6* r4 is Useless...

Kabl

...in most content. We desperately need endgame content where they're basically not make it easier to do but needed 'cause 5* r5 can do story, event, aq, aw, incursions. So what's their point? prestige?

ChaosMax1012

Sustainability, higher damage, and yes more prestige. It’s not useless, just makes content or defenses even easier. Also 5* r5s for AW isn’t ideal. One mistake and you’re dead. Higher healthpools help.

Kabl

ChaosMax1012 said:

Sustainability, higher damage, and yes more prestige. It’s not useless, just makes content or defenses even easier. Also 5* r5s for AW isn’t ideal. One mistake and you’re dead. Higher healthpools help.

I did say most content, for top alliances in aw yes but most don't need 'em.

ChaosMax1012

Kabl said:

ChaosMax1012 said:

Sustainability, higher damage, and yes more prestige. It’s not useless, just makes content or defenses even easier. Also 5* r5s for AW isn’t ideal. One mistake and you’re dead. Higher healthpools help.

I did say most content, for top alliances in aw yes but most don't need 'em.

To progress, yes. Just like 6* r3 for TB, 6* r4 will probably bring similar benefits. Otherwise they will be used competitively.

Kabl

ChaosMax1012 said:

Kabl said:

ChaosMax1012 said:

Sustainability, higher damage, and yes more prestige. It’s not useless, just makes content or defenses even easier. Also 5* r5s for AW isn’t ideal. One mistake and you’re dead. Higher healthpools help.

I did say most content, for top alliances in aw yes but most don't need 'em.

To progress, yes. Just like 6* r3 for TB, 6* r4 will probably bring similar benefits. Otherwise they will be used competitively.

But still there should be endgame content where you wouldn't really want using 5* r5 anymore.

ThatGuyYouSaw235

You're telling me that the BEST possible rank right now with the MOST damage and health in the game... is useless?

How do you even come to that conclusion.

ChaosMax1012

Kabl said:

ChaosMax1012 said:

Kabl said:

ChaosMax1012 said:

Sustainability, higher damage, and yes more prestige. It’s not useless, just makes content or defenses even easier. Also 5* r5s for AW isn’t ideal. One mistake and you’re dead. Higher healthpools help.

I did say most content, for top alliances in aw yes but most don't need 'em.

To progress, yes. Just like 6* r3 for TB, 6* r4 will probably bring similar benefits. Otherwise they will be used competitively.

But still there should be endgame content where you wouldn't really want using 5* r5 anymore.

Alliance war, and act 7 is acting more beneficial toward 6*s with the global node. Blocked hits with 5*s for endgame content is a hit, so requires more skill and patience. It’s not to say 5*s are as efficient as 6*s for general content, but viable for those that may not have a good 6* roster and trying to progress. The 6* r4 isn’t a necessity currently unless you are competing in the highest level alliances, but even then they gain more stats which can make content easier, or a champ that has really good utility and meh damage hit harder and be useful.

Malreck04

ThatGuyYouSaw235 said:

You're telling me that the BEST possible rank right now with the MOST damage and health in the game... is useless?

How do you even come to that conclusion.

By not having one to show off, probably

Kabl

ThatGuyYouSaw235 said:

You're telling me that the BEST possible rank right now with the MOST damage and health in the game... is useless?

How do you even come to that conclusion.

Most things in this game can be done with lower ranks, their only real use is top alliance aw. They'd have more use if we had more content focusing on them.

Kabl

Maybe I've overestimated the 5* r5's capability of doing content, but is their content 6* r4 can do that 6* r3 can't?

AMS94

Useless - No
Unnecessary - Yes
Worth the hype & extra spending - Not unless u're in top AQ alliances

Moosetiptronic

6* r2 have 10% more health and attack than 5/65, r3 add another 15%, r4 for another 15%.

Add on another 5% to 10% for increased Challenger rating benefits (improved armour and block, improved crit rate).

A rank 4 6* is equivalent to a 5/65 with full rainbow boosts. Possibly more.

Add in the act7 global....

Rank 4s make everything easier!

Kabl

AMS94 said:

Useless - No
Unnecessary - Yes
Worth the hype & extra spending - Not unless u're in top AQ alliances

Maybe unnecessary would have been the more appropriate word I've used.

ThatGuyYouSaw235

Kabl said:

ThatGuyYouSaw235 said:

You're telling me that the BEST possible rank right now with the MOST damage and health in the game... is useless?

How do you even come to that conclusion.

Most things in this game can be done with lower ranks, their only real use is top alliance aw. They'd have more use if we had more content focusing on them.

And it makes R4s useless how?

Kabl

ThatGuyYouSaw235 said:

Kabl said:

ThatGuyYouSaw235 said:

You're telling me that the BEST possible rank right now with the MOST damage and health in the game... is useless?

How do you even come to that conclusion.

Most things in this game can be done with lower ranks, their only real use is top alliance aw. They'd have more use if we had more content focusing on them.

And it makes R4s useless how?

