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An Update to Balancing in MCOC!

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Comments

  • AyushTheHeroAyushTheHero Posts: 5 ★
    MCOC Team said:

    Greetings Summoners!

    In the coming months, we are going to be introducing a new Champion Rating system to help better visualize the strengths and weaknesses of any given Champion, giving you all a better understanding of the Champion at a glance.

    Coinciding with this new rating system, we are creating a new rebalancing process for that will apply to all new Champions coming to The Contest.

    This new balancing cadence means that reworks for older Champions will slow somewhat but will still occur!

    These new balancing initiatives will be spearheaded by an expanded Champion Balancing team here at Kabam. The newest recruit to the team is a beloved community member who will make themselves known when they feel the time is right!

    If you want to learn all of the details, read the expanded version below!

    Let's talk about balancing and a new Ability Rating System coming soon to MCOC. Ready? Let's go!

    Today we would like to talk with you about the next chapter of balancing in Marvel Contest of Champions and a brand new initiative we are undertaking to help new and old players better understand the capabilities and kits of Champions.

    So far, since starting our rebalance initiative, we have updated 32 of your favourite Champions to varying degrees. Our initial implementation of balancing in The Contest was new territory for the Champions team and the community alike. We believe that balancing as a whole has been great for the health of the game as we have taken the opportunity to go back to review and refresh Champions that may have performed differently than we intended or the Community expected.

    When we set out to create a Champion, we outline goals for the Champion that we want to hit, usually aspects of the Champion’s core identity that we want to highlight, and gameplay opportunities that we feel would be fun and useful in our different game modes. Our intention with balancing is always to go in and have a second look to make sure that we are adhering to the initial goals we set out when building the character from the ground up.

    So, let's talk about the future of Balancing and our ever-evolving initiative to educate Summoners about the nuances of The Contest and visualize that information in-game.

    Enter: MCOC’s Brand New Ability Rating System!

    One huge piece of feedback we have received from a wide range of Summoners is that currently, it's hard to know what is and what is not intended when it comes to Champion Balance. This can cause confusion amongst the player base when Champions behave in new or peculiar ways.

    Starting in March, we will be adding a brand new 5-Point Ability Rating System to all Champions in the game.

    What does it look like?

    We will be rating Champions on a few different aspects of their abilities and general strengths and weaknesses.

    While we are still hammering down the details, we are currently looking to implement ratings for Damage Output, Survivability, Utility, and Ease of Use.

    For example, Cull Obsidian is a great Champion with high damage output, but not as much utility, so he would have a 5/5 in Damage, but closer to a 1 or 2 for Utility. Magik, on the other hand, is a Champion with high utility and ease of use, but a lower damage rating.

    These are still a work in progress but should give a general idea of what you can expect.

    Further, we are launching a brand new rebalancing initiative for new Champions, here is how it's going to work:

    Champion Balancing will work in a six-month cadence from the release of a new Champion. One-third of that time will consist of that Champion being in the hands of experienced players and will include back and forth feedback between the community and the development team.

    This change to balancing also means that over time, we will be bolstering and expanding our beta program to allow more Summoners the opportunity to interact with new Champions updates as much as possible.

    After release, a Champion's live data will be reviewed for three months (this is not a new addition, but has only been done behind the scenes for the most part). After that period, changes will be made off of the collected data and put on the beta server for further testing and feedback collection.

    Changes will live on the beta server for two months where we will be collecting player feedback at this time. The updated Champion will then be released to the live game.

    Let’s use the first Champion releasing in March as an example.
    • Release: March 17
    • Data Collection: March - Mid-June
    • Changes live on Beta Server: June - Mid-August
    • Changes Released to Public: Late August
    This is where the new rating system comes into play: Using these new ratings, we will compare live data of the characters to the original goals in the ratings and if needed, balance the Champion based on the difference between the new and old data.

    We believe that this process is an improvement because it is more inclusive of the community than we have been in the past, and take away the mystery or “will they, won’t they?” of Champion's balance changes.

    When we conducted tuning changes in the past, the majority of negative feedback from the community was due to the fact that these tuning changes were conducted in a vacuum. Players had a hard time understanding what was overpowered and underpowered and had no input into what was changing.

    Now, with the rating system, players will be able to better judge if a Champion is in the right place, and be able to give feedback along the way while updates are being made.

    The first Champions to release with this new System and be subject to the new rebalance cadence will be the 2 new Champions set to release in March

    What would the Balance Changes look like?

