About Magik

Just got absolutely rinsed by a magik in cav eq. I totally get why she hasn't been released as a 6* yet. But, couldn't kabam add a restriction to triggering magik's limbo; like that of doom's aura (slow and petrify) and tigra's unblockable (weakness, slow or exhaustion). This would just make sense imo. Reinforces the class dynamic and also move's away from fun and interactive dmg. This may have been brought up before but what are your thoughts on it?

Comments

Yodabolt21

AA can stop limbo from activating.

Mysterio

What about limbo cannot activate against science champs?

I think that's a fair limit that allows for some legit counters to her fun and interactive damage without making the champion suddenly bad to play with.

Sachhyam257

AA can stop limbo from activating.

So can Blade, but overall there aren't many champs that can take down a stacked magik.

ItsDamien

Pushing Magik over a bar of power with either Omega Red and Gambits medium attacks won’t deal limbo damage if she procs it. Gulk will heal a bunch of the damage from her limbo too.

Sachhyam257

Pushing Magik over a bar of power with either Omega Red and Gambits medium attacks won’t deal limbo damage if she procs it. Gulk will heal a bunch of the damage from her limbo too.

Didn't know that about Gambit, but realistically would you want to sacrifice a spot on your team to bring in Gulk or Gambit?

Squirrelguy

There are ways to get around the damage such as masteries that lower AA during parry stuns (or other AA reduction methods like neurotoxins), simple regeneration, champions who get immortality buffs (and similar mechanics), champions who resist energy damage (which is what limbo deals), etc. You can also decrease the likelihood that limbo will trigger if you don't push her to higher special attacks.

I don't think it is really OP, and Magik is a kinda simple character already, so taking away one of her few abilities or limiting it seems needless.

As a side note, I hate that Kabam is not more clear on certain abilities, such as Magik's sig.

"...chances are multiplied by 99.96%." literally means that a 10% chance of an ability triggering would get multiplied by .9996, which would actually decrease the likelihood of the ability triggering ( .10 x .9996 = .09996 or 9.996%). There are a ton of interactions and underlying game mechanics that could be better described and would make more sense to the average gamer. (I'm glad that they finally stated in-game that armor breaks count as nullification, but that is another example of a known mechanic that wasn't directly alluded to or easily intuitive to new players.)

Maybe DNA can just have a podcast where the mysteries of MCOC math are explained for the whole community or something. Or, Kabam could include the intent behind certain ability descriptions as to improve player comprehension.

ItsDamien

Pushing Magik over a bar of power with either Omega Red and Gambits medium attacks won’t deal limbo damage if she procs it. Gulk will heal a bunch of the damage from her limbo too.
Didn't know that about Gambit, but realistically would you want to sacrifice a spot on your team to bring in Gulk or Gambit?

Gambit isn’t a sacrifice. Gambit is incredible. Make him a horseman for even more awesomeness.

Sachhyam257

Pushing Magik over a bar of power with either Omega Red and Gambits medium attacks won’t deal limbo damage if she procs it. Gulk will heal a bunch of the damage from her limbo too.
Didn't know that about Gambit, but realistically would you want to sacrifice a spot on your team to bring in Gulk or Gambit?
Gambit isn’t a sacrifice. Gambit is incredible. Make him a horseman for even more awesomeness.

I did recently get him as a 6* so I'll check that out I guess...

PantherusNZ

It's funny, I was just thinking the other day how much Magik used to be THE ultimate meta defender, but nowadays she's almost non-existant

Yodabolt21

Pushing Magik over a bar of power with either Omega Red and Gambits medium attacks won’t deal limbo damage if she procs it. Gulk will heal a bunch of the damage from her limbo too.
Didn't know that about Gambit, but realistically would you want to sacrifice a spot on your team to bring in Gulk or Gambit?

Is it a "sacrifice" though if it saves you revives and or potions to deal with Magik?

And both are solid champs anyway. Not the best, but certainly useable.

Squirrelguy

Tried to comment a while ago but apparently editing the comment got it sent for review, so maybe this will get through.

