**WE ARE NO LONGER Temporarily Reverting Tier 1 War Ban System**

After further discussion, the game team has made the decision not make adjustements to the ban system.
The previously proposed fix would have resolved the issue for Summoners who are on the cusp of T1/T2 play, and negatively impacted Alliances more securely in T1. Instead, we recommend that cusp Alliances switch to Manual Placement to your members to place the allotted 5 Ban Champions limit there.

Apologies for the back and forth, and for any confusion.
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Kabam please tell me its a lie cheaters got…

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    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,362 ★★★★★

    Pikolu said:

    There was already a fake forum post going around related to these bans. I think this screenshot is worth taking with a grain of salt, especially when we’re relying on the word of people who were banned for playing dishonestly. If it was actually given, I think there’s zero chance it was sent intentionally to people coming back from a ban. But if it was unintentionally sent, I sure hope it’s undone.

    I don't think I've ever disagreed with you before but first time for everything. If Kabam had done anything to deserve the benefit of the doubt on anything in regards to cheating I would agree with you, but as most of us know, Kabam deserves the opposite of the benefit of the doubt based on historical precedent.
    Your dislike of Kabam doesn't stop proof being a black and white thing. Proof is not a screenshot of one ingame mail, no account name included, not even of one member that KT alleges.

    If it's true, then Kabam can answer whether it was a mistake and what they'll do about it to fix it. Until then, I forgot it was guilty until proven innocent...
    This isn't a "oh he hates Kabam" sort of situation though. It's not like this distrust is caused by hate cause oh well he just hates Kabam, no this distrust is caused by the mountain of balancing, bugs, cheater issues etc that have plagued the game for the past 4-6 months. So you can't really blame people for taking this whole situation at face value, especially considering a lot of the people who were banned are top spenders.
    If this turns out to be a lie then good for Kabam, we'll all stand corrected but until they say something (which I doubt they will) people are free to think whatever they want to think.
    He was responding to a comment that said "Take this with a grain of salt, we're trusting the words of cheaters", and basically saying Kabam don't deserve a grain of salt, and lets trust the cheaters. That is not a logical response, it's an emotional one to fit in with not liking Kabam or their decisions.

    I agree people can think whatever they want, but if they decide they *know* what happened based on a screenshot and the word of the modders and cheaters who got banned - they probably aren't thinking about it too smartly. Like I said, I don't know for sure what happened, but neither do you, or Chatter. So that's literally all Cat and I are saying. If you disagree with that, then you either don't take proof seriously enough and believe anything on the internet as long as it suits your opinion, or you trust modders way more than is reasonable.
    Giving an incompetent company (who couldn't or didn't want to get rid of arena bots for years cause they didn't care and also allowed these same modders to remain in top 500 GC during a full season of BGs) the benefit of the doubt isn't really thinking about it too smartly either imo, especially when the people banned were top spenders. Now, do I believe this whole situation is 100% real and I'm grabbing torches and pitchforks? Nah. Am I leaning more towards it being real than fake? Absolutely. I don't trust Kabam as much as I used to, I'm sure we all have our reasons.
    When did I say give them the benefit of the doubt? I said take a modders and cheaters word with a grain of salt. Nobody’s asking you to give kabam the benefit of the doubt. They’re saying don’t assume something is true until it’s proved, that works for anyone no matter how much you like or dislike them.
    Right, if you're constantly breaking the law though people are probably going to think you're guilty. Given the massive streak of modding botting latency and AW issues Kabam has been having these past few months it's easy to see why some people would believe they're capable of doing something as dumb as sending the cheaters (who also happen to be big spenders) compensations for their week bans
    When you have a free to play game, it makes it hard to counter cheaters unless you have a system that can automatically ban cheaters with perfect accuracy. It is always a hassle when innocent people get banned because they had really good RNG with AA in BGs.

    Kabam also has been working on the modder and botting situation and making life better for everyone. Also considering kabam is giving only 1 warning to arena bothers before a permaban would also suggest that they wouldn't purposefully send compensation to those who got temporarily banned.

    Has kabam done well with the situation in the past? No, but theyvare doing better now, so I'll take the small victories as they come.
    I never said it was easy, in fact I've said it before I know the game's never going to be cheater-free cause that would be nearly impossible to achieve, however the fact that 70% of the top 500 was just cheaters in one of the last BGs seasons is absolutely unacceptable even for a free to play game. You can't go in and manually ban them when it's that obvious?

