I just took moleman to rank 3, and now I hear about this "bug fix" about hin through -NAGASE-'s channel. They should've announced that this bug was being looked into because I didn't even know that it was a bug since it's not a super game breaking mechanic. I think players who have moleman ranked should receive a rank down ticket.
There's no expiration date on a bug. If it's not intended, then it's subject to fixing whenever.
Sure. And if the team leaves it in place for a year and half, fails to respond to players asking about it and doesn’t explicitly call it out in easy to find locations, there’s also reliance that deserves redress.
Dr. Zola
So because they didn't fix it immediately, they changed the fact that it was a bug?
Strawmanning. I trust you can see there’s a fair gap between “immediately” and “a year and a half—with no readily findable comment.”
Dr. Zola
That's where I disagree. A bug is a bug, day 1 after, or 20 years after.
You can't argue with kind of reasoning.. there are even regulations in several areas/disciplines that if you do not adress an issue or have taken actions nor adress it.. it should be considered that the current situation as - is should be accepted ?
Not in the design realm. Anything and everything is subject to change, especially when it comes to bugs. Sometimes things are harder to fix, sometimes they're not as pressing as other issues, sometimes the best course of action is to devote time and energy to other things. When things present compounding issues, internally as well as on our side, then they become a priority for addressing them. The simple fact is, we've all used and benefited from an unintended outcome for some time now. There's very little room for recourse.
He's not the amazing long-lasting evade counter he was anymore, and if that part of his kit was not working as intended I can understand fixing it.
BUT why not acknowledge it as a bug? Why not acknowledge that this was being looked into? All of this confusion could have been avoided if it was just formally stated by the mods/devs that this is being looked into as a potential change a la King Groot. Also I think re-parry as a mechanic was left in and no adjustments were made to patch it out because the community liked it so much, and now there's even a node that rewards that skill and only lets you parry the second hit. Maybe I'm getting things mixed up or imagining them, older forum members please correct me if I am.
this is 100% the issue with this whole situation at the end of the day. Just better communication from kabam on matters like these would've avoided a lot of this like it did with ultron. Of course you'll still get people that still find a way to complain but if this was acknowledged as a bug right away, a lot of this fiasco would've been avoided.
There's no expiration date on a bug. If it's not intended, then it's subject to fixing whenever.
Sure. And if the team leaves it in place for a year and half, fails to respond to players asking about it and doesn’t explicitly call it out in easy to find locations, there’s also reliance that deserves redress.
Dr. Zola
So because they didn't fix it immediately, they changed the fact that it was a bug?
Strawmanning. I trust you can see there’s a fair gap between “immediately” and “a year and a half—with no readily findable comment.”
Dr. Zola
That's where I disagree. A bug is a bug, day 1 after, or 20 years after.
You can't argue with kind of reasoning.. there are even regulations in several areas/disciplines that if you do not adress an issue or have taken actions nor adress it.. it should be considered that the current situation as - is should be accepted ?
This one is simple. Whether it’s a bug or not does not matter.
The only sensible solution is to change the description rather than change the ability.
That will not upset anybody.
He may not be as intended but neither is he game breaking.
Just change the description in the game and everyone’s happy.
Cool, so all the dex, parry and input issues can just be part of the game right? Don't fix the bugs, just make them part of the game?
I have MM as an R3. I took him up knowing about the big and played like he was normal. I don't care if they fix him or leave him the way he is. I don't use him enough to have that strong of an opinion.
But to say " don't fix a bug because it makes the community happy" just isn't how things work.
Ya, But Why did it take 2 years to fix a simple bug.
Why did they not openly declare its a bug.
Why after multiple threads on the issue not one official reply from kabam saying it's a big.
This is just insult of loyal player base.
It didn't take 2 years. It was Feb/Mar of 2021. Just over a year.
I don't know what your definition of a simple bug is but I highly doubt it's the real definition or as simple as you think. But I'm sure you're a professional programmer with decades of experience.
