Warlock vs Node 33 AW Bug

TheBair123

https://youtu.be/p_NP5FuE3dY
https://youtu.be/cwARm7kSdB0

As the node reads, the defender should not be gaining vigor charges while under a heal block effect. Even while infected (a heal block effect), Green Goblin gained charges a number of times and went unblockable. Would love if this could be looked at before the season starts. Thanks!

Maratox

This is actually not a bug. While the defender is heal blocked during infection, infection itself is not considered a heal block effect. It’s just a symptom of being infected so it doesn’t count like a normal heal block unfortunately. There’s one path in act 6 that I used warlock for hoping to benefit off the boost that interacts with heal block and it didn’t work.

AverageDesi

Both neiritixins and infection does not count as heal block. It was updated in their texts just recently.it means they can still heal block heal block immune champs

AverageDesi

AverageDesi

From the Wiccan and hulkling update

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TheBair123

So by changing the wording to “will not gain health” it renders Warlock useless for nodes where you need a “heal block?” Ridiculous

AverageDesi

TheBair123 said:

So by changing the wording to “will not gain health” it renders Warlock useless for nodes where you need a “heal block?” Ridiculous

As i understand from the patch notes, it was always how they functioned. The nuanced mechanics was never really relevant until recently when these specific mechanics and immunities came into the game.

Just like how even slow immune and/or true strike immune (not immune exactly but like peni)champs cannot evade iron mans repulsor beams because they just "CANNOT" be evaded.(i haven't actually tries this but I'm guessing that's how it works)

And it's good that these sort of minor differences are being specified in the kits so that interactions are more clear. It also helps that this means both warlock and archangel bypasses heal block immune champs like Gore and rintrah(or was it a node that gave champs roatating heal block and stun immunity)

AverageDesi

Amazing_Demon05 said:

AverageDesi said:

Both neiritixins and infection does not count as heal block. It was updated in their texts just recently.it means they can still heal block heal block immune champs

swedeah in eop overcame infection with champion though then what was that?

i think it was after the wiccan update right?
last month was gorr after all

I don't know. Probably he has to be updated to be like " healing cannot be prevented in any manner"

pseudosane

That is actually ridiculous. cannot gain health= healblock. Whats so complicated in that? Such a nonsense interaction.

Maratox

Amazing_Demon05 said:

AverageDesi said:

Both neiritixins and infection does not count as heal block. It was updated in their texts just recently.it means they can still heal block heal block immune champs

swedeah in eop overcame infection with champion though then what was that?

i think it was after the wiccan update right?
last month was gorr after all

The Champion’s signature ability says he is immune to any effect that would modify his healing except for poison

AverageDesi

Maratox said:

Amazing_Demon05 said:

AverageDesi said:

Both neiritixins and infection does not count as heal block. It was updated in their texts just recently.it means they can still heal block heal block immune champs

swedeah in eop overcame infection with champion though then what was that?

i think it was after the wiccan update right?
last month was gorr after all

The Champion’s signature ability says he is immune to any effect that would modify his healing except for poison

But that would imply warlock and archangel are modifying regen rate and would be neuterred in nodes that are immune to regen rate modification. But that's not the case is it? They can still do thise fights

AverageDesi

pseudosane said:

That is actually ridiculous. cannot gain health= healblock. Whats so complicated in that? Such a nonsense interaction.

No. Heal block is a specific debuff /passive that has the property of preventing heal.

Look at Valkyrie. She "reacts as if champs aren't unstoppable" by previous game mechanics it' s basically just slow. But it isn't . It's a different mechanic

TheBair123

AverageDesi said:

pseudosane said:

That is actually ridiculous. cannot gain health= healblock. Whats so complicated in that? Such a nonsense interaction.

No. Heal block is a specific debuff /passive that has the property of preventing heal.

