Why was the Ant-Man synergy Ghost has, changed? Was that really necessary?

Squammo

Additionally, after some testing he’s only getting the normal amount of particles. There’s also a typo.

Maratox

There was no need to change the synergy. He could stack way more debuffs before. Maybe at most they cut it back to like 8% attack per debuff. But no need to completely change it.

Gogeta91199

Previously antman with ghost and cap falcon was super fun to play and had great damage and not too hard to maintain the debuffs but after using him now though the utility is good the damage is kinda hard to maintain and it is lesser than what he was dealing before.

So in short yes it was necessary to nerf the synergy😑😑

BitterSteel

Before his buff, the synergy was required to give him damage. After his buff, he now has the damage from his base kit so the synergy isn’t necessary

Any attack from the synergy would mean that balancing of his base kit would be necessary to make sure he isn’t doing more damage than intended.

This synergy is better, because it means Ant Man can be good on his base kit, while the synergy gives him some extra perks.

Squammo

BitterSteel said:

Before his buff, the synergy was required to give him damage. After his buff, he now has the damage from his base kit so the synergy isn’t necessary

Any attack from the synergy would mean that balancing of his base kit would be necessary to make sure he isn’t doing more damage than intended.

This synergy is better, because it means Ant Man can be good on his base kit, while the synergy gives him some extra perks.

Where does that damage come from, though? The Poisons? Only his sp2 gives him an attack boost and the poisons can be really tricky to keep up at times.

Wicket329

Antman's synergies are kind of a mess right now, but this synergy seems to be working properly. It is only the Pym Particles that he gains from using his Sp1 that are doubled, not any that he would get from triggering his buff immunity. However, there are a number of problems with his other synergies.

First off, Antman is not currently glancing on blocked attacks. Therefore, his Wasp synergy that grants him fury passives when glancing attacks is substantially less useful. Previously, Antman could block a special attack to proc those furies. Now he has to take the attack fully into the face to do so.

Additionally, I know the Captain America (Sam Wilson) synergy was modified to remove the debuff pausing capability because Antman can now pause and refresh those debuffs on his base kit. That's totally fine. However, the rest of the synergy gives Antman 100% chance to place a fatigue on the opponent with each hit of the Sp1, which is also a thing already in his base kit.

Through testing, I see that this is placing an *additional* fatigue per hit, which is essentially identical to the new Ghost synergy, except for two differences. First, these extra fatigues can go above the 12 stack limit. Second, they cannot be refreshed via intercept or punishing the opponent's heavy. This may seem like a decent tradeoff if you are able to rush up to an sp2 before these non-refreshable fatigues expire, except that Antman's poisons have their own cap of 12, so the extra fatigues cannot be converted into poisons. The *only* purpose they serve is making Antman's power sting a tiny bit stronger. That's the whole synergy now. This seems pretty unhelpful, but if anybody can see a meaningful use for it, please let me know.

His rework is good overall and I'm definitely happy with it, but there are also some interactions now that seem like either bugs (for the Wasp synergy), or just useless in the context of his new kit.

BitterSteel

Squammo said:

BitterSteel said:

Before his buff, the synergy was required to give him damage. After his buff, he now has the damage from his base kit so the synergy isn’t necessary

Any attack from the synergy would mean that balancing of his base kit would be necessary to make sure he isn’t doing more damage than intended.

This synergy is better, because it means Ant Man can be good on his base kit, while the synergy gives him some extra perks.

Where does that damage come from, though? The Poisons? Only his sp2 gives him an attack boost and the poisons can be really tricky to keep up at times.

I just mean that pre-buff Ant Man without any synergies would take like 10 minutes to take down WS, now he'll do it in 3 mins. Overall damage is better now.

Fireatwill

Another undocumented change, which is inexcusable.

PetieCameron

Rank down tickets should be given for all synergy changes that simple. Some rank up just for the synergy so fair is fair if they messing with it.

ExHavok

How can they call this "buff" seriously, Ant Man lost %88 of his poisons, he lost his attack synergy, basically he lost all his damage. Before buff he hit harder. 6* R2 Ant Man hits 2.6k mediums against Star Lord now. We knew Sam Wilson synergy would change but nothing told about this synergy.

slacker

I could see Howard situation over again when ppl suddenly take a deep care about synergies that took 3-4 slots just to make one champ useful, and impractical in almost every content.

RyanGolf

PetieCameron said:

Rank down tickets should be given for all synergy changes that simple. Some rank up just for the synergy so fair is fair if they messing with it.

I 100% agree. the only reason I ranked him up was because of his synergy. he is now a better champ as a solo fighter but far worse than when he had the previous synergies

Yodabolt21

So he is bette as you said, but you want RDT?

Kabam really messed up by issuing RDT for Mole Man. Now every bugged champ, modified synergy etc… is more whining about RDT

BitterSteel

RyanGolf said:

PetieCameron said:

Rank down tickets should be given for all synergy changes that simple. Some rank up just for the synergy so fair is fair if they messing with it.