It's not really an insult. You knew about.the bug because you commented on the thread I posted. You're taking as an insult because of the length of time and it's actually being fixed. You, like many are overreacting.
The real issue is the lack of communication and confirmation from Kabam on the issue but don't pretend it wasn't widely known.
Ya, But Why did it take 2 years to fix a simple bug.
Why did they not openly declare its a bug.
Why after multiple threads on the issue not one official reply from kabam saying it's a big.
This is just insult of loyal player base.
This above is the issue. An official prompt response to questions like these should not be a continued problem. This new Kabam guy seems pretty cool and hopefully we'll get more feedback on questions like this as they occur, not a year later.
There's no expiration date on a bug. If it's not intended, then it's subject to fixing whenever.
Sure. And if the team leaves it in place for a year and half, fails to respond to players asking about it and doesn’t explicitly call it out in easy to find locations, there’s also reliance that deserves redress.
Dr. Zola
So because they didn't fix it immediately, they changed the fact that it was a bug?
Strawmanning. I trust you can see there’s a fair gap between “immediately” and “a year and a half—with no readily findable comment.”
Dr. Zola
That's where I disagree. A bug is a bug, day 1 after, or 20 years after.
You can't argue with kind of reasoning.. there are even regulations in several areas/disciplines that if you do not adress an issue or have taken actions nor adress it.. it should be considered that the current situation as - is should be accepted ?
Not in the design realm. Anything and everything is subject to change, especially when it comes to bugs. Sometimes things are harder to fix, sometimes they're not as pressing as other issues, sometimes the best course of action is to devote time and energy to other things. When things present compounding issues, internally as well as on our side, then they become a priority for addressing them. The simple fact is, we've all used and benefited from an unintended outcome for some time now. There's very little room for recourse.
While legally speaking you may be right. Kabam reserves the right to modify any offering they make at any time. However from a customer service perspective it does leave a sour taste. If there was a bug, was it ever acknowledged by any kabam employee? Was it in the list of bugs and known issues post in the bugs section? If not, any person can misinterpret this as a feature especially the longer it goes unaddressed. Was kabam right in fixing this now? Maybe/maybe not. But as a customer service gesture, they should offer moleman specific RDT’s and leave it to the people to decide if they want to use it or not.
Once again kabam is screwing people over. There’s only one reason people ranked up moleman and that was his combination of true strike/frenzy. Made him valuable in war and also for many quests. Whether or not it was initially a bug or not is irrelevant. Kabam knew that’s how he was working and allowed thousands of people to spend there precious resources on him to rank him up for those reasons. Now instead of doing the most sensible thing and easier thing of just re-writing the description of he he works there gonna spend the time to actually buff him back to there originally intended use. Why? Because kabam is only willing to take the time to fix something when it’s something they perceive to be detrimental to there bottom line. Let’s not fix something that matters like say the whole damn game that isn’t and hasn’t worked properly in years. Congratulations kabam! You truly never cease to amaze.
There's no expiration date on a bug. If it's not intended, then it's subject to fixing whenever.
Sure. And if the team leaves it in place for a year and half, fails to respond to players asking about it and doesn’t explicitly call it out in easy to find locations, there’s also reliance that deserves redress.
Dr. Zola
So because they didn't fix it immediately, they changed the fact that it was a bug?
Strawmanning. I trust you can see there’s a fair gap between “immediately” and “a year and a half—with no readily findable comment.”
Dr. Zola
That's where I disagree. A bug is a bug, day 1 after, or 20 years after.
You can't argue with kind of reasoning.. there are even regulations in several areas/disciplines that if you do not adress an issue or have taken actions nor adress it.. it should be considered that the current situation as - is should be accepted ?
Not in the design realm. Anything and everything is subject to change, especially when it comes to bugs. Sometimes things are harder to fix, sometimes they're not as pressing as other issues, sometimes the best course of action is to devote time and energy to other things. When things present compounding issues, internally as well as on our side, then they become a priority for addressing them. The simple fact is, we've all used and benefited from an unintended outcome for some time now. There's very little room for recourse.