    Why did it take them years to address arena botting though? People have been complaining about this issue for years, it's not news for some of us.

    I agree, I'm not saying they've done nothing at all. I'm just saying they're not doing enough when they could and should be.
    So what is doing enough exactly? When companies like Activision and Fortnite can't keep hackers away, what exactly should Kabam be doing differently? Don't say immediate Perma bans.
  • Options
    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,362 ★★★★★

    What video?

    There was already a fake forum post going around related to these bans. I think this screenshot is worth taking with a grain of salt, especially when we’re relying on the word of people who were banned for playing dishonestly. If it was actually given, I think there’s zero chance it was sent intentionally to people coming back from a ban. But if it was unintentionally sent, I sure hope it’s undone.

    I don't think I've ever disagreed with you before but first time for everything. If Kabam had done anything to deserve the benefit of the doubt on anything in regards to cheating I would agree with you, but as most of us know, Kabam deserves the opposite of the benefit of the doubt based on historical precedent.
    Your dislike of Kabam doesn't stop proof being a black and white thing. Proof is not a screenshot of one ingame mail, no account name included, not even of one member that KT alleges.

    If it's true, then Kabam can answer whether it was a mistake and what they'll do about it to fix it. Until then, I forgot it was guilty until proven innocent...
    This isn't a "oh he hates Kabam" sort of situation though. It's not like this distrust is caused by hate cause oh well he just hates Kabam, no this distrust is caused by the mountain of balancing, bugs, cheater issues etc that have plagued the game for the past 4-6 months. So you can't really blame people for taking this whole situation at face value, especially considering a lot of the people who were banned are top spenders.
    If this turns out to be a lie then good for Kabam, we'll all stand corrected but until they say something (which I doubt they will) people are free to think whatever they want to think.
    He was responding to a comment that said "Take this with a grain of salt, we're trusting the words of cheaters", and basically saying Kabam don't deserve a grain of salt, and lets trust the cheaters. That is not a logical response, it's an emotional one to fit in with not liking Kabam or their decisions.

    I agree people can think whatever they want, but if they decide they *know* what happened based on a screenshot and the word of the modders and cheaters who got banned - they probably aren't thinking about it too smartly. Like I said, I don't know for sure what happened, but neither do you, or Chatter. So that's literally all Cat and I are saying. If you disagree with that, then you either don't take proof seriously enough and believe anything on the internet as long as it suits your opinion, or you trust modders way more than is reasonable.
    Giving an incompetent company (who couldn't or didn't want to get rid of arena bots for years cause they didn't care and also allowed these same modders to remain in top 500 GC during a full season of BGs) the benefit of the doubt isn't really thinking about it too smartly either imo, especially when the people banned were top spenders. Now, do I believe this whole situation is 100% real and I'm grabbing torches and pitchforks? Nah. Am I leaning more towards it being real than fake? Absolutely. I don't trust Kabam as much as I used to, I'm sure we all have our reasons.
    But you trust a former merc/cheater who constantly has to stir the pot to get views?
    Do I trust the words of a former merc who hasn't done it in years over those from a company who for the past 4-6 months hasn't put in much effort into taking the game in a healthier direction? Absolutely!
    Hasn't done it in years that you know of.
    Even if he did, that changes nothing. Sure I'd lose a lot of respect for him but guess what? That still wouldn't make me see Kabam in a different light, at least until they start putting in more effort to take the game in a healthier direction. Maybe that will change with the new AW changes next season we'll see, until then that changes nothing.
    Stop trying to pull off a strawman, it's not going to work lol.
    And what's a healthier direction?
  • Options
    BigBlueOxBigBlueOx Posts: 1,615 ★★★★★
    I think until Kabam responds it’s all speculation either way. If it’s true, it’s sad that it is, but I’m leaning towards another goof as that’s the current track record. Personally I don’t think these botters deserve their AW or BG rewards, especially if the confiscated champs were used in either game mode. So I’m hoping there’s follow up on this as well.
  • Options
    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,362 ★★★★★

    What video?

    There was already a fake forum post going around related to these bans. I think this screenshot is worth taking with a grain of salt, especially when we’re relying on the word of people who were banned for playing dishonestly. If it was actually given, I think there’s zero chance it was sent intentionally to people coming back from a ban. But if it was unintentionally sent, I sure hope it’s undone.

