Combat power rates.

daveyj_196_daveyj_196_ Member Posts: 439 ★
in General Discussion
Have the numbers been tweaked across the board? It just feels like it's taking more hits to get to each power block recently.

Comments

  • PikoluPikolu Member, Guardian Posts: 7,778 Guardian
    You're welcome, I think kabam officially announced that back in like 2019 or something like that, so it would be very easy to not know about.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Member Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    Pikolu said:

    The only power rates are between champion ranks. R1s have 5%, r2s have 10%, r3s have 15%, r4s have 20% and r5s have 25% increased combat power rate. If you're used to using r5 5*s and now using r2 6*s, then yes, it will take more hits to get a bar of power.

    Until 7*s. They have the same CPR (the max of other rarities Iirc) through all ranks
  • ChobblyChobbly Member Posts: 948 ★★★★
    Worknprogress said:

    Pikolu said:

    The only power rates are between champion ranks. R1s have 5%, r2s have 10%, r3s have 15%, r4s have 20% and r5s have 25% increased combat power rate. If you're used to using r5 5*s and now using r2 6*s, then yes, it will take more hits to get a bar of power.

    Until 7*s. They have the same CPR (the max of other rarities Iirc) through all ranks
    That's interesting, didn't know that. I wonder if that's the 7* 'thing'.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Member Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    Chobbly said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Pikolu said:

    The only power rates are between champion ranks. R1s have 5%, r2s have 10%, r3s have 15%, r4s have 20% and r5s have 25% increased combat power rate. If you're used to using r5 5*s and now using r2 6*s, then yes, it will take more hits to get a bar of power.

    Until 7*s. They have the same CPR (the max of other rarities Iirc) through all ranks
    That's interesting, didn't know that. I wonder if that's the 7* 'thing'.
    It's not. The adrenaline type ability has yet to be disclosed. The CPR was a design choice for balancing champ rotations going forward. Also with 7*s having an additional rank, a R6 would theoretically have an even higher CPR so as far as I know it was decided to just eliminate the CPR change with ranks to streamline things
  • SummonerNRSummonerNR Member, Guardian Posts: 12,819 Guardian
    Worknprogress said:

    Chobbly said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Pikolu said:

    The only power rates are between champion ranks. R1s have 5%, r2s have 10%, r3s have 15%, r4s have 20% and r5s have 25% increased combat power rate. If you're used to using r5 5*s and now using r2 6*s, then yes, it will take more hits to get a bar of power.

    Until 7*s. They have the same CPR (the max of other rarities Iirc) through all ranks
    That's interesting, didn't know that. I wonder if that's the 7* 'thing'.
    It's not. The adrenaline type ability has yet to be disclosed. The CPR was a design choice for balancing champ rotations going forward. Also with 7*s having an additional rank, a R6 would theoretically have an even higher CPR so as far as I know it was decided to just eliminate the CPR change with ranks to streamline things
    It's not 5% thru 25% of “increased” power rate. r1 can’t have an increased rate, r1 is the base rate (ie, 1.00).
    Then r2 thru r5 have an increased amount of 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% (1.05 thru 1.20)
    Not up to 25%.

    But anyways, So you’re saying that the 20% increased rate for existing r5 champs (regardless of Star-Rarity), is being changed *just* for upcoming 7* champs, and that *all* of the 7* champs will be at +20% (1.20) ? Or are you even saying this is being increased to 1.25 for all 7* ranks ?

    Or do you mean that all champs of any Star are now gonna be the same power rate, that they are getting rid of power rate differences across the board now ?

    Or that, for 7*, instead of there being an additional increase going from the currently max r5 to the new r6, that the new 7* r6 will still be capped at the same as what r5 are at. So that a max 7* will not be getting any additional benefit of increased power rate from what the max is of any other current champ ?
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Member Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    SummonerNR said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Chobbly said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Pikolu said:

    The only power rates are between champion ranks. R1s have 5%, r2s have 10%, r3s have 15%, r4s have 20% and r5s have 25% increased combat power rate. If you're used to using r5 5*s and now using r2 6*s, then yes, it will take more hits to get a bar of power.

    Until 7*s. They have the same CPR (the max of other rarities Iirc) through all ranks
    That's interesting, didn't know that. I wonder if that's the 7* 'thing'.
    It's not. The adrenaline type ability has yet to be disclosed. The CPR was a design choice for balancing champ rotations going forward. Also with 7*s having an additional rank, a R6 would theoretically have an even higher CPR so as far as I know it was decided to just eliminate the CPR change with ranks to streamline things
    It's not 5% thru 25% of “increased” power rate. r1 can’t have an increased rate, r1 is the base rate (ie, 1.00).
    Then r2 thru r5 have an increased amount of 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% (1.05 thru 1.20)
    Not up to 25%.

    But anyways, So you’re saying that the 20% increased rate for existing r5 champs (regardless of Star-Rarity), is being changed *just* for upcoming 7* champs, and that *all* of the 7* champs will be at +20% (1.20) ? Or are you even saying this is being increased to 1.25 for all 7* ranks ?