Look at Valkyrie. She "reacts as if champs aren't unstoppable" by previous game mechanics it' s basically just slow. But it isn't . It's a different mechanic

And warlock’s “opponent cannot heal” is a heal block with more words. No different properties, just plain and simple that the opponent is blocked from healing

Maratox

AverageDesi said:

Maratox said:

Amazing_Demon05 said:

AverageDesi said:

Both neiritixins and infection does not count as heal block. It was updated in their texts just recently.it means they can still heal block heal block immune champs

swedeah in eop overcame infection with champion though then what was that?

i think it was after the wiccan update right?
last month was gorr after all

The Champion’s signature ability says he is immune to any effect that would modify his healing except for poison

But that would imply warlock and archangel are modifying regen rate and would be neuterred in nodes that are immune to regen rate modification. But that's not the case is it? They can still do thise fights

Because the champion is immune to all effects except poison that modify healing. Not healing rate. Healing. They’re different. I’m not saying it’s the most sensible thing in the world but this is how it works

AverageDesi

TheBair123 said:

AverageDesi said:

pseudosane said:

That is actually ridiculous. cannot gain health= healblock. Whats so complicated in that? Such a nonsense interaction.

No. Heal block is a specific debuff /passive that has the property of preventing heal.

Look at Valkyrie. She "reacts as if champs aren't unstoppable" by previous game mechanics it' s basically just slow. But it isn't . It's a different mechanic

And warlock’s “opponent cannot heal” is a heal block with more words. No different properties, just plain and simple that the opponent is blocked from healing

Heal block is a specific game effect. Trying to say it is the same as blocking the opponenet from healing by using it in normal conversational language is nonsensical.

For all it's worth the specific effect could be called " OOGA BAGGA" that has the property of preventing opponenet from healing . And the node reads " Applying OOGA BAGGA prevents vigour charges"

And Gorr is immune to OOGA BAGGA

pseudosane

Maratox said:

AverageDesi said:

Maratox said:

Amazing_Demon05 said:

AverageDesi said:

Both neiritixins and infection does not count as heal block. It was updated in their texts just recently.it means they can still heal block heal block immune champs

swedeah in eop overcame infection with champion though then what was that?

i think it was after the wiccan update right?
last month was gorr after all

The Champion’s signature ability says he is immune to any effect that would modify his healing except for poison

But that would imply warlock and archangel are modifying regen rate and would be neuterred in nodes that are immune to regen rate modification. But that's not the case is it? They can still do thise fights

Because the champion is immune to all effects except poison that modify healing. Not healing rate. Healing. They’re different. I’m not saying it’s the most sensible thing in the world but this is how it works

This is false. Petrify will not work on him either, that affects healing rate, and so... healing. YJ heal rate reduction doesnt work either.

pseudosane

AverageDesi said:

pseudosane said:

That is actually ridiculous. cannot gain health= healblock. Whats so complicated in that? Such a nonsense interaction.

No. Heal block is a specific debuff /passive that has the property of preventing heal.

Look at Valkyrie. She "reacts as if champs aren't unstoppable" by previous game mechanics it' s basically just slow. But it isn't . It's a different mechanic

I just look at it as a passive slwo of sorts. Idk about valk.
Warlock and AA are speciically affecting healing. When heal rate=0 it is healblock. plain and simple. Two ways of getting the same result. So this interaction is nonsense.

TheBair123

AverageDesi said:

TheBair123 said:

AverageDesi said:

pseudosane said:

That is actually ridiculous. cannot gain health= healblock. Whats so complicated in that? Such a nonsense interaction.

No. Heal block is a specific debuff /passive that has the property of preventing heal.

Look at Valkyrie. She "reacts as if champs aren't unstoppable" by previous game mechanics it' s basically just slow. But it isn't . It's a different mechanic

And warlock’s “opponent cannot heal” is a heal block with more words. No different properties, just plain and simple that the opponent is blocked from healing

Heal block is a specific game effect. Trying to say it is the same as blocking the opponenet from healing by using it in normal conversational language is nonsensical.

For all it's worth the specific effect could be called " OOGA BAGGA" that has the property of preventing opponenet from healing . And the node reads " Applying OOGA BAGGA prevents vigour charges"

And Gorr is immune to OOGA BAGGA

that is wrong in my eyes, but i can see how you interpret it that way. the node reads (and i quote) "if the defender is not under a heal block effect they gain a dormant Vigor charge." the way is see it, while warlock's infection does not (anymore) say the words "HEAL BLOCK," it does have the effect of a heal block, as the opponent is prevented from healing. i think more clarification is needed here, because i don't see how something that prevents the opponent from healing and a heal block effect are two different things