    I don't think I've ever disagreed with you before but first time for everything. If Kabam had done anything to deserve the benefit of the doubt on anything in regards to cheating I would agree with you, but as most of us know, Kabam deserves the opposite of the benefit of the doubt based on historical precedent.
    Your dislike of Kabam doesn't stop proof being a black and white thing. Proof is not a screenshot of one ingame mail, no account name included, not even of one member that KT alleges.

    If it's true, then Kabam can answer whether it was a mistake and what they'll do about it to fix it. Until then, I forgot it was guilty until proven innocent...
    This isn't a "oh he hates Kabam" sort of situation though. It's not like this distrust is caused by hate cause oh well he just hates Kabam, no this distrust is caused by the mountain of balancing, bugs, cheater issues etc that have plagued the game for the past 4-6 months. So you can't really blame people for taking this whole situation at face value, especially considering a lot of the people who were banned are top spenders.
    If this turns out to be a lie then good for Kabam, we'll all stand corrected but until they say something (which I doubt they will) people are free to think whatever they want to think.
    He was responding to a comment that said "Take this with a grain of salt, we're trusting the words of cheaters", and basically saying Kabam don't deserve a grain of salt, and lets trust the cheaters. That is not a logical response, it's an emotional one to fit in with not liking Kabam or their decisions.

    I agree people can think whatever they want, but if they decide they *know* what happened based on a screenshot and the word of the modders and cheaters who got banned - they probably aren't thinking about it too smartly. Like I said, I don't know for sure what happened, but neither do you, or Chatter. So that's literally all Cat and I are saying. If you disagree with that, then you either don't take proof seriously enough and believe anything on the internet as long as it suits your opinion, or you trust modders way more than is reasonable.
    Giving an incompetent company (who couldn't or didn't want to get rid of arena bots for years cause they didn't care and also allowed these same modders to remain in top 500 GC during a full season of BGs) the benefit of the doubt isn't really thinking about it too smartly either imo, especially when the people banned were top spenders. Now, do I believe this whole situation is 100% real and I'm grabbing torches and pitchforks? Nah. Am I leaning more towards it being real than fake? Absolutely. I don't trust Kabam as much as I used to, I'm sure we all have our reasons.
    But you trust a former merc/cheater who constantly has to stir the pot to get views?
    Do I trust the words of a former merc who hasn't done it in years over those from a company who for the past 4-6 months hasn't put in much effort into taking the game in a healthier direction? Absolutely!
    Hasn't done it in years that you know of.
    Even if he did, that changes nothing. Sure I'd lose a lot of respect for him but guess what? That still wouldn't make me see Kabam in a different light, at least until they start putting in more effort to take the game in a healthier direction. Maybe that will change with the new AW changes next season we'll see, until then that changes nothing.
    Stop trying to pull off a strawman, it's not going to work lol.
    And what's a healthier direction?
    Resetting cheaters illegitimate progression..
    That's all I want.
    Give them as many chances you want. But the rewards must be stripped off of the mode they cheated on.
    And I think you and most of us agree to that.
    Of course we but isn't that what Kabam is doing?
  • Options
    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,362 ★★★★★
    edited June 2023

    What video?

    There was already a fake forum post going around related to these bans. I think this screenshot is worth taking with a grain of salt, especially when we’re relying on the word of people who were banned for playing dishonestly. If it was actually given, I think there’s zero chance it was sent intentionally to people coming back from a ban. But if it was unintentionally sent, I sure hope it’s undone.

    I don't think I've ever disagreed with you before but first time for everything. If Kabam had done anything to deserve the benefit of the doubt on anything in regards to cheating I would agree with you, but as most of us know, Kabam deserves the opposite of the benefit of the doubt based on historical precedent.
    Your dislike of Kabam doesn't stop proof being a black and white thing. Proof is not a screenshot of one ingame mail, no account name included, not even of one member that KT alleges.

    If it's true, then Kabam can answer whether it was a mistake and what they'll do about it to fix it. Until then, I forgot it was guilty until proven innocent...
    This isn't a "oh he hates Kabam" sort of situation though. It's not like this distrust is caused by hate cause oh well he just hates Kabam, no this distrust is caused by the mountain of balancing, bugs, cheater issues etc that have plagued the game for the past 4-6 months. So you can't really blame people for taking this whole situation at face value, especially considering a lot of the people who were banned are top spenders.
    If this turns out to be a lie then good for Kabam, we'll all stand corrected but until they say something (which I doubt they will) people are free to think whatever they want to think.
    He was responding to a comment that said "Take this with a grain of salt, we're trusting the words of cheaters", and basically saying Kabam don't deserve a grain of salt, and lets trust the cheaters. That is not a logical response, it's an emotional one to fit in with not liking Kabam or their decisions.