@AMS94 is right, maybe not useless but unnecessary for most content.

blitzzz

i think the only use for 6 star R4 is the prestige and increased power gain for some champs like dr doom who can do his cycle perfectly at R4 or above or spidey99 who needs to access sp2's in crazy power gain matchups or my boi hawkeye who can cycle sp3's easier in long form content or going for the sp3 while the fragile debuffs are active etc

KingInBlack

It seems pretty obvious the point OP is making, most content is easily done using 5* r5. He's saying, correctly, that's the drive for higher ranked 6* champs doesn't serve much purpose based on content available. In fairness to Kabam they did put out the gauntlet and SoP this past year, which higher rank 6* gave a pretty big benefit imo. Those of us in the endgame segment will always want more content to challenge us and last year we got some of the best to date. Hopefully this year brings similar events and I'm hoping 7.4 falls in that line since it's permanent. I hated act 6 upon release but once it was 100% I kind of miss the challenge and something to chip away at since act 7 is much much easier.

Buck9studio

Less time in fights is always better, sure you can use a boost but use that boost on a R4. I will love a R4 when i get there.

Anthonytony

You get way more base health too. block damage takes its toll when fighting strong champs

Graves_3

Kabl said:

ChaosMax1012 said:

Sustainability, higher damage, and yes more prestige. It’s not useless, just makes content or defenses even easier. Also 5* r5s for AW isn’t ideal. One mistake and you’re dead. Higher healthpools help.

I did say most content, for top alliances in aw yes but most don't need 'em.

Also most don’t have ‘em. When most have ‘em, sure we will need content to use ‘em.

Kerneas

Yea, I have been saying this since they came out. Story quest is stuck at 5* r5 level difficulty. 6* r3 make it comparably easier than the previous story pieces and w 6* r4 it gets dangerously close to being a child's game.

However I must admit that Act 7 is a unique piece of content, that redefines "difficulty", so I can't be constructive here, because I simply dunno which way should the difficulty grow.

DNA3000

Kabl said:

Maybe I've overestimated the 5* r5's capability of doing content, but is their content 6* r4 can do that 6* r3 can't?

That's the wrong question. The right question is: is there content players would prefer to use R4s than R3s? And the answer, for me, is yes. I can do everything in the game, at least as far as I know. But I can't do everything itemless with my eyes closed. Content has a wide range of difficulty, and "impossible" is just the far extreme on one end. There's content that I can do easily with 5* champs. There's content I can do without significant difficulty with R3s. There's content I can do with difficulty and item usage with R3s. While I'm exploring 7.3 I'm sure I could do it with R2s, but I would prefer to do it with R3s. I'll take any R4s I can muster.

Our champions do not do content. Players do content. There's no content that a 6* r3 can't do, if only 6* R3s played themselves. There's lots of content that many players cannot do without burning resources with R3s. There's content that some players can't do at all even with R3s.

Meanwhile, for the highest skill players in the game, there isn't likely *ever* going to be much content that requires the highest rarity and rank champs in the game, for the simple reason that if that content requires both the highest skill that exists and the strongest champs that exist, who's going to do it besides that tiny slice of players?

DNA3000

Dkcody42 said:

Maybe the point of this should be more like 6 star r4’s aren’t worth the thousands of dollars it takes to achieve when compared to other ranks that can still very much do the exact same thing, minus the prestige obviously

R4s are worth what players are willing to do to get them. If you're a player of sufficient skill that you can do everything you want to do with R3s, and you believe it is unlikely that situation will change any time in the foreseeable future, then R4s are not very valuable to you now. Which is fine: the pursuit goals in this game are not designed to compel everyone to chase them. The game would be horrible if the game forced everyone to chase the same high value things.

Moosetiptronic

Astute observation @DNA3000

Given Swedeah and now MSD have completed abyss easy path itemless and in time both of them (and others) have posted videos soloing pretty much every piece of content in game, except for the 4* Carina challenges.... There is no content that they can make which is technically challenging from a skill view point, which won't eventually be beaten by someone like Bero with a 2*

So the only "challenge" for them, is perfect play content with possibly permanent death touch, or such ludicrously high attack that it's a similar outcome.

You have to inject RNG events in the passage of play and "fun and interactive damage" that results in either inevitable death (4* in laby) or random death (passive DOT randomly inflicted by the defender at some point), to stop such players.

For everyone else, there's what has been tried before to date; either

1. higher attack values, higher health and power creep (originally act 6 and act 7 beta)
2. Node combinations that is a roster check, plus higher attack and health values (act 7 now, variants, SOP, GM gauntlet)

So if anyone have a way of making engaging, fun, entertaining and broad content challenging for all players, that's easy to code, release and repeat with, with "rewards" that don't imbalance the game... Suggest away!

In the meantime, those who like a challenge for the sake of challenge, will take Steve into off season tier 1 war, or fight act 6 Hyperion with Ronan or Thor rags, or beat abyss thing with 2* shulk.

For some, there is nothing created so far, by kabam, that's skill based, that at least one player hasn't trivialized.

Rank 4s in that context are pointless. But for us mere mortals, r3 and r4 are a route to a more enjoyable game experience.

Moosetiptronic

@JoshKosh557 yeah, I know ;-) I liked the theory craft to do it; mojo, AA, psylock though

Longshot_33

Not useless. They will obviously unlock the next tier of title and goodies and gives the whales something to flap over between each other which pays the wages at Kabam which gets us champs like Quicksilver and Kraven (fail btw) to play in a game we love where Omega Red can duke it out with a monkey in a suit. Name another game where that can happen. It’s a necessary evil basically