About cheaters. ( Mods, community pls respond)

I know it’s very frustrating and we got a new team that looks into this a little deeper to ensure the game is clean and fair for everyone.

I’m not accusing anyone in this thread but I would like to get some clarification in the process. Do you guys give cheaters a three strike rule or once they are caught one time…it’s all it takes to get banned? What is the actual process? I continue to face some repeated offenders and I have already reported them. Sandbaggers are part of this or they get a bye?? If any mod or anyone can chime in please do so that way we know when and if anything will get done.

I respect and understand player privacy but when it’s been weeks and they are still hurting the game…. What’s the plan?? This is so irritating… Thank you in advance.

Comments

Pikolu

Kabam won't really give insight into how it works because then cheaters will just push the line as far as they can without getting banned. Also Sandbagging, while unsportsmanlike, isn't considered cheating.

__SF__

@Pikolu how r they not going to give an insight man??? I would hope there is care and interest on those that are spending real money and time without cheating on a game mode that will be very profitable for the company. The mode is amazing until this bs players

Pikolu

@__SF__ like I mentioned before, if they tell us the process, then cheaters will push the process to the limit without getting banned, and that'll make things much worse for us. It sucks, but from a security standpoint, it is bad practice to tell people how you're going to stop them.

DNA3000

I know it’s very frustrating and we got a new team that looks into this a little deeper to ensure the game is clean and fair for everyone.

I’m not accusing anyone in this thread but I would like to get some clarification in the process. Do you guys give cheaters a three strike rule or once they are caught one time…it’s all it takes to get banned? What is the actual process? I continue to face some repeated offenders and I have already reported them. Sandbaggers are part of this or they get a bye?? If any mod or anyone can chime in please do so that way we know when and if anything will get done.

I respect and understand player privacy but when it’s been weeks and they are still hurting the game…. What’s the plan?? This is so irritating… Thank you in advance.

Officially, Kabam does not comment on their official fair play policy internals, beyond the obvious.

Unofficially, as someone that has interacted with the fair play team in the past, I can say that in general the penalties for bannable offenses escalates with infractions. It is pretty common general knowledge that first time offenders typically get one week bans, and then there are higher bans for repeat offenders: 30 day bans are common, and then there are permanent bans. The progression often follows a three strike system, but that's not a rule set in stone.

There are situations where accounts can draw permanent bans immediately, however. I won't list all the ways I know this can happen, but in general if an account doesn't seem to have much "skin in the game" - i.e. there's little human time or money invested in it - it is more likely to be permanently banned immediately for certain offenses. And there are certain very egregious offenses that can draw permanent bans at Kabam's discretion.

Precisely when and why they hand out certain punishments, and their policies regarding punishment (non) disclosure are things wrapped up in corporate policy and internal legal directives, none of which they will ever likely publicly disclose.

At the moment, I do not believe deck manipulation strategies (commonly referred to as sandbagging in BG) are not, as far as I'm aware, bannable infractions. They are considered anti-competitive acts that Kabam wants to take action on, but I do not believe banning the accounts themselves is one of those actions at the moment.

K00shMaan

@Pikolu how r they not going to give an insight man??? I would hope there is care and interest on those that are spending real money and time without cheating on a game mode that will be very profitable for the company. The mode is amazing until this bs players

They can tell us what is cheating and what will have consequences but like Pikolu said it's best not to reveal exactly what will happen to those people so that they can speculate that the repercussions will be much worse. Also, I know people might not want to hear this, but all cheating is not equal and different acts will have different consequences.

Chatterofforums

I know it’s very frustrating and we got a new team that looks into this a little deeper to ensure the game is clean and fair for everyone.

I’m not accusing anyone in this thread but I would like to get some clarification in the process. Do you guys give cheaters a three strike rule or once they are caught one time…it’s all it takes to get banned? What is the actual process? I continue to face some repeated offenders and I have already reported them. Sandbaggers are part of this or they get a bye?? If any mod or anyone can chime in please do so that way we know when and if anything will get done.

I respect and understand player privacy but when it’s been weeks and they are still hurting the game…. What’s the plan?? This is so irritating… Thank you in advance.

Where you lost me is when you grouped in sandbagging with cheaters/mod users. Contrary to misinformation some people keep misquoting, kabam has never ever said sandbagging was cheating. Mod users have been publicly noted as cheaters and TOS violators.

Can you argue sandbagging is unethical or "unsportsman like" sure you can probably argue that, but it is not against the rules nor is it cheating.

mgj0630

As I just pointed out in another thread, I would like an explanation as to why we, the players, can't identify blatant cheaters on the forums.

Sure, there may be some here that would abuse it, and even more that may think they fought a cheaters when it was in fact an honest fight, but we all know 5*r4 champs aren't going to defeat 6*r3 defenders in <10 seconds.

As players, we should be able to post images with that players in-game name, for the cheating czar to immediately investigate and subsequently ban when the cheating is confirmed.

Instead, Kabam chooses to rely on a report button, that is likely also abused by folks, and provides zero transparency to what happens next, which if anything at all, is weeks later.