    I agree people can think whatever they want, but if they decide they *know* what happened based on a screenshot and the word of the modders and cheaters who got banned - they probably aren't thinking about it too smartly. Like I said, I don't know for sure what happened, but neither do you, or Chatter. So that's literally all Cat and I are saying. If you disagree with that, then you either don't take proof seriously enough and believe anything on the internet as long as it suits your opinion, or you trust modders way more than is reasonable.
    Giving an incompetent company (who couldn't or didn't want to get rid of arena bots for years cause they didn't care and also allowed these same modders to remain in top 500 GC during a full season of BGs) the benefit of the doubt isn't really thinking about it too smartly either imo, especially when the people banned were top spenders. Now, do I believe this whole situation is 100% real and I'm grabbing torches and pitchforks? Nah. Am I leaning more towards it being real than fake? Absolutely. I don't trust Kabam as much as I used to, I'm sure we all have our reasons.
    But you trust a former merc/cheater who constantly has to stir the pot to get views?
    Do I trust the words of a former merc who hasn't done it in years over those from a company who for the past 4-6 months hasn't put in much effort into taking the game in a healthier direction? Absolutely!
    Hasn't done it in years that you know of.
    Even if he did, that changes nothing. Sure I'd lose a lot of respect for him but guess what? That still wouldn't make me see Kabam in a different light, at least until they start putting in more effort to take the game in a healthier direction. Maybe that will change with the new AW changes next season we'll see, until then that changes nothing.
    Stop trying to pull off a strawman, it's not going to work lol.
    And what's a healthier direction?
    You really want me to sit here and explain step by step how to take the game in a healthier direction when you can easily go read the hundreds of complaints about the same issues for the past 4-6 months? I'll give you a short answer though, stop ruining every single new update with bugged nodes and champs, if you're going to fix something in AW do your job right and don't create another issue after your failed attempt at fixing the first issue, if you can't ban all the modders which is obviously impossible at least try to make sure there's none in the top 500-1000?

    As for your previous reply, why are you asking me that when I literally just said at the start of that same comment it's nearly impossible to keep them away completely lol.
    I'll give you an answer for the sake of the argument though, maybe don't leave 70% of them on the top 500 for a full season when you can easily go in and manually ban them?
    Don't tell tell me that thought never crossed you mind.
    So your suggestion for making the game "healthy" is to not have bugs? I guess everyone who has been complaining about bugs should have just suggested this instead. Maybe Kabam would have stopped making bugged content years ago. 🙄

    Also, Miike and Jax said that for at least BGs, anyone banned still shows on the leaderboard regardless. They stated this on the onset of them ramping up the banning of hackers. Arena is the same I believe.
  • Options
    Athos69Athos69 Posts: 39
    Exactly, I know one who was complaining why was they given a featured crystal when they have every new champ from botting already., Said it was like a slap in the face to botters in the game and is demanding comp in the shape of Danni Moonstar. 😂
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    ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,775 ★★★★★
    edited June 2023

    What video?

    There was already a fake forum post going around related to these bans. I think this screenshot is worth taking with a grain of salt, especially when we’re relying on the word of people who were banned for playing dishonestly. If it was actually given, I think there’s zero chance it was sent intentionally to people coming back from a ban. But if it was unintentionally sent, I sure hope it’s undone.

    I don't think I've ever disagreed with you before but first time for everything. If Kabam had done anything to deserve the benefit of the doubt on anything in regards to cheating I would agree with you, but as most of us know, Kabam deserves the opposite of the benefit of the doubt based on historical precedent.
    Your dislike of Kabam doesn't stop proof being a black and white thing. Proof is not a screenshot of one ingame mail, no account name included, not even of one member that KT alleges.

    If it's true, then Kabam can answer whether it was a mistake and what they'll do about it to fix it. Until then, I forgot it was guilty until proven innocent...
    This isn't a "oh he hates Kabam" sort of situation though. It's not like this distrust is caused by hate cause oh well he just hates Kabam, no this distrust is caused by the mountain of balancing, bugs, cheater issues etc that have plagued the game for the past 4-6 months. So you can't really blame people for taking this whole situation at face value, especially considering a lot of the people who were banned are top spenders.
    If this turns out to be a lie then good for Kabam, we'll all stand corrected but until they say something (which I doubt they will) people are free to think whatever they want to think.
    He was responding to a comment that said "Take this with a grain of salt, we're trusting the words of cheaters", and basically saying Kabam don't deserve a grain of salt, and lets trust the cheaters. That is not a logical response, it's an emotional one to fit in with not liking Kabam or their decisions.

