. I have a r3 Ghost and barely used her while exploring 7.2 paths. Kabam, there are much better ways to encourage use of other champions, as shown by many Act 7 nodes.
Still stand by my point that it's impossible to nerf Quake and Ghost, even for the sake of getting rid of True Focus. They have just been in the game for too long. Don't know 'bout yer experience with both champs, but I have had much use of both champs over the last 4 years. For Quake, the 4-Star was essential for my Act 5 clearing, ROL Wolverine (yes I was an idiot and brought Quake instead of Guilly), and in recent times multiple Gauntlet fights as well.
As for Ghost, I pulled the 5-Star after getting Cav. She was used, excessively, throughout the rest of Act 6. In 6.2 the nodes there were so annoying that no other champion in my roster could handle those, except for Ghost. Basically essential for multiple paths and ****ty bosses like 6.3.6 Cap IW. I did not, and still, to this day, do not own a Wasp, so there was a big learning curve in getting all the special intercepts timing right when ye did not have unblockable to rely on. Thoroughly enjoyed that experience with learning the champ and Ghost is to this date probably my favourite champion in terms of playstyle.
Apologies for the dive into my account history, the point I'd like to make is that by nerfing these two champions, you are effectively stripping players from being able to use them like I did. There are people out there who haven't done all the content that you and I have used Ghost and Quake for. Heck, myself included, not even close to exploring Act 6. And what if I enjoy using Ghost? Am I not allowed to use whichever champion I enjoy?
If you rewind 4 years you could switch Ghost and Quake for Scarlet witch, Thor and Dr Strange during 12.0 nerfs and the exact same was happening.
I don’t think many people today would argue that nerfing dr strange and scarlet witch was a bad thing for the game. Strange was nerfed too hard, yes, but having a very small group of champions that are so much more powerful than others is not a good thing. They needed to be nerfed to create content that was fun and enjoyable for everyone else.
When SW, DS and Thor etc were on top, content was made niche to counter them, and it got to the point that you needed them and only them to get through it. This time, Ghost and Quake are so powerful that Kabam have changed their tune, not making content so hard that you *need* ghost and quake, but making content that is easier, but clumsily ruling ghost and quake out of the content, and affecting many other champs too.
The issue is the same, but Kabam are handling it differently this time, and I think it’s worse.
-small group of OP champions that are walking through content -content is being changed to accommodate these OP champions, to the detriment of other champions (last time it was by making content so hard the others couldn’t complete it. This time it’s true focus affecting other champions) -last time Kabam solved the issue by nerfing champions because there was such a huge problem with them being so much more OP than other champions -this time, I fear it’s heading towards that too, I just wish Kabam would either get rid of true focus and figure out a different way to stop them, or hurry up and do it and stop making the game less enjoyable for other champs
Nerfs and balances are not inherently bad for the game long term, it just feels bad short term. And it does feel very bad. In the aftermath of 12.0 there was an awful lot of terrible feedback for Kabam on nerfing those champions, but over time the community has seen that balancing the game, and having a more level playing field in terms of which champions are the best, is so much better for having consistently good, enjoyable and balanced content.
With all due respect I don't think it's the same case here at all. Pre-12.0 those champs made the game boring. Those 3 were basically twenty times better than everyone else and nobody bothered to rank other champs when they could infinitely regen and stun lock with SW, or just kill off ROL champs with Thor in 20-something hits. Plus the game didn't have nearly as much diversity in content as nowadays. That is not nearly the case with Ghost or Quake. As much as I enjoy Ghost, I cannot possibly use her for everything. People believe that with Ghost or Quake you can just automatically steamroll through the content, no that is not the case and that's what the rest of my roster is for, and 80% of the champs I ranked get daily usage in content. Sure, those 2 are probably the strongest champs in the current meta, but not even close to pre-12.0 overpowered imo. Honestly I don't think nerfs are needed nor are they practical for any old champ in the current state of the game anymore.
Some would say quake and ghost make the game boring (quake especially) since they just walk through content.
To be clear I’m not saying Kabam should hit the nerf button right now and with no other option. First option should without a doubt be figure out a way to stop quake and ghost without true focus. All I’m trying to say is that if, and a big if, ghost and quake were nerfed. It may suck short term, and it would really suck, but long term game may be improved
With all due respect, mate did you read what's in my post? "People believe that with Ghost or Quake you can just automatically steamroll through the content, no that is not the case and that's what the rest of my roster is for, and 80% of the champs I ranked get daily usage in content. Sure, those 2 are probably the strongest champs in the current meta, but not even close to pre-12.0 overpowered imo." Now Quake I agree is repetitive AF, but she by no means walks through content. Playing Quake requires immense focus and is quite stressful, and her damage isn't what makes her shine, many players can't master her and I don't think any non-Quake players have the right to talk about a Quake nerf. Ghost kinda varies between people, I absolutely love her playstyle so not for me, but my point being MCOC content is so varied nowadays that no champion can possibly walk through content the way SW, Thor and DS did pre-12.0, and everyone has a different concept of 'fun' and enjoying the game and you can't just go and define 'boring' for other players.
I didn’t mean “boring to play”. I meant makes the game boring, because they can walk through content. Quake counters literally hundreds of nodes, she is absolutely broken, to the point that the designers didn’t know she could even be played the way she can. Anyone saying Quake isn’t broken, and can’t walk through content is kidding themselves.
I agree not everyone can quake, and I agree it’s not the same as pre-12.0 SWitch for example. But as you said, the game has progressed. It’s not a case that just because some can’t quake, it’s not affecting the game. It demonstrably is, true focus is *because* of ghost and quake. Clearly, it doesn’t matter that not everyone can quake.
“ I don't think any non-Quake players have the right to talk about a Quake nerf”. I’m not sure what you mean by that? I’m both a quake and ghost player, rank 3 ghost, 5/65 quake.
Still don't think you get my point mate. Neither of these champs are that broken. Neither of them cheesewalk through content like you insist they do. Quake can counter a **** ton of stuff, yes, but you're sacrificing the bonkers-level damage that other champs have and you're playing stressfully and repetitively for the entire fight. No one uses Quake when you can do the same content with other champions, my 4-Star Quake only made an appearance in Gauntlet due to me having no other decent counter to Terrax and Vision, so basically only when the nodes don't really make sense and you don't even want to bother going through all that BS.
If you think that Kabam must do either True Focus or nerf, then mind you we have gone through 3 years of content without that needing to happen. Simply reverting True Focus is more than enough imo and Kabam doing more than that is straight up unncessary, just like the True Focus node itself.
"True Focus is *because* of ghost and quake" if Kabam's intention is to prevent us from using a select few champions for endgame content, and mind you this is only happening due to their own ****ty node design, then WHY IS THE SHANG-CHI QUEST DESIGNED AROUND CORVUS AND CORVUS ONLY????? Complete hypocrisy on Kabam's part.
And the part about not having the right to talk about Quake nerf, apologies that wasn't targeted at ye and had no idea ye played Quake based on ye comments on her, but more at the others out there who I just feel like don't even know what Quake is, just shouting for a nerf because other players are using her and they aren't.
