War: The Loyalty issue

So the rewards update for Season 37 came out yesterday, and the reward update was top notch! Everything that the war players were looking for to push this game mode..... save one thing. Loyalty.
Ever since the change of war economy to loyalty, the loyalty shortage has been immense for higher tier players. Breaking even is a tough task, and most war players are usually at a net negative at the end of the season.
While this has been masked in the last couple season with a 1million compensation infusion, and S36 being a dud (not too much pushing), the loyalty issue is one I feel will come to the forefront very soon with intense competition about to break out with S37.

The issues have been previously pointe out, but there has been no work done on them.

1) The potion cost (size) is too low. 9k healing is practically nothing for an r3/4 6* champ yet they cost 20k+ loyalty per potion. Healing hp is the most expensive resource in the current meta. L4 potions for 9k healing at such overpriced values of loyalty is absurd. For reference, boosted champs hold upwards of 60k hp, leading to a cost of upwards of 60k loyalty to bring them to a decent hp level.... once.

2)boost costs are quite high. 7k, 10k for a 40-50 minute period is tough to maintain, especially since the fights where these boosts may be needed may be far between. This adds an extra layer of trouble for planners, especially since the number of boosts that can be procured is now downsized due to s36 changes. Also grey boosts which are an absolute requirement in some fights increase loyalty costs.

3) Loyalty gained per war is too less. 70k loyalty per win , and 35k loyalty per loss is TOO less. As mentioned earlier, a majority of higher level players end at a net negative. There needs to be higher supply of this resource to alleviate atleast some concerns.

Here are a few steps the team can take to alleviate this issue

1) Add a lump sum of loyalty to every tier at the end of every season. 300-500k loyalty scaling downwards by 15-30k per tier will help immensely.

2) slash potion costs by half. This is a major offender to the loyalty economy so by slashing prices, healing will not be such a major punishment.

3) Increase loyalty gained. This can be done by majorly increasing loyalty gained for a win AND a loss, totally reworking the war solo event, and War victor/loss crystals.

A mixture of these steps will help the war economy to break even, and allow competition to flourish even more in this space. This would be a major pro player move, and will allow ALL tiers to become competitive. 40% revives was a step in the right direction, but I believe the Kabam team has an onus to build on it to help with war community. I have belief the team will do the right thing.

Cheers.

@Kabam Miike @Kabam Jax i would appreciate if you could take these suggestions to the team.

Comments

ArbenBisha

I wholeheartedly agree with everything that's been written here. As it is currently, we're ending every season at a net loss when it comes to loyalty, and I'm speaking about masters-level players that die maybe 2-3 times per season tops, let alone when players in lower tiers die like every war basically.

Ercarret

As someone who is Paragon and whose alliance is in or around Gold 3, I wasn't too impressed with the rewards bump we got. A 6* Nexus instead of a 5* Nexus is obviously an improvement, but one extra Nexus per month doesn't really move my account one way or another.

Part of the problem is that my alliance is fairly mixed in terms of progression level, meaning that not everyone can contribute at a Paragon level, which leads to a season rank whose rewards just don't interest me all that much. However, I thought that things would improve with the introduction of the Loyalty store. In theory, it is perfect. It finally gives me and my mates a place to use the loyalty that we earn from AW. The resources we gain are progression-based so it doesn't throw the economy out of whack. In many ways, it turned loyalty into the same awesome currency that glory used to be.

The problem with loyalty is that the gains per war fall off significantly as you move down the tiers. I think we earn around 15K loyalty per war, which becomes 150K per season (are there ten wars/season? Something like that, right?), which in turn buys you almost nothing in the Loyalty store. If I want to buy half a t3a, I have to save up over three months' time. In order to buy the 6* awakening gem, I have to save for over 6 months.