    I agree people can think whatever they want, but if they decide they *know* what happened based on a screenshot and the word of the modders and cheaters who got banned - they probably aren't thinking about it too smartly. Like I said, I don't know for sure what happened, but neither do you, or Chatter. So that's literally all Cat and I are saying. If you disagree with that, then you either don't take proof seriously enough and believe anything on the internet as long as it suits your opinion, or you trust modders way more than is reasonable.
    Giving an incompetent company (who couldn't or didn't want to get rid of arena bots for years cause they didn't care and also allowed these same modders to remain in top 500 GC during a full season of BGs) the benefit of the doubt isn't really thinking about it too smartly either imo, especially when the people banned were top spenders. Now, do I believe this whole situation is 100% real and I'm grabbing torches and pitchforks? Nah. Am I leaning more towards it being real than fake? Absolutely. I don't trust Kabam as much as I used to, I'm sure we all have our reasons.
    But you trust a former merc/cheater who constantly has to stir the pot to get views?
    Do I trust the words of a former merc who hasn't done it in years over those from a company who for the past 4-6 months hasn't put in much effort into taking the game in a healthier direction? Absolutely!
    I'm not one to point fingers on here, but certain individuals on YouTube make a "living" (because I have no idea how lucrative it is but it's still their modus operandi) on posting controversial content that evokes reactions.
    Take everything on YouTube with a grain of salt.
    That first part made me chuckle.

    I never said they don't. I also never said I agree with everything KT1 says when it comes to Kabam. I'm just saying, based on what I've seen Kabam do (and not do) these past few months I think there is a pretty decent chance they did send those compensations after realizing a lot of the people who got the ban hammer were big spenders (we all know TCN alone spends thousands of dollars on this game, it's not up for debate)
    The problem is you're adding conjecture. Is it possible those Players received something? Sure. We know those random incentives come at times for inactive Players. It's a possibility.
    What I don't agree with, and what has been added here, is the idea they did it in lieu of those Players spending. That conspiracy has been around as long as I have. It makes no sense. To penalize Players for cheating, then apologize for it by sending goods? There's no logic in that. If it doesn't make sense, it's probably not true.
    The only logical possibility I can see is the system could have sent it, without Kabam being aware of who it was going to. Which is, again, speculation. I don't have the inside information on any Accounts.
    What I know for sure, and has been proven over time, is that some people take a grain of information, create a narrative, and spark a reaction. Then we get to watch the Posts flood in.
    At the time of making my first comment I wasn't aware of how the compensation worked, that's why my first thought was "they're giving those to the big spenders" cause I couldn't really find any other explanation, I didn't know these compensations were sent due to inactivity. Now that I have full context yeah it probably was an accident, which btw still doesn't make it right.

    Also, there's no speculation or possibility here, the information came from reliable sources and I'm not talking about KT1, there's other endgame players who received the same exact information as he did from the same players.
  • Options
    ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,775 ★★★★★
    @Demonzfyre reading comprehension -10. No, my suggestion is: do your job (which you're getting paid for) cause right now it doesn't even look like you care, hence all the issues I just mentioned in less than 4 months.

    So they're banned but people still get matched with them quite frequently in GC, got it! That's some next level logic right there.
  • Options
    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 ★★★★

    What video?

    There was already a fake forum post going around related to these bans. I think this screenshot is worth taking with a grain of salt, especially when we’re relying on the word of people who were banned for playing dishonestly. If it was actually given, I think there’s zero chance it was sent intentionally to people coming back from a ban. But if it was unintentionally sent, I sure hope it’s undone.

    I don't think I've ever disagreed with you before but first time for everything. If Kabam had done anything to deserve the benefit of the doubt on anything in regards to cheating I would agree with you, but as most of us know, Kabam deserves the opposite of the benefit of the doubt based on historical precedent.
    Your dislike of Kabam doesn't stop proof being a black and white thing. Proof is not a screenshot of one ingame mail, no account name included, not even of one member that KT alleges.

