Regarding Brian Grant’s Most Recent Video

laserjohn26

Colinwhitworth69 said:

Make level 40 or something the requirement for gifting.

That is clearly the best solution. I think level 40 is too low. Maybe 55. If you are so new to the game you are a low level you have no business getting the content from GGC. Clearly the number of people who disagree with your post means it is a good idea. People are mad they wouldn't be able to abuse it.

BitterSteel

DNA3000 said:

firemoon712 said:

Ok so hear is my take on it.
As long as they are doing it legit without bots, that's on them.
Time is money, and if players are willing to take time out of their day to do it, that's their decision.
Plus, the beginner xp boost is gone, making it harder to level up without doing harder content.
Before, you had to get about halfway in Act 2 before unlocking the gifting badge.
And, Kabam added the tons and tons of units to the beginning acts while heavily cutting down the story.
I'm surprised they didn't think about this ahead of time.

If they really want to do something about this, there's four solutions:

1. Only Uncollected or higher can gift one another
2. Level limit from 25 to 45.
3. You cannot gift if your account is made December 1st or later.
4. Actually crack down on bots including the arena bots

There is another possibility which occurred to me after thinking about the thread further, but as I've discussed this off the forums with other players I'll acknowledge this is not a unique or original idea: I'm basically stealing it from my old timey MMO experience, and other players have come up with similar ideas in these discussions.

For context: Kabam wants to give new players a boost as part of their low game revamp. This has unfortunately included a boost to units they can earn in the early Acts, which is a good thing when used by new players to help them progress but can be exploited in things like the gifting event. We don't want to penalize new players, but we do want to minimize the disruption these resources can cause when wielded by people other than new players picking up the game.

The solution is to create a new currency, which I will call Credits just because I can't think of a better name at the moment. This currency would behave like units in all respects except one: in any situation where units can buy things that can be gifted, donated, exchanged, or otherwise convert to resources usable by another player, Credits will not work in place of normal units.

With two currencies, Kabam can now freely give away any amount of "units" they want without hurting the wider game economy. Such unit awards would only be useful to the player who gets them. The big unit rewards in the early Acts could be converted to Credits, where they would help new players but be impossible to use in things like the gifting event. You could even go farther and have new players that have only been playing for a short period of time earn Credits instead of Units from things like the Calendar, so that people cannot use alt accounts to harvest that stuff, but actual players playing the accounts can still use them for everything else.

As far as I can tell, this is the most reasonable compromise possible. It preserves the benefits of early units for players actually playing those accounts, but eliminates the ability for those resources to be funneled into other accounts.

This is the best option I've read so far. This way, there is 0 change to the gifting event's structure, it doesn't pose any level restrictions, gifting restrictions or otherwise affect the event.

There could even be a similar amount of units as before the changes, so that players who used to grind alts for gifting at a reasonable rate could continue to do that. The additional units added by the update to act 1-3 could be made up of these credits, meaning the situation is exactly as it was before the update. Then anyone complaining, would just be complaining that they couldn't get more stuff.

xNig

I think an alternative solution will be to create different tiers of GGCs, that contain different items.

So a GGC gifted from a Cav account will contain items that benefit mainly Cavs (eg 5* shards, smaller T5b amounts, T2A etc 5* roster progression items).

TB GGCs will contain larger T5b portions, T6b, T3A, 6* shards etc items that focus on 6* roster progression.

So even using such farming methods, because the account will at most be Conquerer, the items gifted out will be mostly useless to main accounts that are Cav and above, ie indirectly curbing the exploit.

BitterSteel

xNig said:

I think an alternative solution will be to create different tiers of GGCs, that contain different items.

So a GGC gifted from a Cav account will contain items that benefit mainly Cavs (eg 5* shards, smaller T5b amounts, T2A etc 5* roster progression items).

TB GGCs will contain larger T5b portions, T6b, T3A, 6* shards etc items that focus on 6* roster progression.