    Balance Changes should be somewhat familiar to the majority of Players at this time since we’ve done more than a few of them by now.

    For examples of tune-ups, you can take a look at Mole Man or Terrax, while a tune-down would be more akin to Cull Obsidian or Namor.

    While Cull Obsidian or Namor’s changes were initially seen as majorly negative, Summoners soon found that the changes were not major, and continue to use those Champions to this day.

    We also want to re-emphasize that any changes will be made with much more visibility this time, and will be incorporating player feedback during the process, instead of after.

    What does this mean for the current balance program you ask? Good question!

    Reworks are not going anywhere. However, with the new balancing initiative outlined above, there may not be 2 major or medium reworks a month moving forward.

    If a Champion releases and we are content with where they have landed as far as power and design goals, the team will then use that extra development time to work on other balancing initiatives like new reworks!

    We don't have any major reworks lined up for February but you can look forward to a value update for Psycho-Man to go live in March.

    In April, we’ll be moving back to our 2 updates per month, but will not guarantee what kind of updates they will be (overhaul, moderate, or value only). We’re also spending some time to give some more love to Champion animation updates, so look forward to animation and ability updates coming for Gamora, Storm, and Deadpool (X-Force)!

    Why is Balancing Important?

    In the past, we’ve tried different ways to address balance in The Contest, but have worked to improve our approach based on response or other factors.

    Balancing new Champions is important for the health of The Contest, and also allows our Designers to continue to innovate and try new and interesting mechanics with more confidence, knowing that if something doesn’t come out the way we had intended, we can go back to address that.

    Many of the most popular Champions in The Contest are those Champs where we try different approaches to their abilities, but without the safety net of being able to take a second look, we often find ourselves being more conservative in our approach. We want players to be excited about the possibilities every new Champion presents, and a new Balance system gives us the opportunity to be more ambitious with new designs, or tune-up Champions that maybe were not ambitious enough!

    To complement this renewed commitment to Balance in The Contest, we have some Balance team updates to share with you:

    We have recently expanded our Balance Design team on Contest and brought in a beloved member of the community who possesses a deep knowledge and understanding of the game to assist Kabam John with the monumental task of keeping the pain trains running on time in the Battlerealm.

    This new team member has already had a hand in helping to plan this new rating system, as well as future Alliance War Tactic updates and the next iteration of Carina’s Challenges.

    We won't reveal who that new team member is yet but will let them do it themselves when they feel the time is right!

    The Balance design team is set to continue to expand with the hopes that we can have a closer ear and eye on all of the content in the Battlerealm and be able to more quickly and efficiently provide fun and engaging content to all of our amazing Summoners.

    That's all we have for you today Summoners, but moving forward, communication and feedback are going to be paramount! So, sound off in the comments down below how you feel about everything we’ve talked about today. What do you like or dislike about rebalances to new Champions? While we may not be able to take action on something right away but want to take your thoughts into consideration as we make decisions moving forward.

    Until next time!
    Please just Buff Purgatory already! I appreciate this work & initiative but we really need buffs which is Kaboomed by Kabam.
  • AyushTheHeroAyushTheHero Posts: 5 ★
    Wozzle007 said:

    So here’s my list of champions that are pretty useless in the game. There’s more that would ideally need a buff as well, but I have no idea why the focus is not on buffing these as quickly as possible. Then we’d start to see some balance to the game.

    Abomination, Captain America, Captain America WW2, Ant Man, Hulk, Rhino, Sentry, Spider-Man, Agent Venom, Black Widow, Daredevil, Elektra, Korg, Moon Knight, Punisher, Winter Soldier, Beast, Cyclops Blue, Cyclops Red, Deadpool X Force, Nightcrawler, Storm, Iron Patriot (still trash for me), Green Goblin, Iron Man, Iron Patriot, Psycho Man (confirmed value buff), Red Skull, Rocket, Yondu, Black Bolt, Captain Marvel, Drax, Gamora (still trash for me), Groot, Heimdall, Ms Marvell, Nova (still trash for me), Phoenix, Ronan, Spider-Man Symbiote, Superior Iron Man, Thor, Dr Strange, Iron Fist, Immortal Iron Fist, Juggernaut, Loki, Mordo, Jane Foster, Unstoppable Colossus

    Yeah bro! They seriously need to consider on buffs but my thoughts are that OG versions or very old champs which aren't cared by anyone literally anyone (e.g - Gamora) shouldn't be your most priority. Work on new, fan favs & champs who really are Powered in the comicverse/Multiverse etc - etc, and if u do buffs the OGs don't make them play too tricky, Annoying and Proskillful cause it's not worth that much, In a shelf of all Powerful and OP Champions.