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Maratox

pseudosane said:

Maratox said:

AverageDesi said:

Maratox said:

Amazing_Demon05 said:

AverageDesi said:

Both neiritixins and infection does not count as heal block. It was updated in their texts just recently.it means they can still heal block heal block immune champs

swedeah in eop overcame infection with champion though then what was that?

i think it was after the wiccan update right?
last month was gorr after all

The Champion’s signature ability says he is immune to any effect that would modify his healing except for poison

But that would imply warlock and archangel are modifying regen rate and would be neuterred in nodes that are immune to regen rate modification. But that's not the case is it? They can still do thise fights

Because the champion is immune to all effects except poison that modify healing. Not healing rate. Healing. They’re different. I’m not saying it’s the most sensible thing in the world but this is how it works

This is false. Petrify will not work on him either, that affects healing rate, and so... healing. YJ heal rate reduction doesnt work either.

I should have specified that “any effect that modifies healing rate” is included in “any effect that modifies healing.” Hence, I am still correct.

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AverageDesi

TheBair123 said:

AverageDesi said:

TheBair123 said:

AverageDesi said:

pseudosane said:

That is actually ridiculous. cannot gain health= healblock. Whats so complicated in that? Such a nonsense interaction.

No. Heal block is a specific debuff /passive that has the property of preventing heal.

Look at Valkyrie. She "reacts as if champs aren't unstoppable" by previous game mechanics it' s basically just slow. But it isn't . It's a different mechanic

And warlock’s “opponent cannot heal” is a heal block with more words. No different properties, just plain and simple that the opponent is blocked from healing

Heal block is a specific game effect. Trying to say it is the same as blocking the opponenet from healing by using it in normal conversational language is nonsensical.

For all it's worth the specific effect could be called " OOGA BAGGA" that has the property of preventing opponenet from healing . And the node reads " Applying OOGA BAGGA prevents vigour charges"

And Gorr is immune to OOGA BAGGA

that is wrong in my eyes, but i can see how you interpret it that way. the node reads (and i quote) "if the defender is not under a heal block effect they gain a dormant Vigor charge." the way is see it, while warlock's infection does not (anymore) say the words "HEAL BLOCK," it does have the effect of a heal block, as the opponent is prevented from healing. i think more clarification is needed here, because i don't see how something that prevents the opponent from healing and a heal block effect are two different things

The name heal block effect refers specifically to the effect that has the symbol "heart with a cross". Just because two things do the same thing dues not mean they are the same. Remember the whole thing with direct damage not triggering face me? Both degen and direct damage do the same thing but completely different things

TheBair123

AverageDesi said:

TheBair123 said:

AverageDesi said:

TheBair123 said:

AverageDesi said:

pseudosane said:

That is actually ridiculous. cannot gain health= healblock. Whats so complicated in that? Such a nonsense interaction.

No. Heal block is a specific debuff /passive that has the property of preventing heal.

Look at Valkyrie. She "reacts as if champs aren't unstoppable" by previous game mechanics it' s basically just slow. But it isn't . It's a different mechanic

And warlock’s “opponent cannot heal” is a heal block with more words. No different properties, just plain and simple that the opponent is blocked from healing

Heal block is a specific game effect. Trying to say it is the same as blocking the opponenet from healing by using it in normal conversational language is nonsensical.

For all it's worth the specific effect could be called " OOGA BAGGA" that has the property of preventing opponenet from healing . And the node reads " Applying OOGA BAGGA prevents vigour charges"

And Gorr is immune to OOGA BAGGA

that is wrong in my eyes, but i can see how you interpret it that way. the node reads (and i quote) "if the defender is not under a heal block effect they gain a dormant Vigor charge." the way is see it, while warlock's infection does not (anymore) say the words "HEAL BLOCK," it does have the effect of a heal block, as the opponent is prevented from healing. i think more clarification is needed here, because i don't see how something that prevents the opponent from healing and a heal block effect are two different things

The name heal block effect refers specifically to the effect that has the symbol "heart with a cross". Just because two things do the same thing dues not mean they are the same. Remember the whole thing with direct damage not triggering face me? Both degen and direct damage do the same thing but completely different things

If they wanted specifically that icon with the heart and the cross, then it would’ve been “heal block debuff or passive.” Instead, it is “heal block effect.” This signifies that it can be more than just the heal block debuff or passive, but another effect

AverageDesi

TheBair123 said:

AverageDesi said:

TheBair123 said:

AverageDesi said:

TheBair123 said:

AverageDesi said:

pseudosane said:

That is actually ridiculous. cannot gain health= healblock. Whats so complicated in that? Such a nonsense interaction.