There are a number of ways to deal with limbo such as AAR either from neurotoxins or just masteries that reduce it on parry stuns, simple regeneration, power control (Magik is one of the best Magik counters ironically), phasing during it like with Ghost/Kitty, keeping her at lower bars of power so it has a lower chance to proc, using champs that have high energy resistance as it is energy damage, champs that have an immortality mechanic, the list goes on.

I don't see why one of her limited mechanics should be changed. She isn't complicated and there are a wide variety of ways to deal with her, and while nobody is "immune", I don't think there needs to be anyone.

As a side note, I really hate how her sig reads: "Magik has a 25% chance to enter a state of Limbo...... Based on current Signature Level, chances are multiplied by {2-99.96}%." There are also several other instances (and I somehow can't remember the others off the top of my head) where Kabam does a similar thing. If a 25% chance to trigger is being multiplied by 2%, that would make it a (.25 x .02 = .005) .5% chance of triggering, and only with max sig could you get close to the original stated 25% chance. I guess this would make some sense, except that clearly Kabam means that (by the wording of an additional 12.5% chance being added to the OG 25% chance) with max sig, Magik should at 1 bar of power be able to have ~50% chance to trigger (which would be adding an additional ~100% to the 25% chance, not multiplying it by ~100%, which is literally 1).

Now DNA is welcome to come in and explain all of the actual math behind the scenes and why things are done the way that they are, and I'd be glad to learn, but this just has never made sense to me. Am I reading it wrong? or are all of my math professors currently spinning in their urns?

PantherusNZ

Here's a discussion thread from 2.5 years ago, asking the same questions. Some things never change, I guess

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1414778

Sachhyam257

Tried to comment a while ago but apparently editing the comment got it sent for review, so maybe this will get through.

There are a number of ways to deal with limbo such as AAR either from neurotoxins or just masteries that reduce it on parry stuns, simple regeneration, power control (Magik is one of the best Magik counters ironically), phasing during it like with Ghost/Kitty, keeping her at lower bars of power so it has a lower chance to proc, using champs that have high energy resistance as it is energy damage, champs that have an immortality mechanic, the list goes on.

I don't see why one of her limited mechanics should be changed. She isn't complicated and there are a wide variety of ways to deal with her, and while nobody is "immune", I don't think there needs to be anyone.

As a side note, I really hate how her sig reads: "Magik has a 25% chance to enter a state of Limbo...... Based on current Signature Level, chances are multiplied by {2-99.96}%." There are also several other instances (and I somehow can't remember the others off the top of my head) where Kabam does a similar thing. If a 25% chance to trigger is being multiplied by 2%, that would make it a (.25 x .02 = .005) .5% chance of triggering, and only with max sig could you get close to the original stated 25% chance. I guess this would make some sense, except that clearly Kabam means that (by the wording of an additional 12.5% chance being added to the OG 25% chance) with max sig, Magik should at 1 bar of power be able to have ~50% chance to trigger (which would be adding an additional ~100% to the 25% chance, not multiplying it by ~100%, which is literally 1).

Now DNA is welcome to come in and explain all of the actual math behind the scenes and why things are done the way that they are, and I'd be glad to learn, but this just has never made sense to me. Am I reading it wrong? or are all of my math professors currently spinning in their urns?

If it were that simple to deal with magik, they would've already released her as a 6*. A stacked magik is already difficult to deal with without the right counter, add in a variety of nodes - her list of counters get even smaller. One of the reasons why you don't see many magik bosses, if any. That's why I was thinking about how they could potentially balance her to maybe release the 6* at some point in time.

Maxwell2454

The perfect way to balance her would be to remove all her power control capabilites and her limbo

DRTO

No, some champs are difficult to fight and have unavoidable damage, but there's always counters to these champs. Same argument could be said for Korg or Dormammu, but there are champs that counter their defensive abilities, and same goes for magik. She's perfectly fine as is.

unknown

This content has been removed.

Magrailothos

If she were developed now, I can see your solution being adopted, for example Limbo failing if she were indicted with Wither or Exhaustion.

But as we are in the game now, I'd say that there's already enough people who can counter Magik to a greater or lesser extent.

Blade, sure. But any AAR champion will work - practically half the Skill class can reduce the chance of Limbo proccing by at least half (Black Widow, Black Widow Deadly Origin, Daredevil HK, Elektra, Black Cat, Black Panther, Crossbones, Falcon, Gwenpool, Hit Monkey, Karnak, Kingpin, Masacre, Ronin, Taskmaster). Non-skill options would include Archangel, Domino, and Joe Fixit.

