Future of Progression: Relics, 7-Stars and Ascension Roadmap - Discussion Thread

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  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 31,772 ★★★★★

    why not add a new rank to the existing 6* (r6,r7 ....etc) instead of 7*?

    That wouldn't add the same longevity to the game overall.
    Why not?
    These Rarities aren't just for the Top Players who will need something new to push for. They're for the entire game to grow into, including the Players and the Devs.
    I know it's a pointless rat hole to go down, but that makes absolutely no sense.
    How does it make no sense?
    I asked you to explain why you stated the 7*s are the way to add more longevity to the game and you came back with because top players needing to push isn't the same as players and Devs growing. Now explain to me how that answers the question, because for the life of me it makes no sense to me.
    Besides the fact that I support what DNA just said, I'll break it down.
    A new Rarity is a new acquisition, and a new X amount of Ranks to introduce. That gives X amount of time to design content, work on Rosters, make umpteen decisions, tune things, you name it.
    Adding new Ranks, Items, etc....that just adds another rung to the same acquisition. Sure, that works for people wanting to stop the process, but it doesn't give the game much to grow into. It's just prolongement. As much as people think they want that, it will get old very quickly. Not only that, it limits future content which is planned and designed much longer in advance. Given the current rate of Resource acquisition, it won't take long before the game hits a stalemate.
    The future of the game cannot be limited to working on a new Rank every 6 months to a year, and trying for the occasional OP Champ that people take interest in.
    The real issue is people think they can get to a place where they don't have to grow a Roster, and all that spells is end-game. Literally.
  • Here's a revolutionary idea, and please bear with me. Instead of money-grabbing gimmicks to squeeze whale tatas as hard as possible like relics and 7 star champs (both of which seem deeply uninventive and the relics especially sound like they will kill the skill aspect of what makes this game fun to many of us), what if Kabam were to, and please just hear me out, focus just on releasing more actual content and not spend any time on ways to "push boundaries" with champs that really don't need it? 6*R5's being continually hard to get and develop is a great plateau. Ascension, maybe that would be fine, and that sounds like the least of the evils and one that may not cause a mass exodus from the game and the death to Kabam's cash flow from it. But back to the point, what if we were to get more actual content to engage and entertain the player base? EOP is a huge win and is well received. 8.1 and further developments in the campaign are both fun and challenging, and also well received. The back issues (variants) content seems to have stagnated but has generally been embraced and loved by the player base. Gauntlet was fun (while it was here), and more of that kind of special content has been well received. The point is, what the players seem to want here is content, not additional champion growth systems. The current system is good as it is and could end with 6*R5 champs and increasingly challenging content that would push our skills instead of trying to push into our wallets and purses. I am genuinely concerned that a push for relics or rolling out 7* champs will be the deathblow to a game I love very much. Kabam does a lot of things right and the content is the bulk of it. The monetization around the content is what often ruins it (just look at what happened with the Battlegrounds release, which took a fun and enjoyable game mode and made it quite stinky with the way the milestones and cash offers worked), but there's a level players are okay with clearly and it does need to happen to fund the game. New champs? Absolutely. New Acts and Chapters? All day. Back Issues? Yes, please. More content like Labyrinth, Abyss and Gauntlet? Bring it on. And those are all things the players (including myself) generally like. In my opinion (and please pile on folks if I'm not just spouting nonsense) Kabam should focus their efforts 100% on content, not unwanted progression systems that will kill what has made this game so beloved to many of us for years running.

    The problem you have is the parts of the game you believe are problematic are the only reasons you have a game to play at all. Without periodic roster resets, the game would be starved for new players and would eventually be abandoned. If it wasn't for the monetization you don't like, the game wouldn't exist at all.

    You dream of a playground for the existing players where everything serves the needs of the people who are already here, already have everything, and don't want to continue chasing anything. Where the devs do nothing but blow content up our skirts constantly that we don't have to pay for. That's a gaming utopia, but no one wants to dedicate an entire game studio and online game infrastructure to make your gaming utopia. The game must first survive as an ongoing business, and that means extending the rarity ladder whether you're ready for it or not, want it or not, need it or not. And it means monetizing the game so it can pay for itself and generate enough of a profit for both the parent game company who paid hundreds of millions of dollars to acquire it, and the intellectual property license owner who doesn't just want to make some profit on their license, but maximize that profit on the license (or take it away and hand it to someone else who might make more).

    The progression systems - not just the current progression environment, but the systems that mandate constant upward progression growth - are the load bearing structure of the game. They aren't optional parts of the game you can pick and choose which to keep and which to get rid of. They are the game.
  • AleorAleor Posts: 2,966 ★★★★★
    And here I used to think it's either 7* or these relics thing...
  • With so many bugs/glitches being reported, why not fix those first? And 7⭐️’s are the last thing this game needs. So ridiculous. It takes FOREVER and a ton of resources to rank and level 5 & 6 ⭐️ Champions. This is getting stupid

    It is supposed to go without saying, but on a day like today, why not.

    1. The people who design content for the game are not the same people who fix bugs with the game systems.

    2. The progression ladder is not a choice, any more than selling in-game offers is a choice. It is a thing that happens as part of the ongoing operation and development of the game. They cannot choose to stop supporting the progression and related systems in favor of "fixing bugs" any more than McDonalds can close every store in the world until they get the flavor of Chicken McNuggets just right.
  • Gamer said:

    DNA3000 said:

    KyrieRed said:

    I think they should focus on the ascension mechanic first, and honestly if kabam is thinking about introducing 7* why not give us the option to rank up rarity as well, 4* be able to rank up to 6* for example.