    One more thing add Purgatory too in that buff list.
  • AyushTheHeroAyushTheHero Posts: 5 ★
    AyushTheHero said:

    MCOC Team said:

    Greetings Summoners!

    In the coming months, we are going to be introducing a new Champion Rating system to help better visualize the strengths and weaknesses of any given Champion, giving you all a better understanding of the Champion at a glance.

    Coinciding with this new rating system, we are creating a new rebalancing process for that will apply to all new Champions coming to The Contest.

    This new balancing cadence means that reworks for older Champions will slow somewhat but will still occur!

    These new balancing initiatives will be spearheaded by an expanded Champion Balancing team here at Kabam. The newest recruit to the team is a beloved community member who will make themselves known when they feel the time is right!

    If you want to learn all of the details, read the expanded version below!

    Let's talk about balancing and a new Ability Rating System coming soon to MCOC. Ready? Let's go!

    Today we would like to talk with you about the next chapter of balancing in Marvel Contest of Champions and a brand new initiative we are undertaking to help new and old players better understand the capabilities and kits of Champions.

    So far, since starting our rebalance initiative, we have updated 32 of your favourite Champions to varying degrees. Our initial implementation of balancing in The Contest was new territory for the Champions team and the community alike. We believe that balancing as a whole has been great for the health of the game as we have taken the opportunity to go back to review and refresh Champions that may have performed differently than we intended or the Community expected.

    When we set out to create a Champion, we outline goals for the Champion that we want to hit, usually aspects of the Champion’s core identity that we want to highlight, and gameplay opportunities that we feel would be fun and useful in our different game modes. Our intention with balancing is always to go in and have a second look to make sure that we are adhering to the initial goals we set out when building the character from the ground up.

    So, let's talk about the future of Balancing and our ever-evolving initiative to educate Summoners about the nuances of The Contest and visualize that information in-game.

    Enter: MCOC’s Brand New Ability Rating System!

    One huge piece of feedback we have received from a wide range of Summoners is that currently, it's hard to know what is and what is not intended when it comes to Champion Balance. This can cause confusion amongst the player base when Champions behave in new or peculiar ways.

    Starting in March, we will be adding a brand new 5-Point Ability Rating System to all Champions in the game.

    What does it look like?

    We will be rating Champions on a few different aspects of their abilities and general strengths and weaknesses.

    While we are still hammering down the details, we are currently looking to implement ratings for Damage Output, Survivability, Utility, and Ease of Use.

    For example, Cull Obsidian is a great Champion with high damage output, but not as much utility, so he would have a 5/5 in Damage, but closer to a 1 or 2 for Utility. Magik, on the other hand, is a Champion with high utility and ease of use, but a lower damage rating.

    These are still a work in progress but should give a general idea of what you can expect.

    Further, we are launching a brand new rebalancing initiative for new Champions, here is how it's going to work:

    Champion Balancing will work in a six-month cadence from the release of a new Champion. One-third of that time will consist of that Champion being in the hands of experienced players and will include back and forth feedback between the community and the development team.

    This change to balancing also means that over time, we will be bolstering and expanding our beta program to allow more Summoners the opportunity to interact with new Champions updates as much as possible.

    After release, a Champion's live data will be reviewed for three months (this is not a new addition, but has only been done behind the scenes for the most part). After that period, changes will be made off of the collected data and put on the beta server for further testing and feedback collection.

    Changes will live on the beta server for two months where we will be collecting player feedback at this time. The updated Champion will then be released to the live game.

    Let’s use the first Champion releasing in March as an example.
    • Release: March 17
    • Data Collection: March - Mid-June
    • Changes live on Beta Server: June - Mid-August
    • Changes Released to Public: Late August
    This is where the new rating system comes into play: Using these new ratings, we will compare live data of the characters to the original goals in the ratings and if needed, balance the Champion based on the difference between the new and old data.

    We believe that this process is an improvement because it is more inclusive of the community than we have been in the past, and take away the mystery or “will they, won’t they?” of Champion's balance changes.

    When we conducted tuning changes in the past, the majority of negative feedback from the community was due to the fact that these tuning changes were conducted in a vacuum. Players had a hard time understanding what was overpowered and underpowered and had no input into what was changing.