It may have been an unintended outcome and yes Kabam have the right to make this change.
But the point is they should not make this change. There is no need to make the change. It is a much simpler and better solution to just change the description in game.
They have chosen to take a course of action which will inconvenience several players. Many of those players will have ranked him up with a very reasonable assumption that he is working as intended.
I could go into pedantic detail as to why it is reasonable for people to think he has been working as intended. But really that is not the point here.
The point is the elegantly simple solution of changing the description in game should have been the obvious choice here.
This one is simple. Whether it’s a bug or not does not matter.
The only sensible solution is to change the description rather than change the ability.
That will not upset anybody.
He may not be as intended but neither is he game breaking.
Just change the description in the game and everyone’s happy.
Cool, so all the dex, parry and input issues can just be part of the game right? Don't fix the bugs, just make them part of the game?
I have MM as an R3. I took him up knowing about the big and played like he was normal. I don't care if they fix him or leave him the way he is. I don't use him enough to have that strong of an opinion.
But to say " don't fix a bug because it makes the community happy" just isn't how things work.
Ya, But Why did it take 2 years to fix a simple bug.
Why did they not openly declare its a bug.
Why after multiple threads on the issue not one official reply from kabam saying it's a big.
This is just insult of loyal player base.
It didn't take 2 years. It was Feb/Mar of 2021. Just over a year.
I don't know what your definition of a simple bug is but I highly doubt it's the real definition or as simple as you think. But I'm sure you're a professional programmer with decades of experience.
It's not really an insult. You knew about.the bug because you commented on the thread I posted. You're taking as an insult because of the length of time and it's actually being fixed. You, like many are overreacting.
The real issue is the lack of communication and confirmation from Kabam on the issue but don't pretend it wasn't widely known.
Why are you defending kabam, when any normal person would know what kabam is doing here is not correct ethically.
Did you not read the last paragraph? I'm not defending them. I'm pointing out errors on both sides of the aisle.
Be mad about the communication. That's issue to be upset about. Don't be mad they fixed a bug because that's what's supposed to happen.
He's not the amazing long-lasting evade counter he was anymore, and if that part of his kit was not working as intended I can understand fixing it.
BUT why not acknowledge it as a bug? Why not acknowledge that this was being looked into? All of this confusion could have been avoided if it was just formally stated by the mods/devs that this is being looked into as a potential change a la King Groot. Also I think re-parry as a mechanic was left in and no adjustments were made to patch it out because the community liked it so much, and now there's even a node that rewards that skill and only lets you parry the second hit. Maybe I'm getting things mixed up or imagining them, older forum members please correct me if I am.
this is 100% the issue with this whole situation at the end of the day. Just better communication from kabam on matters like these would've avoided a lot of this like it did with ultron. Of course you'll still get people that still find a way to complain but if this was acknowledged as a bug right away, a lot of this fiasco would've been avoided.
That's the truth and the sad thing as well. Every year kabam promises more communication and we can see it for maybe a month or so, and then it is back to the normal silence we are used to. Don't want to throw shade but I think Jax is the new iteration of this pattern. I'm hoping I'm wrong, but he has been doing such a great job at chiming in that it has gotten me wondering when that will end.
Once again kabam is screwing people over. There’s only one reason people ranked up moleman and that was his combination of true strike/frenzy. Made him valuable in war and also for many quests. Whether or not it was initially a bug or not is irrelevant. Kabam knew that’s how he was working and allowed thousands of people to spend there precious resources on him to rank him up for those reasons. Now instead of doing the most sensible thing and easier thing of just re-writing the description of he he works there gonna spend the time to actually buff him back to there originally intended use. Why? Because kabam is only willing to take the time to fix something when it’s something they perceive to be detrimental to there bottom line. Let’s not fix something that matters like say the whole damn game that isn’t and hasn’t worked properly in years. Congratulations kabam! You truly never cease to amaze.