    1. They aren't thinking about it. 7* champs are, and have always been inevitable.

    2. The whole point to incrementing to the next rarity is you don't have them yet. There's no point in introducing a new rarity, then letting everyone upgrade their roster to it.
    7 star is out from me game done deleted my account
    As 6* champs did, I'm sure there will be people who will quit over the introduction of 7* champs. I'm fairly philosophical about that. The next rarity tier is inevitable, as is the next one, and the next one, so anyone who quits over the introduction of 7* champs is someone who is quitting over an inevitability that was decided a long time ago. We lost them a long time ago, we just didn't know that yet, and neither really did they.

    I know there are people who think the next rarity tier is not inevitable, that all the devs have to do is XYZ. They'll never accept, refuse to believe, and/or will never have the opportunity to learn, just exactly what forces in game operation make this one of the safest bets I've ever been willing to make. I said 6* rarity was inevitable before they arrived, and I've been saying since forever that 7* rarity or something like it is also inevitable. Even when Relics were announced and people were hoping Relics would eliminate the need for 7* rarity, I cautioned that the only way Relics would make 7* rarity unnecessary is if Relics were basically structurally identical to new rarities. They aren't, so they can't, and here we are.

    8* rarity, by the way, is inevitable. That, or something like it that isn't called 8* rarity, but is 8* rarity in disguise. Anyone holding out hope that maybe 7* rarity is the last one, you're going to end up losing that bet, just like everyone else before you, because if you think 8* rarity is an option, you don't understand why new rarities exist in the first place. Don't bet against them. If you're philosophically against them, progression based games are not for you. Not just this one, but any of them. No matter how much you think you've found one that won't do this to you, the only ones that don't are the ones that shut down before they get the chance.
  • GamerGamer Posts: 9,126 ★★★★★
    To be freaking honest I’m wil like them to drop 7 star talk and just building one the offer system
  • GamerGamer Posts: 9,126 ★★★★★

    why not add a new rank to the existing 6* (r6,r7 ....etc) instead of 7*?

    That wouldn't add the same longevity to the game overall.
    Why not?
    These Rarities aren't just for the Top Players who will need something new to push for. They're for the entire game to grow into, including the Players and the Devs.
    I know it's a pointless rat hole to go down, but that makes absolutely no sense.
    How does it make no sense?
    I asked you to explain why you stated the 7*s are the way to add more longevity to the game and you came back with because top players needing to push isn't the same as players and Devs growing. Now explain to me how that answers the question, because for the life of me it makes no sense to me.
    Besides the fact that I support what DNA just said, I'll break it down.
    A new Rarity is a new acquisition, and a new X amount of Ranks to introduce. That gives X amount of time to design content, work on Rosters, make umpteen decisions, tune things, you name it.
    Adding new Ranks, Items, etc....that just adds another rung to the same acquisition. Sure, that works for people wanting to stop the process, but it doesn't give the game much to grow into. It's just prolongement. As much as people think they want that, it will get old very quickly. Not only that, it limits future content which is planned and designed much longer in advance. Given the current rate of Resource acquisition, it won't take long before the game hits a stalemate.
    The future of the game cannot be limited to working on a new Rank every 6 months to a year, and trying for the occasional OP Champ that people take interest in.
    The real issue is people think they can get to a place where they don't have to grow a Roster, and all that spells is end-game. Literally.
    While I don't agree with your assessment, I appreciate you putting together a much more coherent thought.

    I understand the concept of needing a new "rarity" to chase for the economics of the game and overall balance, but the need for it constantly to be a new star level escapes me. The overall champ pool becomes more diluted month after month and year after year, purely with the introduction of new champs. That alone makes it much harder for a new player to be able to grab the exact champions they want out of the gate and so they must "Chase" as well as existing players who want the latest and greatest. So why again is there a need for a different star?

    And then I guess you're telling me Marvel doesn't have enough characters to sustain continued additions. I will whole heartedly disagree based on 40+ years of reading comics. It is more than possible to maintain a steady influx of new champions without adding stars.

    There is no reason the systems of progression can't be expanded with these news ideas of relics and ascension, so that players are once again "chasing." Adding new ideas and concepts may not be what everyone wants, but at least it keeps things fresh. Adding star levels to the same old champs is boring, stale and lazy.
    Agerd with this 7 star shuldt hadn’t happened
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 17,409 ★★★★★

    Personally, I don’t have the energy and patience to do the grind of acquiring and progressing champions again like I did with five and 6 stars.This really stinks but the writing may very well be on the wall for me to stop spending the money and start getting out of this game. Relics I was cool with but they should just stop with 6 stars

    The grind? You mean playing the game normally? The game hasn't changed for any new rarity introduced in terms of acquisition. It's questing at it's core. If we're on act 9 with 7* mats, how is that any different than being act 8 getting r5 6* mats?