    If it's true, then Kabam can answer whether it was a mistake and what they'll do about it to fix it. Until then, I forgot it was guilty until proven innocent...
    This isn't a "oh he hates Kabam" sort of situation though. It's not like this distrust is caused by hate cause oh well he just hates Kabam, no this distrust is caused by the mountain of balancing, bugs, cheater issues etc that have plagued the game for the past 4-6 months. So you can't really blame people for taking this whole situation at face value, especially considering a lot of the people who were banned are top spenders.
    If this turns out to be a lie then good for Kabam, we'll all stand corrected but until they say something (which I doubt they will) people are free to think whatever they want to think.
    He was responding to a comment that said "Take this with a grain of salt, we're trusting the words of cheaters", and basically saying Kabam don't deserve a grain of salt, and lets trust the cheaters. That is not a logical response, it's an emotional one to fit in with not liking Kabam or their decisions.

    I agree people can think whatever they want, but if they decide they *know* what happened based on a screenshot and the word of the modders and cheaters who got banned - they probably aren't thinking about it too smartly. Like I said, I don't know for sure what happened, but neither do you, or Chatter. So that's literally all Cat and I are saying. If you disagree with that, then you either don't take proof seriously enough and believe anything on the internet as long as it suits your opinion, or you trust modders way more than is reasonable.
    Giving an incompetent company (who couldn't or didn't want to get rid of arena bots for years cause they didn't care and also allowed these same modders to remain in top 500 GC during a full season of BGs) the benefit of the doubt isn't really thinking about it too smartly either imo, especially when the people banned were top spenders. Now, do I believe this whole situation is 100% real and I'm grabbing torches and pitchforks? Nah. Am I leaning more towards it being real than fake? Absolutely. I don't trust Kabam as much as I used to, I'm sure we all have our reasons.
    But you trust a former merc/cheater who constantly has to stir the pot to get views?
    Do I trust the words of a former merc who hasn't done it in years over those from a company who for the past 4-6 months hasn't put in much effort into taking the game in a healthier direction? Absolutely!
    I'm not one to point fingers on here, but certain individuals on YouTube make a "living" (because I have no idea how lucrative it is but it's still their modus operandi) on posting controversial content that evokes reactions.
    Take everything on YouTube with a grain of salt.
    That first part made me chuckle.

    I never said they don't. I also never said I agree with everything KT1 says when it comes to Kabam. I'm just saying, based on what I've seen Kabam do (and not do) these past few months I think there is a pretty decent chance they did send those compensations after realizing a lot of the people who got the ban hammer were big spenders (we all know TCN alone spends thousands of dollars on this game, it's not up for debate)
    The problem is you're adding conjecture. Is it possible those Players received something? Sure. We know those random incentives come at times for inactive Players. It's a possibility.
    What I don't agree with, and what has been added here, is the idea they did it in lieu of those Players spending. That conspiracy has been around as long as I have. It makes no sense. To penalize Players for cheating, then apologize for it by sending goods? There's no logic in that. If it doesn't make sense, it's probably not true.
    The only logical possibility I can see is the system could have sent it, without Kabam being aware of who it was going to. Which is, again, speculation. I don't have the inside information on any Accounts.
    What I know for sure, and has been proven over time, is that some people take a grain of information, create a narrative, and spark a reaction. Then we get to watch the Posts flood in.
    At the time of making my first comment I wasn't aware of how the compensation worked, that's why my first thought was "they're giving those to the big spenders" cause I couldn't really find any other explanation, I didn't know these compensations were sent due to inactivity. Now that I have full context yeah it probably was an accident, which btw still doesn't make it right.

    Also, there's no speculation or possibility here, the information came from reliable sources and I'm not talking about KT1, there's other endgame players who received the same exact information as he did from the same players.
    You just defined speculation and then said "there's no speculation"
  • Options
    hburns03hburns03 Posts: 74


    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/337916/battle-against-cheaters-update-june-6th-2023/p1

    Kabam doesn't jump straight to perma bans. They have a process usually. 7 day bans are the first step for first time offenders. But their rewards are usually taken from them.

    yeah should be at least a 2 week ban for a warning. if i had any say it would be one month ban warning then straight to perma ban
  • Options
    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 ★★★★

    What video?

    There was already a fake forum post going around related to these bans. I think this screenshot is worth taking with a grain of salt, especially when we’re relying on the word of people who were banned for playing dishonestly. If it was actually given, I think there’s zero chance it was sent intentionally to people coming back from a ban. But if it was unintentionally sent, I sure hope it’s undone.

