Getting Rid of the Armor Up Buff?

DrZola

Advice please:

I’ve run into two instances where mystic attackers (Mephisto and Sigwitch) didn’t seem to get rid of the defenders’ Armor Up like I would have expected.

With Mephisto, Gorr gained Armor Up while Soul Imprisonment was still active. I’m not very familiar with Gorr, but does he have some ability accuracy that Mephisto’s abilities cannot affect?

Similarly, with Sigwitch against KM, Sigwitch supposedly has a 100% chance to nullify one buff with a well-timed block. Again, it didn’t work that way, making me wonder what I’m missing about KM. Multiple parries failed to remove any buff.

If this sounds like a noob post, then yes, I am surely a noob. I would greatly appreciate if someone could point out what I am missing about these interactions.

Dr. Zola

Savage123456789

If your are in GC then it's probably one of the nodes. If still in victory track then not sure

DrZola

Nope. Just started in VT.

Dr. Zola

TheBair123

Savage123456789 said:

If your are in GC then it's probably one of the nodes. If still in victory track then not sure

if anyone is in gc already i'd advise them to seek help and touch grass

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DrZola

qm44 said:

Don't know much about sigwitch, but I play km a lot. It might be because his vibranium armor is a passive effect? Not sure how that interacts but reading his abilities it seems like you might have to armor break him in order to remove it.

That was a thought I had initially, but I didn’t expect to nullify it with Sigwitch parried. What I wanted to get rid of was the Armor Up buff that comes from 10 hits and the Hit Me node.

I’m seeing people with issues with the effectiveness of neutralize so maybe it’s something else.

Dr. Zola

Giantslayer88

I also had issues with SW Sigil not nullifying armor up buffs. She seems to be nullifying everything else, but I watched closely in my last fight against Corvus and she doesn’t remove the node armor up buff on well timed blocks. Thinking I may post in bugs since I’m not the only one with an issue using her. Really thought she would be a perfect counter.

Havanaknight

I need to test with Wiccan and rintrah, but Tigra’s neutralize doesn’t work as I would expect either.

“At 10 all charges are removed and the defender gains an armor up buff.” I would’ve expected the interaction to be similar to tigra vs thing (neutralize up at 15 rock, no unstoppable and counter resets to 12). Instead, the chitin counter gets stuck on 10 until neutralize falls off. Once it falls off, defender gets an armor up buff.

sirderekoflane

Havanaknight said:

I need to test with Wiccan and rintrah, but Tigra’s neutralize doesn’t work as I would expect either.

“At 10 all charges are removed and the defender gains an armor up buff.” I would’ve expected the interaction to be similar to tigra vs thing (neutralize up at 15 rock, no unstoppable and counter resets to 12). Instead, the chitin counter gets stuck on 10 until neutralize falls off. Once it falls off, defender gets an armor up buff.

I can’t get tigra to prevent armour up either

Havanaknight

Claire’s s2 buff immunity has the same interaction. It seems as if there is something preventing the buff, the charges won’t reset. Granted, this works to Claire’s advantage since it counts as an immunity. And then when the immunity ends she can nullify everything.

@Kabam Jax can you get clarifications? I don’t think this is the correct interaction. Charges should reset at 10, regardless if the buff activates.

Unyonface

Havanaknight said:

I need to test with Wiccan and rintrah, but Tigra’s neutralize doesn’t work as I would expect either.

“At 10 all charges are removed and the defender gains an armor up buff.” I would’ve expected the interaction to be similar to tigra vs thing (neutralize up at 15 rock, no unstoppable and counter resets to 12). Instead, the chitin counter gets stuck on 10 until neutralize falls off. Once it falls off, defender gets an armor up buff.

I got destroyed when I used Wiccan, His neutralize wasn’t very effective….

Yodabolt21

Same here. Sigil Witch nullify failed against Korg (never has happened and I have used her dozens of times against him). And the failed again against Dragon Man. Something is definitely not working as intended.

zerodude

I've run in a different problem, I used Terrax against a Cap Falcon, as my terrax is awakened it starts with the rock field active, but it didn't trigger any armor break, nor messages of immune. Am I missing something?