    I'm not a huge fan of 7*'s to begin with but it's exactly the same as what happened with 6*'s when they came out. People said it would ruin the game and they didn't want to start over etc.. but here we are. The game has to go some where and the other 2 methods with relics and ascensions can only take it so far. I do think that 7*'s should come after the introduction of the other 2 though.
    The difference for a lot of people though is that although it’s the same argument as when 6 stars came out years ago, it’s now the same people who spent their time and money that will be working to acquire these 7 stars. If people want to wait 2-3 years build back up their 7 star roster to get these new rarity champs go ahead but I personally would rather kabams attention being to the stuff they promised us in other roadmaps such as mastery presets
    Roadmaps aren't promises. The past ones were very clear that the things they mentioned were things they were wanting to add but nothing was ever guaranteed.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 17,409 ★★★★★
    DalBot said:

    DalBot said:

    Ackbar67 said:

    Reading this thread is such a flashback to 2017, all the comments are exactly the same, just replacing 6 with 7

    And the folks who were angry 5 years ago are now 5 years further along, many have kids that they didn't have then, mortgages... other real life situations. Starting the chase all over again from scratch just isn't worth the time and energy commitment for a large amount of us
    But you aren't really starting from scratch. The way they have all this coming out but 7*'s is more like a side quest. If I'm able to make a R5 6* as strong as a R1 or 2 7*, that's not really starting over. I'm just building on 7*'s on the side.
    So in other words prestige doesn't exist at the top of the game?
    Well, I don't know how you went from what I said to this comment but, relics will push that prestige for 6*'s further. From how I read it, relics seem to only be for 6*'s. On top of that with accensions, 6*'s will still have higher prestige.

    Not everyone in this game cares about prestige anyway.
  • ButtehrsButtehrs Posts: 3,020 ★★★★★

    why not add a new rank to the existing 6* (r6,r7 ....etc) instead of 7*?

    That wouldn't add the same longevity to the game overall.
    Why not?
    These Rarities aren't just for the Top Players who will need something new to push for. They're for the entire game to grow into, including the Players and the Devs.
    I know it's a pointless rat hole to go down, but that makes absolutely no sense.
    How does it make no sense?
    I asked you to explain why you stated the 7*s are the way to add more longevity to the game and you came back with because top players needing to push isn't the same as players and Devs growing. Now explain to me how that answers the question, because for the life of me it makes no sense to me.
    Besides the fact that I support what DNA just said, I'll break it down.
    A new Rarity is a new acquisition, and a new X amount of Ranks to introduce. That gives X amount of time to design content, work on Rosters, make umpteen decisions, tune things, you name it.
    Adding new Ranks, Items, etc....that just adds another rung to the same acquisition. Sure, that works for people wanting to stop the process, but it doesn't give the game much to grow into. It's just prolongement. As much as people think they want that, it will get old very quickly. Not only that, it limits future content which is planned and designed much longer in advance. Given the current rate of Resource acquisition, it won't take long before the game hits a stalemate.
    The future of the game cannot be limited to working on a new Rank every 6 months to a year, and trying for the occasional OP Champ that people take interest in.
    The real issue is people think they can get to a place where they don't have to grow a Roster, and all that spells is end-game. Literally.
    While I don't agree with your assessment, I appreciate you putting together a much more coherent thought.

    I understand the concept of needing a new "rarity" to chase for the economics of the game and overall balance, but the need for it constantly to be a new star level escapes me. The overall champ pool becomes more diluted month after month and year after year, purely with the introduction of new champs. That alone makes it much harder for a new player to be able to grab the exact champions they want out of the gate and so they must "Chase" as well as existing players who want the latest and greatest. So why again is there a need for a different star?

    And then I guess you're telling me Marvel doesn't have enough characters to sustain continued additions. I will whole heartedly disagree based on 40+ years of reading comics. It is more than possible to maintain a steady influx of new champions without adding stars.

    There is no reason the systems of progression can't be expanded with these news ideas of relics and ascension, so that players are once again "chasing." Adding new ideas and concepts may not be what everyone wants, but at least it keeps things fresh. Adding star levels to the same old champs is boring, stale and lazy.
    Adding stars is not the same thing as adding new champions. At all. New champs bring in new abilities. New Stars bring in the ability to take those champs to higher power levels. The two aren't identical or replaceable by the other.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 17,409 ★★★★★

    Based on the post I tried to provide some level of meaningful response to what Kabam

    DNA3000 said:

    Here's a revolutionary idea, and please bear with me. Instead of money-grabbing gimmicks to squeeze whale tatas as hard as possible like relics and 7 star champs (both of which seem deeply uninventive and the relics especially sound like they will kill the skill aspect of what makes this game fun to many of us), what if Kabam were to, and please just hear me out, focus just on releasing more actual content and not spend any time on ways to "push boundaries" with champs that really don't need it? 6*R5's being continually hard to get and develop is a great plateau. Ascension, maybe that would be fine, and that sounds like the least of the evils and one that may not cause a mass exodus from the game and the death to Kabam's cash flow from it. But back to the point, what if we were to get more actual content to engage and entertain the player base? EOP is a huge win and is well received. 8.1 and further developments in the campaign are both fun and challenging, and also well received. The back issues (variants) content seems to have stagnated but has generally been embraced and loved by the player base. Gauntlet was fun (while it was here), and more of that kind of special content has been well received. The point is, what the players seem to want here is content, not additional champion growth systems. The current system is good as it is and could end with 6*R5 champs and increasingly challenging content that would push our skills instead of trying to push into our wallets and purses. I am genuinely concerned that a push for relics or rolling out 7* champs will be the deathblow to a game I love very much. Kabam does a lot of things right and the content is the bulk of it. The monetization around the content is what often ruins it (just look at what happened with the Battlegrounds release, which took a fun and enjoyable game mode and made it quite stinky with the way the milestones and cash offers worked), but there's a level players are okay with clearly and it does need to happen to fund the game. New champs? Absolutely. New Acts and Chapters? All day. Back Issues? Yes, please. More content like Labyrinth, Abyss and Gauntlet? Bring it on. And those are all things the players (including myself) generally like. In my opinion (and please pile on folks if I'm not just spouting nonsense) Kabam should focus their efforts 100% on content, not unwanted progression systems that will kill what has made this game so beloved to many of us for years running.