    I don't think I've ever disagreed with you before but first time for everything. If Kabam had done anything to deserve the benefit of the doubt on anything in regards to cheating I would agree with you, but as most of us know, Kabam deserves the opposite of the benefit of the doubt based on historical precedent.
    Your dislike of Kabam doesn't stop proof being a black and white thing. Proof is not a screenshot of one ingame mail, no account name included, not even of one member that KT alleges.

    If it's true, then Kabam can answer whether it was a mistake and what they'll do about it to fix it. Until then, I forgot it was guilty until proven innocent...
    This isn't a "oh he hates Kabam" sort of situation though. It's not like this distrust is caused by hate cause oh well he just hates Kabam, no this distrust is caused by the mountain of balancing, bugs, cheater issues etc that have plagued the game for the past 4-6 months. So you can't really blame people for taking this whole situation at face value, especially considering a lot of the people who were banned are top spenders.
    If this turns out to be a lie then good for Kabam, we'll all stand corrected but until they say something (which I doubt they will) people are free to think whatever they want to think.
    He was responding to a comment that said "Take this with a grain of salt, we're trusting the words of cheaters", and basically saying Kabam don't deserve a grain of salt, and lets trust the cheaters. That is not a logical response, it's an emotional one to fit in with not liking Kabam or their decisions.

    I agree people can think whatever they want, but if they decide they *know* what happened based on a screenshot and the word of the modders and cheaters who got banned - they probably aren't thinking about it too smartly. Like I said, I don't know for sure what happened, but neither do you, or Chatter. So that's literally all Cat and I are saying. If you disagree with that, then you either don't take proof seriously enough and believe anything on the internet as long as it suits your opinion, or you trust modders way more than is reasonable.
    Giving an incompetent company (who couldn't or didn't want to get rid of arena bots for years cause they didn't care and also allowed these same modders to remain in top 500 GC during a full season of BGs) the benefit of the doubt isn't really thinking about it too smartly either imo, especially when the people banned were top spenders. Now, do I believe this whole situation is 100% real and I'm grabbing torches and pitchforks? Nah. Am I leaning more towards it being real than fake? Absolutely. I don't trust Kabam as much as I used to, I'm sure we all have our reasons.
    But you trust a former merc/cheater who constantly has to stir the pot to get views?
    Do I trust the words of a former merc who hasn't done it in years over those from a company who for the past 4-6 months hasn't put in much effort into taking the game in a healthier direction? Absolutely!
    I'm not one to point fingers on here, but certain individuals on YouTube make a "living" (because I have no idea how lucrative it is but it's still their modus operandi) on posting controversial content that evokes reactions.
    Take everything on YouTube with a grain of salt.
    That first part made me chuckle.

    I never said they don't. I also never said I agree with everything KT1 says when it comes to Kabam. I'm just saying, based on what I've seen Kabam do (and not do) these past few months I think there is a pretty decent chance they did send those compensations after realizing a lot of the people who got the ban hammer were big spenders (we all know TCN alone spends thousands of dollars on this game, it's not up for debate)
    The problem is you're adding conjecture. Is it possible those Players received something? Sure. We know those random incentives come at times for inactive Players. It's a possibility.
    What I don't agree with, and what has been added here, is the idea they did it in lieu of those Players spending. That conspiracy has been around as long as I have. It makes no sense. To penalize Players for cheating, then apologize for it by sending goods? There's no logic in that. If it doesn't make sense, it's probably not true.
    The only logical possibility I can see is the system could have sent it, without Kabam being aware of who it was going to. Which is, again, speculation. I don't have the inside information on any Accounts.
    What I know for sure, and has been proven over time, is that some people take a grain of information, create a narrative, and spark a reaction. Then we get to watch the Posts flood in.
    At the time of making my first comment I wasn't aware of how the compensation worked, that's why my first thought was "they're giving those to the big spenders" cause I couldn't really find any other explanation, I didn't know these compensations were sent due to inactivity. Now that I have full context yeah it probably was an accident, which btw still doesn't make it right.

