With that much of requirement to enter (45 units per champion!!) or 18h waiting time + 30 units every 4 matches-, people will have to wait ~10min to find a match (after the first week or two), so good luck collection data (and UNITS) in this BETA trial. (not to mention this lackluster store)
Why does this 18 hour number keep coming up? There is no 18 hour timer. A 6 hour timer starts ticking once your champion is fully depleted of their 3 charges. At that time, you can either wait 6 hours or pay 45 units to get all 3 charges back on that champion.
Personally, I think that a possible fix for this is two fold: first, increase the total number of charges on a champion to 5. Second, give each charge its own timer that can run concurrently. So if I use a champion at 2pm, and again at 2:30pm, and then I put the game down to do other things, I will get a charge back at 8pm and another at 8:30pm.
I really don’t like that the timer doesn’t start until the champion is fully depleted, that means you eventually *have to* wait the full six hours. You can’t play a couple today, a couple tomorrow, and always have your full deck. Eventually, your champion will run out of charge, even if you only use them once per day.
I’m thinking about a player who is busy during the week, but has the time to play a fair bit on weekends. They played a couple rounds during the week, but now they’ve got time to really sink their teeth into this mode but can’t because a bunch of their champions are down to just one charge because they used them a couple times several days ago. That’s not a good feeling. That’s not fun. Champions should start to recharge prior to depletion.
I think people are saying 18 hours because it makes it sound like 6 hours per charge. So 1 charge is 6 and the full 3 is 18. At least that's my assumption
Yeah, that’s the math they’re doing, but it’s a full recharge after the 6 hours. It’s not 1 charge per interval, it’s the full 3.
It makes it confusing based on the way its worded. It says 45 units for a full recharge and champions charges replenish on a 6hr timer and not all charges are replenished after 6hrs.
Can't wait to go against modders and then have to pay to recharge my champs to face more modders for a lackluster store.
You don't have to do it if you don't want to. If you don't think the rewards are worth your time, there's plenty of other things to do in-game right now, and the first part of the Eternity of Pain starts next week too.
The fact you don't seem to recognize this as a legit consern for us, but just brush it off with a "If you don't think the rewards are worth your time" is honestly shocking. Refreshing champs will cost us units, units earned by either paying for them, or spending time in arenas. And if we face modders we are basically throwing money out the window, and all you say is a crappy comment about it in this manner is just insulting. Kabams way of communicating with it's playerbase is far worse then any other gamecompany I've seen.
They specified that they were aware of the unsavory behavior and are working on it. If it was as easy as stopping it at the push of a button, I'm sure that button would be worn out.
I'm not saying it's easy, I'm saying that until they find a way to deal with it then the feature shouldn't have an actual cost to it
How can they test cost adjustments without them?
Maybe cost adjustment isnt what they should focus on yet. And it still doesn't condone the condescending tone in their replies on the forum.
Cost adjustment is part of what they're trying to determine. I think we've established that the game mode is not going to be free. The question is what limits to set it at in order to maintain the balance of how much of a focus of the game it's intended to be. As for the comment, I'm sorry but I disagree. It wasn't condescending. It was a simple statement that people don't have to do it if it's not what they like. I'd like to know how else that could be worded without being misleading.
I know enough about communication, and it really perturbs me when it's being challenged for no reason. People take issue when it's too ambiguous, but yet they take issue when it's direct. There's a difference between someone being disrespectful, and just not appreciating the outcome. It has nothing to do with who said it. There was no malice meant by the comment. It's a logical statement. People are free to pass on this round if they don't agree with the specifics. They're also free to communicate why they won't be participating. Of all the talk about transparency around here, the least we can do is respect it when it's given.
With that much of requirement to enter (45 units per champion!!) or 18h waiting time + 30 units every 4 matches-, people will have to wait ~10min to find a match (after the first week or two), so good luck collection data (and UNITS) in this BETA trial. (not to mention this lackluster store)
Why does this 18 hour number keep coming up? There is no 18 hour timer. A 6 hour timer starts ticking once your champion is fully depleted of their 3 charges. At that time, you can either wait 6 hours or pay 45 units to get all 3 charges back on that champion.