And please do enlighten me on how you would nerf a champion like Quake, are you going to nerf her damage but it's already not top-tier. Any sort of nerf to her Evade/Concussion will drop her multiple tiers. Are you going to make her playstyle even more stressful because, well, no. High stress, high reward, this is in terms of utility and not damage, the way I see it Quake is well-balanced in her current state. As for Ghost I would be more understanding if you're trying to tune down her damage, but even then she has been like this for 3 years, we have already used her for so much content (you and I should know with r3 Ghosts), and it would be EXTREMELY unfair for anyone who's still trying to complete the same content with their Ghosts (and Quakes). They have their rights to enjoy current Ghost and not nerfed Ghost. That's why nerfs imo are completely out of the equation in the current state of the game. If they wanted to nerf Ghost, they should've done it 2 years ago, when she was the single most popular champion for Act 6.
I think Kabam have moved on from that type of Act 6 node design in Cav EQ and Act 7, rewarding nodes were already effective in encouraging use of other champs while not banning Ghost and Quake from content. But why move backwards with the recent stuff and then punish players for reverting to the old Act 6 mindset of Ghosting and Quaking this BS? I respect ye mate and everyone on this forum, what I don't respect is the Kabam devs doing this and taking no responsibility for it, instead bringing up nerfs to some main staples of the contest and bringing down a bunch of other champs with it.
Sorry for the long post but I need to make myself clear that True Focus/nerf is complete and utter BS, that's just my honest opinion so feel free to disagree or rebut my points.
I’ve been thinking about my response to this for a bit now, since it’s a long message. But here we go:
It’s honestly really surprising to hear someone say “quake isn’t broken” and then go onto say “I brought a 4* along with me into gauntlet”. I really hope you see how at odds those two statements are. Can’t think of many other champs you’d take as a 4*…
I think you’re overestimating how “stressful” quake is to play. She’s easy to play, she’s hard to learn. Again, so what if you’re sacrificing damage, you yourself have explained it’s worth it to bring even a 4* to gauntlet. She’s that good.
Shang chi challenge isn’t designed around Corvus or Aegon at all, Kabam didn’t design it specifically to give them advantages, they just happen to be the best options. Not to mention they’re not the only options. And you can bet your bottom dollar if true focus wasn’t there (which has been designed for Q and G) then those two would be walking all over it.
I’m not sure if you saw my idea on how to deal with a quake “nerf”. Let me know if you didn’t and I’ll link the comment from this thread
I don't understand why everyone is up in arms about nodes like this. People love to complain that "challenging content isn't challenging if you can just quake it", but then when challenging content uses true focus to counter quake/ghost, people complain that they can't use quake/ghost.
I get that it's frustrating that true focus counters all miss/evade champs, but there are plenty of characters that don't rely on those mechanics. No one complains that mystic ward prevents you from using all your nullify champs.
How is hitting into the block 159467 times for 30 fights in a row "challenging"? That's a "masochist dream".
This is... part of why I don't do quests like this
I don't understand why everyone is up in arms about nodes like this. People love to complain that "challenging content isn't challenging if you can just quake it", but then when challenging content uses true focus to counter quake/ghost, people complain that they can't use quake/ghost.
I get that it's frustrating that true focus counters all miss/evade champs, but there are plenty of characters that don't rely on those mechanics. No one complains that mystic ward prevents you from using all your nullify champs.
How is hitting into the block 159467 times for 30 fights in a row "challenging"? That's a "masochist dream".
This is... part of why I don't do quests like this
I find them too repetitive.
Why do you need to hit their block? A lot of champions will do more damage by hitting them not through the block. You’re not gonna use Nick fury and exclusively hit them through their block, your bleed does more damage
I mean....the only other alternative I can see is a percentage-based chance to fail. Then people are at the mercy of the RNG.
That would make them useless in my view. Even at 99% chance for quake to fail, it’s too little.
I honestly have no idea how a nerf would be done, but I don’t think that would be it.
A nerf for quake could be by adding some way for the opponent to gain power. Maybe they gain 34% of a bar every time her aftershock activates. That way she could still quake like normal but wouldn't have the complete shutdown she normally has, plus you'd need to break rhythm to bait specials.
For ghost you could maybe allow her to only remove bleed and poison debuffs with phase? Maybe incinerates too.
Ok, bit of a wild thought, and feel free to shoot me down lol, but I just thought what if Quake got an entire overhaul, and Kabam gave her a really amazing kit. I’m thinking some sort of buff that was Diablo level good. Made her a genuinely amazing champion and have her play normally, not like quake does now. Then she’s not so broken, and quake players still have a really amazing champ worth ranking and using.
My reasoning is that the Dr Strange nerf took way too much away from those champions. And left people with a shell of a champion nobody would rank.
And remember this is all along a hypothetical of what if they HAD to be nerfed, not that I would do this no questions asked.
So instead of having nerfing quake to have a 95% chance to evade, or one that has 50% AAR, that we just wouldn’t use, instead of ruining the champion and going way, way too far with a nerf. Go for more of a rebalance, which keeps quake as a useful champion, with a brilliant, useful kit, and one that people would be happy to rank.
...no. Just no. That completely goes against my point of a nerf reducing the number of options for players who haven't done the content we have.
It's impossible to change a champion who has had such a significant impact on the game for FOUR YEARS. You can overhaul a trash champ like Miles, you can nerf a new champ like Namor, but you can't nerf a champ like Quake, people have used her for tons of content already. not to mention you’re suggesting an overhaul. Because there are still people behind who are counting on their Quake and Ghost. Just as I did a few years back.
And what if people enjoy Quake? Well I don't, but there are people who do. Some of the 'Quake gods', for example, by overhauling Quake you're removing a fun aspect of the game from them. I don't think I, you, even Kabam, get to make a decision like that.
If your point is that Quake and Ghost need some sort of suppression, well then design new nodes. True Focus ruins so many champions and makes the two unusable, and a nerf to Quake/Ghost ****s with earlier content and newer players too much. Plus ruining the experience for players who actually enjoy these champs. Y’all are saying that Quake and Ghost are way better than other champions. While it’s true that they are stronger than most other champions, they are not overpowered enough for you to use them in every single piece of content, in every fight, not overpowered enough for you to just rank these two and forget about every other champion in the game. ‘Balanced’ doesn’t have to mean every champ is equal. Every game has outliers and as long as they don’t make the game unfun and unplayable, it’s perfectly fine.
I mean....the only other alternative I can see is a percentage-based chance to fail. Then people are at the mercy of the RNG.
That would make them useless in my view. Even at 99% chance for quake to fail, it’s too little.
I honestly have no idea how a nerf would be done, but I don’t think that would be it.
A nerf for quake could be by adding some way for the opponent to gain power. Maybe they gain 34% of a bar every time her aftershock activates. That way she could still quake like normal but wouldn't have the complete shutdown she normally has, plus you'd need to break rhythm to bait specials.
For ghost you could maybe allow her to only remove bleed and poison debuffs with phase? Maybe incinerates too.
Ok, bit of a wild thought, and feel free to shoot me down lol, but I just thought what if Quake got an entire overhaul, and Kabam gave her a really amazing kit. I’m thinking some sort of buff that was Diablo level good. Made her a genuinely amazing champion and have her play normally, not like quake does now. Then she’s not so broken, and quake players still have a really amazing champ worth ranking and using.
My reasoning is that the Dr Strange nerf took way too much away from those champions. And left people with a shell of a champion nobody would rank.
And remember this is all along a hypothetical of what if they HAD to be nerfed, not that I would do this no questions asked.