What I mean is, if the Loyalty store is supposed to be meaningful in any way, I too believe that there has to be a significant increase in Loyalty. Otherwise you'll have top players who are using their loyalty to push in war, while lower- and mid-tier players can't scrounge together enough loyalty to barely ever use it at all. I'm happy that the Loyalty store was changed, but I would be happier if I could dip into it more than once a year to pick up an awakening gem. As it stands now, I don't really visit is more often than I was before.

K00shMaan

As someone who is Paragon and whose alliance is in or around Gold 3, I wasn't too impressed with the rewards bump we got. A 6* Nexus instead of a 5* Nexus is obviously an improvement, but one extra Nexus per month doesn't really move my account one way or another.

Part of the problem is that my alliance is fairly mixed in terms of progression level, meaning that not everyone can contribute at a Paragon level, which leads to a season rank whose rewards just don't interest me all that much. However, I thought that things would improve with the introduction of the Loyalty store. In theory, it is perfect. It finally gives me and my mates a place to use the loyalty that we earn from AW. The resources we gain are progression-based so it doesn't throw the economy out of whack. In many ways, it turned loyalty into the same awesome currency that glory used to be.

The problem with loyalty is that the gains per war fall off significantly as you move down the tiers. I think we earn around 15K loyalty per war, which becomes 150K per season (are there ten wars/season? Something like that, right?), which in turn buys you almost nothing in the Loyalty store. If I want to buy half a t3a, I have to save up over three months' time. In order to buy the 6* awakening gem, I have to save for over 6 months.

What I mean is, if the Loyalty store is supposed to be meaningful in any way, I too believe that there has to be a significant increase in Loyalty. Otherwise you'll have top players who are using their loyalty to push in war, while lower- and mid-tier players can't scrounge together enough loyalty to barely ever use it at all. I'm happy that the Loyalty store was changed, but I would be happier if I could dip into it more than once a year to pick up an awakening gem. As it stands now, I don't really visit is more often than I was before.

This is more or less my assessment as well. The change in rewards was pretty significant at the top all the way down to Gold 1 as r4 Materials were increased by quite a bit. However, as a Gold 2 Alliance, the reward bump was very insignificant. By increasing Loyalty, I would be able get some better rewards from the Loyalty Store compared to the higher tiers players who will likely need to spend that Loyalty to compete higher and get the better rewards.

pseudosane

YEah my main hope is for Kabam to have a hard look at the supply of loyalty. THis is a non farmable resource, that has literally only one source of supply. ANd the funny thing is, yo ucannot ever achieve good chunks of loyalty since the bigger portions of loyalty remains in the higher tiers, where you need to spend loyalty. I'm hoping that by increase the supply here, some of the pain can be eased.

pseudosane

I hope this thread is not lost to the annuls of time

Looperdude55

They don’t care about the players enough to comment on any tough questions they just pretend everything is alright

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pseudosane

@Kabam Miike @Kabam Jax can we have some light on this issue, and move it back to general discussion? This isnt a "suggestion" it is a general issue.

Tijjy007

Agree 100%. Help i feel should get a loyalty buff too imo, thats actually being loyal to your alliance.

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pseudosane

Welp, another issue swept under the rug. Bravo team! Keep up the good work.

TheBair123

Welp, another issue swept under the rug. Bravo team! Keep up the good work.

You might almost say that they’re very “loyal” about not doing anything for this issue…

pseudosane

@Kabam Miike @Kabam Jax is this issue being discussed at the very least, by the team?

TheBair123

great, now we're going into season 38 and nothing has been changed. loyalty changes were announced in late july/early august, and this season won't end until december. 4 months with no communication is insane

ẞlue

I'd like to add some of my insight as someone who plays at the very top of war.

I don't believe that loyalty is as huge as an issue as you describe in your original post at the top tiers. I always make back a profit from season, despite pushing for #1. This means full health for every fight and max boosts for most wars. There are a few reasons, but generally it comes down to managing your boosts and potions properly.

Most people won't be taking 10 fights a war, so generally you don't need to use a ton of items or boosts. Planning is also why I'm able to make back more loyalty then I spend. Proper counters and knowing what fights you'll want to boost for will help you preserve your items.