Personally, I think that a possible fix for this is two fold: first, increase the total number of charges on a champion to 5. Second, give each charge its own timer that can run concurrently. So if I use a champion at 2pm, and again at 2:30pm, and then I put the game down to do other things, I will get a charge back at 8pm and another at 8:30pm.
I really don’t like that the timer doesn’t start until the champion is fully depleted, that means you eventually *have to* wait the full six hours. You can’t play a couple today, a couple tomorrow, and always have your full deck. Eventually, your champion will run out of charge, even if you only use them once per day.
I’m thinking about a player who is busy during the week, but has the time to play a fair bit on weekends. They played a couple rounds during the week, but now they’ve got time to really sink their teeth into this mode but can’t because a bunch of their champions are down to just one charge because they used them a couple times several days ago. That’s not a good feeling. That’s not fun. Champions should start to recharge prior to depletion.
I think people are saying 18 hours because it makes it sound like 6 hours per charge. So 1 charge is 6 and the full 3 is 18. At least that's my assumption
Yeah, that’s the math they’re doing, but it’s a full recharge after the 6 hours. It’s not 1 charge per interval, it’s the full 3.
It makes it confusing based on the way its worded. It says 45 units for a full recharge and champions charges replenish on a 6hr timer and not all charges are replenished after 6hrs.
Hmmm, upon a closer look I think you may be right. It’s written weirdly, so it *might* still be what I read it as, but I didn’t even like that. If it is as you and others are reading it, that’s downright miserable. A 6 hour non-concurrent timer is absolutely awful.
I was ok testing this beta for you since I was getting full energy refills in the last beta, now you are charging me and others : 1- Mastery change ~50 units, another 50 to return it back=~100 2- Energy refills ~8.5 =250 units (40 matches x 15 energy=600 energy) 3- Champion recharge, 45 EACH!! at least 450 units (BTW, using the champion 2 times won't start the timer, only after using him/her 3 times the timer start) 4- time ~20min per match (you need 20 for max efficient rewards, with 50/50 win rate =40 match =13h) 800 units (~30$)
to get: 5k Trophy Tokens, which can get you: 12 6* sig generic sig stones OR 100 5* generic sig stones OR 7k 6*shards + 2k 5*shards OR 30% t5cc selector
I know enough about communication, and it really perturbs me when it's being challenged for no reason. People take issue when it's too ambiguous, but yet they take issue when it's direct. There's a difference between someone being disrespectful, and just not appreciating the outcome. It has nothing to do with who said it. There was no malice meant by the comment. It's a logical statement. People are free to pass on this round if they don't agree with the specifics. They're also free to communicate why they won't be participating. Of all the talk about transparency around here, the least we can do is respect it when it's given.
I get the Kabam needs to find a way to monetise the game mode, but you can’t reasonably expect this mode to reach its potential if in a the beta you have to: -pay 15 energy every fight -pay 45 units to refresh a champ -have no recourse to have energy or points awarded to you if coming up against modders/cheaters Honestly I’ve enjoyed the beta so far. It’s been a really enjoyable mode, but if there’s all these hoops that we need to jump through, personally I don’t really see me playing it.
And it really is a legitimate question, to want to know what the compensation is for us players who are cheated by modders. Do we get the resources and points used back? Other games are able to detect cheaters in real time, granted these might not be mobile games. Unless we can get can real time detection the mode won’t have much credibility.
The idea of these rewards and store is actually really nice. It’s just a beta. Be happy you’re getting anything. Sure I expect more at least for TB/Paragon when the final version is released but this store is actually really well done. Give them time to get tokens and such right
Can't wait to go against modders and then have to pay to recharge my champs to face more modders for a lackluster store.
