**RESOLVED ISSUE WITH SIDE QUEST KEYS**
The game team has resolved this issue. Keys will be distributed via in-game messages and the quest timer will be extended.
More information and timeline here.
*This includes currently unclaimable keys as well*
**WINTER OF WOE - BONUS OBJECTIVE POINT**
As previously announced, the team will be distributing an additional point toward milestones to anyone who completed the Absorbing Man fight in the first step of the Winter of Woe.
This point will be distributed at a later time as it requires the team to pull and analyze data.
The timeline has not been set, but work has started.

5.3.6 Refill farm change

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Comments

  • PoolBoyRoyPoolBoyRoy Posts: 48
    Honestly this change makes no sense, the people who will be most affected are the free to play grinders that probably spend the most time playing this game. For me, this quest meant that even if there are all these input bugs while im trying to complete hard content, I could still get it done by putting in the time and farming out refills and revives. Very disappointed in this change and expect to see more of an explanation than what was given.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,328 Guardian
    thepiggy said:

    Was 5.3.6 really breaking the game? If yes, please nerf ROL and all the revives in Act 3 too because they're just as bad if not worse.

    I never farmed that map, but my suspicion is that the problem with the energy refills is that they cost less energy to acquire on average than they provided. That's an infinitely escalating return on investment, which makes it categorically different from other potion farming.

    Quest energy is a constraint, and it is a constraint that even most farming activities have to honor. But a farming activity that can generate infinite energy is very problematic, because it can be subsequently used to farm everything else without limit as well.

    It is probably not a coincidence that this is being looked at around the same time Battlegrounds is being tested. Battlegrounds requires quest energy, and if quest energy can be infinitely farmed that avenue would become dramatically more valuable when Battlegrounds goes live.

    Also, to players saying not to talk about these farming opportunities: the devs actually see the game data. There's no way to hide a farm, because even Kabam doesn't need to have their hands held and told to wonder why a player might love Act 5 so much they are willing to run it a thousand times.
  • Virtual_PhantomVirtual_Phantom Posts: 12
    DNA3000 said:

    thepiggy said:

    Was 5.3.6 really breaking the game? If yes, please nerf ROL and all the revives in Act 3 too because they're just as bad if not worse.

    I never farmed that map, but my suspicion is that the problem with the energy refills is that they cost less energy to acquire on average than they provided. That's an infinitely escalating return on investment, which makes it categorically different from other potion farming.

    Quest energy is a constraint, and it is a constraint that even most farming activities have to honor. But a farming activity that can generate infinite energy is very problematic, because it can be subsequently used to farm everything else without limit as well.

    It is probably not a coincidence that this is being looked at around the same time Battlegrounds is being tested. Battlegrounds requires quest energy, and if quest energy can be infinitely farmed that avenue would become dramatically more valuable when Battlegrounds goes live.

    Also, to players saying not to talk about these farming opportunities: the devs actually see the game data. There's no way to hide a farm, because even Kabam doesn't need to have their hands held and told to wonder why a player might love Act 5 so much they are willing to run it a thousand times.
    I understand this, and although you a valid point, it doesn't change that this quest takes real time and effort to complete to earn these items and store them. As I'm sure some will abuse, most just use to store up just enough to complete monthly content when they have the ability to do it.
  • VendemiaireVendemiaire Posts: 2,178 ★★★★★
    edited April 2022

    Typhoon said:

    Typhoon said:

    I also love how it was stated that they planned to get this out next month and planned to announce it, and May is in 4 days. Really holding onto information until the last minute. Thanks for the heads up!

    That's how they always operate. They release the information when the monthly changes are posted.
    Except they didn't operate like that this time, did they?

    Didn't you just rack up like 300 disagrees from the other thread from telling people they're wrong for assuming Kabam changed things?

    Back for more?
    I have no control over how people react.
    What I said was wait for actual information before assuming.
    Why is this clown here? Give me a break. :D
    If farming for revives is regulated then farming for dopamine to increase post count should be regulated too.
    DNA3000 said:

    thepiggy said:

    Was 5.3.6 really breaking the game? If yes, please nerf ROL and all the revives in Act 3 too because they're just as bad if not worse.