I 100% agree. the only reason I ranked him up was because of his synergy. he is now a better champ as a solo fighter but far worse than when he had the previous synergies

So just to clarify, do you prefer Ant Man as a champion pre buff who has 0 utility, requires a full synergy team and has a massive ramp up to have big damage - compared to post buff with poison, shock and buff immunity, quicker access to big damage, 0 reliance on synergies and a miss counter?

Personally, I think pre buff Ant Man is a relatively useless addition to any sort of meta in the game, but post buff he is going to be a staple AW attacker as the first buff immune champion with additional immunities.

BitterSteel

slacker said:

I could see Howard situation over again when ppl suddenly take a deep care about synergies that took 3-4 slots just to make one champ useful, and impractical in almost every content.

Exactly, people are looking at a 4-slot team that destroys LoL Star Lord in 300 hits and being sad that Ant Man is more reliable in 99% of situations, along with tons of extra utility and more accessible damage. I understand it as a reaction, but I definitely do not agree with it

Fireatwill

I think the jury is still out on his damage, because his glancing while blocking appears to be bugged. There is no debate however that this should have been documented prior. It is a major change, and would have taken 2 seconds to type the sentence. No other game would get away with this kind of shade.

Squammo

Just to add, the Ronin and Wasp Synergies were changed as well. Ronin was 35% and Wasp furies had no cap.

Demonzfyre

PetieCameron said:

Rank down tickets should be given for all synergy changes that simple. Some rank up just for the synergy so fair is fair if they messing with it.

So what was nerfed with Ant Man to deserve RDTs?

BitterSteel

Fireatwill said:

I think the jury is still out on his damage, because his glancing while blocking appears to be bugged. There is no debate however that this should have been documented prior. It is a major change, and would have taken 2 seconds to type the sentence. No other game would get away with this kind of shade.

Yeah, I'll agree there, 0 reason not to announce external synergies changing beforehand. These things should definitely be announced in the buff spotlight

ExHavok

I wish they worked his abilities as hard as they did for his synergies.

Wicket329

For the people who are asking for Antman RDTs post buff, what rank Antman were you using and what content were you bringing him to?

I have a hard time imagining he was seeing any use past RoL and Act 4, maybe Act 5, in his previous state. Now he has viability in almost all content in the game.

Graves_3

Maybe AW defense? Just to be clear I only have 1/25 antman and am not asking for RDT’s. Just answering the question.

slacker

BitterSteel said:

RyanGolf said:

PetieCameron said:

Rank down tickets should be given for all synergy changes that simple. Some rank up just for the synergy so fair is fair if they messing with it.

I 100% agree. the only reason I ranked him up was because of his synergy. he is now a better champ as a solo fighter but far worse than when he had the previous synergies

So just to clarify, do you prefer Ant Man as a champion pre buff who has 0 utility, requires a full synergy team and has a massive ramp up to have big damage - compared to post buff with poison, shock and buff immunity, quicker access to big damage, 0 reliance on synergies and a miss counter?

Personally, I think pre buff Ant Man is a relatively useless addition to any sort of meta in the game, but post buff he is going to be a staple AW attacker as the first buff immune champion with additional immunities.

Lol, i just note that Antman has triple immunities, buff, shock and poison.

Sean_Who

Without synergies: nice poison damage that requires almost 4 specials to get to. Little disappointed but once it is up it ticks pretty nicely.

PetieCameron

I don't mean rank down tickets for ant-man for Ronin,wasp,ghost and all other champs affected by ant-man.there was nothing about it what so ever now our synergy champs are affected just because some are happy about antman not everyone is stop trying to bully people out of there opinion because some u get what u want.

benshb

With only the quantum trinity Ant-Man is awesome. 2 sp1, get in some hit with glancing for 3 fury then sp2, and my 5r4 unboosted, non suicide, I'm class minus Ant-Man dealt 2400 poinon per tick against WS. I can only imagine what can he do at r3 boosted, suicide, maybe class bonus

BitterSteel

PetieCameron said:

I don't mean rank down tickets for ant-man for Ronin,wasp,ghost and all other champs affected by ant-man.there was nothing about it what so ever now our synergy champs are affected just because some are happy about antman not everyone is stop trying to bully people out of there opinion because some u get what u want.

None of the other champs synergies have changed? Ghost, wasp etc are still getting the same effect from the synergy.

Goldcup7

Disappointed with the buff. He was great fun with Sam Wilson synergy, but the fun has gone now. I will have to test him some more to see if I will be using him now.

Lordabck

Ant man is literally nerfed. I was excited for my 6* duped antman. Thank god I didn’t ranked him up. I knew in my heart Kabam will definitely mess up somewhere.
Kabam we players have trust issues with you now. You know who are not trustworthy?

PetieCameron

AHH well if that's true all good people was saying synergy changed not if not then I can admit when I'm wrong I thought synergy were worse now du to antman changes my bad.

psp742

I prefer kabam left Ghost Antman as it was.. Antman gain potent fury.. gaining pym particle is not something that helps Antman.. this feels like a nerf more than anything.. #reworkbuffAntman - again..