So instead of having nerfing quake to have a 95% chance to evade, or one that has 50% AAR, that we just wouldn’t use, instead of ruining the champion and going way, way too far with a nerf. Go for more of a rebalance, which keeps quake as a useful champion, with a brilliant, useful kit, and one that people would be happy to rank.
...no. Just no. That completely goes against my point of a nerf reducing the number of options for players who haven't done the content we have.
It's impossible to change a champion who has had such a significant impact on the game for FOUR YEARS. You can overhaul a trash champ like Miles, you can nerf a new champ like Namor, but you can't nerf a champ like Quake, people have used her for tons of content already. not to mention you’re suggesting an overhaul. Because there are still people behind who are counting on their Quake and Ghost. Just as I did a few years back.
And what if people enjoy Quake? Well I don't, but there are people who do. Some of the 'Quake gods', for example, by overhauling Quake you're removing a fun aspect of the game from them. I don't think I, you, even Kabam, get to make a decision like that.
If your point is that Quake and Ghost need some sort of suppression, well then design new nodes. True Focus ruins so many champions and makes the two unusable, and a nerf to Quake/Ghost ****s with earlier content and newer players too much. Plus ruining the experience for players who actually enjoy these champs. Y’all are saying that Quake and Ghost are way better than other champions. While it’s true that they are stronger than most other champions, they are not overpowered enough for you to use them in every single piece of content, in every fight, not overpowered enough for you to just rank these two and forget about every other champion in the game. ‘Balanced’ doesn’t have to mean every champ is equal. Every game has outliers and as long as they don’t make the game unfun and unplayable, it’s perfectly fine.
So I see you and other bringing up old content as reasons they shouldn't be touched. You realize that Act 6 itself was nerfed drastically compared to what it was like when lots of us finished it (I didn't use Quake for any of it btw). So if your reasoning is valid, it isn't, then you should also be in favor of putting Act 6 back to its original state and making everyone that finished the nerfed version go back and do the original.
Now that's a ridiculous suggestion obviously, but so is yours that champs can't be touched just bc they've been in the game a long time. If content can be adjusted when the devs deem it too difficult, guess what, champs can be adjusted when deemed too powerful as well.
I mean....the only other alternative I can see is a percentage-based chance to fail. Then people are at the mercy of the RNG.
That would make them useless in my view. Even at 99% chance for quake to fail, it’s too little.
I honestly have no idea how a nerf would be done, but I don’t think that would be it.
A nerf for quake could be by adding some way for the opponent to gain power. Maybe they gain 34% of a bar every time her aftershock activates. That way she could still quake like normal but wouldn't have the complete shutdown she normally has, plus you'd need to break rhythm to bait specials.
For ghost you could maybe allow her to only remove bleed and poison debuffs with phase? Maybe incinerates too.
Ok, bit of a wild thought, and feel free to shoot me down lol, but I just thought what if Quake got an entire overhaul, and Kabam gave her a really amazing kit. I’m thinking some sort of buff that was Diablo level good. Made her a genuinely amazing champion and have her play normally, not like quake does now. Then she’s not so broken, and quake players still have a really amazing champ worth ranking and using.
My reasoning is that the Dr Strange nerf took way too much away from those champions. And left people with a shell of a champion nobody would rank.
And remember this is all along a hypothetical of what if they HAD to be nerfed, not that I would do this no questions asked.
So instead of having nerfing quake to have a 95% chance to evade, or one that has 50% AAR, that we just wouldn’t use, instead of ruining the champion and going way, way too far with a nerf. Go for more of a rebalance, which keeps quake as a useful champion, with a brilliant, useful kit, and one that people would be happy to rank.
...no. Just no. That completely goes against my point of a nerf reducing the number of options for players who haven't done the content we have.
It's impossible to change a champion who has had such a significant impact on the game for FOUR YEARS. You can overhaul a trash champ like Miles, you can nerf a new champ like Namor, but you can't nerf a champ like Quake, people have used her for tons of content already. not to mention you’re suggesting an overhaul. Because there are still people behind who are counting on their Quake and Ghost. Just as I did a few years back.
And what if people enjoy Quake? Well I don't, but there are people who do. Some of the 'Quake gods', for example, by overhauling Quake you're removing a fun aspect of the game from them. I don't think I, you, even Kabam, get to make a decision like that.
If your point is that Quake and Ghost need some sort of suppression, well then design new nodes. True Focus ruins so many champions and makes the two unusable, and a nerf to Quake/Ghost ****s with earlier content and newer players too much. Plus ruining the experience for players who actually enjoy these champs. Y’all are saying that Quake and Ghost are way better than other champions. While it’s true that they are stronger than most other champions, they are not overpowered enough for you to use them in every single piece of content, in every fight, not overpowered enough for you to just rank these two and forget about every other champion in the game. ‘Balanced’ doesn’t have to mean every champ is equal. Every game has outliers and as long as they don’t make the game unfun and unplayable, it’s perfectly fine.
So I see you and other bringing up old content as reasons they shouldn't be touched. You realize that Act 6 itself was nerfed drastically compared to what it was like when lots of us finished it (I didn't use Quake for any of it btw). So if your reasoning is valid, it isn't, then you should also be in favor of putting Act 6 back to its original state and making everyone that finished the nerfed version go back and do the original.
Now that's a ridiculous suggestion obviously, but so is yours that champs can't be touched just bc they've been in the game a long time. If content can be adjusted when the devs deem it too difficult, guess what, champs can be adjusted when deemed too powerful as well.
Ok that's not what I meant. Act 6 was an absolute ****show that was basically begging for a nerf back in the day. Not with Quake and Ghost at all.
If your point is that Quake and Ghost need some sort of suppression, well then design new nodes. True Focus ruins so many champions and makes the two unusable, and a nerf to Quake/Ghost ****s with earlier content and newer players too much. Plus ruining the experience for players who actually enjoy these champs. Y’all are saying that Quake and Ghost are way better than other champions. While it’s true that they are stronger than most other champions, they are not overpowered enough for you to use them in every single piece of content, in every fight, not overpowered enough for you to just rank these two and forget about every other champion in the game. ‘Balanced’ doesn’t have to mean every champ is equal. Every game has outliers and as long as they don’t make the game unfun and unplayable, it’s perfectly fine.
I still stand by this point and I think that True Focus/nerf are both just straight up unnecessary.
I mean....the only other alternative I can see is a percentage-based chance to fail. Then people are at the mercy of the RNG.
That would make them useless in my view. Even at 99% chance for quake to fail, it’s too little.
I honestly have no idea how a nerf would be done, but I don’t think that would be it.
A nerf for quake could be by adding some way for the opponent to gain power. Maybe they gain 34% of a bar every time her aftershock activates. That way she could still quake like normal but wouldn't have the complete shutdown she normally has, plus you'd need to break rhythm to bait specials.
For ghost you could maybe allow her to only remove bleed and poison debuffs with phase? Maybe incinerates too.
Ok, bit of a wild thought, and feel free to shoot me down lol, but I just thought what if Quake got an entire overhaul, and Kabam gave her a really amazing kit. I’m thinking some sort of buff that was Diablo level good. Made her a genuinely amazing champion and have her play normally, not like quake does now. Then she’s not so broken, and quake players still have a really amazing champ worth ranking and using.