    I never farmed that map, but my suspicion is that the problem with the energy refills is that they cost less energy to acquire on average than they provided. That's an infinitely escalating return on investment, which makes it categorically different from other potion farming.

    Quest energy is a constraint, and it is a constraint that even most farming activities have to honor. But a farming activity that can generate infinite energy is very problematic, because it can be subsequently used to farm everything else without limit as well.

    It is probably not a coincidence that this is being looked at around the same time Battlegrounds is being tested. Battlegrounds requires quest energy, and if quest energy can be infinitely farmed that avenue would become dramatically more valuable when Battlegrounds goes live.

    Also, to players saying not to talk about these farming opportunities: the devs actually see the game data. There's no way to hide a farm, because even Kabam doesn't need to have their hands held and told to wonder why a player might love Act 5 so much they are willing to run it a thousand times.
    Makes sense especially once Battlegrounds is up.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,116 ★★★★★
    edited April 2022

    Typhoon said:

    Typhoon said:

    I also love how it was stated that they planned to get this out next month and planned to announce it, and May is in 4 days. Really holding onto information until the last minute. Thanks for the heads up!

    That's how they always operate. They release the information when the monthly changes are posted.
    Except they didn't operate like that this time, did they?

    Didn't you just rack up like 300 disagrees from the other thread from telling people they're wrong for assuming Kabam changed things?

    Back for more?
    I have no control over how people react.
    What I said was wait for actual information before assuming.
    Why is this clown here? Give me a break. :D
    If farming for revives is regulated then farming for dopamine to increase post count should be regulated too.
    DNA3000 said:

    thepiggy said:

    Was 5.3.6 really breaking the game? If yes, please nerf ROL and all the revives in Act 3 too because they're just as bad if not worse.

    I never farmed that map, but my suspicion is that the problem with the energy refills is that they cost less energy to acquire on average than they provided. That's an infinitely escalating return on investment, which makes it categorically different from other potion farming.

    Quest energy is a constraint, and it is a constraint that even most farming activities have to honor. But a farming activity that can generate infinite energy is very problematic, because it can be subsequently used to farm everything else without limit as well.

    It is probably not a coincidence that this is being looked at around the same time Battlegrounds is being tested. Battlegrounds requires quest energy, and if quest energy can be infinitely farmed that avenue would become dramatically more valuable when Battlegrounds goes live.

    Also, to players saying not to talk about these farming opportunities: the devs actually see the game data. There's no way to hide a farm, because even Kabam doesn't need to have their hands held and told to wonder why a player might love Act 5 so much they are willing to run it a thousand times.
    Makes sense especially once Battlegrounds is up.
    One could say the same for repeated comments against me on a personal level, and yet they still keep coming.
    When my comments are misconstrued, I'm going to clarify. I have a high tolerance for most things. Misrepresentation is not one of them.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,328 Guardian
    thepiggy said:

    DNA3000 said:

    thepiggy said:

    Was 5.3.6 really breaking the game? If yes, please nerf ROL and all the revives in Act 3 too because they're just as bad if not worse.

    I never farmed that map, but my suspicion is that the problem with the energy refills is that they cost less energy to acquire on average than they provided. That's an infinitely escalating return on investment, which makes it categorically different from other potion farming.

    Quest energy is a constraint, and it is a constraint that even most farming activities have to honor. But a farming activity that can generate infinite energy is very problematic, because it can be subsequently used to farm everything else without limit as well.

    It is probably not a coincidence that this is being looked at around the same time Battlegrounds is being tested. Battlegrounds requires quest energy, and if quest energy can be infinitely farmed that avenue would become dramatically more valuable when Battlegrounds goes live.