So even using such farming methods, because the account will at most be Conquerer, the items gifted out will be mostly useless to main accounts that are Cav and above, ie indirectly curbing the exploit.

What about revives and refills etc? I know your suggestion would cover a lot of the problem, by stopping the GGC exploit, but it doesn’t solve all.

DNA3000

laserjohn26 said:

Colinwhitworth69 said:

Make level 40 or something the requirement for gifting.

That is clearly the best solution. I think level 40 is too low. Maybe 55. If you are so new to the game you are a low level you have no business getting the content from GGC. Clearly the number of people who disagree with your post means it is a good idea. People are mad they wouldn't be able to abuse it.

The problem with a level gate on the gifting event is that there's an unintended side effect, it disproportionately targets casual players. A lot of people assume players blitz past level 40 (or 55) quickly, and anyone who doesn't doesn't "deserve" gifting rewards. But the vast majority of players of the game are far more casual than that, and do not reach those levels quickly. You could be blocking a lot of new players from the gifting event for six months or more if you gate to level 55. And while you can gate advanced content that way, the gifting event is a form of engagement tool: it is meant to attract new players and keep existing ones engaged. If a huge chunk of the new players you're trying to attract to the game are locked out of one of the more popular and discussed events in the game, it will likely be counterproductive to one of the goals of the event.

The *really* big problem is that a level gate disproportionately impacts casual spenders - the players you want the most to attract. A casual player that doesn't grind a ton, and bridges the gap between the time they have available and where they want to be by spending, is the sort of person more likely to spend to participate in the gifting event. They are one of the foundational spenders supporting the game. And we'd be turning many of them off with a level gate.

xNig

BitterSteel said:

xNig said:

I think an alternative solution will be to create different tiers of GGCs, that contain different items.

So a GGC gifted from a Cav account will contain items that benefit mainly Cavs (eg 5* shards, smaller T5b amounts, T2A etc 5* roster progression items).

TB GGCs will contain larger T5b portions, T6b, T3A, 6* shards etc items that focus on 6* roster progression.

So even using such farming methods, because the account will at most be Conquerer, the items gifted out will be mostly useless to main accounts that are Cav and above, ie indirectly curbing the exploit.

What about revives and refills etc? I know your suggestion would cover a lot of the problem, by stopping the GGC exploit, but it doesn’t solve all.

There’s a limit to revives and refills usage imo (ie content to use them in + natural expiration of stashed items).

At most, you’re looking at V8/A7.3 energy costs, which is roughly, give or take, 40 refills and maybe 30-40 revives. Anything extra goes into stash and is subjected to natural expiration.

Considering the “unlimited” nature of GGCs, the small issue of revives/refills is something I’m willing to accept to curb the gifting exploit.

DNA3000

xNig said:

I think an alternative solution will be to create different tiers of GGCs, that contain different items.

So a GGC gifted from a Cav account will contain items that benefit mainly Cavs (eg 5* shards, smaller T5b amounts, T2A etc 5* roster progression items).

TB GGCs will contain larger T5b portions, T6b, T3A, 6* shards etc items that focus on 6* roster progression.

So even using such farming methods, because the account will at most be Conquerer, the items gifted out will be mostly useless to main accounts that are Cav and above, ie indirectly curbing the exploit.

This is problematic because while it tackles some of the exploits, it creates problems for the players who are using the gifting event "normally." If I as a Thronebreaker exchange gifts with an Uncollected player, then weirdly they would be getting TB rewards and I would be getting UC rewards, which a lot of people will perceive to be unfair. More importantly, it could add friction to gifting between non-exploiters, which is the last thing we want to do.

xNig

Not to mention, limiting GGCs to different tiers also avoids players excessively overpowering past their current progression level.

Eg. A fresh UC farming 120k units and gifting himself all the GGCs, which will result in insane amounts of 6* shards, Cats etc, which will likely allow him to get multiple R3s and even R4s.

King363672

Some time this community sucks because of threads like this 😑😑

King363672

Ironman3000 said:

I just don't see enough people farming on 3 phones for 8+ hours a day to be a real issue.