Basically, if Kabam genuinely cared about the widespread cheating in BGs, they should <b class="Bold">welcome posts from the community showing them exactly who to look at.

I'm certainly open to hearing from anyone who thinks I'm wrong, but I honestly can't think of anything.

__SF__

@DNA3000 thanks for your insight man

DNA3000

As I just pointed out in another thread, I would like an explanation as to why we, the players, can't identify blatant cheaters on the forums.

Sure, there may be some here that would abuse it, and even more that may think they fought a cheaters when it was in fact an honest fight, but we all know 5*r4 champs aren't going to defeat 6*r3 defenders in <10 seconds.

As players, we should be able to post images with that players in-game name, for the cheating czar to immediately investigate and subsequently ban when the cheating is confirmed.

Instead, Kabam chooses to rely on a report button, that is likely also abused by folks, and provides zero transparency to what happens next, which if anything at all, is weeks later.

Basically, if Kabam genuinely cared about the widespread cheating in BGs, they should <b class="Bold">welcome posts from the community showing them exactly who to look at.

I'm certainly open to hearing from anyone who thinks I'm wrong, but I honestly can't think of anything.

You are not allowed to do this because Kabam's legal team has instructed both the developers and the community team to disallow such things. There is nothing you or I or anyone else could possibly say that could possibly convince either the developers or the community team to ignore the directives from legal counsel.

It is as simple as that. Lawyers say they can't, so we can't, period. Why the lawyers tell them to do this doesn't matter, because no matter what the reasons are, we can't argue with them as they don't present their legal reasoning for review on public forums.

This is something that I learned long ago from trying to investigate this situation myself but this was not publicly acknowledged by anyone at Kabam until recently when I believe Jax echoed the same basic idea on a recent podcast. This policy is basically Word of God, and in this case God does not host AMAs.

__SF__

@Chatterofforums I put it out there not assuming that is cheating but to your point “poor sportsmanship” u don’t see much of this in glads circle but for the best games sake… I hope some of this folks are held accountable. Mods, etc.

mgj0630

@DNA3000 I've heard the legal argument before, and while I don't necessarily buy it (the logic, not the fact that it exists), it still ignores one major point.

That legal excuse pertains to what's allowed...in other words, we're not allowed to call out cheaters...okay. But Kabam can't control what I post, only how they respond to it. So if I create a thread calling out a blatant cheater, the mods' responsibility is to close that post, great. But when they see that post, they could do something with the information that was included in it. There's nothing illegal about that.

If I walk into a police department today and make claims to someone plotting a crime, they can choose to follow up on that, or ignore it. If it was a completely false claim by me, they can take action against me after the fact. This is frankly, the exact same situation.

Take the information, investigate, take an appropriate action. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm certain there's nothing illegal about that, besides the possibility that I, as the accuser, am making completely baseless claims, and if that's the determination, then take action against me.

And ultimately, where is it defined that its illegal? If it's against the ToS, then they have the power to change the ToS...it's their game.

If it's against a public law that they can't override, then it's public information, and they can share the laws they feel would be in violation.

frodo2377

Isn't that esentially opening a support ticket....just not publicly?

DNA3000

@DNA3000 I've heard the legal argument before, and while I don't necessarily buy it (the logic, not the fact that it exists), it still ignores one major point.

That legal excuse pertains to what's allowed...in other words, we're not allowed to call out cheaters...okay. But Kabam can't control what I post, only how they respond to it. So if I create a thread calling out a blatant cheater, the mods' responsibility is to close that post, great. But when they see that post, they could do something with the information that was included in it. There's nothing illegal about that.

If I walk into a police department today and make claims to someone plotting a crime, they can choose to follow up on that, or ignore it. If it was a completely false claim by me, they can take action against me after the fact. This is frankly, the exact same situation.

Take the information, investigate, take an appropriate action. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm certain there's nothing illegal about that, besides the possibility that I, as the accuser, am making completely baseless claims, and if that's the determination, then take action against me.

And ultimately, where is it defined that its illegal? If it's against the ToS, then they have the power to change the ToS...it's their game.

If it's against a public law that they can't override, then it's public information, and they can share the laws they feel would be in violation.

You don't understand what I'm saying. I'm not making an argument. I'm not saying it is illegal. I'm stating the objective fact that Kabam legal counsel directs Kabam staff to take these actions. When your legal department tells you not to do something, it doesn't matter if it is illegal or not. What they are saying is they are unwilling or unable to support those actions, and any consequences thereof. So disobeying legal counsel is in effect taking personal responsibility for any consequences that happens.

It also probably means being fired.

They do sometimes act on information posted on the forums, but it is not the moderators' jobs to filter forum posts looking for cheating. Kabam provides the means for players to report cheating: they can open a support ticket. If you believe Kabam will ignore those tickets, there's no reason to believe they will act on forum posts either.