My reasoning is that the Dr Strange nerf took way too much away from those champions. And left people with a shell of a champion nobody would rank.
And remember this is all along a hypothetical of what if they HAD to be nerfed, not that I would do this no questions asked.
So instead of having nerfing quake to have a 95% chance to evade, or one that has 50% AAR, that we just wouldn’t use, instead of ruining the champion and going way, way too far with a nerf. Go for more of a rebalance, which keeps quake as a useful champion, with a brilliant, useful kit, and one that people would be happy to rank.
...no. Just no. That completely goes against my point of a nerf reducing the number of options for players who haven't done the content we have.
It's impossible to change a champion who has had such a significant impact on the game for FOUR YEARS. You can overhaul a trash champ like Miles, you can nerf a new champ like Namor, but you can't nerf a champ like Quake, people have used her for tons of content already. not to mention you’re suggesting an overhaul. Because there are still people behind who are counting on their Quake and Ghost. Just as I did a few years back.
And what if people enjoy Quake? Well I don't, but there are people who do. Some of the 'Quake gods', for example, by overhauling Quake you're removing a fun aspect of the game from them. I don't think I, you, even Kabam, get to make a decision like that.
If your point is that Quake and Ghost need some sort of suppression, well then design new nodes. True Focus ruins so many champions and makes the two unusable, and a nerf to Quake/Ghost ****s with earlier content and newer players too much. Plus ruining the experience for players who actually enjoy these champs. Y’all are saying that Quake and Ghost are way better than other champions. While it’s true that they are stronger than most other champions, they are not overpowered enough for you to use them in every single piece of content, in every fight, not overpowered enough for you to just rank these two and forget about every other champion in the game. ‘Balanced’ doesn’t have to mean every champ is equal. Every game has outliers and as long as they don’t make the game unfun and unplayable, it’s perfectly fine.
So I see you and other bringing up old content as reasons they shouldn't be touched. You realize that Act 6 itself was nerfed drastically compared to what it was like when lots of us finished it (I didn't use Quake for any of it btw). So if your reasoning is valid, it isn't, then you should also be in favor of putting Act 6 back to its original state and making everyone that finished the nerfed version go back and do the original.
Now that's a ridiculous suggestion obviously, but so is yours that champs can't be touched just bc they've been in the game a long time. If content can be adjusted when the devs deem it too difficult, guess what, champs can be adjusted when deemed too powerful as well.
Ok that's not what I meant. Act 6 was an absolute ****show that was basically begging for a nerf back in the day. Not with Quake and Ghost at all.
If your point is that Quake and Ghost need some sort of suppression, well then design new nodes. True Focus ruins so many champions and makes the two unusable, and a nerf to Quake/Ghost ****s with earlier content and newer players too much. Plus ruining the experience for players who actually enjoy these champs. Y’all are saying that Quake and Ghost are way better than other champions. While it’s true that they are stronger than most other champions, they are not overpowered enough for you to use them in every single piece of content, in every fight, not overpowered enough for you to just rank these two and forget about every other champion in the game. ‘Balanced’ doesn’t have to mean every champ is equal. Every game has outliers and as long as they don’t make the game unfun and unplayable, it’s perfectly fine.
I still stand by this point and I think that True Focus/nerf are both just straight up unnecessary.
So you want content to continue to be easier and easier and continue to have brokenly OP champs that ignore the vast majority of the game? That seems like healthy and smart long term game design.
I mean....the only other alternative I can see is a percentage-based chance to fail. Then people are at the mercy of the RNG.
That would make them useless in my view. Even at 99% chance for quake to fail, it’s too little.
I honestly have no idea how a nerf would be done, but I don’t think that would be it.
A nerf for quake could be by adding some way for the opponent to gain power. Maybe they gain 34% of a bar every time her aftershock activates. That way she could still quake like normal but wouldn't have the complete shutdown she normally has, plus you'd need to break rhythm to bait specials.
For ghost you could maybe allow her to only remove bleed and poison debuffs with phase? Maybe incinerates too.
Ok, bit of a wild thought, and feel free to shoot me down lol, but I just thought what if Quake got an entire overhaul, and Kabam gave her a really amazing kit. I’m thinking some sort of buff that was Diablo level good. Made her a genuinely amazing champion and have her play normally, not like quake does now. Then she’s not so broken, and quake players still have a really amazing champ worth ranking and using.
My reasoning is that the Dr Strange nerf took way too much away from those champions. And left people with a shell of a champion nobody would rank.
And remember this is all along a hypothetical of what if they HAD to be nerfed, not that I would do this no questions asked.
So instead of having nerfing quake to have a 95% chance to evade, or one that has 50% AAR, that we just wouldn’t use, instead of ruining the champion and going way, way too far with a nerf. Go for more of a rebalance, which keeps quake as a useful champion, with a brilliant, useful kit, and one that people would be happy to rank.
...no. Just no. That completely goes against my point of a nerf reducing the number of options for players who haven't done the content we have.
It's impossible to change a champion who has had such a significant impact on the game for FOUR YEARS. You can overhaul a trash champ like Miles, you can nerf a new champ like Namor, but you can't nerf a champ like Quake, people have used her for tons of content already. not to mention you’re suggesting an overhaul. Because there are still people behind who are counting on their Quake and Ghost. Just as I did a few years back.
And what if people enjoy Quake? Well I don't, but there are people who do. Some of the 'Quake gods', for example, by overhauling Quake you're removing a fun aspect of the game from them. I don't think I, you, even Kabam, get to make a decision like that.
If your point is that Quake and Ghost need some sort of suppression, well then design new nodes. True Focus ruins so many champions and makes the two unusable, and a nerf to Quake/Ghost ****s with earlier content and newer players too much. Plus ruining the experience for players who actually enjoy these champs. Y’all are saying that Quake and Ghost are way better than other champions. While it’s true that they are stronger than most other champions, they are not overpowered enough for you to use them in every single piece of content, in every fight, not overpowered enough for you to just rank these two and forget about every other champion in the game. ‘Balanced’ doesn’t have to mean every champ is equal. Every game has outliers and as long as they don’t make the game unfun and unplayable, it’s perfectly fine.
So I see you and other bringing up old content as reasons they shouldn't be touched. You realize that Act 6 itself was nerfed drastically compared to what it was like when lots of us finished it (I didn't use Quake for any of it btw). So if your reasoning is valid, it isn't, then you should also be in favor of putting Act 6 back to its original state and making everyone that finished the nerfed version go back and do the original.
Now that's a ridiculous suggestion obviously, but so is yours that champs can't be touched just bc they've been in the game a long time. If content can be adjusted when the devs deem it too difficult, guess what, champs can be adjusted when deemed too powerful as well.
Ok that's not what I meant. Act 6 was an absolute ****show that was basically begging for a nerf back in the day. Not with Quake and Ghost at all.
If your point is that Quake and Ghost need some sort of suppression, well then design new nodes. True Focus ruins so many champions and makes the two unusable, and a nerf to Quake/Ghost ****s with earlier content and newer players too much. Plus ruining the experience for players who actually enjoy these champs. Y’all are saying that Quake and Ghost are way better than other champions. While it’s true that they are stronger than most other champions, they are not overpowered enough for you to use them in every single piece of content, in every fight, not overpowered enough for you to just rank these two and forget about every other champion in the game. ‘Balanced’ doesn’t have to mean every champ is equal. Every game has outliers and as long as they don’t make the game unfun and unplayable, it’s perfectly fine.