And not every got time like brain

NastyPhish

they should just make ggc uncollected and up only.

xNig

DNA3000 said:

xNig said:

I think an alternative solution will be to create different tiers of GGCs, that contain different items.

So a GGC gifted from a Cav account will contain items that benefit mainly Cavs (eg 5* shards, smaller T5b amounts, T2A etc 5* roster progression items).

TB GGCs will contain larger T5b portions, T6b, T3A, 6* shards etc items that focus on 6* roster progression.

So even using such farming methods, because the account will at most be Conquerer, the items gifted out will be mostly useless to main accounts that are Cav and above, ie indirectly curbing the exploit.

This is problematic because while it tackles some of the exploits, it creates problems for the players who are using the gifting event "normally." If I as a Thronebreaker exchange gifts with an Uncollected player, then weirdly they would be getting TB rewards and I would be getting UC rewards, which a lot of people will perceive to be unfair. More importantly, it could add friction to gifting between non-exploiters, which is the last thing we want to do.

That’s true. On the other hand, there are other benefits such as;

1.If you’re in an alliance, it’s likely everyone is roughly in the same level/progression tier. So trading within negates the complication of “trading up/down”. (Mantra of “trade with people you know”)

2. Reduces scamming of newer/unknowing players on global because the odds of trading “down” is a lot higher for scammers than trading “up”.

3. Friction between non-exploiters won’t exist because titles can be clearly seen on anyone’s’ profile.

BitterSteel

King363672 said:

Some time this community sucks because of threads like this 😑😑

Same with posts like this…

The sort of post like yours is right in line with those ones that say “shhhh don’t make posts about this revive drop spot in act 3.X”. As if you’re being sneaky and stopping kabam from finding out.

They know. They know what’s going on in their game that they collect nonstop data on. If thousands of new accounts are being made and the units not being spent, they’ll know. If all those accounts send gifts to the same players, they’ll know. You aren’t getting one over them by keeping these situations “quiet”.

xNig

Oh yes, forgot to mention this in my earlier post.

There is no loss to Kabam in terms of profit because these units are farmed and not bought. So it doesn’t affect their bottom line.

The only thing that will be affected is the “new players/accounts created” statistics that will show a true number, instead of an artificial growth due to dummy accounts created (which I might add, will never be used again once this gifting event is over).

BitterSteel

xNig said:

Oh yes, forgot to mention this in my earlier post.

There is no loss to Kabam in terms of profit because these units are farmed and not bought. So it doesn’t affect their bottom line.

The only thing that will be affected is the “new players/accounts created” statistics that will show a true number, instead of an artificial growth due to dummy accounts created (which I might add, will never be used again once this gifting event is over).

I mean, if someone can grind out 10-20k pretty easily, why would they spend any money getting extra?

xNig

BitterSteel said:

xNig said:

Oh yes, forgot to mention this in my earlier post.

There is no loss to Kabam in terms of profit because these units are farmed and not bought. So it doesn’t affect their bottom line.

The only thing that will be affected is the “new players/accounts created” statistics that will show a true number, instead of an artificial growth due to dummy accounts created (which I might add, will never be used again once this gifting event is over).

I mean, if someone can grind out 10-20k pretty easily, why would they spend any money getting extra?

Yup exactly.

BitterSteel

xNig said:

BitterSteel said:

xNig said:

Oh yes, forgot to mention this in my earlier post.

There is no loss to Kabam in terms of profit because these units are farmed and not bought. So it doesn’t affect their bottom line.

The only thing that will be affected is the “new players/accounts created” statistics that will show a true number, instead of an artificial growth due to dummy accounts created (which I might add, will never be used again once this gifting event is over).

I mean, if someone can grind out 10-20k pretty easily, why would they spend any money getting extra?

Yup exactly.

No I mean that, someone like me who would generally consider spending £100 or so on gifting.