If you can't reduce her Ability accuracy, you can reduce her combat Power with Punisher-2099, Psylocke, Darkhawk, Dormammu, Quake or Mr Fantastic.

Or you could just tank the damage with Ghulk, Namor, or anyone with high Energy resistance - Bishop, Havok, Yellowjacket, Mordo, Awakened Guardian, and War Machine with prefight can fight Magik and barely register the Limbo damage.

Even just counting through the champs I've named, that's 34 champions who can substantially reduce the frequency that Limbo will happen, or the damage it'll do to them.

So to be honest, I don't think that she needs to be given a new weakness. And I think if she were given that weakness, then she'd merit a increase in her base chance to proc Limbo, to balance it. So she'd become much easier for a few champions, and slightly harder for all the others.

So, on the whole, I'd vote to keep her how she is.

Sachhyam257

If she were developed now, I can see your solution being adopted, for example Limbo failing if she were indicted with Wither or Exhaustion.

But as we are in the game now, I'd say that there's already enough people who can counter Magik to a greater or lesser extent.

Blade, sure. But any AAR champion will work - practically half the Skill class can reduce the chance of Limbo proccing by at least half (Black Widow, Black Widow Deadly Origin, Daredevil HK, Elektra, Black Cat, Black Panther, Crossbones, Falcon, Gwenpool, Hit Monkey, Karnak, Kingpin, Masacre, Ronin, Taskmaster). Non-skill options would include Archangel, Domino, and Joe Fixit.

If you can't reduce her Ability accuracy, you can reduce her combat Power with Punisher-2099, Psylocke, Darkhawk, Dormammu, Quake or Mr Fantastic.

Or you could just tank the damage with Ghulk, Namor, or anyone with high Energy resistance - Bishop, Havok, Yellowjacket, Mordo, Awakened Guardian, and War Machine with prefight can fight Magik and barely register the Limbo damage.

Even just counting through the champs I've named, that's 34 champions who can substantially reduce the frequency that Limbo will happen, or the damage it'll do to them.

So to be honest, I don't think that she needs to be given a new weakness. And I think if she were given that weakness, then she'd merit a increase in her base chance to proc Limbo, to balance it. So she'd become much easier for a few champions, and slightly harder for all the others.

So, on the whole, I'd vote to keep her how she is.

That is a good point, but the way she is now, she won't be entering the 6* pool anytime soon. Plus, champs that reduce AAR can only do so much, she will trigger a few limbos regardless (most champs don't reduce 100% AA), and champs that reduce combat power gain can only limit the number of times she triggers limbo. Even a single limbo from a stacked up Magik could destroy your healthpool in a matter of seconds. So alot of the counters you mentioned would just be 'half-measures/stopgaps' against her. That's currently only fine because she is available upto a 5* level, and kabam have been extra careful when placing her in quests.

Honestly, I don't care if she hits the 6* pool or not. I've just enjoyed having this discussion, lol.

NastyPhish

She was just in the mystic chapter of TB EQ also. 7* magik eats r3s in two limbo cycles. Had to back out and bring blade. Ez claps.

But it’s not any worse than the bishop in the mutant cleanse path (where by design he punishes you for cleansing. Even from the node.)

Or Guilly in the mystic chapter. Because almost every mystic takes energy damage back. (Slight exaggeration).

Or sersei in cosmic chapter with nullify immunity.

These aren’t accidental.

Coming next month, King Groot on “Do you Bleed”

Cat_Murdock

I know some counters exist to Limbo, but it’s still such an incredibly poo mechanic and the damage is ridiculous

Tried to comment a while ago but apparently editing the comment got it sent for review, so maybe this will get through.

There are a number of ways to deal with limbo such as AAR either from neurotoxins or just masteries that reduce it on parry stuns, simple regeneration, power control (Magik is one of the best Magik counters ironically), phasing during it like with Ghost/Kitty, keeping her at lower bars of power so it has a lower chance to proc, using champs that have high energy resistance as it is energy damage, champs that have an immortality mechanic, the list goes on.

