Iron Fist buff (BOTH FISTS)

(Was meant for only classic but looks like Immortal has a bad sig so he needs it too)

Originally he was a MONSTER! Back in the day he was really great!

Before Masteries and between WP-Nerf and V12 he would slaughter anything in his path.

But now he needs something. I’m ALL FOR a new Chi mechanic that charges when he lands crits:


Crits give him 4% Chi
Holding a heavy attack grants him 2% Chi twice a second
Holding a block gives him 1% Chi per second

Gains him up to 50% physical resistance based on Chi Stored. Additionally when reaching 100% He enters IRON FIST mode.

In Iron Fist mode his attack doubles and all attacks are crits. His Chi slowly drains at 4% per second and all attacks lower it by 2%

***When struck in Iron Fist mode he instantly loses the Iron Fist!***

ALL Chi gained is halved.
Once he goes below 60% Chi in Iron Fost mode he can’t gain anymore Chi until he reaches 0 again.

When leaving Iron Fist mode he gains True Strike for 12 seconds

Comments

  • Vision_41Vision_41 Posts: 710
    Quite Interesting!
  • Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 1,614
    I want to give him a way of having some sort of “not dying when the wind blows” as he’s a very frail champion

    Giving him a medium window of SUPER BURST damage would also help him in that regard as the less time a fight takes the less damage he gets, simple!

    I’ve also been baffled he doesn’t have ANY true strike.

    The idea is as his Chi builds his body is more primed to take a punch. Once it reaches a certain point he uses it all for offense.


    ALTERNATIVE: I would be willing to drop the 100% crit rate if he still gains the same amount of Chi. He’d still get a massive attack boost but lose a lot of crit damage this way. However the longer burn without a more punishing drain between combos would make up for it.
  • Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 1,614
    Actually I’m more open to him keeping both but just being unable to gain Chi while in Iron Fist mode. This way he keeps all his damage but has to be careful with his timing and use. He wouldn’t lose ANYTHING if you played him the same way after having this added but if you aligned your chakras and times it well it could easily make his damage go from “nice!” to “WHOOOOO!!!”
  • First of all, hell of a lot of good in these ideas. I'm managing a thread about multiple champion refit ideas - could I maybe expand a bit on some of your notions here, to round out an Iron Fist idea I had? I think I could find a happy middle between the two.
  • Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 1,614
    StrayPool wrote: »
    First of all, hell of a lot of good in these ideas. I'm managing a thread about multiple champion refit ideas - could I maybe expand a bit on some of your notions here, to round out an Iron Fist idea I had? I think I could find a happy middle between the two.

    Sure. Care to run it by me first though?
  • The overall notion of a Chi Mode is novel and appealing - and my focuses for his refit involved some more defensive ideas. One of the things I'm trying to do is mentally balance all of my ideas against the vast roster of the contest; I figure, slim as the odds are, keeping folks from being overpowered might help it get taken into account. So I'm thinking of scaling down your suggestions but keeping the overall spirit of the Chi idea, having it lead to a length of True Strike and possible one of three additional effects. To say more would dismantle the concept of making my own posts though.
  • Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 1,614
    StrayPool wrote: »
    The overall notion of a Chi Mode is novel and appealing - and my focuses for his refit involved some more defensive ideas. One of the things I'm trying to do is mentally balance all of my ideas against the vast roster of the contest; I figure, slim as the odds are, keeping folks from being overpowered might help it get taken into account. So I'm thinking of scaling down your suggestions but keeping the overall spirit of the Chi idea, having it lead to a length of True Strike and possible one of three additional effects. To say more would dismantle the concept of making my own posts though.

    I’d like to keep True Strike and Physical resistance. Also I’m willing to take 50% attack up and 33% boosted crit rate. Not quite over powered but far from weak
  • SCARESCARE Posts: 149
    they need to buff carnage as well lol
  • Well, I tried - seems we won't quite see eye-to-eye, so I'll simply leave your ideas be and try to find my own set of potential refits. Best of luck to us both.
  • very interesting
  • MagrailothosMagrailothos Posts: 1,355
    Let's keep talking about Iron Fist and his need for a buff. I like some sort of proper Chi mechanic; but I don't plan to split hairs on the specifics other than to comment on the physical resistance:

    1 - Energy resistance would be more in keeping with his mystic nature.
    2 - Alternately, Chi could reduce debuff duration or a very low-level (OML-style) regeneration.
    3 - Another alternative would be an increase in his blocking ability and critical rate, to reflect his rising focus.