    Now, with the rating system, players will be able to better judge if a Champion is in the right place, and be able to give feedback along the way while updates are being made.

    The first Champions to release with this new System and be subject to the new rebalance cadence will be the 2 new Champions set to release in March

    What would the Balance Changes look like?

    Balance Changes should be somewhat familiar to the majority of Players at this time since we’ve done more than a few of them by now.

    For examples of tune-ups, you can take a look at Mole Man or Terrax, while a tune-down would be more akin to Cull Obsidian or Namor.

    While Cull Obsidian or Namor’s changes were initially seen as majorly negative, Summoners soon found that the changes were not major, and continue to use those Champions to this day.

    We also want to re-emphasize that any changes will be made with much more visibility this time, and will be incorporating player feedback during the process, instead of after.

    What does this mean for the current balance program you ask? Good question!

    Reworks are not going anywhere. However, with the new balancing initiative outlined above, there may not be 2 major or medium reworks a month moving forward.

    If a Champion releases and we are content with where they have landed as far as power and design goals, the team will then use that extra development time to work on other balancing initiatives like new reworks!

    We don't have any major reworks lined up for February but you can look forward to a value update for Psycho-Man to go live in March.

    In April, we’ll be moving back to our 2 updates per month, but will not guarantee what kind of updates they will be (overhaul, moderate, or value only). We’re also spending some time to give some more love to Champion animation updates, so look forward to animation and ability updates coming for Gamora, Storm, and Deadpool (X-Force)!

    Why is Balancing Important?

    In the past, we’ve tried different ways to address balance in The Contest, but have worked to improve our approach based on response or other factors.

    Balancing new Champions is important for the health of The Contest, and also allows our Designers to continue to innovate and try new and interesting mechanics with more confidence, knowing that if something doesn’t come out the way we had intended, we can go back to address that.

    Many of the most popular Champions in The Contest are those Champs where we try different approaches to their abilities, but without the safety net of being able to take a second look, we often find ourselves being more conservative in our approach. We want players to be excited about the possibilities every new Champion presents, and a new Balance system gives us the opportunity to be more ambitious with new designs, or tune-up Champions that maybe were not ambitious enough!

    To complement this renewed commitment to Balance in The Contest, we have some Balance team updates to share with you:

    We have recently expanded our Balance Design team on Contest and brought in a beloved member of the community who possesses a deep knowledge and understanding of the game to assist Kabam John with the monumental task of keeping the pain trains running on time in the Battlerealm.

    This new team member has already had a hand in helping to plan this new rating system, as well as future Alliance War Tactic updates and the next iteration of Carina’s Challenges.

    We won't reveal who that new team member is yet but will let them do it themselves when they feel the time is right!

    The Balance design team is set to continue to expand with the hopes that we can have a closer ear and eye on all of the content in the Battlerealm and be able to more quickly and efficiently provide fun and engaging content to all of our amazing Summoners.

    That's all we have for you today Summoners, but moving forward, communication and feedback are going to be paramount! So, sound off in the comments down below how you feel about everything we’ve talked about today. What do you like or dislike about rebalances to new Champions? While we may not be able to take action on something right away but want to take your thoughts into consideration as we make decisions moving forward.

    Until next time!
    Please just Buff Purgatory already! I appreciate this work & initiative but we really need buffs which is Kaboomed by Kabam.
    From "buffs" I meant that promise to buff 3 champs in a month not to a simple buff of any specific champ, and I named Purgatory cause in my opinion she sits in the deserving candidate bench among others but sadly that bench is send to #NoManLand. 🤧
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 20,083 ★★★★★
    Fabwizi said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Dklaw144 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Dklaw144 said:

    Absolutely ignoring the player base and failing to do the bare minimum to keep the game interesting yet again. We want buffs, not a rating system. We want champs to be balanced by the development team, we don’t want to do the work ourselves, unpaid. Congratulations, you’ve just lost a player who has been spending for over six years. This is the final straw.

    We're still getting champion buffs. Do you all actually read or just go off what people te you and then act like this?
    Yeah? Where were the buffs in January? February? Where’s the second buff in March?
    They just aren't happening but buffs are coming back in April. Go back and read the post again.
    The frequency is reducing, the intention of buffing is reducing, Excitement for buffs will reduce and thus in some way Excitement towards the game.

    It's more to do with the emotions towards buff programm more then anything.

    The thing is traffic to game may be high now but if interest declines the traffic decline will be exponential this happens to all games.