No. Heal block is a specific debuff /passive that has the property of preventing heal.

Look at Valkyrie. She "reacts as if champs aren't unstoppable" by previous game mechanics it' s basically just slow. But it isn't . It's a different mechanic

And warlock’s “opponent cannot heal” is a heal block with more words. No different properties, just plain and simple that the opponent is blocked from healing

Heal block is a specific game effect. Trying to say it is the same as blocking the opponenet from healing by using it in normal conversational language is nonsensical.

For all it's worth the specific effect could be called " OOGA BAGGA" that has the property of preventing opponenet from healing . And the node reads " Applying OOGA BAGGA prevents vigour charges"

And Gorr is immune to OOGA BAGGA

that is wrong in my eyes, but i can see how you interpret it that way. the node reads (and i quote) "if the defender is not under a heal block effect they gain a dormant Vigor charge." the way is see it, while warlock's infection does not (anymore) say the words "HEAL BLOCK," it does have the effect of a heal block, as the opponent is prevented from healing. i think more clarification is needed here, because i don't see how something that prevents the opponent from healing and a heal block effect are two different things

The name heal block effect refers specifically to the effect that has the symbol "heart with a cross". Just because two things do the same thing dues not mean they are the same. Remember the whole thing with direct damage not triggering face me? Both degen and direct damage do the same thing but completely different things

If they wanted specifically that icon with the heart and the cross, then it would’ve been “heal block debuff or passive.” Instead, it is “heal block effect.” This signifies that it can be more than just the heal block debuff or passive, but another effect

An 'effect' or 'status effect' in game terminology has always meant buff , debuff or passive.

Notice that in the node description the word ' heal block' is captitalized to be a proper noun. Meaning it refers to a very speciifc type of thing and not just any thing that gives the same result(in this case, blocking healing)

AverageDesi

Adi_tya0210 said:

Amazing_Demon05 said:

AverageDesi said:

Both neiritixins and infection does not count as heal block. It was updated in their texts just recently.it means they can still heal block heal block immune champs

swedeah in eop overcame infection with champion though then what was that?

Duration of infection is reduced by 6s for each unique buffs we have
More than 4 unique buffs and infection won't last even 1s

@Adi_tya0210 but he does heal even with infection

AverageDesi

pseudosane said:

AverageDesi said:

pseudosane said:

That is actually ridiculous. cannot gain health= healblock. Whats so complicated in that? Such a nonsense interaction.

No. Heal block is a specific debuff /passive that has the property of preventing heal.

Look at Valkyrie. She "reacts as if champs aren't unstoppable" by previous game mechanics it' s basically just slow. But it isn't . It's a different mechanic

I just look at it as a passive slwo of sorts. Idk about valk.
Warlock and AA are speciically affecting healing. When heal rate=0 it is healblock. plain and simple. Two ways of getting the same result. So this interaction is nonsense.

Look up valk. Or iron man infinity war preventing evade. Two ways of getting same result have completely different mech

TheBair123

AverageDesi said:

TheBair123 said:

AverageDesi said:

TheBair123 said:

AverageDesi said:

TheBair123 said:

AverageDesi said:

pseudosane said:

That is actually ridiculous. cannot gain health= healblock. Whats so complicated in that? Such a nonsense interaction.

No. Heal block is a specific debuff /passive that has the property of preventing heal.

Look at Valkyrie. She "reacts as if champs aren't unstoppable" by previous game mechanics it' s basically just slow. But it isn't . It's a different mechanic

And warlock’s “opponent cannot heal” is a heal block with more words. No different properties, just plain and simple that the opponent is blocked from healing

Heal block is a specific game effect. Trying to say it is the same as blocking the opponenet from healing by using it in normal conversational language is nonsensical.