You don't have to do it if you don't want to. If you don't think the rewards are worth your time, there's plenty of other things to do in-game right now, and the first part of the Eternity of Pain starts next week too.
How do you even come close to considering this as an appropriate response regarding modders and cheating in this new game mode?
Especially considering you’ve just added a potential unit cost on top of the already existing energy cost.
Maintaining “integrity of the game” is constantly thrown around here, yet this new game mode is riddled with cheaters, and your best response is, “go play something else”.
Beta or not, this needs to be addressed.
I see that I did miss an important part of this comment, and that's by bad. We did make a pretty lengthy part of the post dedicated to us ramping up our enforcement against cheating and modders though, and we're going to continue to work at that. Unfortunately, we haven''t been where we want to be so far, but we're going to continue to refine the ways in which we catch and punish this behaviour, even during this Beta.
This game mode is going to be a very, very, casual game mode, it feels very pay to enter game mode. There are so many restrictions to even have a chance to play it, not even compete or have fun at it, I understand Kabam needs to make money, but you should focus first in getting the players then converting them into customers....
While I understand that they can not comment on specific details on how they are working on it, it would be nice to know something to actually support they've done something and are not just working on it.
They banned a bunch of people in the last beta, and a bunch of people in the previous beta. Beyond that, Kabam is not going to comment on who they ban, how they detect them, where they are in their detection process, or what their eventual goal is for when the mode goes live, nor should they as this would only give information to the people attempting to cheat in the mode (not that the cheaters appear to have a ton of brain cells to devote to counter-intelligence at the moment, but that could change).
This game mode is going to be a very, very, casual game mode, it feels very pay to enter game mode. There are so many restrictions to even have a chance to play it, not even compete or have fun at it, I understand Kabam needs to make money, but you should focus first in getting the players then converting them into customers....
I'm not saying the mode is perfect, but this is also wildly different from my impression. I'm presuming that the live BG store is going to be better than the beta test store, which I think is a reasonable assumption. And the beta store is already worth my time.
Everyone wants or needs different things, but right now I could use a lot of T2A. The store allows up to 2.5 T2A to be purchased per week (5 x 50% per week), which is ten total across the entire four weeks. To get that I would need to average about twenty matches per week assuming a 50% win rate, which would give me 2500 trophies per week assuming I do no more than ten matches per day to maximize the 48 hour milestones. Let's say four matches per day across five days per week. That's about 40 minutes of matches in one day at an energy cost of 60 energy - less than one full bar of energy at level 60. The probability of exhausting a champ at that pace is pretty low, and if I do the matches in groups of two separated by six hours there's zero chance.
That's about thirteen and a half hours of playtime and a relatively manageable amount of energy burned across four weeks to get ten T2A, with no other unit or cash costs associated. Where else can I get ten T2A in fourteen hours of gameplay? This would also burn about 1200 energy across four weeks, which is about the amount of energy someone would burn auto-fighting through heroic exploration. It is about five days of energy. This would be burned about 60 energy at a time on alternating days, which is about a quarter of my energy budget for the day, every other day. That's not a very large energy burn rate.
And that's the return on investment during the beta test.
While I understand that they can not comment on specific details on how they are working on it, it would be nice to know something to actually support they've done something and are not just working on it.
They banned a bunch of people in the last beta, and a bunch of people in the previous beta. Beyond that, Kabam is not going to comment on who they ban, how they detect them, where they are in their detection process, or what their eventual goal is for when the mode goes live, nor should they as this would only give information to the people attempting to cheat in the mode (not that the cheaters appear to have a ton of brain cells to devote to counter-intelligence at the moment, but that could change).
I didn't want to know who is banned, but that they actually took action. I never saw anything mentioning anyone got banned. Only thing I saw was people voicing complaints about this subject and kabam telling them to report it. What you just said is the type of information I was looking for. Similar to how they'd mentioned that they did indeed take action during important events or for leaderboards. If they did mention that in a post somewhere and I missed it, then that's my bad, but I haven't seen it which is why it all didn't sit with me well.