    There won't be a gradual decline but a rapid one, so every step is important.
    We're getting 2 buffs per month starting in April. That's the current cadence we're currently on. Tell me how that's being reduced?
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 20,083 ★★★★★
    Fredhorst23 said:

    Darkrider05 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Fabwizi said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Dklaw144 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Dklaw144 said:

    Absolutely ignoring the player base and failing to do the bare minimum to keep the game interesting yet again. We want buffs, not a rating system. We want champs to be balanced by the development team, we don’t want to do the work ourselves, unpaid. Congratulations, you’ve just lost a player who has been spending for over six years. This is the final straw.

    We're still getting champion buffs. Do you all actually read or just go off what people te you and then act like this?
    Yeah? Where were the buffs in January? February? Where’s the second buff in March?
    They just aren't happening but buffs are coming back in April. Go back and read the post again.
    The frequency is reducing, the intention of buffing is reducing, Excitement for buffs will reduce and thus in some way Excitement towards the game.

    It's more to do with the emotions towards buff programm more then anything.

    The thing is traffic to game may be high now but if interest declines the traffic decline will be exponential this happens to all games.

    There won't be a gradual decline but a rapid one, so every step is important.
    We're getting 2 buffs per month starting in April. That's the current cadence we're currently on. Tell me how that's being reduced?
    Before, it was guaranteed that one of the 2 buffs per month would be an overhaul, the other would alternate between Moderate and Value only buffs.
    As per the new buff system, it could be just 2 value only updates or only 2 moderate updates or a value update and a moderate update.
    I also thought it was weird that the post says that if a new champ doesn't need adjustment then they will use the extra time for an overhaul. But then that would mean that if the March champ doesn't need changing, they won't know till like May, which means they wouldn't be able to do an overhaul till then. Meanwhile they also said they'll be messing with vfx, which also takes a bunch of time. So it's possible (just guessing) that we wouldn't have a true full buff until summer, like 6 months from now.
    It's literally written in the post how a new champ released will be evaluated.

  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 20,083 ★★★★★
    Darkrider05 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Fabwizi said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Dklaw144 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Dklaw144 said:

    Absolutely ignoring the player base and failing to do the bare minimum to keep the game interesting yet again. We want buffs, not a rating system. We want champs to be balanced by the development team, we don’t want to do the work ourselves, unpaid. Congratulations, you’ve just lost a player who has been spending for over six years. This is the final straw.

    We're still getting champion buffs. Do you all actually read or just go off what people te you and then act like this?
    Yeah? Where were the buffs in January? February? Where’s the second buff in March?
    They just aren't happening but buffs are coming back in April. Go back and read the post again.
    The frequency is reducing, the intention of buffing is reducing, Excitement for buffs will reduce and thus in some way Excitement towards the game.

    It's more to do with the emotions towards buff programm more then anything.

    The thing is traffic to game may be high now but if interest declines the traffic decline will be exponential this happens to all games.

    There won't be a gradual decline but a rapid one, so every step is important.
    We're getting 2 buffs per month starting in April. That's the current cadence we're currently on. Tell me how that's being reduced?
    Before, it was guaranteed that one of the 2 buffs per month would be an overhaul, the other would alternate between Moderate and Value only buffs.
    As per the new buff system, it could be just 2 value only updates or only 2 moderate updates or a value update and a moderate update.
    They literally list all the types of buffs here, they just don't say which type it might be. if you read the post subjectively instead of how you want it to fit your argument to be mad, you'd realize how wrong you are about everything you said-

    Overhauls aren't going away. It says it right here.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 20,083 ★★★★★
    edited January 2022
    Fredhorst23 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Fredhorst23 said:

    Darkrider05 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Fabwizi said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Dklaw144 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Dklaw144 said:

    Absolutely ignoring the player base and failing to do the bare minimum to keep the game interesting yet again. We want buffs, not a rating system. We want champs to be balanced by the development team, we don’t want to do the work ourselves, unpaid. Congratulations, you’ve just lost a player who has been spending for over six years. This is the final straw.

    We're still getting champion buffs. Do you all actually read or just go off what people te you and then act like this?
    Yeah? Where were the buffs in January? February? Where’s the second buff in March?
    They just aren't happening but buffs are coming back in April. Go back and read the post again.
    The frequency is reducing, the intention of buffing is reducing, Excitement for buffs will reduce and thus in some way Excitement towards the game.

    It's more to do with the emotions towards buff programm more then anything.