    Or do you mean that all champs of any Star are now gonna be the same power rate, that they are getting rid of power rate differences across the board now ?

    Or that, for 7*, instead of there being an additional increase going from the currently max r5 to the new r6, that the new 7* r6 will still be capped at the same as what r5 are at. So that a max 7* will not be getting any additional benefit of increased power rate from what the max is of any other current champ ?
    I didn't say anything about 5-25%.

    As far as I understand 7*s will have the current R5 (4-6*) CPR from R1 - R6 which is why when they were introduced in the previous month's SQ people thought there was some additional power gain happening. I've not heard anything about lower rarity combat power rates being changed but just that this change of status quo was being implemented with 7*s to streamline rotation tuning during design and eliminate the possibility of R6 7*s having an even higher CPR than what we have with R5s currently.
  • SummonerNRSummonerNR Member, Guardian Posts: 12,819 Guardian
    Correct, wasn’t you. It was Pikolu who misstated it as r1 having 5%, and r5 having 25%, increased rate. Just correcting it for others looking.

    As for 7*, I would have rather wished they just made the +20% be the hard-max instead, so 7* r5 and r6 would thus both be the same, but keep lower ranks still progress same as current.

    That probably could have been done just as simply in code as what they did.

  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Member Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    SummonerNR said:

    Correct, wasn’t you. It was Pikolu who misstated it as r1 having 5%, and r5 having 25%, increased rate. Just correcting it for others looking.

    As for 7*, I would have rather wished they just made the +20% be the hard-max instead, so 7* r5 and r6 would thus both be the same, but keep lower ranks still progress same as current.

    That probably could have been done just as simply in code as what they did.

    Why? I much prefer it the way its being done. Then when you get 7*s, champs that have hit count specific rotations still work out of the box at R1.

    I can't think of a single reason why anyone would want to continue with the status quo
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Member Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    It's so much more confusing for new players seeing a rotation done with a champ, trying it themselves and not realizing why it doesn't work bc there was a rank difference between what they watched and what they have.
  • MagrailothosMagrailothos Member Posts: 5,979 ★★★★★
    Worknprogress said:

    SummonerNR said:

    Correct, wasn’t you. It was Pikolu who misstated it as r1 having 5%, and r5 having 25%, increased rate. Just correcting it for others looking.

    As for 7*, I would have rather wished they just made the +20% be the hard-max instead, so 7* r5 and r6 would thus both be the same, but keep lower ranks still progress same as current.

    That probably could have been done just as simply in code as what they did.

    Why? I much prefer it the way its being done. Then when you get 7*s, champs that have hit count specific rotations still work out of the box at R1.

    I can't think of a single reason why anyone would want to continue with the status quo
    I can. Because it messes up champions who have Suppression-type Power Control abilities.

    So I really like Power Control as a strategy; and as such, my first r4 Tech champion was Punisher-2099.

    Unfortunately, it looks like he's functionally going to be dramatically less effective against 7-star champions.

    Punisher-2099 (in Overdrive) reduces the opponents Combat Power Rate by 90%. This is a subtraction, not a multiplication.

    It's a really effective form of Power Control, but it's disproportionately affected by rising CPR:
    r1 has 100% CPR, so P2099 reduces it to 10%
    r2 has 105% CPR, so P2099 reduces it to 15%
    r3 has 110% CPR, so P2099 reduces it to 20%
    r4 has 115% CPR, so P2099 reduces it to 25%
    r5 has 120% CPR, so P2099 reduces it to 30%

    So if I'm fighting using a r1 seven-star champion with Punisher-2099, they'll be getting three times the power that a r1 six-star champion would be. That's a massive change when you're fighting them.

    I've done some real-life testing in Practice mode this evening, counting the hits by Punisher-2099 (in Overdrive, MLLLM combos) for the opponent to reach one bar of Power:
    R1 6*: EST 85-90 hits (Overdrive expired...)
    R2 6*: 68 hits
    R3 6*: 52 hits
    R4 6*: 45 hits
    R5 6*: 35 hits
    R1 7*: 31 hits

    There's a little variation, because I didn't turn off Pacify, so if I hit someone after a Parry that'll extend the count by reducing the power they gain. But the pattern is pretty clear.

    Punisher-2099 is the most obvious for me, but he's not the only person who uses Suppression, of course. War machine, Howard the Duck, Magneto (HoX), She-Hulk (Vs Mystics), Darkhawk (Stealth mode), Dragon Man (using Cornered passive), Jubilee, Knull (Darkness passives), Green Goblin, Sasquatch, Red Skull and Yondu all have abilities that impact the opponents Combat Power Rate.
    Punisher-2099 will be most dramatically affected, but there are people out there who use Dragon Man, War Machine, Sasquatch, and Darkhawk. They're significantly impacted by a decision for all 7-star champs to effectively have +20% Combat Power rating at all times.

    I'm genuinely a bit troubled by this. Where did you hear it? On a podcast or something? I'm pretty sure you're right, and just wondered where the info is.

    From my perspective, it would have been a far better call to just do away with increased combat Power rating completely. That way players could have predictable rotations from the get-go, and champions who control power would be equally effective against opponents of all ranks.
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