    The problem you have is the parts of the game you believe are problematic are the only reasons you have a game to play at all. Without periodic roster resets, the game would be starved for new players and would eventually be abandoned. If it wasn't for the monetization you don't like, the game wouldn't exist at all.

    You dream of a playground for the existing players where everything serves the needs of the people who are already here, already have everything, and don't want to continue chasing anything. Where the devs do nothing but blow content up our skirts constantly that we don't have to pay for. That's a gaming utopia, but no one wants to dedicate an entire game studio and online game infrastructure to make your gaming utopia. The game must first survive as an ongoing business, and that means extending the rarity ladder whether you're ready for it or not, want it or not, need it or not. And it means monetizing the game so it can pay for itself and generate enough of a profit for both the parent game company who paid hundreds of millions of dollars to acquire it, and the intellectual property license owner who doesn't just want to make some profit on their license, but maximize that profit on the license (or take it away and hand it to someone else who might make more).

    The progression systems - not just the current progression environment, but the systems that mandate constant upward progression growth - are the load bearing structure of the game. They aren't optional parts of the game you can pick and choose which to keep and which to get rid of. They are the game.
    What I suggested was merely that the development focus on what actually provides value to the game's customers. There are plenty of unit offers (including to get new champs, or around clearing say Act 7) that can be wrapped around new content without just upping the star number or rolling out a gear system that just serves as a very uninventive way to further monetize what the overall player base is not especially interested in. Or, you know, just add a star this year. An eighth star the next, 9's and so on. Kabam can innovate and make money, and serve customer interest at the same time. Or, push progression systems that may drive some short-term gain but ultimately drive away the whales to something new and dry up the cash flow.

    Frankly, I don't see why anyone would start playing this game new at this point, and widening that gap even more at this point will just further discourage new players and ultimately make this game die all the faster.

    I'm proposing a solution instead of throwing stones, as I want MCOC to be around for a long time. I'll take content with hooks hands down over just hooks.
    You act like there won't be any new content going forward. There are new players all the time. It's incredibly easy to advance in this game as a new player.

    You just saying "make more content" isn't really coming up with a solution. It's just stating what this game is already doing.
  • DanielRandDanielRand Posts: 126 ★★
    Buttehrs said:

    why not add a new rank to the existing 6* (r6,r7 ....etc) instead of 7*?

    That wouldn't add the same longevity to the game overall.
    Why not?
    These Rarities aren't just for the Top Players who will need something new to push for. They're for the entire game to grow into, including the Players and the Devs.
    I know it's a pointless rat hole to go down, but that makes absolutely no sense.
    How does it make no sense?
    I asked you to explain why you stated the 7*s are the way to add more longevity to the game and you came back with because top players needing to push isn't the same as players and Devs growing. Now explain to me how that answers the question, because for the life of me it makes no sense to me.
    Besides the fact that I support what DNA just said, I'll break it down.
    A new Rarity is a new acquisition, and a new X amount of Ranks to introduce. That gives X amount of time to design content, work on Rosters, make umpteen decisions, tune things, you name it.
    Adding new Ranks, Items, etc....that just adds another rung to the same acquisition. Sure, that works for people wanting to stop the process, but it doesn't give the game much to grow into. It's just prolongement. As much as people think they want that, it will get old very quickly. Not only that, it limits future content which is planned and designed much longer in advance. Given the current rate of Resource acquisition, it won't take long before the game hits a stalemate.
    The future of the game cannot be limited to working on a new Rank every 6 months to a year, and trying for the occasional OP Champ that people take interest in.
    The real issue is people think they can get to a place where they don't have to grow a Roster, and all that spells is end-game. Literally.
    While I don't agree with your assessment, I appreciate you putting together a much more coherent thought.

    I understand the concept of needing a new "rarity" to chase for the economics of the game and overall balance, but the need for it constantly to be a new star level escapes me. The overall champ pool becomes more diluted month after month and year after year, purely with the introduction of new champs. That alone makes it much harder for a new player to be able to grab the exact champions they want out of the gate and so they must "Chase" as well as existing players who want the latest and greatest. So why again is there a need for a different star?

    And then I guess you're telling me Marvel doesn't have enough characters to sustain continued additions. I will whole heartedly disagree based on 40+ years of reading comics. It is more than possible to maintain a steady influx of new champions without adding stars.

    There is no reason the systems of progression can't be expanded with these news ideas of relics and ascension, so that players are once again "chasing." Adding new ideas and concepts may not be what everyone wants, but at least it keeps things fresh. Adding star levels to the same old champs is boring, stale and lazy.
    Adding stars is not the same thing as adding new champions. At all. New champs bring in new abilities. New Stars bring in the ability to take those champs to higher power levels. The two aren't identical or replaceable by the other.
    You’re missing the point I as making. There was a statement that 7*s were needed instead of just adding levels and ranks to existing champs because players need something to chase after. I’m saying that there can be plenty of things to chase other than a new star level
  • ButtehrsButtehrs Posts: 3,020 ★★★★★

    Buttehrs said:

    why not add a new rank to the existing 6* (r6,r7 ....etc) instead of 7*?