    The thing is traffic to game may be high now but if interest declines the traffic decline will be exponential this happens to all games.

    There won't be a gradual decline but a rapid one, so every step is important.
    We're getting 2 buffs per month starting in April. That's the current cadence we're currently on. Tell me how that's being reduced?
    Before, it was guaranteed that one of the 2 buffs per month would be an overhaul, the other would alternate between Moderate and Value only buffs.
    As per the new buff system, it could be just 2 value only updates or only 2 moderate updates or a value update and a moderate update.
    I also thought it was weird that the post says that if a new champ doesn't need adjustment then they will use the extra time for an overhaul. But then that would mean that if the March champ doesn't need changing, they won't know till like May, which means they wouldn't be able to do an overhaul till then. Meanwhile they also said they'll be messing with vfx, which also takes a bunch of time. So it's possible (just guessing) that we wouldn't have a true full buff until summer, like 6 months from now.
    It's literally written in the post how a new champ released will be evaluated.

    Yeah I know, I read it. What are you referencing in my post? I guess technically I was off because I said they wouldn't know till may, when it was actually June. So 8 months?
    Your reference of May, yes. Could be even longer since it's June to Mid-August. And that's ONLY if either of the March champions require any rebalancing. Everyone seems to think they'll release a champ and automatically go back in and nerf them. That's not what Kabam is saying at all.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 20,083 ★★★★★
    Fredhorst23 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Fredhorst23 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Fredhorst23 said:

    Darkrider05 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Fabwizi said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Dklaw144 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Dklaw144 said:

    Absolutely ignoring the player base and failing to do the bare minimum to keep the game interesting yet again. We want buffs, not a rating system. We want champs to be balanced by the development team, we don’t want to do the work ourselves, unpaid. Congratulations, you’ve just lost a player who has been spending for over six years. This is the final straw.

    We're still getting champion buffs. Do you all actually read or just go off what people te you and then act like this?
    Yeah? Where were the buffs in January? February? Where’s the second buff in March?
    They just aren't happening but buffs are coming back in April. Go back and read the post again.
    The frequency is reducing, the intention of buffing is reducing, Excitement for buffs will reduce and thus in some way Excitement towards the game.

    It's more to do with the emotions towards buff programm more then anything.

    The thing is traffic to game may be high now but if interest declines the traffic decline will be exponential this happens to all games.

    There won't be a gradual decline but a rapid one, so every step is important.
    We're getting 2 buffs per month starting in April. That's the current cadence we're currently on. Tell me how that's being reduced?
    Before, it was guaranteed that one of the 2 buffs per month would be an overhaul, the other would alternate between Moderate and Value only buffs.
    As per the new buff system, it could be just 2 value only updates or only 2 moderate updates or a value update and a moderate update.
    I also thought it was weird that the post says that if a new champ doesn't need adjustment then they will use the extra time for an overhaul. But then that would mean that if the March champ doesn't need changing, they won't know till like May, which means they wouldn't be able to do an overhaul till then. Meanwhile they also said they'll be messing with vfx, which also takes a bunch of time. So it's possible (just guessing) that we wouldn't have a true full buff until summer, like 6 months from now.
    It's literally written in the post how a new champ released will be evaluated.

    Yeah I know, I read it. What are you referencing in my post? I guess technically I was off because I said they wouldn't know till may, when it was actually June. So 8 months?
    You're reference of May, yes. Could be even longer since it's June to Mid-August. And that's ONLY if either of the March champions require any rebalancing. Everyone seems to think they'll release a champ and automatically go back in and nerf them. That's not what Kabam is saying at all.
    I mean I totally agree with that, and the evaluation could easily go either way like with ht or Maw. I'm referencing the backlog buffs. They said they basically don't know how much time they'll have in a given month to do those and it will depend at least somewhat on the evaluation actively happening. So I'm just saying that the normal buff schedule will be slowed down, and the actual product produced may be less than what we've come to expect from the buff schedule. You simply cannot add more work to their pile without finding more work hours. And I'm not sure they have those available.
    Well they said in the post they are expanding their team as well. In both devs and Jnik from the community. Jnik will be consultation only but they are making that team bigger.