For all it's worth the specific effect could be called " OOGA BAGGA" that has the property of preventing opponenet from healing . And the node reads " Applying OOGA BAGGA prevents vigour charges"

And Gorr is immune to OOGA BAGGA

that is wrong in my eyes, but i can see how you interpret it that way. the node reads (and i quote) "if the defender is not under a heal block effect they gain a dormant Vigor charge." the way is see it, while warlock's infection does not (anymore) say the words "HEAL BLOCK," it does have the effect of a heal block, as the opponent is prevented from healing. i think more clarification is needed here, because i don't see how something that prevents the opponent from healing and a heal block effect are two different things

The name heal block effect refers specifically to the effect that has the symbol "heart with a cross". Just because two things do the same thing dues not mean they are the same. Remember the whole thing with direct damage not triggering face me? Both degen and direct damage do the same thing but completely different things

If they wanted specifically that icon with the heart and the cross, then it would’ve been “heal block debuff or passive.” Instead, it is “heal block effect.” This signifies that it can be more than just the heal block debuff or passive, but another effect

An 'effect' or 'status effect' in game terminology has always meant buff , debuff or passive.

Notice that in the node description the word ' heal block' is captitalized to be a proper noun. Meaning it refers to a very speciifc type of thing and not just any thing that gives the same result(in this case, blocking healing)

How does that disprove my point? Warlock’s infection is a status effect that heal blocks the opponent. Therefore, it is a heal block effect. Would love some clarification from a mod on this. Only 24 hours until AW season

AverageDesi

TheBair123 said:

AverageDesi said:

TheBair123 said:

AverageDesi said:

TheBair123 said:

AverageDesi said:

TheBair123 said:

AverageDesi said:

pseudosane said:

That is actually ridiculous. cannot gain health= healblock. Whats so complicated in that? Such a nonsense interaction.

No. Heal block is a specific debuff /passive that has the property of preventing heal.

Look at Valkyrie. She "reacts as if champs aren't unstoppable" by previous game mechanics it' s basically just slow. But it isn't . It's a different mechanic

And warlock’s “opponent cannot heal” is a heal block with more words. No different properties, just plain and simple that the opponent is blocked from healing

Heal block is a specific game effect. Trying to say it is the same as blocking the opponenet from healing by using it in normal conversational language is nonsensical.

For all it's worth the specific effect could be called " OOGA BAGGA" that has the property of preventing opponenet from healing . And the node reads " Applying OOGA BAGGA prevents vigour charges"

And Gorr is immune to OOGA BAGGA

that is wrong in my eyes, but i can see how you interpret it that way. the node reads (and i quote) "if the defender is not under a heal block effect they gain a dormant Vigor charge." the way is see it, while warlock's infection does not (anymore) say the words "HEAL BLOCK," it does have the effect of a heal block, as the opponent is prevented from healing. i think more clarification is needed here, because i don't see how something that prevents the opponent from healing and a heal block effect are two different things

The name heal block effect refers specifically to the effect that has the symbol "heart with a cross". Just because two things do the same thing dues not mean they are the same. Remember the whole thing with direct damage not triggering face me? Both degen and direct damage do the same thing but completely different things

If they wanted specifically that icon with the heart and the cross, then it would’ve been “heal block debuff or passive.” Instead, it is “heal block effect.” This signifies that it can be more than just the heal block debuff or passive, but another effect

An 'effect' or 'status effect' in game terminology has always meant buff , debuff or passive.

Notice that in the node description the word ' heal block' is captitalized to be a proper noun. Meaning it refers to a very speciifc type of thing and not just any thing that gives the same result(in this case, blocking healing)

How does that disprove my point? Warlock’s infection is a status effect that heal blocks the opponent. Therefore, it is a heal block effect. Would love some clarification from a mod on this. Only 24 hours until AW season

That's not how that works. That's not how any of this works. Only a Heal Block effect is a Heal Block effect. Warlock s infections are infection. That's it. What it does is irrelevant. You need "Heal Block " effect specifically to get that node. Either a passive or a debuff.

As i said "Heal Block "is a proper noun. It is not descriptive of what it does. It just happens to be. "Slow" effect for example does not slow the opponent by any stretch of the imagination. They function as normal but just can't be unstoppable. But that does not mean any champ that affects usntoppable is also a slow champ. Replace that with something in your mind like "Bair" effect or something.