    That wouldn't add the same longevity to the game overall.
    Why not?
    These Rarities aren't just for the Top Players who will need something new to push for. They're for the entire game to grow into, including the Players and the Devs.
    I know it's a pointless rat hole to go down, but that makes absolutely no sense.
    How does it make no sense?
    I asked you to explain why you stated the 7*s are the way to add more longevity to the game and you came back with because top players needing to push isn't the same as players and Devs growing. Now explain to me how that answers the question, because for the life of me it makes no sense to me.
    Besides the fact that I support what DNA just said, I'll break it down.
    A new Rarity is a new acquisition, and a new X amount of Ranks to introduce. That gives X amount of time to design content, work on Rosters, make umpteen decisions, tune things, you name it.
    Adding new Ranks, Items, etc....that just adds another rung to the same acquisition. Sure, that works for people wanting to stop the process, but it doesn't give the game much to grow into. It's just prolongement. As much as people think they want that, it will get old very quickly. Not only that, it limits future content which is planned and designed much longer in advance. Given the current rate of Resource acquisition, it won't take long before the game hits a stalemate.
    The future of the game cannot be limited to working on a new Rank every 6 months to a year, and trying for the occasional OP Champ that people take interest in.
    The real issue is people think they can get to a place where they don't have to grow a Roster, and all that spells is end-game. Literally.
    While I don't agree with your assessment, I appreciate you putting together a much more coherent thought.

    I understand the concept of needing a new "rarity" to chase for the economics of the game and overall balance, but the need for it constantly to be a new star level escapes me. The overall champ pool becomes more diluted month after month and year after year, purely with the introduction of new champs. That alone makes it much harder for a new player to be able to grab the exact champions they want out of the gate and so they must "Chase" as well as existing players who want the latest and greatest. So why again is there a need for a different star?

    And then I guess you're telling me Marvel doesn't have enough characters to sustain continued additions. I will whole heartedly disagree based on 40+ years of reading comics. It is more than possible to maintain a steady influx of new champions without adding stars.

    There is no reason the systems of progression can't be expanded with these news ideas of relics and ascension, so that players are once again "chasing." Adding new ideas and concepts may not be what everyone wants, but at least it keeps things fresh. Adding star levels to the same old champs is boring, stale and lazy.
    Adding stars is not the same thing as adding new champions. At all. New champs bring in new abilities. New Stars bring in the ability to take those champs to higher power levels. The two aren't identical or replaceable by the other.
    You’re missing the point I as making. There was a statement that 7*s were needed instead of just adding levels and ranks to existing champs because players need something to chase after. I’m saying that there can be plenty of things to chase other than a new star level
    There will be. Relics and runes for the relics. Or did you not read the post lol.
  • TrapKill66TrapKill66 Posts: 89
    Hi Y'all,
    After reading the article I'm interested to see how this plays out. Seems like Kabam are attempting to meet as many player needs/wants as possible. Seems like they are being reasonably careful.

    After only two and a half years in the contest I'm not ready to plateau. Relics seem interesting however I don't really care for the striker mechanic, 7 stars as we ascend current champs seems valid and in all honesty, inevitable, delaying them is a good idea, possibly for longer than suggested in the article. Ascension interests me the most. I've worked hard for my current roster, rather than hope for the eventual 6 star Apoc, taking my max sig 5 star beyond his current capacity is quite exciting as I hunt and wait for the elusive 6 star variant.

    TrapKill :)
  • DanielRandDanielRand Posts: 126 ★★
    Buttehrs said:

    Buttehrs said:

    why not add a new rank to the existing 6* (r6,r7 ....etc) instead of 7*?

    That wouldn't add the same longevity to the game overall.
    Why not?
    These Rarities aren't just for the Top Players who will need something new to push for. They're for the entire game to grow into, including the Players and the Devs.
    I know it's a pointless rat hole to go down, but that makes absolutely no sense.
    How does it make no sense?
    I asked you to explain why you stated the 7*s are the way to add more longevity to the game and you came back with because top players needing to push isn't the same as players and Devs growing. Now explain to me how that answers the question, because for the life of me it makes no sense to me.
    Besides the fact that I support what DNA just said, I'll break it down.
    A new Rarity is a new acquisition, and a new X amount of Ranks to introduce. That gives X amount of time to design content, work on Rosters, make umpteen decisions, tune things, you name it.
    Adding new Ranks, Items, etc....that just adds another rung to the same acquisition. Sure, that works for people wanting to stop the process, but it doesn't give the game much to grow into. It's just prolongement. As much as people think they want that, it will get old very quickly. Not only that, it limits future content which is planned and designed much longer in advance. Given the current rate of Resource acquisition, it won't take long before the game hits a stalemate.
    The future of the game cannot be limited to working on a new Rank every 6 months to a year, and trying for the occasional OP Champ that people take interest in.
    The real issue is people think they can get to a place where they don't have to grow a Roster, and all that spells is end-game. Literally.
    While I don't agree with your assessment, I appreciate you putting together a much more coherent thought.

    I understand the concept of needing a new "rarity" to chase for the economics of the game and overall balance, but the need for it constantly to be a new star level escapes me. The overall champ pool becomes more diluted month after month and year after year, purely with the introduction of new champs. That alone makes it much harder for a new player to be able to grab the exact champions they want out of the gate and so they must "Chase" as well as existing players who want the latest and greatest. So why again is there a need for a different star?

    And then I guess you're telling me Marvel doesn't have enough characters to sustain continued additions. I will whole heartedly disagree based on 40+ years of reading comics. It is more than possible to maintain a steady influx of new champions without adding stars.

    There is no reason the systems of progression can't be expanded with these news ideas of relics and ascension, so that players are once again "chasing." Adding new ideas and concepts may not be what everyone wants, but at least it keeps things fresh. Adding star levels to the same old champs is boring, stale and lazy.
    Adding stars is not the same thing as adding new champions. At all. New champs bring in new abilities. New Stars bring in the ability to take those champs to higher power levels. The two aren't identical or replaceable by the other.
    You’re missing the point I as making. There was a statement that 7*s were needed instead of just adding levels and ranks to existing champs because players need something to chase after. I’m saying that there can be plenty of things to chase other than a new star level
    There will be. Relics and runes for the relics. Or did you not read the post lol.
    Exactly. Which means no need for 7*s
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 17,409 ★★★★★

    Buttehrs said:

    Buttehrs said:

    why not add a new rank to the existing 6* (r6,r7 ....etc) instead of 7*?