Also offseason will help you earn loyalty to pay off any negative if you have an expensive season, and generally get you a few hundred thousand for free in tier 1. (200k approximate in tier 1)

I wouldn't mind a bit more loyalty tho, just why it isn't a huge issue.

pseudosane

I'd like to add some of my insight as someone who plays at the very top of war.

I don't believe that loyalty is as huge as an issue as you describe in your original post at the top tiers. I always make back a profit from season, despite pushing for #1. This means full health for every fight and max boosts for most wars. There are a few reasons, but generally it comes down to managing your boosts and potions properly.

Most people won't be taking 10 fights a war, so generally you don't need to use a ton of items or boosts. Planning is also why I'm able to make back more loyalty then I spend. Proper counters and knowing what fights you'll want to boost for will help you preserve your items.

Also offseason will help you earn loyalty to pay off any negative if you have an expensive season, and generally get you a few hundred thousand for free in tier 1. (200k approximate in tier 1)

I wouldn't mind a bit more loyalty tho, just why it isn't a huge issue.

There are a few things you have to add to this discussion for context.

GT40 is the best ,and generally have higher skilled players.
GT40 has close to perfect win ratio.
Gt40 has good/great rosters to cover every fight satisfactorily.

While i understand your points, i disagree with them due to context. GT40 is an outlier.

Coppin

If u r spending that much in war.. maybe u should drop down a tier...
U can't have it all for free... R4 mats and war rewards..

ẞlue

"GT40 is the best ,and generally have higher skilled players
GT40 has close to perfect win ratio.
Gt40 has good/great rosters to cover every fight satisfactorily."

Ok. A few things:
1. My points apply to nearly all tier 1 alliances.
Giving all of tier 1 a 50% win rate, you will still make more loyalty than you burn.

2. GT40 does generally have more skilled players, but we also face much tougher defenses than most of tier 1 all season.

3. Most of our rosters are awful compared to other tier 1 alliances lol.

pseudosane

"GT40 is the best ,and generally have higher skilled players
GT40 has close to perfect win ratio.
Gt40 has good/great rosters to cover every fight satisfactorily."

Ok. A few things:
1. My points apply to nearly all tier 1 alliances.
Giving all of tier 1 a 50% win rate, you will still make more loyalty than you burn.

2. GT40 does generally have more skilled players, but we also face much tougher defenses than most of tier 1 all season.

3. Most of our rosters are awful compared to other tier 1 alliances lol.

~700k loyalty a season is around what you make, which budgets all the boosts/ grey boosts and healing.

I dont disagree, for some it is easy to make a profit off it. People who are usually assigned certain types of champs can rush through with little problems.
One rough war can set it all back. You are forgetting, one death = ~100k loyalty.
The numbers in the end dont add up.

ẞlue

"GT40 is the best ,and generally have higher skilled players
GT40 has close to perfect win ratio.
Gt40 has good/great rosters to cover every fight satisfactorily."

Ok. A few things:
1. My points apply to nearly all tier 1 alliances.
Giving all of tier 1 a 50% win rate, you will still make more loyalty than you burn.

2. GT40 does generally have more skilled players, but we also face much tougher defenses than most of tier 1 all season.

3. Most of our rosters are awful compared to other tier 1 alliances lol.

~700k loyalty a season is around what you make, which budgets all the boosts/ grey boosts and healing.

I dont disagree, for some it is easy to make a profit off it. People who are usually assigned certain types of champs can rush through with little problems.
One rough war can set it all back. You are forgetting, one death = ~100k loyalty.
The numbers in the end dont add up.

You make 770k loyalty winning at 50% in tier 1 (roughly)

Averaging 2 potions per war, all grey boosts every 3 days, 2 PB boosts every week, you earn 160k loyalty per season.