It's gonna be almost impossible to get that many wins w/o recharging. Really disappointing.
30 wins a week is 4 a day, then two at the end.
Let’s say you only had 6 champions in your deck. Clearly you have 30, but say you use the same 6 every fight. That means you can do 3 matches every 6 hours.
If you did your 12 matches a day then you’d only need a win rate of 33% to get 4 wins a day. And remember that you have 30 champions in your deck. If you’re only using 6 then I’d advise you diversify.
With a full deck of 30, and considering you can win the first 2 rounds (hence only taking energy of 4 of your champions), you can see how with a full deck you can get 10 or so matches in one 6 hour period without even worrying about the reset.
With an 18 hour refresh, that's basically 3-5 matches a day w/o having to refresh. Gonna have to win most of those to get to 30 wins, which gets harder the higher you progress.
I'm basically gonna play those matches then spend the rest of the day sandbagging to try to keep my score low enough to win enough matches w/o having to refresh.
That's a really horrible way to set up a gamemode.
I don't believe it's a 18 hour refresh, last time in the beta it was 6 hours then all charges came back to your champion. I would appreciate clarification, but I do think that was the case.
If it was a 6 hour refresh instead of an 18 hour one, do you think you'd change your mind?
It says 6 hours per charge, so 18 for a full charge.
It actually says "Champion Charges replenish on a 6 hour timer". So it could mean either.
But you didn't answer my question, if it was 6 hours instead of 18 do you think that would be more reasonable, being able to do 9-15 match ups a day instead of just 3-5 as you suggested?
Last time it was 6 hrs per charge 18 hrs for a full charge I have no reason to believe it will be any different this time (even though it should be)
And people were exited beforehand - said this is a chance for a big step up regarding solo content. I mean it is, but it’s more pay to win than everything else. I feel bad about it since it was a good idea and approach. Well well
Kabam had an absolute open goal to make this game mode something new and fresh for the game. I suspect it would even attract a whole new type of player to MCOC. Of course they have blown that by trying yet again to monetise it within an inch of its life.
Remove recharge costs. Lower the energy cost. I think a 5 unit re-roll cost would be reasonable if you felt you must have some unit spend in BG.
Will we also be seeing any solo objectives introduced with BGs?
Of course Kabam finds a way to hinder their new game mode....
45 unit revive? or 6 hour waiting time?? On top of the 15 energy cost? My excitement for this mode has greatly dwindled.
Was gonna question when the mode comes to the game full time, but now i don't care. Not worth it - whales are gonna run the mode by constantly reviving the champs.
Can't wait to go against modders and then have to pay to recharge my champs to face more modders for a lackluster store.
You don't have to do it if you don't want to. If you don't think the rewards are worth your time, there's plenty of other things to do in-game right now, and the first part of the Eternity of Pain starts next week too.
Can we have a thought process on why its 45 unit revive for champions? Is this set in stone? Why not less. The player base clearly is angered by this specific thing so it would be nice to get a response on this.
Arena has recharge costs and battlegrounds is better in nearly every way except maybe the cheaters. Although everyone knows Arena has its fair share…
Anyone can still easily get in 10 matches every 2 days without ever recharging considering anyone at level 60 can do 5 matches per full energy refill. That’s 1500 tokens every 6 days right there. Let’s consider you suck and only win 5 of those 30 matches every 6 days…you’d get another 500 tokens for 2000 total each week.
That’s enough for what….3 t4cc selectors, or 2 t2a, or 1.25 t5b, or 10% t5cc selector, or 18k 5* shards, or 3k 6* shards, or 5 6* sig stones, or a combination of some of this EVERY WEEK just by doing the bare minimum.