    That wouldn't add the same longevity to the game overall.
    Why not?
    These Rarities aren't just for the Top Players who will need something new to push for. They're for the entire game to grow into, including the Players and the Devs.
    I know it's a pointless rat hole to go down, but that makes absolutely no sense.
    How does it make no sense?
    I asked you to explain why you stated the 7*s are the way to add more longevity to the game and you came back with because top players needing to push isn't the same as players and Devs growing. Now explain to me how that answers the question, because for the life of me it makes no sense to me.
    Besides the fact that I support what DNA just said, I'll break it down.
    A new Rarity is a new acquisition, and a new X amount of Ranks to introduce. That gives X amount of time to design content, work on Rosters, make umpteen decisions, tune things, you name it.
    Adding new Ranks, Items, etc....that just adds another rung to the same acquisition. Sure, that works for people wanting to stop the process, but it doesn't give the game much to grow into. It's just prolongement. As much as people think they want that, it will get old very quickly. Not only that, it limits future content which is planned and designed much longer in advance. Given the current rate of Resource acquisition, it won't take long before the game hits a stalemate.
    The future of the game cannot be limited to working on a new Rank every 6 months to a year, and trying for the occasional OP Champ that people take interest in.
    The real issue is people think they can get to a place where they don't have to grow a Roster, and all that spells is end-game. Literally.
    While I don't agree with your assessment, I appreciate you putting together a much more coherent thought.

    I understand the concept of needing a new "rarity" to chase for the economics of the game and overall balance, but the need for it constantly to be a new star level escapes me. The overall champ pool becomes more diluted month after month and year after year, purely with the introduction of new champs. That alone makes it much harder for a new player to be able to grab the exact champions they want out of the gate and so they must "Chase" as well as existing players who want the latest and greatest. So why again is there a need for a different star?

    And then I guess you're telling me Marvel doesn't have enough characters to sustain continued additions. I will whole heartedly disagree based on 40+ years of reading comics. It is more than possible to maintain a steady influx of new champions without adding stars.

    There is no reason the systems of progression can't be expanded with these news ideas of relics and ascension, so that players are once again "chasing." Adding new ideas and concepts may not be what everyone wants, but at least it keeps things fresh. Adding star levels to the same old champs is boring, stale and lazy.
    Adding stars is not the same thing as adding new champions. At all. New champs bring in new abilities. New Stars bring in the ability to take those champs to higher power levels. The two aren't identical or replaceable by the other.
    You’re missing the point I as making. There was a statement that 7*s were needed instead of just adding levels and ranks to existing champs because players need something to chase after. I’m saying that there can be plenty of things to chase other than a new star level
    There will be. Relics and runes for the relics. Or did you not read the post lol.
    Exactly. Which means no need for 7*s
    Why does that mean there's no need for them?
  • Maverick75Maverick75 Posts: 530 ★★★
    edited September 2022
    2* = bronze
    3* = silver
    4* = gold
    5* = fire
    6* = water
    So 7* frame could be green for the earth/tree or white for the air. But green would be better.

    As a player who saw the rise and the fall of 3*, then of 4*, then 5*, I was not in a hurry to see them for 6*.The 7* mean to keep resources of 6* for them.
    Now it is better to avoid 6* until November...
  • ButtehrsButtehrs Posts: 3,020 ★★★★★

    Buttehrs said:

    Buttehrs said:

    why not add a new rank to the existing 6* (r6,r7 ....etc) instead of 7*?

    That wouldn't add the same longevity to the game overall.
    Why not?
    These Rarities aren't just for the Top Players who will need something new to push for. They're for the entire game to grow into, including the Players and the Devs.
    I know it's a pointless rat hole to go down, but that makes absolutely no sense.
    How does it make no sense?
    I asked you to explain why you stated the 7*s are the way to add more longevity to the game and you came back with because top players needing to push isn't the same as players and Devs growing. Now explain to me how that answers the question, because for the life of me it makes no sense to me.
    Besides the fact that I support what DNA just said, I'll break it down.
    A new Rarity is a new acquisition, and a new X amount of Ranks to introduce. That gives X amount of time to design content, work on Rosters, make umpteen decisions, tune things, you name it.
    Adding new Ranks, Items, etc....that just adds another rung to the same acquisition. Sure, that works for people wanting to stop the process, but it doesn't give the game much to grow into. It's just prolongement. As much as people think they want that, it will get old very quickly. Not only that, it limits future content which is planned and designed much longer in advance. Given the current rate of Resource acquisition, it won't take long before the game hits a stalemate.
    The future of the game cannot be limited to working on a new Rank every 6 months to a year, and trying for the occasional OP Champ that people take interest in.
    The real issue is people think they can get to a place where they don't have to grow a Roster, and all that spells is end-game. Literally.
    While I don't agree with your assessment, I appreciate you putting together a much more coherent thought.

    I understand the concept of needing a new "rarity" to chase for the economics of the game and overall balance, but the need for it constantly to be a new star level escapes me. The overall champ pool becomes more diluted month after month and year after year, purely with the introduction of new champs. That alone makes it much harder for a new player to be able to grab the exact champions they want out of the gate and so they must "Chase" as well as existing players who want the latest and greatest. So why again is there a need for a different star?