To replace that £100 I will now just go and grind out 2 accounts (which is 12 hours over the next 45 days, so about an 15 mins a day), and get myself 3k units. That’s £100 Kabam lose out on. I’m not going to then spend £100 for 3100 units more, when I could just grind some more accounts

And yes, I know not everyone has the time to make up that difference. But some will, and that means that this will affect Kabam’s bottom line if it continues.

GroundedWisdom

I'm still on the fence with this one. It's been a legitimate action since these Events started. Personally, I have one Account. However, I'm not convinced it's a major issue. If someone has that much time and energy on their hands, it's really not affecting me.
The other side of it is I could see how it could be milked. I'm just not completely convinced it's unfair. I think this has more to do with the "competitiveness of F2P" than anything. Which BG is concerned with. I'm not of the same mindset of F2P/P2P, or any comparison or competition therein. I think there's way too much stock invested in that pride.
I suppose I'm cool either way. If something is actually egregious or unfair in an imbalancing way, I'm all for action. If it's just because of having eyes on the plates of others, meh.

BitterSteel

JustingBonoko said:

BitterSteel said:

xNig said:

BitterSteel said:

xNig said:

Oh yes, forgot to mention this in my earlier post.

There is no loss to Kabam in terms of profit because these units are farmed and not bought. So it doesn’t affect their bottom line.

The only thing that will be affected is the “new players/accounts created” statistics that will show a true number, instead of an artificial growth due to dummy accounts created (which I might add, will never be used again once this gifting event is over).

I mean, if someone can grind out 10-20k pretty easily, why would they spend any money getting extra?

Yup exactly.

No I mean that, someone like me who would generally consider spending £100 or so on gifting, I will now just go and grind out 10 accounts (which is 20 hours over the next 45 days, so about an hour a day), and get myself 6k units. That’s £100 Kabam lose out on. I’m not going to then spend £100 for 3100 units more, when I could just grind some more accounts

And yes, I know not everyone has the time to make up that difference. But some will, and that means that this will affect Kabam’s bottom line if it continues.

some will - kabam know how many and given they dont care shows you are just overreacting, and there arent that many players who will grind on 10 acounts lol - I also assume you dont have family or full time job - 100 quid over hours of grind any day

One sec, my maths were off there. I’ll fix it now.

BitterSteel

@JustingBonoko as you can see, to replace £100 of units over the next 45 days, you’d need to do 15 mins of grinding a day. Not exactly stopped by a full time job. Give someone an option between £100 and 15 minutes of something a day, or even an hour and a half a week. And see how many of them will be up to saving £100. So yes, it will affect Kabam’s bottom line if people can save money. It doesn’t take a genius to work it out.

I’d love to know how you know that Kabam don’t care though, seeing as they haven’t commented on this situation.

I’m not sure what your assumption on me was based on, but if 15 minutes, or even an hour a day of playing a game excludes someone from having a job or family, then I guess most of the forum community is included in that. Shame, my family and coworkers will be devastated.

DNA3000

xNig said:

DNA3000 said:

xNig said:

I think an alternative solution will be to create different tiers of GGCs, that contain different items.

So a GGC gifted from a Cav account will contain items that benefit mainly Cavs (eg 5* shards, smaller T5b amounts, T2A etc 5* roster progression items).

TB GGCs will contain larger T5b portions, T6b, T3A, 6* shards etc items that focus on 6* roster progression.

So even using such farming methods, because the account will at most be Conquerer, the items gifted out will be mostly useless to main accounts that are Cav and above, ie indirectly curbing the exploit.

This is problematic because while it tackles some of the exploits, it creates problems for the players who are using the gifting event "normally." If I as a Thronebreaker exchange gifts with an Uncollected player, then weirdly they would be getting TB rewards and I would be getting UC rewards, which a lot of people will perceive to be unfair. More importantly, it could add friction to gifting between non-exploiters, which is the last thing we want to do.