It was my first fight on this season, so there was no node preventing the debuff, besides me someone faced something alike?

Klipp

zerodude said:

I've run in a different problem, I used Terrax against a Cap Falcon, as my terrax is awakened it starts with the rock field active, but it didn't trigger any armor break, nor messages of immune. Am I missing something?

It was my first fight on this season, so there was no node preventing the debuff, besides me someone faced something alike?

I believe you just ran into the joys of RNG. I have a max sig terrax and sometimes he places 2 armor breaks sometimes 7. Btw not sure if you are aware but terrax is only power burn immune to metal champs which cap wilson is not unless you were talking about just normal falcon

zerodude

Probably, but I just got annoyed that I didn't nullified the default armor cap Wilson has, with the rock field active for a while, not even a single debuff was placed.

Usually the minimum you get is one, but I can't replicate the scenario to make sure.

Have to say that if they keep those nodes active I might just skip BG this season.

AMS94

Havanaknight said:

I need to test with Wiccan and rintrah, but Tigra’s neutralize doesn’t work as I would expect either.

“At 10 all charges are removed and the defender gains an armor up buff.” I would’ve expected the interaction to be similar to tigra vs thing (neutralize up at 15 rock, no unstoppable and counter resets to 12). Instead, the chitin counter gets stuck on 10 until neutralize falls off. Once it falls off, defender gets an armor up buff.

Even with Rintrah it's tough to keep an 100% uptime of Neutralize specially in buff heavy matchups
In most fights 1 or 2 Armors will slip in at some point, specially against Non-Cosmics

I used Wiccan against a Korg....he can work but still not a completely safe option
My opponent had the same matchup & his Wiccan got absolutely destroyed by Korg, which indicates that he either didn't know how to use him or his effectiveness is too reliant on defender AI

zuffy

I have 2 questionable fights and I would like opinions if anyone think it's possible

1) Suicide R3 BWDO vs R3 Colossus. That person killed Colossus in 26 seconds.
2) R3 BWCV vs R3 Mephisto. Not crazy fast but killed Mephisto in 64 seconds

Klipp

zuffy said:

I have 2 questionable fights and I would like opinions if anyone think it's possible

1) Suicide R3 BWDO vs R3 Colossus. That person killed Colossus in 26 seconds.
2) R3 BWCV vs R3 Mephisto. Not crazy fast but killed Mephisto in 64 seconds

1. I don’t know much about her sabotage but I don’t think that’s very possible with this meta

2. Claire is much more doable. I’ve done it in 80ish seconds

Hort4

I thought if you had an armor break active then you don’t take damage when hitting. I used Terrax offense a couple times and get several armor breaks going and refresh with MLLLL but I still take huge damage. What am I missing?

mgj0630

Hort4 said:

I thought if you had an armor break active then you don’t take damage when hitting. I used Terrax offense a couple times and get several armor breaks going and refresh with MLLLL but I still take huge damage. What am I missing?

The number of armor breaks don't matter on this node. If an armor up still procs, regardless of how many armor breaks are present, you'll still take damage when power burned (and Terrax is only immune to power burn against #metal).

zuffy

OK, I am seeing that Doom is in the counter list but each time I use him I am dead from power burn. My opponent is using Doom and they actually finished the fight or last longer. Obviously, I am using him wrong. What is the proper way to play Doom in this meta?

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Pikolu

zuffy said:

OK, I am seeing that Doom is in the counter list but each time I use him I am dead from power burn. My opponent is using Doom and they actually finished the fight or last longer. Obviously, I am using him wrong. What is the proper way to play Doom in this meta?

Heavy stagger removes the enemy armor ups on your 10th hits. You 100% need to have these staggers before they get an armor up or you'll have a bad time.

Havanaknight

Just keeping a running list at this point. Hood vs Apoc. Used an s2 so he was fate sealed. Once again, stayed at 10 charges. This is consistent with interactions for other buff prevention methods in this method. According to the description, the charges should reset after 10 even if the buff doesn’t proc.