    As you touch on, clearly he can't simply accumulate Chi relentlessly - I'd probably even say each hit costs him 10% Chi or more, to retain his Glass cannon nature.

    Nice work, though.
  • Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 1,614
    Iron Fist 2.0

    Chi accumulates from Holding Block and Heavy (up to 100% Chi similar to adorn and P99)

    Permanent Physical resistance Passive 30% but can be removed if the enemy lands 5 hits in a row. If removed it returns at 15% then 5% then it’s just gone.

    Chi: chi is a passive ability that has few offensive abilities.

    Based on current Chi level:
    •Up to 80% Energy Resistance
    •Enemy gains up to 50% less energy from attacks (passive Enervate)

    When at 100% Chi:
    Dash Back and Hold Block for 1.5 seconds AND activate a dash…
    IRON FIST:
    Become unstoppable and invincible for the duration of the dash and gain 10 Iron Fist Charges.

    Your next ten hits are critical and deal 20% more damage. All attacks consume and iron fist charge if available. Getting hit will REMOVE all IF charges

    When losing all IF charges gain a True Strike passive until hit again

    (More defensive, focusing on still not getting hit mostly. If you can survive with the MUCH needed bulk then you can charge in for extra damage. Getting hit will ruin your day making IF not we’ll suited for practicing intercepts)
  • Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 1,614
    rwhack wrote: »
    He’s terrible.

    Hence the buff discussion
  • Mr_Otter wrote: »
    (Was meant for only classic but looks like Immortal has a bad sig so he needs it too)

    Originally he was a MONSTER! Back in the day he was really great!

    Before Masteries and between WP-Nerf and V12 he would slaughter anything in his path.

    But now he needs something. I’m ALL FOR a new Chi mechanic that charges when he lands crits:


    Crits give him 4% Chi
    Holding a heavy attack grants him 2% Chi twice a second
    Holding a block gives him 1% Chi per second

    Gains him up to 50% physical resistance based on Chi Stored. Additionally when reaching 100% He enters IRON FIST mode.

    In Iron Fist mode his attack doubles and all attacks are crits. His Chi slowly drains at 4% per second and all attacks lower it by 2%

    ***When struck in Iron Fist mode he instantly loses the Iron Fist!***

    ALL Chi gained is halved.
    Once he goes below 60% Chi in Iron Fost mode he can’t gain anymore Chi until he reaches 0 again.

    When leaving Iron Fist mode he gains True Strike for 12 seconds

    TOTALLY AGREE. Iron Fist really needs a good buff
  • DLegendDLegend Posts: 746
    edited January 12
    I like the idea!

    How about, whenever he inflicts armor break, he drains a certain amount of power?

    He's mystic anyway, so it would make sense for him to have some kind of power control ability.
  • N0L1M1TSN0L1M1TS Posts: 21
    edited January 12
    Iron Fist doesn’t need a buff. He already hits like a Mack truck. If that’s not enough for you, invest in the Despair and Inequity Masteries. Fist stacks armor breaks like they are going out of style. At max, with Despair, each armor break applies -15% healing and regeneration; and Inequity applies -6% to the enemy’s attack (up to 36%). It’s not difficult to stack several armor breaks during a fight, so Fist can cripple an enemy in short order.

    Just put him on a team that gives him either armor (as he has none) or Perfect Block increases.

    He’ll do just fine.
  • N0L1M1TSN0L1M1TS Posts: 21
    Here’s a screen cap of a duel from a friend of mine using his 5/50 Awakened 4* (signature 80) Iron Fist against a 3/45 Awakened 5* (signature 87) classic Black Panther.

    If you utilize your abilities, signatures, masteries, and synergies together the right way, you can get a whole lot more out of your champs.

    6azz3csq2eux.png
  • AgentOfSHIELDAgentOfSHIELD Posts: 49
    edited January 12
    And here's an actual glass cannon taking him out in 30% less hits considering his lower hp pool and lack of armor he should be doing more not less damage than captain marvel
    gllkch7fhi87.png
  • Speeds80Speeds80 Posts: 1,029
    edited January 12
    Yeah he's ****, he was a legend run contender before they nerfed Crits so hard with 12.0, definitely needs a buff, I have immortal and original in 4 star, both r3, and him in 5*, he has zero use apart from arena grinds
  • DLegendDLegend Posts: 746
    edited January 12
    N0L1M1TS wrote: »
    Here’s a screen cap of a duel from a friend of mine using his 5/50 Awakened 4* (signature 80) Iron Fist against a 3/45 Awakened 5* (signature 87) classic Black Panther.