That’s true. On the other hand, there are other benefits such as;

1.If you’re in an alliance, it’s likely everyone is roughly in the same level/progression tier. So trading within negates the complication of “trading up/down”. (Mantra of “trade with people you know”).

I think this is more likely to be true the higher and more dedicated you are, and less true the more casual or lower progress you are. So anything that benefits uniform alliances but causes issues to heterogenous ones is more likely to be problematic for casual and lower progress players, which could have an impact on the game’s ability to attract or retain new players. Not to overstate the magnitude of the problem, but it isn’t a problem I would want to incur at the moment.

Eb0ny-O-M4w

More great solutions:

- Cap at 1x gift per day. 1 gift = 1 point in the event. No rank rewards, just milestones. And anyone can easily get these.

- No gifting event this year. We don't need another money event

GroundedWisdom

Eb0ny-O-M4w said:

More great solutions:

- Cap at 1x gift per day. 1 gift = 1 point in the event. No rank rewards, just milestones. And anyone can easily get these.

- No gifting event this year. We don't need another money event

If we didn't have money events, we'd be playing a game with the graphic capabilities of Minecraft, and Ads every 10 seconds. Lol.

DNA3000

JustingBonoko said:

DNA3000 said:

xNig said:

I think an alternative solution will be to create different tiers of GGCs, that contain different items.

So a GGC gifted from a Cav account will contain items that benefit mainly Cavs (eg 5* shards, smaller T5b amounts, T2A etc 5* roster progression items).

TB GGCs will contain larger T5b portions, T6b, T3A, 6* shards etc items that focus on 6* roster progression.

So even using such farming methods, because the account will at most be Conquerer, the items gifted out will be mostly useless to main accounts that are Cav and above, ie indirectly curbing the exploit.

This is problematic because while it tackles some of the exploits, it creates problems for the players who are using the gifting event "normally." If I as a Thronebreaker exchange gifts with an Uncollected player, then weirdly they would be getting TB rewards and I would be getting UC rewards, which a lot of people will perceive to be unfair. More importantly, it could add friction to gifting between non-exploiters, which is the last thing we want to do.

honestly though, the exploiters willing to farm units like that wouldnt be more than arena botters, the legit players who are looking forward to this event to enjoy the gifting spirit must be vast majority of players base...

using legit farmed units from alts is not against rules, against gifting spirit? maybe, but it's minority of players base

arena bots and credit frauds are and should be kabam's priority...

I think Brian touched on this in his video (or he mentioned it elsewhere and I’m conflating) but there is a meta issue that isn’t insignificant. The low progress farming he discusses isn’t a binary all or nothing thing. Technically, I’ve had three accounts for a while now. Two of them are going to benefit from having access to those easy units. I could easily funnel them to my main during Gifting. Most people wouldn’t consider that a problem. But what if I roll up a new alt now, to snag another 2k units. Still okay? How about two. How about 28 and I fill an alliance with them. How about I make three, but I have nine friends who also make three and we trade between each other? How about a family of alliances who all agree that each player will make four and contribute to a giant mega trading pile?

There’s a continuum of this stuff that doesn’t just jump straight from “legitimate player” to “bot.” And it begs the question of whether this will legitimize this kind of activity, and make it harder to draw the line on where this becomes abuse. Maybe the community itself softens their stance on this, when everyone has a friend of a friend who’s doing it. Does this blur the lines on what constitutes abuse? I think that’s a legitimate concern here Kabam should consider carefully.

DNA3000

GroundedWisdom said:

Eb0ny-O-M4w said:

More great solutions:

- Cap at 1x gift per day. 1 gift = 1 point in the event. No rank rewards, just milestones. And anyone can easily get these.

- No gifting event this year. We don't need another money event

If we didn't have money events, we'd be playing a game with the graphic capabilities of Minecraft, and Ads every 10 seconds. Lol.

If by that you mean we would all be playing Bejeweled, you’re right. Without the various ways the game generates revenue, many of which lots of players complain about senselessly, we wouldn’t have a worse game, we would have no game at all.