    Also, to players saying not to talk about these farming opportunities: the devs actually see the game data. There's no way to hide a farm, because even Kabam doesn't need to have their hands held and told to wonder why a player might love Act 5 so much they are willing to run it a thousand times.
    Can't they the lower the max drop from 2 to 1? It would solve the escalating ROI. And to be honest, Battlegrounds is probably not viable for me anyway because of mastery costs. Doesn't matter how many refills are in the stash if the limiting constraint are mastery swaps that I'll only do during seasons.
    It could be tuned that way in theory, but there’s two problems. First, because it’s RNG, it wouldn’t be *obvious* that happened until someone ran it enough times to realize they were not getting enough back, and then they’d complain they got cheated. You could try to explain, but everyone doesn’t read those kinds of announcements nor would they necessarily understand precisely what was being said in such an announcement. You’d have this grey period where people would continue to farm the map hoping their luck would change, then eventually believe they got burned.

    The second problem is tuning takes time, and it’s time they might not have wanted to spend. These resource farms are not there deliberately, they are things the devs feel are not sufficiently harmful to be worth taking away. But when they become a problem, the option to simply nerf them quickly (and harshly) is always an option. None of them are intended to be seen as dependable resources.

    Plus, if it was tuned that way then the reason to farm it in the first place would be largely neutralized. Net positive energy is a problem, but net negative energy is probably useless to the players. And again, because RNG is a factor, it could take time for players to be convinced the return was now net negative, which is actually bad for players: it would be a kind of tease.

    Every game like this has these grey area resource farms where the players agree not to abuse them and the devs agree to pretend they don’t exist. But when a problem does come up, they aren’t usually balanced like normal rewards, because they aren’t normal rewards. They tend to get addressed by the most expedient means. And however blunt and harsh the change was, it solves both problems with certainty. There’s no question the issue is gone, and there’s no question no one will be confused about what was changed immediately.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 8,636 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    thepiggy said:

    Was 5.3.6 really breaking the game? If yes, please nerf ROL and all the revives in Act 3 too because they're just as bad if not worse.

    I never farmed that map, but my suspicion is that the problem with the energy refills is that they cost less energy to acquire on average than they provided. That's an infinitely escalating return on investment, which makes it categorically different from other potion farming.

    Quest energy is a constraint, and it is a constraint that even most farming activities have to honor. But a farming activity that can generate infinite energy is very problematic, because it can be subsequently used to farm everything else without limit as well.

    It is probably not a coincidence that this is being looked at around the same time Battlegrounds is being tested. Battlegrounds requires quest energy, and if quest energy can be infinitely farmed that avenue would become dramatically more valuable when Battlegrounds goes live.

    Also, to players saying not to talk about these farming opportunities: the devs actually see the game data. There's no way to hide a farm, because even Kabam doesn't need to have their hands held and told to wonder why a player might love Act 5 so much they are willing to run it a thousand times.
    I agree that there is no way to hide a farm, but that doesn't mean that something brought to the forefront via discussion doesn't get addressed sooner than it would have been. The act 1 revive farm was shut down immediately after it was posted on the forum. Maybe it was coincidence, but probably it was something that wasn't being exploited enough to warrant fixing it, but becoming more widely known made it a priority.
  • RasiloverRasilover Posts: 1,423 ★★★★
    Kabam just don't want us to have nice things :(
  • L0TUS_MANTISL0TUS_MANTIS Posts: 220 ★★
    I don't know how these things come to exist but I always assumed kabam knowingly created these farms as a thing for the community to find and share amongst eachother. And then you have a kind of fun "secret" place to earn some extra items to help with questing.

    Maybe they didn't expect it to get this widespread and people to "abuse" it at these levels?

    I dunno but the nerf bums me out because it was a fun thing I actually enjoyed doing at the end of the month if I had extra energy. It even got me interested again in doing the daily catalyst quests to rank up my 2-4 star champs. With the nerf I guess my new champs will just collect dust again at rank 1.
  • AverageDesiAverageDesi Posts: 5,260 ★★★★★
    Is it that the reason this farm was changed was due to changing act 5 energy from 3 to 2? If the farm had stayed same then it definitely would have been a bit broken . When it was 3 it was not as broken
  • AverageDesiAverageDesi Posts: 5,260 ★★★★★
    Is this post muted?
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