I still stand by this point and I think that True Focus/nerf are both just straight up unnecessary.
So you want content to continue to be easier and easier and continue to have brokenly OP champs that ignore the vast majority of the game? That seems like healthy and smart long term game design.
Ye doin' nothing to rebut my point that they are not overpowered enough to get a nerf in the current state of the game. Sure they are definitely outliers, but outliers != overpowered. Overpowered means making other champs literally unplayable, and no one uses Ghost and Quake only. It's in the previous post ye quoted and I don't think I need to repeat that.
Ghost and Quake have existed for 3 years, used for Acts 5 to 7, used for Gauntlet, used for other side quests, and as of now the game is still intact. I don't see why ye would say 'nerf Quake and Ghost' after all this time.
If Kabam really needs to restrict them for some fights that are designed to be experienced with other champs, then make a specific node against them. Only for the nodes where Ghost and Quake would really ruin the player experience and I don't think that applies to the Shang-Chi quest or some SoP fights and it's just a bit redundant there. AW boss node I'd agree Quake and Ghost need to be limited but don't bring other Evade/Miss champs down with it as well.
It is stupid that this node affects so many champs, who even aren't so OP (such as Prof X, Stryfe or Ebony Maw) like Ghost and Quake.
I like a solutions someone proposed: give Quake&Ghost a unique #op tag and restrict True Focus only to holders of this tag.
Also I feel like True Focus is a being bit overreacted to. Where has it been so far? SoP, Shang-Chi challenge, top tier AW. Yet there are people who go around saying "True focus now everywhere". Yet there's still Act 6, AoL, Act 7 and Variants without it. It is in TEMPORARY content only. All permanent stuff is free of this node. It is unpleasant but not as everpresent as some people put it.
It's not in permanent content because no new permanent content has been released since it dropped. It's been in every piece of temporary content since its been introduced. I would like to know if I should steer clear of all the miss/ evade champs because kabam is going to slap this node in every piece of content moving forward.
I know, still people say "It is in all difficult content. It isn't. It is in temporary stuff. I doubt majority of those who complain have Breaker of Thrones and Abyss exploration.
And I dislike the node as much as you do. I don't have Ghost and refuse to play Quake, but I love my Prof X, Stryfe, Spider-ham and Ebony Maw. These are heavily affected by this node too and their use is much restricted. I am all in for a change of the node. I just think the hystery around this node is an exaggeration. These champs can still be used in vast majority of both permanent and temporary content.
No permanent content has been released yet since the introduction of true focus.
We will have to wait and see for act 7.3 whether it’s there, but honestly I don’t think that covers it easier
I mean....the only other alternative I can see is a percentage-based chance to fail. Then people are at the mercy of the RNG.
That would make them useless in my view. Even at 99% chance for quake to fail, it’s too little.
I honestly have no idea how a nerf would be done, but I don’t think that would be it.
A nerf for quake could be by adding some way for the opponent to gain power. Maybe they gain 34% of a bar every time her aftershock activates. That way she could still quake like normal but wouldn't have the complete shutdown she normally has, plus you'd need to break rhythm to bait specials.
For ghost you could maybe allow her to only remove bleed and poison debuffs with phase? Maybe incinerates too.
Ok, bit of a wild thought, and feel free to shoot me down lol, but I just thought what if Quake got an entire overhaul, and Kabam gave her a really amazing kit. I’m thinking some sort of buff that was Diablo level good. Made her a genuinely amazing champion and have her play normally, not like quake does now. Then she’s not so broken, and quake players still have a really amazing champ worth ranking and using.
My reasoning is that the Dr Strange nerf took way too much away from those champions. And left people with a shell of a champion nobody would rank.
And remember this is all along a hypothetical of what if they HAD to be nerfed, not that I would do this no questions asked.
So instead of having nerfing quake to have a 95% chance to evade, or one that has 50% AAR, that we just wouldn’t use, instead of ruining the champion and going way, way too far with a nerf. Go for more of a rebalance, which keeps quake as a useful champion, with a brilliant, useful kit, and one that people would be happy to rank.
Wait that's actually such a good idea. I'd be all down for both G&Q to receive that treatment. Provided they give ghost a very valuable Sig level so as not to screw over those who have dumped Sig stones into her. But yeah, absolutely fantastic idea @BitterSteel 👏
Thank you! I think it’s probably the lesser of the evils if they absolutely needed a nerf. May as well take advantage of the Buff Program Kabam have created!
Plus, I’d finally get to use Quake’s SP3 occasionally. Seriously, has anyone ever actually seen it?
I can't think of what it looks like lol. This is actually something that always surprises me. I wonder how many SP3s I've never seen.
Kabam just needs to nerf ghost and quake already either through specialized nodes or straight up nerfs. Im tired if this true focus bs affecting a whole list of champions I ranked up. If they are actually nerfing them, it should be cull-like nerfs... maybe rework quake to limit the times she can evade per aftershock and keep her aar, make her specials useful and possibly deal good damage; and w/ ghost just reduce her damage by like half... she'd still hit hard. Here's the list of non ghost and quake champions affected by this lazily thought out node:
Elsa Bloodstone Professor X Spider-Ham Tigra Miles Morales Spidergwen Stark Enhanced Spider Man Ebony Maw Stryfe Kitty Pride (kind of) Silver Surfer DDHK w/synergy Masacre Guilly 2099 (survivability) Vulture Mister Negative Ronin Hitmonkey (survivabiliry) Stealthy (survivability) (Not a champ) Entire Quake/Fury synergy
It is stupid that this node affects so many champs, who even aren't so OP (such as Prof X, Stryfe or Ebony Maw) like Ghost and Quake.
I like a solutions someone proposed: give Quake&Ghost a unique #op tag and restrict True Focus only to holders of this tag.
Also I feel like True Focus is a being bit overreacted to. Where has it been so far? SoP, Shang-Chi challenge, top tier AW. Yet there are people who go around saying "True focus now everywhere". Yet there's still Act 6, AoL, Act 7 and Variants without it. It is in TEMPORARY content only. All permanent stuff is free of this node. It is unpleasant but not as everpresent as some people put it.
It's not in permanent content because no new permanent content has been released since it dropped. It's been in every piece of temporary content since its been introduced. I would like to know if I should steer clear of all the miss/ evade champs because kabam is going to slap this node in every piece of content moving forward.
I know, still people say "It is in all difficult content. It isn't. It is in temporary stuff. I doubt majority of those who complain have Breaker of Thrones and Abyss exploration.
And I dislike the node as much as you do. I don't have Ghost and refuse to play Quake, but I love my Prof X, Stryfe, Spider-ham and Ebony Maw. These are heavily affected by this node too and their use is much restricted. I am all in for a change of the node. I just think the hystery around this node is an exaggeration. These champs can still be used in vast majority of both permanent and temporary content.
No permanent content has been released yet since the introduction of true focus.
We will have to wait and see for act 7.3 whether it’s there, but honestly I don’t think that covers it easier
I mean....the only other alternative I can see is a percentage-based chance to fail. Then people are at the mercy of the RNG.
That would make them useless in my view. Even at 99% chance for quake to fail, it’s too little.
I honestly have no idea how a nerf would be done, but I don’t think that would be it.