    They way the post reads is that if a newly released champ needs to be balanced, we'll likely just get a value update vs a moderate or full rework on a older champ. We're still getting 2 buffs per month starting in April.
  • Steam97Steam97 Posts: 86 ★
    Fredhorst23 said:

    Darkrider05 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Fabwizi said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Dklaw144 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Dklaw144 said:

    Absolutely ignoring the player base and failing to do the bare minimum to keep the game interesting yet again. We want buffs, not a rating system. We want champs to be balanced by the development team, we don’t want to do the work ourselves, unpaid. Congratulations, you’ve just lost a player who has been spending for over six years. This is the final straw.

    We're still getting champion buffs. Do you all actually read or just go off what people te you and then act like this?
    Yeah? Where were the buffs in January? February? Where’s the second buff in March?
    They just aren't happening but buffs are coming back in April. Go back and read the post again.
    The frequency is reducing, the intention of buffing is reducing, Excitement for buffs will reduce and thus in some way Excitement towards the game.

    It's more to do with the emotions towards buff programm more then anything.

    The thing is traffic to game may be high now but if interest declines the traffic decline will be exponential this happens to all games.

    There won't be a gradual decline but a rapid one, so every step is important.
    We're getting 2 buffs per month starting in April. That's the current cadence we're currently on. Tell me how that's being reduced?
    Before, it was guaranteed that one of the 2 buffs per month would be an overhaul, the other would alternate between Moderate and Value only buffs.
    As per the new buff system, it could be just 2 value only updates or only 2 moderate updates or a value update and a moderate update.
    I also thought it was weird that the post says that if a new champ doesn't need adjustment then they will use the extra time for an overhaul. But then that would mean that if the March champ doesn't need changing, they won't know till like May, which means they wouldn't be able to do an overhaul till then. Meanwhile they also said they'll be messing with vfx, which also takes a bunch of time. So it's possible (just guessing) that we wouldn't have a true full buff until summer, like 6 months from now.
    Kabam starts working on champion buffs months before, they probably already have a list of the buffs to make for the next 6 to 9 months and already have some work done but this list may vary depending on the work needed in rebalancing
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 20,083 ★★★★★
    Fredhorst23 said:

    Yeah, thing is that the schedule has already been disrupted right? So we aren't getting January (which we didn't last year so ok) we aren't getting February, so minus 2, March is 1 numbers update, so minus 1, April *should* be both a full and numbers update, and so should basically all the months until June when they evaluate the new data. However, they also said how they're spending time on the vfx for a bunch of characters (who one could say also need full reworks). So to my reading, it says "temper your expectations for buffs because we won't be doing more than a few full reworks this year because we want to do something else instead."

    There's no way to predict any type of buff that will happen after March. We could get 6 overhauls this year or none. We just don't know because we don't know what champs are being released and how they'll perform.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 20,083 ★★★★★
    Darkrider05 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Darkrider05 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Fabwizi said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Dklaw144 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Dklaw144 said:

    Absolutely ignoring the player base and failing to do the bare minimum to keep the game interesting yet again. We want buffs, not a rating system. We want champs to be balanced by the development team, we don’t want to do the work ourselves, unpaid. Congratulations, you’ve just lost a player who has been spending for over six years. This is the final straw.

    We're still getting champion buffs. Do you all actually read or just go off what people te you and then act like this?
    Yeah? Where were the buffs in January? February? Where’s the second buff in March?
    They just aren't happening but buffs are coming back in April. Go back and read the post again.
    The frequency is reducing, the intention of buffing is reducing, Excitement for buffs will reduce and thus in some way Excitement towards the game.

    It's more to do with the emotions towards buff programm more then anything.

    The thing is traffic to game may be high now but if interest declines the traffic decline will be exponential this happens to all games.

    There won't be a gradual decline but a rapid one, so every step is important.
    We're getting 2 buffs per month starting in April. That's the current cadence we're currently on. Tell me how that's being reduced?
    Before, it was guaranteed that one of the 2 buffs per month would be an overhaul, the other would alternate between Moderate and Value only buffs.
    As per the new buff system, it could be just 2 value only updates or only 2 moderate updates or a value update and a moderate update.
    They literally list all the types of buffs here, they just don't say which type it might be. if you read the post subjectively instead of how you want it to fit your argument to be mad, you'd realize how wrong you are about everything you said-

    Overhauls aren't going away. It says it right here.
    It literally says no guarantee on which type of buff it will be. I never said overhauls are gone. I said 1 guarantee overhaul per month is gone, which is correct.
    Edit: I just replied to your question about how the buff program has gotten worse, I wasn't mad at all.
    This is what I am responding to in your thread-