I don't see why one of her limited mechanics should be changed. She isn't complicated and there are a wide variety of ways to deal with her, and while nobody is "immune", I don't think there needs to be anyone.

As a side note, I really hate how her sig reads: "Magik has a 25% chance to enter a state of Limbo...... Based on current Signature Level, chances are multiplied by {2-99.96}%." There are also several other instances (and I somehow can't remember the others off the top of my head) where Kabam does a similar thing. If a 25% chance to trigger is being multiplied by 2%, that would make it a (.25 x .02 = .005) .5% chance of triggering, and only with max sig could you get close to the original stated 25% chance. I guess this would make some sense, except that clearly Kabam means that (by the wording of an additional 12.5% chance being added to the OG 25% chance) with max sig, Magik should at 1 bar of power be able to have ~50% chance to trigger (which would be adding an additional ~100% to the 25% chance, not multiplying it by ~100%, which is literally 1).

Now DNA is welcome to come in and explain all of the actual math behind the scenes and why things are done the way that they are, and I'd be glad to learn, but this just has never made sense to me. Am I reading it wrong? or are all of my math professors currently spinning in their urns?
If it were that simple to deal with magik, they would've already released her as a 6*. A stacked magik is already difficult to deal with without the right counter, add in a variety of nodes - her list of counters get even smaller. One of the reasons why you don't see many magik bosses, if any. That's why I was thinking about how they could potentially balance her to maybe release the 6* at some point in time.

They aren’t holding back on releasing her as a 6* because of her defense capabilities. They’re holding back on releasing her because her power control is incredibly strong for shutting fights down

Squirrelguy

I know some counters exist to Limbo, but it’s still such an incredibly poo mechanic and the damage is ridiculous
Tried to comment a while ago but apparently editing the comment got it sent for review, so maybe this will get through.

There are a number of ways to deal with limbo such as AAR either from neurotoxins or just masteries that reduce it on parry stuns, simple regeneration, power control (Magik is one of the best Magik counters ironically), phasing during it like with Ghost/Kitty, keeping her at lower bars of power so it has a lower chance to proc, using champs that have high energy resistance as it is energy damage, champs that have an immortality mechanic, the list goes on.

I don't see why one of her limited mechanics should be changed. She isn't complicated and there are a wide variety of ways to deal with her, and while nobody is "immune", I don't think there needs to be anyone.

As a side note, I really hate how her sig reads: "Magik has a 25% chance to enter a state of Limbo...... Based on current Signature Level, chances are multiplied by {2-99.96}%." There are also several other instances (and I somehow can't remember the others off the top of my head) where Kabam does a similar thing. If a 25% chance to trigger is being multiplied by 2%, that would make it a (.25 x .02 = .005) .5% chance of triggering, and only with max sig could you get close to the original stated 25% chance. I guess this would make some sense, except that clearly Kabam means that (by the wording of an additional 12.5% chance being added to the OG 25% chance) with max sig, Magik should at 1 bar of power be able to have ~50% chance to trigger (which would be adding an additional ~100% to the 25% chance, not multiplying it by ~100%, which is literally 1).

Now DNA is welcome to come in and explain all of the actual math behind the scenes and why things are done the way that they are, and I'd be glad to learn, but this just has never made sense to me. Am I reading it wrong? or are all of my math professors currently spinning in their urns?
If it were that simple to deal with magik, they would've already released her as a 6*. A stacked magik is already difficult to deal with without the right counter, add in a variety of nodes - her list of counters get even smaller. One of the reasons why you don't see many magik bosses, if any. That's why I was thinking about how they could potentially balance her to maybe release the 6* at some point in time.
They aren’t holding back on releasing her as a 6* because of her defense capabilities. They’re holding back on releasing her because her power control is incredibly strong for shutting fights down

This was the exact point I was going to make. The reason that Magik is not yet added as a 6* is extremely comparable to Quake: as an attacker, her abilities allow here to bypass a huge amount of game mechanics and simplify a fight so much that they want to basically phase her out of use (or make her 5/65 still relatively boring to use compared to most 6* champs). It's not (primarily, but I'm sure it's like 5% of the reason) because her Limbo ability is unanswerable.