    And then I guess you're telling me Marvel doesn't have enough characters to sustain continued additions. I will whole heartedly disagree based on 40+ years of reading comics. It is more than possible to maintain a steady influx of new champions without adding stars.

    There is no reason the systems of progression can't be expanded with these news ideas of relics and ascension, so that players are once again "chasing." Adding new ideas and concepts may not be what everyone wants, but at least it keeps things fresh. Adding star levels to the same old champs is boring, stale and lazy.
    Adding stars is not the same thing as adding new champions. At all. New champs bring in new abilities. New Stars bring in the ability to take those champs to higher power levels. The two aren't identical or replaceable by the other.
    You’re missing the point I as making. There was a statement that 7*s were needed instead of just adding levels and ranks to existing champs because players need something to chase after. I’m saying that there can be plenty of things to chase other than a new star level
    There will be. Relics and runes for the relics. Or did you not read the post lol.
    Exactly. Which means no need for 7*s
    There is a need. The relics only add a small help of small basic ability. New star levels allow the champs to progress to higher ranks and levels which will increase ALL abilities and stats. New stars and ranks will also allow for new progression titles and other backend things. New difficulty levels for eq, story, everest type content etc. All your seeing is the opening or chasing of one or two champs.
  • DanielRandDanielRand Posts: 126 ★★

    Buttehrs said:

    Buttehrs said:

    why not add a new rank to the existing 6* (r6,r7 ....etc) instead of 7*?

    That wouldn't add the same longevity to the game overall.
    Why not?
    These Rarities aren't just for the Top Players who will need something new to push for. They're for the entire game to grow into, including the Players and the Devs.
    I know it's a pointless rat hole to go down, but that makes absolutely no sense.
    How does it make no sense?
    I asked you to explain why you stated the 7*s are the way to add more longevity to the game and you came back with because top players needing to push isn't the same as players and Devs growing. Now explain to me how that answers the question, because for the life of me it makes no sense to me.
    Besides the fact that I support what DNA just said, I'll break it down.
    A new Rarity is a new acquisition, and a new X amount of Ranks to introduce. That gives X amount of time to design content, work on Rosters, make umpteen decisions, tune things, you name it.
    Adding new Ranks, Items, etc....that just adds another rung to the same acquisition. Sure, that works for people wanting to stop the process, but it doesn't give the game much to grow into. It's just prolongement. As much as people think they want that, it will get old very quickly. Not only that, it limits future content which is planned and designed much longer in advance. Given the current rate of Resource acquisition, it won't take long before the game hits a stalemate.
    The future of the game cannot be limited to working on a new Rank every 6 months to a year, and trying for the occasional OP Champ that people take interest in.
    The real issue is people think they can get to a place where they don't have to grow a Roster, and all that spells is end-game. Literally.
    While I don't agree with your assessment, I appreciate you putting together a much more coherent thought.

    I understand the concept of needing a new "rarity" to chase for the economics of the game and overall balance, but the need for it constantly to be a new star level escapes me. The overall champ pool becomes more diluted month after month and year after year, purely with the introduction of new champs. That alone makes it much harder for a new player to be able to grab the exact champions they want out of the gate and so they must "Chase" as well as existing players who want the latest and greatest. So why again is there a need for a different star?

    And then I guess you're telling me Marvel doesn't have enough characters to sustain continued additions. I will whole heartedly disagree based on 40+ years of reading comics. It is more than possible to maintain a steady influx of new champions without adding stars.

    There is no reason the systems of progression can't be expanded with these news ideas of relics and ascension, so that players are once again "chasing." Adding new ideas and concepts may not be what everyone wants, but at least it keeps things fresh. Adding star levels to the same old champs is boring, stale and lazy.
    Adding stars is not the same thing as adding new champions. At all. New champs bring in new abilities. New Stars bring in the ability to take those champs to higher power levels. The two aren't identical or replaceable by the other.
    You’re missing the point I as making. There was a statement that 7*s were needed instead of just adding levels and ranks to existing champs because players need something to chase after. I’m saying that there can be plenty of things to chase other than a new star level
    There will be. Relics and runes for the relics. Or did you not read the post lol.
    Exactly. Which means no need for 7*s
    Why does that mean there's no need for them?
    Because there are other mechanics that will accomplish the same goal things to chase and more powerful champs. This is the laziest option.
  • ButtehrsButtehrs Posts: 3,020 ★★★★★

    Good to see the same old Kabam shills coming out. Look, if you're really fine with this or just here to pooh pooh constructive conversations then troll away, I guess. Personally, I think it's important for Kabam to hear what their customers think and I believe they could work on multiple areas of new content with unit offers wrapped around it (I gave four or so easy examples previously) without just punting on creativity and releasing higher star levels or a gear system that at least anyone in multiple aliance chats I am in on Line are absolutely disgusted by. More of what they are doing well is a good thing, absolutely, and they should focus on that.

    Look I'm no shill. I give kabam plenty of negative feedback or unhappiness due to bugs or what have you, but I also know the difference between how a console game works and a mobile game works. Mobile games are meant to be long lasting, microstransactions that continually progress until the game eventually shuts down. Console games are meant to be short, quick (relatively) games where you get everything at once for the most part with one purchase. This is why they make multiple version of the same console games. Al la final fantasy or what have you. Because they can only do so much with the amount of room they have on the discs. Mobile games are continually evolving because they are essentially computer games on small screens. That's why whatever they decide to go for this game, I'll keep.playing until the time it either shuts down or I'm not having fun anymore because this game is still that, fun.
  • Buttehrs said:

    why not add a new rank to the existing 6* (r6,r7 ....etc) instead of 7*?