    Overhauls are still part of the program.
  • Joker1976Joker1976 Posts: 440 ★★
    In other words they are saying “what we promised we can’t deliver”. They basically can’t keep up with the demand. Went from 3 champs to 2…and now this.
    Again my solution in the first place ( and a simple one at that)..is at least pull all the fodder out of the 6* basic crystals and keep those useless champs in the game as defenders in monthly content or what have you.
  • Darkrider05Darkrider05 Posts: 273 ★★
    Darkrider05 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Darkrider05 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Darkrider05 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Fabwizi said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Dklaw144 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Dklaw144 said:

    Absolutely ignoring the player base and failing to do the bare minimum to keep the game interesting yet again. We want buffs, not a rating system. We want champs to be balanced by the development team, we don’t want to do the work ourselves, unpaid. Congratulations, you’ve just lost a player who has been spending for over six years. This is the final straw.

    We're still getting champion buffs. Do you all actually read or just go off what people te you and then act like this?
    Yeah? Where were the buffs in January? February? Where’s the second buff in March?
    They just aren't happening but buffs are coming back in April. Go back and read the post again.
    The frequency is reducing, the intention of buffing is reducing, Excitement for buffs will reduce and thus in some way Excitement towards the game.

    It's more to do with the emotions towards buff programm more then anything.

    The thing is traffic to game may be high now but if interest declines the traffic decline will be exponential this happens to all games.

    There won't be a gradual decline but a rapid one, so every step is important.
    We're getting 2 buffs per month starting in April. That's the current cadence we're currently on. Tell me how that's being reduced?
    Before, it was guaranteed that one of the 2 buffs per month would be an overhaul, the other would alternate between Moderate and Value only buffs.
    As per the new buff system, it could be just 2 value only updates or only 2 moderate updates or a value update and a moderate update.
    They literally list all the types of buffs here, they just don't say which type it might be. if you read the post subjectively instead of how you want it to fit your argument to be mad, you'd realize how wrong you are about everything you said-

    Overhauls aren't going away. It says it right here.
    It literally says no guarantee on which type of buff it will be. I never said overhauls are gone. I said 1 guarantee overhaul per month is gone, which is correct.
    Edit: I just replied to your question about how the buff program has gotten worse, I wasn't mad at all.
    This is what I am responding to in your thread-

    Overhauls are still part of the program.
    But one overhaul per month isn't guaranteed like before is literally what I said. Before there was no chance that we wouldn't get an overhaul in a month, now there is a possibility that we don't get one overhaul per month, I never said overhauls will never happen.
    Edit: Buff system followed till now had 2 combinations in a month,
    1. 1 overhaul and 1 moderate
    2. 1 overhaul and 1 value only

    The new buff system has following combinations,
    1. 1 overhaul and 1 moderate
    2. 1 overhaul and 1 value only
    3. 1 value only and 1 moderate
    4. 2 overhauls
    5. 2 value only
    6. 2 moderate
    4 of those combinations involve no overhauls whereas we were guaranteed 1 overhaul per month before this new system.
    I meant to say 3 of the combinations, sorry for the typo.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 20,083 ★★★★★
    Fredhorst23 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    ESF said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    SPARTAN0078 said:

    ESF said:

    How does a rating system make the game more fun to actually play?

    I am totally serious — how does a rating system make OG Iron Man more fun to select for a quest and actually use?

    No one wants a rating system. No one asked for it. This community has been begging for buffs to basically unusable characters for years — I know, because I was here at the beginning — and it seems the one thing that basically every single player actually wants for weak characters is the one thing that becomes so complicated, it’s like trying to win the lottery

    Bro really look at this possibility, once a tier rating is set , now gone would be the days of cab quest or content restricted to tags or class advantages u might need specific tier champs to open gates or even be eligible for particular quests

    Think abt it @LibertyPrimeV1 ,@Playerslasher , @ESF ,@Mokkie, @BigBlueOx
    Honestly that sounds terrifying. A quest where only rank 1 damage champs are allow 🤢
    That…would be…suboptimal
    Miike has already said that's not what the tier or rating system is for. It's strictly for the purpose of balancing and only applies to champs released after March. That means all of the other champs before won't be in that rating system because they won't be a part of the balancing program.
    Inaccurate, the rating system will apply to all champions.
    The rating system solely exist for the purpose of balancing new champs that are released. Miike already stated in this thread that no champ released before March will be subject to this balancing program.

    So what would the point be for them to put ratings to older champs if they aren't part of the rebalancing program?
This discussion has been closed.