    If you utilize your abilities, signatures, masteries, and synergies together the right way, you can get a whole lot more out of your champs.

    6azz3csq2eux.png

    He still needs a buff. Even a 4* 3/30 Quake can defeat that BP in 0 hits.
  • N0L1M1TSN0L1M1TS Posts: 21
    edited January 13
    Hey, your mileage may very; however, your personal experience does not invalidate the fact that it can be done. As it stands, Fist’s base attack is still in the top 10–15 of all champs. Buffing him to compensate for his deficiency in defense will only make him overpowered, IMO. As far as “needing” two other champs to make him a good hero is concerned, that was a suggestion to get the most bang for your buck.
  • Speeds80Speeds80 Posts: 1,029
    edited January 13
    He's the worst mystic hands down, he has zero utility, and zero armour, he was designed to be a glass cannon, but he is no longer a cannon since the armour break and crit nerfs at 12.0. There are dozens of champs with more attack power when you factor in their utilities and specials
    I just checked and I actually haven't even bothered r3ing my 4*. He is not worth the single Alpha catalyst. I could make the argument you make about she hulk or spidergwen being useful. He is not really useful. He once was very good. He could use a buff
  • N0L1M1TSN0L1M1TS Posts: 21
    edited January 13
    @AgentOfSHIELD

    Out of curiosity, how many specials were used with Ms. Marvel in that fight?

    Also, in addition to being in the top 10-15 champs in terms of base attack, IF has the second highest base Crit rate (behind Symbiote Spidey) and third highest base Crit Damage rate (behind Vulture, Stark Spidey, and Symbiote Spidey) among playable champs.

    No, he doesn’t enjoy special damage. Yes, he’s lacking for defensive capabilities. However, ways already exist in-game to supplement these deficiencies.

    Sure, I’d love to have my IF buffed, but I don’t think that it’s necessary to make him a playable champ.
  • Speeds80Speeds80 Posts: 1,029
    That's 32 hits with a 4/40 gamora, just using combo and l1. I have maxed deep wounds, but apart from that a full defensive build, no glass cannon and full willpower
    Ps that's gamora generally considered a mediocre champ

    zqtle4nrwb43.png
    garnr8u0v68p.png
  • N0L1M1TSN0L1M1TS Posts: 21
    Speeds80 wrote: »
    That's 32 hits with a 4/40 gamora, just using combo and l1. I have maxed deep wounds, but apart from that a full defensive build, no glass cannon and full willpower
    Ps that's gamora generally considered a mediocre champ

    Okay.

    Gamora’s L1 has a 100% crit rate. All of her attacks have a chance to increase her Crit Damage rate. Her special attacks have a HUGE chance of dealing significant bleed damage, and you said you have Deep Wounds maxed out. This is without even taking into consideration the massive amount of critical damage that she has a chance to deal with her signature ability. I’m not sure what that proves, as if this is not a case of apples vs oranges, I don’t know what is.

    It was stated that pre-version 12, Iron Fist “was a legend run contender,” but he isn’t anymore. It was also said that he “would slaughter anything in his path.”

    V12 was released March 1, 2017. Here are a couple of videos post-3/1/17 that show what he can currently do. One is with the Immortal version against the final boss of the event quest where Iceman was introduced. The other is the aforementioned fight against LoL Rulk. Yes, he ultimately loses that fight, but based upon his performance, I don’t know how much more you could possibly want, unless it’s for every champ to be god-tier, which would devalue the existing god-tier champs.




  • Speeds80Speeds80 Posts: 1,029
    It's quite logical to me, if an r5 iron fist is no better than an r4 mediocre champ (gamora) at killing then he probably needs a buff, he's not in mid range, he's not mediocre, he's bad, and could use said buff. Someone raised a good point in another discussion that the main nerf done at 12.0 was limiting armour break, they did it to thor, but then when they unnerfed him
    His armour break works again...remember how terrible he was after first nerf, but then we kicked up such a fuss that they unnerfed him back to Demi god tier, iron fist was top Range of Demi god tier, bordering on god tier, he's a glass cannon, no armour low health, the problem is there are dozens of champs in the game with higher damage output than him when you factor in specials and look at the most accurate numbers damage over Time, most of those champs also have armour or utility, he has nothing else going for him so really to be any use in the game he needs a buff. Those videos show people using him
    Well, the issue is they could do that thing with 20 other champs at his level and if they took a punch would survive a lot better than him, let alone have healing (Hyperion, Angela, nebula, sw, ds, blade, x23, guillotine are all pretty much up there with that much damage output plus have healing ) and thats just naming one utility
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