A nerf for quake could be by adding some way for the opponent to gain power. Maybe they gain 34% of a bar every time her aftershock activates. That way she could still quake like normal but wouldn't have the complete shutdown she normally has, plus you'd need to break rhythm to bait specials.
For ghost you could maybe allow her to only remove bleed and poison debuffs with phase? Maybe incinerates too.
Ok, bit of a wild thought, and feel free to shoot me down lol, but I just thought what if Quake got an entire overhaul, and Kabam gave her a really amazing kit. I’m thinking some sort of buff that was Diablo level good. Made her a genuinely amazing champion and have her play normally, not like quake does now. Then she’s not so broken, and quake players still have a really amazing champ worth ranking and using.
My reasoning is that the Dr Strange nerf took way too much away from those champions. And left people with a shell of a champion nobody would rank.
And remember this is all along a hypothetical of what if they HAD to be nerfed, not that I would do this no questions asked.
So instead of having nerfing quake to have a 95% chance to evade, or one that has 50% AAR, that we just wouldn’t use, instead of ruining the champion and going way, way too far with a nerf. Go for more of a rebalance, which keeps quake as a useful champion, with a brilliant, useful kit, and one that people would be happy to rank.
Wait that's actually such a good idea. I'd be all down for both G&Q to receive that treatment. Provided they give ghost a very valuable Sig level so as not to screw over those who have dumped Sig stones into her. But yeah, absolutely fantastic idea @BitterSteel 👏
Thank you! I think it’s probably the lesser of the evils if they absolutely needed a nerf. May as well take advantage of the Buff Program Kabam have created!
Plus, I’d finally get to use Quake’s SP3 occasionally. Seriously, has anyone ever actually seen it?
I can't think of what it looks like lol. This is actually something that always surprises me. I wonder how many SP3s I've never seen.
IIRC she quakes and some rubble falls on the opponent, then she quakes them again sending them flying
It's kind of cool... just a pity her optimal gameplay will not let you see it unless for whatever reason they ever made a node where charging heavy gives you Power Gain like Air-Walker
Just saying... the 12.0 update was the best thing to ever happen to the game by far. Or else this game wouldve been dead by now. Nerfs can be a good thing if handled wel
I mean....the only other alternative I can see is a percentage-based chance to fail. Then people are at the mercy of the RNG.
That would make them useless in my view. Even at 99% chance for quake to fail, it’s too little.
I honestly have no idea how a nerf would be done, but I don’t think that would be it.
A nerf for quake could be by adding some way for the opponent to gain power. Maybe they gain 34% of a bar every time her aftershock activates. That way she could still quake like normal but wouldn't have the complete shutdown she normally has, plus you'd need to break rhythm to bait specials.
For ghost you could maybe allow her to only remove bleed and poison debuffs with phase? Maybe incinerates too.
Ok, bit of a wild thought, and feel free to shoot me down lol, but I just thought what if Quake got an entire overhaul, and Kabam gave her a really amazing kit. I’m thinking some sort of buff that was Diablo level good. Made her a genuinely amazing champion and have her play normally, not like quake does now. Then she’s not so broken, and quake players still have a really amazing champ worth ranking and using.
My reasoning is that the Dr Strange nerf took way too much away from those champions. And left people with a shell of a champion nobody would rank.
And remember this is all along a hypothetical of what if they HAD to be nerfed, not that I would do this no questions asked.
So instead of having nerfing quake to have a 95% chance to evade, or one that has 50% AAR, that we just wouldn’t use, instead of ruining the champion and going way, way too far with a nerf. Go for more of a rebalance, which keeps quake as a useful champion, with a brilliant, useful kit, and one that people would be happy to rank.
I like the idea in principle but I'm worried about the application. We were told that the Dr. Strange nerf, for example, would leave him as a top champ in the game, albeit closer to the pack. He's been irrelevant since the nerf and they have felt no obligation to make good on the promise.
At this point I fully support nerfing the hell out of Ghost and Quake
I hate that I partially agree with you, but true focus is that bad for the game.
My order of preference if Kabam are that desperate to keep a leash on ghost and quake:
1. True focus gone, have a ghost specific and quake specific node 2. Nerf ghost and quake 3. Keep true focus
When True Focus first came out, I suggested to Kabam on the thread that they just give Ghost and Quake a special tag and then have a node that gives champs with those tags -100% ability accuracy. They didn’t listen obviously. True Focus pisses me off because it neuters so many other champs that I like to play that aren’t anywhere near as powerful as Ghost and Quake (ie Miles, Tigra). Also, I have a 6r3 Ghost that I awakened with the class gem from abyss and pumped in 120+ sig stones into her. At this point, I’d be more than happy if they nerf Ghost and give me my resources back like how they did with Namor. As for Quake, I hate Quake and literally couldn’t care less about what happens with her.
agree, ranked ghost to r3 not time ago and was debating to do this for more than half year. And exactly when I r3 they brought true focus. I vote for nerf and compensation
I don't understand why everyone is up in arms about nodes like this. People love to complain that "challenging content isn't challenging if you can just quake it", but then when challenging content uses true focus to counter quake/ghost, people complain that they can't use quake/ghost.
I get that it's frustrating that true focus counters all miss/evade champs, but there are plenty of characters that don't rely on those mechanics. No one complains that mystic ward prevents you from using all your nullify champs.
How is hitting into the block 159467 times for 30 fights in a row "challenging"? That's a "masochist dream".
This is... part of why I don't do quests like this
I find them too repetitive.
Why do you need to hit their block? A lot of champions will do more damage by hitting them not through the block. You’re not gonna use Nick fury and exclusively hit them through their block, your bleed does more damage
I mean....the only other alternative I can see is a percentage-based chance to fail. Then people are at the mercy of the RNG.
That would make them useless in my view. Even at 99% chance for quake to fail, it’s too little.
I honestly have no idea how a nerf would be done, but I don’t think that would be it.
A nerf for quake could be by adding some way for the opponent to gain power. Maybe they gain 34% of a bar every time her aftershock activates. That way she could still quake like normal but wouldn't have the complete shutdown she normally has, plus you'd need to break rhythm to bait specials.
For ghost you could maybe allow her to only remove bleed and poison debuffs with phase? Maybe incinerates too.
Ok, bit of a wild thought, and feel free to shoot me down lol, but I just thought what if Quake got an entire overhaul, and Kabam gave her a really amazing kit. I’m thinking some sort of buff that was Diablo level good. Made her a genuinely amazing champion and have her play normally, not like quake does now. Then she’s not so broken, and quake players still have a really amazing champ worth ranking and using.
My reasoning is that the Dr Strange nerf took way too much away from those champions. And left people with a shell of a champion nobody would rank.
And remember this is all along a hypothetical of what if they HAD to be nerfed, not that I would do this no questions asked.
So instead of having nerfing quake to have a 95% chance to evade, or one that has 50% AAR, that we just wouldn’t use, instead of ruining the champion and going way, way too far with a nerf. Go for more of a rebalance, which keeps quake as a useful champion, with a brilliant, useful kit, and one that people would be happy to rank.
since you're talking nonsense, i think you'd better stop at what you are heading for…..
because of some being selfish
These sort of things is why I’m going to stop replying to you. You clearly don’t respect an opinion you disagree with, so I see no reason to continue speaking with you. I disagree with your opinion, and yet I’ve given no personal attacks.