Give them a chance to do the beta and make changes for the live version and quit complaining about something you already knew was going to be part of it. You can still get plenty without ever having to recharge your champs
Arena has recharge costs and battlegrounds is better in nearly every way except maybe the cheaters. Although everyone knows Arena has its fair share…
Anyone can still easily get in 10 matches every 2 days without ever recharging considering anyone at level 60 can do 5 matches per full energy refill. That’s 1500 tokens every 6 days right there. Let’s consider you suck and only win 5 of those 30 matches every 6 days…you’d get another 500 tokens for 2000 total each week.
That’s enough for what….3 t4cc selectors, or 2 t2a, or 1.25 t5b, or 10% t5cc selector, or 18k 5* shards, or 3k 6* shards, or 5 6* sig stones, or a combination of some of this EVERY WEEK just by doing the bare minimum.
Give them a chance to do the beta and make changes for the live version and quit complaining about something you already knew was going to be part of it. You can still get plenty without ever having to recharge your champs
My experience in the last beta was that I was constantly recharging my champs. It seemed after every single round I had at least 1 champ that was needing to be recharged.
I hope that either the beta after this month long test or live version (whichever we get after May) changes the champion recharging or I personally will have no interest in this game mode.
Arena has recharge costs and battlegrounds is better in nearly every way except maybe the cheaters. Although everyone knows Arena has its fair share…
Anyone can still easily get in 10 matches every 2 days without ever recharging considering anyone at level 60 can do 5 matches per full energy refill. That’s 1500 tokens every 6 days right there. Let’s consider you suck and only win 5 of those 30 matches every 6 days…you’d get another 500 tokens for 2000 total each week.
That’s enough for what….3 t4cc selectors, or 2 t2a, or 1.25 t5b, or 10% t5cc selector, or 18k 5* shards, or 3k 6* shards, or 5 6* sig stones, or a combination of some of this EVERY WEEK just by doing the bare minimum.
Give them a chance to do the beta and make changes for the live version and quit complaining about something you already knew was going to be part of it. You can still get plenty without ever having to recharge your champs
My experience in the last beta was that I was constantly recharging my champs. It seemed after every single round I had at least 1 champ that was needing to be recharged.
I hope that either the beta after this month long test or live version (whichever we get after May) changes the champion recharging or I personally will have no interest in this game mode.
Same here. I was constantly recharging do I didn't have to have the long wait time and so I could still play. I don't care about the rewards and clearly the rewards is not the biggest issue here. The issues is the monetization of the beta by making us spend 45 units to recharge. Now I have to actually wait for the recharge time which sucks. They could have made it 5 units to recharge and that would have been so much better but 45 out the gate especially for the beta is outrageous
Arena has recharge costs and battlegrounds is better in nearly every way except maybe the cheaters. Although everyone knows Arena has its fair share…
Anyone can still easily get in 10 matches every 2 days without ever recharging considering anyone at level 60 can do 5 matches per full energy refill. That’s 1500 tokens every 6 days right there. Let’s consider you suck and only win 5 of those 30 matches every 6 days…you’d get another 500 tokens for 2000 total each week.
That’s enough for what….3 t4cc selectors, or 2 t2a, or 1.25 t5b, or 10% t5cc selector, or 18k 5* shards, or 3k 6* shards, or 5 6* sig stones, or a combination of some of this EVERY WEEK just by doing the bare minimum.
Give them a chance to do the beta and make changes for the live version and quit complaining about something you already knew was going to be part of it. You can still get plenty without ever having to recharge your champs
My experience in the last beta was that I was constantly recharging my champs. It seemed after every single round I had at least 1 champ that was needing to be recharged.
I hope that either the beta after this month long test or live version (whichever we get after May) changes the champion recharging or I personally will have no interest in this game mode.
That’s just not true unless you were competing near the top of the leaderboard and playing it non-stop. Which again, similarly to Arena, if you want to compete near the top you should already be expecting to recharge your champs
Comments
As for the comment, I'm sorry but I disagree. It wasn't condescending. It was a simple statement that people don't have to do it if it's not what they like. I'd like to know how else that could be worded without being misleading.