    That wouldn't add the same longevity to the game overall.
    Why not?
    These Rarities aren't just for the Top Players who will need something new to push for. They're for the entire game to grow into, including the Players and the Devs.
    I know it's a pointless rat hole to go down, but that makes absolutely no sense.
    How does it make no sense?
    I asked you to explain why you stated the 7*s are the way to add more longevity to the game and you came back with because top players needing to push isn't the same as players and Devs growing. Now explain to me how that answers the question, because for the life of me it makes no sense to me.
    Besides the fact that I support what DNA just said, I'll break it down.
    A new Rarity is a new acquisition, and a new X amount of Ranks to introduce. That gives X amount of time to design content, work on Rosters, make umpteen decisions, tune things, you name it.
    Adding new Ranks, Items, etc....that just adds another rung to the same acquisition. Sure, that works for people wanting to stop the process, but it doesn't give the game much to grow into. It's just prolongement. As much as people think they want that, it will get old very quickly. Not only that, it limits future content which is planned and designed much longer in advance. Given the current rate of Resource acquisition, it won't take long before the game hits a stalemate.
    The future of the game cannot be limited to working on a new Rank every 6 months to a year, and trying for the occasional OP Champ that people take interest in.
    The real issue is people think they can get to a place where they don't have to grow a Roster, and all that spells is end-game. Literally.
    While I don't agree with your assessment, I appreciate you putting together a much more coherent thought.

    I understand the concept of needing a new "rarity" to chase for the economics of the game and overall balance, but the need for it constantly to be a new star level escapes me. The overall champ pool becomes more diluted month after month and year after year, purely with the introduction of new champs. That alone makes it much harder for a new player to be able to grab the exact champions they want out of the gate and so they must "Chase" as well as existing players who want the latest and greatest. So why again is there a need for a different star?

    And then I guess you're telling me Marvel doesn't have enough characters to sustain continued additions. I will whole heartedly disagree based on 40+ years of reading comics. It is more than possible to maintain a steady influx of new champions without adding stars.

    There is no reason the systems of progression can't be expanded with these news ideas of relics and ascension, so that players are once again "chasing." Adding new ideas and concepts may not be what everyone wants, but at least it keeps things fresh. Adding star levels to the same old champs is boring, stale and lazy.
    Adding stars is not the same thing as adding new champions. At all. New champs bring in new abilities. New Stars bring in the ability to take those champs to higher power levels. The two aren't identical or replaceable by the other.
    You’re missing the point I as making. There was a statement that 7*s were needed instead of just adding levels and ranks to existing champs because players need something to chase after. I’m saying that there can be plenty of things to chase other than a new star level
    If it was just a question of making something for players to chase after, Relics would satisfy that requirement. However, that's not why new rarities are added to the game. Or rather, that's not the only reason.

    Players need something to chase that has four very specific properties:

    1. They don't have them yet.
    2. There has to be a way to make a sufficiently diverse pool of them to make collecting them an indefinite activity.
    3. There's no easy way to target the one they want.
    4. When the chase pool becomes sufficiently large that dilution becomes a problem, there is a way to reset this list back to step 1.

    Property one is, or should be, obvious. Property two says: (most) players should not be able to easily just get them all, and new ones should be continuously added. Property three says players shouldn't be able to terminate the chase by just picking the ones they want the most, target them, and then stop.

    Property four is what makes 7* tier replace the 6* tier. For Relics to replace the need for 7* champs, they would have to eventually become 7* champs when they inevitably reach property four. And then they would be 7* champs in all but name, because then there would be the second tier Relics that replace the first tier, and then the third tier Relics that replace the second tier.

    Why not just keep adding new systems, and never have anything have tiers? Because that's an enormous amount of effort for very little gain. We still have a tier system, just disguised. We have 6* champs at tier one, Relics at tier two, Whatever at tier three, and so on, each new tier completely resetting the chase to a completely new set of things, no differently than 7* tier resets the champion chase.

    Maybe this would be cosmetically more attractive, and there would be a whole new set of bells and whistles to distract players, but this would also be completely unsustainable, and still suffer the exact same issue of chase reset. Eventually players would be complaining about the need for entirely new systems to chase after.
  • WfpkstevezillaWfpkstevezilla Posts: 111 ★★
    Why are you doing this, Kabam? All of the user polls on the forums about if people want to see 7* have been overwhelming against it as far as I have seen. If there is a right time for 7* champs, this is not it. There are Kabam employees on record saying 6* launch was not done well but you’re still gonna double down? This is frustrating to the player base. Then again so is a lot of this game. Act 8.1 has been the only shining example of fun gameplay in a while. Hopefully the incursions update adds something. Again, let me add to the sea of voices asking to stop 7* for the time being.
  • Good to see the same old Kabam shills coming out. Look, if you're really fine with this or just here to pooh pooh constructive conversations then troll away, I guess. Personally, I think it's important for Kabam to hear what their customers think and I believe they could work on multiple areas of new content with unit offers wrapped around it (I gave four or so easy examples previously) without just punting on creativity and releasing higher star levels or a gear system that at least anyone in multiple aliance chats I am in on Line are absolutely disgusted by. More of what they are doing well is a good thing, absolutely, and they should focus on that.

    What constructive conversation do you believe is being pooh poohed?

    Personally, I think Kabam should hear what everyone's opinions are, but the forums are explicitly a player discussion forum. It exists to allow players to discuss the game. That includes reasonable and respectful disagreement. Everyone is free to express their opinions, but no one has the right or reasonable expectation that those opinions will go unchallenged.

    If you feel you represent some silent majority of players' opinions, by all means represent those opinions. But don't expect deference just because this is self-evident to you.
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