I mean....the only other alternative I can see is a percentage-based chance to fail. Then people are at the mercy of the RNG.
That would make them useless in my view. Even at 99% chance for quake to fail, it’s too little.
I honestly have no idea how a nerf would be done, but I don’t think that would be it.
A nerf for quake could be by adding some way for the opponent to gain power. Maybe they gain 34% of a bar every time her aftershock activates. That way she could still quake like normal but wouldn't have the complete shutdown she normally has, plus you'd need to break rhythm to bait specials.
For ghost you could maybe allow her to only remove bleed and poison debuffs with phase? Maybe incinerates too.
Ok, bit of a wild thought, and feel free to shoot me down lol, but I just thought what if Quake got an entire overhaul, and Kabam gave her a really amazing kit. I’m thinking some sort of buff that was Diablo level good. Made her a genuinely amazing champion and have her play normally, not like quake does now. Then she’s not so broken, and quake players still have a really amazing champ worth ranking and using.
My reasoning is that the Dr Strange nerf took way too much away from those champions. And left people with a shell of a champion nobody would rank.
And remember this is all along a hypothetical of what if they HAD to be nerfed, not that I would do this no questions asked.
So instead of having nerfing quake to have a 95% chance to evade, or one that has 50% AAR, that we just wouldn’t use, instead of ruining the champion and going way, way too far with a nerf. Go for more of a rebalance, which keeps quake as a useful champion, with a brilliant, useful kit, and one that people would be happy to rank.
It's impossible to change a champion who has had such a significant impact on the game for FOUR YEARS.
While it’s true that they are stronger than most other champions, they are not overpowered enough for you to use them in every single piece of content, in every fight, not overpowered enough for you to just rank these two and forget about every other champion in the game. ‘Balanced’ doesn’t have to mean every champ is equal.
Every game has outliers and as long as they don’t make the game unfun and unplayable, it’s perfectly fine.
First off, you’re absolutely ignoring the points I make and I’m starting to think you’re not reading my post. “this is all along a hypothetical of what if they HAD to be nerfed, not that I would do this no questions asked”. So when I say, ok, let’s say Kabam said they were nerfing quake, how about this for an idea? And you say “nO KabAm ShOuLDnT NerF” you’re absolutely ignoring my point.
“It's impossible to change a champion who has had such a significant impact on the game for FOUR YEARS.” I’m sure 12.0 would love to disagree with you. I’m afraid you don’t get to decide what’s impossible for game decisions in a game you don’t run.
The game is being made unfun by quake and ghost. True focus is here, that is not fun. And until otherwise is proved, it’s here to stay based on 0 comments made about it by kabam, and by Kitty Pryde’s introduction. I’d be incredibly surprised if it was backtracked now.
I’ll ask you one more question, along the assumption that true focus isn’t changed, and that Kabam do not want quake and ghost to rule the contest as much as they do, how would you solve the problem?
To clarify, please stick to those assumptions, i know what you would do if you could change those assumptions so no need to say “get rid of true focus”. Assuming Kabam want to stop ghost and quake, and won’t change true focus, what’s the solution?
I mean....the only other alternative I can see is a percentage-based chance to fail. Then people are at the mercy of the RNG.
That would make them useless in my view. Even at 99% chance for quake to fail, it’s too little.
I honestly have no idea how a nerf would be done, but I don’t think that would be it.
A nerf for quake could be by adding some way for the opponent to gain power. Maybe they gain 34% of a bar every time her aftershock activates. That way she could still quake like normal but wouldn't have the complete shutdown she normally has, plus you'd need to break rhythm to bait specials.
For ghost you could maybe allow her to only remove bleed and poison debuffs with phase? Maybe incinerates too.
Ok, bit of a wild thought, and feel free to shoot me down lol, but I just thought what if Quake got an entire overhaul, and Kabam gave her a really amazing kit. I’m thinking some sort of buff that was Diablo level good. Made her a genuinely amazing champion and have her play normally, not like quake does now. Then she’s not so broken, and quake players still have a really amazing champ worth ranking and using.
My reasoning is that the Dr Strange nerf took way too much away from those champions. And left people with a shell of a champion nobody would rank.
And remember this is all along a hypothetical of what if they HAD to be nerfed, not that I would do this no questions asked.
So instead of having nerfing quake to have a 95% chance to evade, or one that has 50% AAR, that we just wouldn’t use, instead of ruining the champion and going way, way too far with a nerf. Go for more of a rebalance, which keeps quake as a useful champion, with a brilliant, useful kit, and one that people would be happy to rank.
...no. Just no. That completely goes against my point of a nerf reducing the number of options for players who haven't done the content we have.
It's impossible to change a champion who has had such a significant impact on the game for FOUR YEARS. You can overhaul a trash champ like Miles, you can nerf a new champ like Namor, but you can't nerf a champ like Quake, people have used her for tons of content already. not to mention you’re suggesting an overhaul. Because there are still people behind who are counting on their Quake and Ghost. Just as I did a few years back.
And what if people enjoy Quake? Well I don't, but there are people who do. Some of the 'Quake gods', for example, by overhauling Quake you're removing a fun aspect of the game from them. I don't think I, you, even Kabam, get to make a decision like that.
If your point is that Quake and Ghost need some sort of suppression, well then design new nodes. True Focus ruins so many champions and makes the two unusable, and a nerf to Quake/Ghost ****s with earlier content and newer players too much. Plus ruining the experience for players who actually enjoy these champs. Y’all are saying that Quake and Ghost are way better than other champions. While it’s true that they are stronger than most other champions, they are not overpowered enough for you to use them in every single piece of content, in every fight, not overpowered enough for you to just rank these two and forget about every other champion in the game. ‘Balanced’ doesn’t have to mean every champ is equal. Every game has outliers and as long as they don’t make the game unfun and unplayable, it’s perfectly fine.
So I see you and other bringing up old content as reasons they shouldn't be touched. You realize that Act 6 itself was nerfed drastically compared to what it was like when lots of us finished it (I didn't use Quake for any of it btw). So if your reasoning is valid, it isn't, then you should also be in favor of putting Act 6 back to its original state and making everyone that finished the nerfed version go back and do the original.
Now that's a ridiculous suggestion obviously, but so is yours that champs can't be touched just bc they've been in the game a long time. If content can be adjusted when the devs deem it too difficult, guess what, champs can be adjusted when deemed too powerful as well.
Ok that's not what I meant. Act 6 was an absolute ****show that was basically begging for a nerf back in the day. Not with Quake and Ghost at all.
If your point is that Quake and Ghost need some sort of suppression, well then design new nodes. True Focus ruins so many champions and makes the two unusable, and a nerf to Quake/Ghost ****s with earlier content and newer players too much. Plus ruining the experience for players who actually enjoy these champs. Y’all are saying that Quake and Ghost are way better than other champions. While it’s true that they are stronger than most other champions, they are not overpowered enough for you to use them in every single piece of content, in every fight, not overpowered enough for you to just rank these two and forget about every other champion in the game. ‘Balanced’ doesn’t have to mean every champ is equal. Every game has outliers and as long as they don’t make the game unfun and unplayable, it’s perfectly fine.
I still stand by this point and I think that True Focus/nerf are both just straight up unnecessary.