Note: there is a small chance this was due to AA reduction (but unlikely)

Mcoc_Play3r

Kabam!!! Do something. So frustrated at this new meta!!!!

Moosetiptronic

Havanaknight said:

Just keeping a running list at this point. Hood vs Apoc. Used an s2 so he was fate sealed. Once again, stayed at 10 charges. This is consistent with interactions for other buff prevention methods in this method. According to the description, the charges should reset after 10 even if the buff doesn’t proc.

Note: there is a small chance this was due to AA reduction (but unlikely)

@Havanaknight hood also has the same issue as wiccan and tigra on the 10 count not resetting if his staggers are up, as well.

Havanaknight

Moosetiptronic said:

Havanaknight said:

Just keeping a running list at this point. Hood vs Apoc. Used an s2 so he was fate sealed. Once again, stayed at 10 charges. This is consistent with interactions for other buff prevention methods in this method. According to the description, the charges should reset after 10 even if the buff doesn’t proc.

Note: there is a small chance this was due to AA reduction (but unlikely)

@Havanaknight hood also has the same issue as wiccan and tigra on the 10 count not resetting if his staggers are up, as well.

Yep. Though I think it’s because of the s2 fate seal and not stagger. With stagger, the buff procs, but then is immediately cancelled. Whereas fate seal and neutralize suppress the buff from triggering in the first place. I’m pretty sure they coded it to reset charges after the armor up triggers when it should really go the other way around. I’m willing to bet that if s99 or Titania or other buff immune champs were used as a defender, they’d stay at 10 charges (with no effect of course)

Magrailothos

Havanaknight said:

Moosetiptronic said:

Havanaknight said:

Just keeping a running list at this point. Hood vs Apoc. Used an s2 so he was fate sealed. Once again, stayed at 10 charges. This is consistent with interactions for other buff prevention methods in this method. According to the description, the charges should reset after 10 even if the buff doesn’t proc.

Note: there is a small chance this was due to AA reduction (but unlikely)

@Havanaknight hood also has the same issue as wiccan and tigra on the 10 count not resetting if his staggers are up, as well.

Yep. Though I think it’s because of the s2 fate seal and not stagger. With stagger, the buff procs, but then is immediately cancelled. Whereas fate seal and neutralize suppress the buff from triggering in the first place. I’m pretty sure they coded it to reset charges after the armor up triggers when it should really go the other way around. I’m willing to bet that if s99 or Titania or other buff immune champs were used as a defender, they’d stay at 10 charges (with no effect of course)

This is absolutely right.

I've noticed it happening in AQ when the defender is a Mystic Ultron drone (who can't gain any 'beneficial effects') with a Hit Me,I dare you node.

Deacon

sirderekoflane said:

Havanaknight said:

I need to test with Wiccan and rintrah, but Tigra’s neutralize doesn’t work as I would expect either.

“At 10 all charges are removed and the defender gains an armor up buff.” I would’ve expected the interaction to be similar to tigra vs thing (neutralize up at 15 rock, no unstoppable and counter resets to 12). Instead, the chitin counter gets stuck on 10 until neutralize falls off. Once it falls off, defender gets an armor up buff.

I can’t get tigra to prevent armour up either

i removed her from my deck for this reason .. it just wasn't consistent at all.

DrZola

Is there any doubt at this stage that it’s (generally) a coding issue? Trying to separate out the several types of interactions here and I’m not sure they are all the same. In VT at least, there shouldn’t be any other nodes affecting the interaction.

Dr. Zola

Havanaknight

DrZola said:

Is there any doubt at this stage that it’s (generally) a coding issue? Trying to separate out the several types of interactions here and I’m not sure they are all the same. In VT at least, there shouldn’t be any other nodes affecting the interaction.

Dr. Zola

Somewhere in the hundreds of active threads about battlegrounds there was a comment from Jax that the dev team is aware and it should be fixed for the next build. I feel so naked without my tigra. Just glad nobody has used sersi or galan as defenders on me.