1- Mastery change ~50 units, another 50 to return it back=~100
2- Energy refills ~8.5 =250 units (40 matches x 15 energy=600 energy)
3- Champion recharge, 45 EACH!! at least 450 units (BTW, using the champion 2 times won't start the timer, only after using him/her 3 times the timer start)
4- time ~20min per match (you need 20 for max efficient rewards, with 50/50 win rate =40 match =13h)
800 units (~30$)
to get:
5k Trophy Tokens, which can get you:
12 6* sig generic sig stones
OR
100 5* generic sig stones
OR
7k 6*shards + 2k 5*shards
OR
30% t5cc selector
I'll pass, thanks
-pay 15 energy every fight
-pay 45 units to refresh a champ
-have no recourse to have energy or points awarded to you if coming up against modders/cheaters
Honestly I’ve enjoyed the beta so far. It’s been a really enjoyable mode, but if there’s all these hoops that we need to jump through, personally I don’t really see me playing it.
And it really is a legitimate question, to want to know what the compensation is for us players who are cheated by modders. Do we get the resources and points used back? Other games are able to detect cheaters in real time, granted these might not be mobile games. Unless we can get can real time detection the mode won’t have much credibility.
Everyone wants or needs different things, but right now I could use a lot of T2A. The store allows up to 2.5 T2A to be purchased per week (5 x 50% per week), which is ten total across the entire four weeks. To get that I would need to average about twenty matches per week assuming a 50% win rate, which would give me 2500 trophies per week assuming I do no more than ten matches per day to maximize the 48 hour milestones. Let's say four matches per day across five days per week. That's about 40 minutes of matches in one day at an energy cost of 60 energy - less than one full bar of energy at level 60. The probability of exhausting a champ at that pace is pretty low, and if I do the matches in groups of two separated by six hours there's zero chance.
That's about thirteen and a half hours of playtime and a relatively manageable amount of energy burned across four weeks to get ten T2A, with no other unit or cash costs associated. Where else can I get ten T2A in fourteen hours of gameplay? This would also burn about 1200 energy across four weeks, which is about the amount of energy someone would burn auto-fighting through heroic exploration. It is about five days of energy. This would be burned about 60 energy at a time on alternating days, which is about a quarter of my energy budget for the day, every other day. That's not a very large energy burn rate.
And that's the return on investment during the beta test.
The recharge cost, however, should remain at 1 gold. You just can’t add a unit cost on top of the energy cost.
We want to play the mode. We want it to be successful. Don’t gatekeep it or else it will just be setup to fail from the start.
18 hrs for a full charge
I have no reason to believe it will be any different this time (even though it should be)
Remove recharge costs.
Lower the energy cost.
I think a 5 unit re-roll cost would be reasonable if you felt you must have some unit spend in BG.
Will we also be seeing any solo objectives introduced with BGs?
45 unit revive? or 6 hour waiting time?? On top of the 15 energy cost? My excitement for this mode has greatly dwindled.
Was gonna question when the mode comes to the game full time, but now i don't care. Not worth it - whales are gonna run the mode by constantly reviving the champs.
Anyone can still easily get in 10 matches every 2 days without ever recharging considering anyone at level 60 can do 5 matches per full energy refill. That’s 1500 tokens every 6 days right there. Let’s consider you suck and only win 5 of those 30 matches every 6 days…you’d get another 500 tokens for 2000 total each week.
That’s enough for what….3 t4cc selectors, or 2 t2a, or 1.25 t5b, or 10% t5cc selector, or 18k 5* shards, or 3k 6* shards, or 5 6* sig stones, or a combination of some of this EVERY WEEK just by doing the bare minimum.
Give them a chance to do the beta and make changes for the live version and quit complaining about something you already knew was going to be part of it. You can still get plenty without ever having to recharge your champs
I hope that either the beta after this month long test or live version (whichever we get after May) changes the champion recharging or I personally will have no interest in this game mode.