So you want content to continue to be easier and easier and continue to have brokenly OP champs that ignore the vast majority of the game? That seems like healthy and smart long term game design.
Overpowered means making other champs literally unplayable,
No it doesn’t my guy
The guy who knows the power of quake enough to bring a 4* into gauntlet is saying she’s balanced lol
Comments
And I dislike the node as much as you do. I don't have Ghost and refuse to play Quake, but I love my Prof X, Stryfe, Spider-ham and Ebony Maw. These are heavily affected by this node too and their use is much restricted. I am all in for a change of the node. I just think the hystery around this node is an exaggeration. These champs can still be used in vast majority of both permanent and temporary content.
We will have to wait and see for act 7.3 whether it’s there, but honestly I don’t think that counts tbh. Act 7 isn’t the direction Kabam want to go with hard content as they’ve said.
The real test is temporary hard content, when permanent hard content is released, and what happens with hard content like AW. So far, 2/3 have had true focus, and the last one hasn’t been released. It’s not looking good.
Also I have really mixed feelings about AW, I kinda feel like it shouldn't be there, because top tier AW is hard enough without it.
I feel like Kabam has been trying to make temporary hard content Ghost&Quake-proof for some time before, but I may be wrong. I know this content holds very nice rewards and it is the focus of majority of endgame players rn. I only wanted to ppint out, that people who are one the verge of starting a RDT petition are a bit overreacting. There is still temporary content where these champs can be used without regulation and (as we both said), 7.3 is probably gonna be no exception.
TL;DR Quake and Ghost are still incredibly valuable champs to rankup and learn. They have lost a minor fraction pf their value but they aren't useless as some imply.
We will have to wait and see for act 7.3 whether it’s there, but honestly I don’t think that covers it easier Thank you! I think it’s probably the lesser of the evils if they absolutely needed a nerf. May as well take advantage of the Buff Program Kabam have created!
Plus, I’d finally get to use Quake’s SP3 occasionally. Seriously, has anyone ever actually seen it?
Yes, I used her for the lifecycle sasquatch in the grandmaster's gauntlet.
However, two things I feel have kind of been over exaggerated in this thread. First, this node has waaaaay more impact on evaders (read quake) than miss. I used my ghost a lot in sop. Her playstyle changes but all the rest of what makes her amazing still exists. Agreed, the altering of her preferred play style is annoying but I mean you'd think she was worthless and that's just not true. She can still be amazing playing intercept style.... just without a safety net.
Second, it's not like this came out of left field. People have been saying the time was coming when quake and ghost would be neutered. Someone mentioned quakes been around for 3 years.... that's a long time at the top. Expecting these chemistry to remain at the top forever is unrealistic.
Now, I fully agree a sledge hammer was used to swat a fly here. A more precise tool. To cut just q + g off would have been preferred but they chose not to do it. I think it sucks, but this is the ever evolving door. How else can they drum up interest in new champs. KP has to serve a purpose and now she does. I expect future champs will continue to fill a role....else why would any of us chase them?
It’s honestly really surprising to hear someone say “quake isn’t broken” and then go onto say “I brought a 4* along with me into gauntlet”. I really hope you see how at odds those two statements are. Can’t think of many other champs you’d take as a 4*…
I think you’re overestimating how “stressful” quake is to play. She’s easy to play, she’s hard to learn. Again, so what if you’re sacrificing damage, you yourself have explained it’s worth it to bring even a 4* to gauntlet. She’s that good.
Shang chi challenge isn’t designed around Corvus or Aegon at all, Kabam didn’t design it specifically to give them advantages, they just happen to be the best options. Not to mention they’re not the only options. And you can bet your bottom dollar if true focus wasn’t there (which has been designed for Q and G) then those two would be walking all over it.
I’m not sure if you saw my idea on how to deal with a quake “nerf”. Let me know if you didn’t and I’ll link the comment from this thread
I find them too repetitive.
It's impossible to change a champion who has had such a significant impact on the game for FOUR YEARS. You can overhaul a trash champ like Miles, you can nerf a new champ like Namor, but you can't nerf a champ like Quake, people have used her for tons of content already. not to mention you’re suggesting an overhaul. Because there are still people behind who are counting on their Quake and Ghost. Just as I did a few years back.
And what if people enjoy Quake? Well I don't, but there are people who do. Some of the 'Quake gods', for example, by overhauling Quake you're removing a fun aspect of the game from them. I don't think I, you, even Kabam, get to make a decision like that.
If your point is that Quake and Ghost need some sort of suppression, well then design new nodes. True Focus ruins so many champions and makes the two unusable, and a nerf to Quake/Ghost ****s with earlier content and newer players too much. Plus ruining the experience for players who actually enjoy these champs. Y’all are saying that Quake and Ghost are way better than other champions. While it’s true that they are stronger than most other champions, they are not overpowered enough for you to use them in every single piece of content, in every fight, not overpowered enough for you to just rank these two and forget about every other champion in the game. ‘Balanced’ doesn’t have to mean every champ is equal. Every game has outliers and as long as they don’t make the game unfun and unplayable, it’s perfectly fine.
Now that's a ridiculous suggestion obviously, but so is yours that champs can't be touched just bc they've been in the game a long time. If content can be adjusted when the devs deem it too difficult, guess what, champs can be adjusted when deemed too powerful as well.
Ghost and Quake have existed for 3 years, used for Acts 5 to 7, used for Gauntlet, used for other side quests, and as of now the game is still intact. I don't see why ye would say 'nerf Quake and Ghost' after all this time.
If Kabam really needs to restrict them for some fights that are designed to be experienced with other champs, then make a specific node against them. Only for the nodes where Ghost and Quake would really ruin the player experience and I don't think that applies to the Shang-Chi quest or some SoP fights and it's just a bit redundant there. AW boss node I'd agree Quake and Ghost need to be limited but don't bring other Evade/Miss champs down with it as well.
Elsa Bloodstone
Professor X
Spider-Ham
Tigra
Miles Morales
Spidergwen
Stark Enhanced Spider Man
Ebony Maw
Stryfe
Kitty Pride (kind of)
Silver Surfer
DDHK w/synergy
Masacre
Guilly 2099 (survivability)
Vulture
Mister Negative
Ronin
Hitmonkey (survivabiliry)
Stealthy (survivability)
(Not a champ) Entire Quake/Fury synergy
It's kind of cool... just a pity her optimal gameplay will not let you see it unless for whatever reason they ever made a node where charging heavy gives you Power Gain like Air-Walker
“It's impossible to change a champion who has had such a significant impact on the game for FOUR YEARS.” I’m sure 12.0 would love to disagree with you. I’m afraid you don’t get to decide what’s impossible for game decisions in a game you don’t run.
The game is being made unfun by quake and ghost. True focus is here, that is not fun. And until otherwise is proved, it’s here to stay based on 0 comments made about it by kabam, and by Kitty Pryde’s introduction. I’d be incredibly surprised if it was backtracked now.
I’ll ask you one more question, along the assumption that true focus isn’t changed, and that Kabam do not want quake and ghost to rule the contest as much as they do, how would you solve the problem?
To clarify, please stick to those assumptions, i know what you would do if you could change those assumptions so no need to say “get rid of true focus”. Assuming Kabam want to stop ghost and quake, and won’t change true focus, what’s the solution?
The guy who knows the power of quake enough to bring a 4* into gauntlet is saying she’s balanced lol