Take away 60k for expensive wars (Although generally offset by cheap ones as well), you gain 100k loyalty per season. Far from losing loyalty every season in high tier war.

pseudosane

"GT40 is the best ,and generally have higher skilled players
GT40 has close to perfect win ratio.
Gt40 has good/great rosters to cover every fight satisfactorily."

Ok. A few things:
1. My points apply to nearly all tier 1 alliances.
Giving all of tier 1 a 50% win rate, you will still make more loyalty than you burn.

2. GT40 does generally have more skilled players, but we also face much tougher defenses than most of tier 1 all season.

3. Most of our rosters are awful compared to other tier 1 alliances lol.

~700k loyalty a season is around what you make, which budgets all the boosts/ grey boosts and healing.

I dont disagree, for some it is easy to make a profit off it. People who are usually assigned certain types of champs can rush through with little problems.
One rough war can set it all back. You are forgetting, one death = ~100k loyalty.
The numbers in the end dont add up.
You make 770k loyalty winning at 50% in tier 1 (roughly)

Averaging 2 potions per war, all grey boosts every 3 days, 2 PB boosts every week, you earn 160k loyalty per season.

Take away 60k for expensive wars (Although generally offset by cheap ones as well), you gain 100k loyalty per season. Far from losing loyalty every season in high tier war.

2 pots is 18k health. Unless you are playing close to perfectly every fight, that isnt a realistic average number.

Qwerty12345

"GT40 is the best ,and generally have higher skilled players
GT40 has close to perfect win ratio.
Gt40 has good/great rosters to cover every fight satisfactorily."

Ok. A few things:
1. My points apply to nearly all tier 1 alliances.
Giving all of tier 1 a 50% win rate, you will still make more loyalty than you burn.

2. GT40 does generally have more skilled players, but we also face much tougher defenses than most of tier 1 all season.

3. Most of our rosters are awful compared to other tier 1 alliances lol.

~700k loyalty a season is around what you make, which budgets all the boosts/ grey boosts and healing.

I dont disagree, for some it is easy to make a profit off it. People who are usually assigned certain types of champs can rush through with little problems.
One rough war can set it all back. You are forgetting, one death = ~100k loyalty.
The numbers in the end dont add up.
You make 770k loyalty winning at 50% in tier 1 (roughly)

Averaging 2 potions per war, all grey boosts every 3 days, 2 PB boosts every week, you earn 160k loyalty per season.

Take away 60k for expensive wars (Although generally offset by cheap ones as well), you gain 100k loyalty per season. Far from losing loyalty every season in high tier war.
2 pots is 18k health. Unless you are playing close to perfectly every fight, that isnt a realistic average number.

And what about those poor souls in lower tier wars? They take damage too and also need to heal up, typically the same champions / health pools, but they get a lot less loyalty that those summoners in the tier-1 ivory tower.

Griffoplay

In the last few seasons I have found a decrease of interest in the war seasons. This is mainly due to 3 factors I presume:
1) the introduction of other contents in the game in which to find resources in a less expensive way
2) The tedium of the officers to have to manage the battle groups considering that there are now hundreds of options for attack, defense, war nodes and global nodes. being an officer has been particularly exhausting in those few seasons.
3) The loyalty problem. the introduction of revives at 40% at the cost of a loyalty is certainly positive but the increase for various heals and boosts is exaggerated.

I add that the loyalty gap gained between victory and defeat should be as small as possible. I add that currently winning gives you resources that allow you to have an increasingly greater advantage over those who follow. The top allies have always been the same for months and months. I almost come to say that at least for loyalty it should be almost the opposite, the more you win and the less you should gain compared to those who lose. (almost, at least even).
Heals cost the same whether you play in T1 or in T4. the defenses of T1 will have more choice and maybe they will all be r4, in t3 / t4 wars 6* r4 in defense are still there, the attackers are not all r4 as in t1. The need for healing is the same and the costs the same. yet whoever wins in t1 has more cata, more 6 stars fragments, more loyalty, more of everything.