I mean, no. You're wrong. If you read his kit and played him, you'd know instantly he was bugged.
Ah man I was looking for this post and I'm glad it's at the top. I have always said never to rank a champ specifically for their beneficial bug and this proves it. For the people saying they didn't read it or asking if they expect people to read a champs abilities before ranking. Yes. That's important when making a rank choice and to know what interactions should be happening. This has been a confirmed bug since his update. Where announced by kabam or not, it was talked about amongst the player base for the longest time as well. There are specific cases when RDT should be applied, but they are rare and this is not one of them. We go through the same song and dance each time a bug is fixed on a champ. This also goes to show that not all player pro bugs get fixed right away as is always shouted out. Also the argument for its been a bug for so long so it should stay is dumb logic. Just because it took them long to fix it doesn't mean it should be a permanent part of the kit. That type of logic could then be applied to all sorts of bugs both beneficial and not.
Kabam could have at least addressed the issue when it was brought up on one of the many occasions. Why not let the community know, "hey, this is a functional bug and not just a text issue. we will eventually fix it".
It wouldnt have made everyone happy, but at least then it would be easily justifiable today. Also, many forum users would have been more cautious when ranking and, as in my case, selecting him from crystals.
It is what it is and whatever will happen will happen, but it would go a long way if Kabam did something for those who ranked/awakened him, because no matter how you look at it, he won't be the same champ come this next update.
Tbh there’s so much of this game that’s filled with unexpected interactions that it’s hard to keep track of what is and isn’t bugged, and that’s from someone who has clearly spent too long on the forums where they’re allegedly documented. I realise in this case that it’s a fairly documented case but it is akin to saying don’t rank up Apocalypse because his horseman prefight is bugged, which I found out to my chagrin in the middle of an AoL path.
What I’d like to see is a comprehensive list of all the known bugs in one pinned topic bullet pointed with any impending actions being annotated but I guess I’m probably weeing in the wind.
Comments
The simple fact is, we've all used and benefited from an unintended outcome for some time now. There's very little room for recourse.
I don't know what your definition of a simple bug is but I highly doubt it's the real definition or as simple as you think. But I'm sure you're a professional programmer with decades of experience.
I still think they did. They moved a thread here- https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/300851/is-mole-man-still-bugged-with-his-true-accuracy-and-frenzy-skill-r-3-4-gem to bugs section. I can't find any MOD comment so I can't say for sure. They knew it was and they should have commented but I can't tell you why they didn't.
It's not really an insult. You knew about.the bug because you commented on the thread I posted. You're taking as an insult because of the length of time and it's actually being fixed. You, like many are overreacting.
The real issue is the lack of communication and confirmation from Kabam on the issue but don't pretend it wasn't widely known.
Ya, But
Why did it take 2 years to fix a simple bug.
Why did they not openly declare its a bug.
Why after multiple threads on the issue not one official reply from kabam saying it's a big.
This is just insult of loyal player base.
This above is the issue. An official prompt response to questions like these should not be a continued problem. This new Kabam guy seems pretty cool and hopefully we'll get more feedback on questions like this as they occur, not a year later.
(Sorry I deleted where I copied from above.)
Was kabam right in fixing this now? Maybe/maybe not. But as a customer service gesture, they should offer moleman specific RDT’s and leave it to the people to decide if they want to use it or not.
Be mad about the communication. That's issue to be upset about. Don't be mad they fixed a bug because that's what's supposed to happen.
It wouldnt have made everyone happy, but at least then it would be easily justifiable today. Also, many forum users would have been more cautious when ranking and, as in my case, selecting him from crystals.
It is what it is and whatever will happen will happen, but it would go a long way if Kabam did something for those who ranked/awakened him, because no matter how you look at it, he won't be the same champ come this next update.
What I’d like to see is a comprehensive list of all the known bugs in one pinned topic bullet pointed with any impending actions being annotated but I guess I’m probably weeing in the wind.