If you walk into a police department and tell them someone is planning a crime, that's equivalent to opening a support ticket. If you post on the forums that someone is a cheater, that's like posting on the forums that someone is planning to commit a crime. They can sue you. And if you don't have proof, they will probably win. And even if you somehow win, it is going to cost you a lot of money to defend, as libel suits are rarely resolved in small claims court.

mgj0630

@DNA3000 I do understand what you're saying, but I'm not entirely sure you understand what I'm saying.

I'm not suggesting in any way, shape, or form they Kabam change their process for determining if someone is cheating or not. What I'm suggesting is that the process can be more focused.

As it is today, if I face a cheater in BGs, I press the report button. From that point, I can only assume the process goes like this:

The reported player's name goes into a file on a server somewhere, and at some interval, they check those accounts for the known methods of modding. At the conclusion of that investigation, the player has no action taken, or is banned for some period of time.

What I'm suggesting is merely expediting that process through a means of communication, likely through a forum moderator, wherein a screen shot is posted of something that clearly doesn't add up. A moderator agrees or disagrees, and if they agree, they go offline and say to the Cheating Czar "Hey, you need to look into this account". From this point, the process returns to that of the current system where an investigation is started and a decision is made at the conclusion of that investigation.

When you reference the legal concerns over libel, that's only applicable if a direct accusation is made and proven to be wrong.

If however a screen shot is posted of a 6 second win, and I ask "Does this make sense?" or "Has anyone else ever won a fight this fast?" no accusation is being made.

Kabam however, has an account they can look into, and who knows, possibly even catch a new method of modding that their current systems miss, because as I've seen you say before, Kabam won't talk about how they identify cheaters, cause then the cheaters know how to work around it. In this case, they may catch someone who's already working around their current safeguards, and Kabam wouldn't know.

Again, I appreciate where you're coming from that the legal counsel has given guidance. That's their job, and their job is to take the safest approach to protect their client. I've dealt with legal counsel in my job more than a few times, and that is always their stance. My job as an employee needing to get something done, is to work with them to figure out how to get to a "yes, you can do that." answer.

Demonzfyre

@DNA3000 I do understand what you're saying, but I'm not entirely sure you understand what I'm saying.

I'm not suggesting in any way, shape, or form they Kabam change their process for determining if someone is cheating or not. What I'm suggesting is that the process can be more focused.

As it is today, if I face a cheater in BGs, I press the report button. From that point, I can only assume the process goes like this:

The reported player's name goes into a file on a server somewhere, and at some interval, they check those accounts for the known methods of modding. At the conclusion of that investigation, the player has no action taken, or is banned for some period of time.

What I'm suggesting is merely expediting that process through a means of communication, likely through a forum moderator, wherein a screen shot is posted of something that clearly doesn't add up. A moderator agrees or disagrees, and if they agree, they go offline and say to the Cheating Czar "Hey, you need to look into this account". From this point, the process returns to that of the current system where an investigation is started and a decision is made at the conclusion of that investigation.

When you reference the legal concerns over libel, that's only applicable if a direct accusation is made and proven to be wrong.

If however a screen shot is posted of a 6 second win, and I ask "Does this make sense?" or "Has anyone else ever won a fight this fast?" no accusation is being made.

Kabam however, has an account they can look into, and who knows, possibly even catch a new method of modding that their current systems miss, because as I've seen you say before, Kabam won't talk about how they identify cheaters, cause then the cheaters know how to work around it. In this case, they may catch someone who's already working around their current safeguards, and Kabam wouldn't know.

Again, I appreciate where you're coming from that the legal counsel has given guidance. That's their job, and their job is to take the safest approach to protect their client. I've dealt with legal counsel in my job more than a few times, and that is always their stance. My job as an employee needing to get something done, is to work with them to figure out how to get to a "yes, you can do that." answer.

You're assuming they don't pass along the info. You don't have any proof that they do or don't.

frodo2377

I can only speak from my own experience when reporting an account that was obviously modding back when BGs were still in the beta phase. I had opened a ticket with screenshots. Kabam had replied stating that they would investigate. I kept my eye on the account and watched it continue to be active. I responded back to Kabam a few days later stating that this account was still active. They assured me it was being investigated. All in all it took close to 10 days to ban the account. It is not a speedy process for sure.

Kabam Zibiit

Hey there, as others have mentioned, we are not able to get into details on the forums about our processes for finding and punishing cheaters, as doing so could make it easier for them to try and get around them. There are many reasons for the forum rule prohibiting call-out posts, one of which is to avoid players dog-piling one person or starting witch hunts based on limited information. We do not want situations where folks can throw accusations around and start treating each other as guilty until proven innocent, as this could be easy to manipulate and ultimately make it harder for the team to sort through the reports and take action on them.

Additionally, as we've mentioned before, if you have evidence or screenshots that you think could help an investigation, you can submit that info to the Support Team to open an investigation and pass the info along directly to the folks who will be conducting the investigation. You can reach them from the game’s home screen by clicking the gear-shaped icon in the top-left corner of the screen and scrolling down to the button labeled “Support”. You can also reach them here.