    Also, there's no speculation or possibility here, the information came from reliable sources and I'm not talking about KT1, there's other endgame players who received the same exact information as he did from the same players.
    You just defined speculation and then said "there's no speculation"
    What point are you trying to make here?
    GroundedWisdom claims it's only a possibility, it's not, the compensation was sent and nobody here is speculating because it's a fact supported by evidence. The information also came from reliable sources, plural btw not just one.
    You assumed that they gave them specifically to spenders to keep them spending because you couldn't find any other explanation, which is exactly what speculation is. The answer is very simple and could've easily been found if you didn't let your bias get in the way. This package is often sent to inactive players when they start playing again, which unintentionally affected many players who were forced to stop playing due to their bans.

    It's not speculation to say modders got this package, it's overwhelmingly speculative to say they got it because they spend a lot of money, especially since modders usually mod to avoid spending money at all.
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    ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,775 ★★★★★

    What video?

    There was already a fake forum post going around related to these bans. I think this screenshot is worth taking with a grain of salt, especially when we’re relying on the word of people who were banned for playing dishonestly. If it was actually given, I think there’s zero chance it was sent intentionally to people coming back from a ban. But if it was unintentionally sent, I sure hope it’s undone.

    I don't think I've ever disagreed with you before but first time for everything. If Kabam had done anything to deserve the benefit of the doubt on anything in regards to cheating I would agree with you, but as most of us know, Kabam deserves the opposite of the benefit of the doubt based on historical precedent.
    Your dislike of Kabam doesn't stop proof being a black and white thing. Proof is not a screenshot of one ingame mail, no account name included, not even of one member that KT alleges.

    If it's true, then Kabam can answer whether it was a mistake and what they'll do about it to fix it. Until then, I forgot it was guilty until proven innocent...
    This isn't a "oh he hates Kabam" sort of situation though. It's not like this distrust is caused by hate cause oh well he just hates Kabam, no this distrust is caused by the mountain of balancing, bugs, cheater issues etc that have plagued the game for the past 4-6 months. So you can't really blame people for taking this whole situation at face value, especially considering a lot of the people who were banned are top spenders.
    If this turns out to be a lie then good for Kabam, we'll all stand corrected but until they say something (which I doubt they will) people are free to think whatever they want to think.
    He was responding to a comment that said "Take this with a grain of salt, we're trusting the words of cheaters", and basically saying Kabam don't deserve a grain of salt, and lets trust the cheaters. That is not a logical response, it's an emotional one to fit in with not liking Kabam or their decisions.

    I agree people can think whatever they want, but if they decide they *know* what happened based on a screenshot and the word of the modders and cheaters who got banned - they probably aren't thinking about it too smartly. Like I said, I don't know for sure what happened, but neither do you, or Chatter. So that's literally all Cat and I are saying. If you disagree with that, then you either don't take proof seriously enough and believe anything on the internet as long as it suits your opinion, or you trust modders way more than is reasonable.
    Giving an incompetent company (who couldn't or didn't want to get rid of arena bots for years cause they didn't care and also allowed these same modders to remain in top 500 GC during a full season of BGs) the benefit of the doubt isn't really thinking about it too smartly either imo, especially when the people banned were top spenders. Now, do I believe this whole situation is 100% real and I'm grabbing torches and pitchforks? Nah. Am I leaning more towards it being real than fake? Absolutely. I don't trust Kabam as much as I used to, I'm sure we all have our reasons.
    But you trust a former merc/cheater who constantly has to stir the pot to get views?
    Do I trust the words of a former merc who hasn't done it in years over those from a company who for the past 4-6 months hasn't put in much effort into taking the game in a healthier direction? Absolutely!
    I'm not one to point fingers on here, but certain individuals on YouTube make a "living" (because I have no idea how lucrative it is but it's still their modus operandi) on posting controversial content that evokes reactions.
    Take everything on YouTube with a grain of salt.
    That first part made me chuckle.

    I never said they don't. I also never said I agree with everything KT1 says when it comes to Kabam. I'm just saying, based on what I've seen Kabam do (and not do) these past few months I think there is a pretty decent chance they did send those compensations after realizing a lot of the people who got the ban hammer were big spenders (we all know TCN alone spends thousands of dollars on this game, it's not up for debate)
    The problem is you're adding conjecture. Is it possible those Players received something? Sure. We know those random incentives come at times for inactive Players. It's a possibility.
    What I don't agree with, and what has been added here, is the idea they did it in lieu of those Players spending. That conspiracy has been around as long as I have. It makes no sense. To penalize Players for cheating, then apologize for it by sending goods? There's no logic in that. If it doesn't make sense, it's probably not true.
    The only logical possibility I can see is the system could have sent it, without Kabam being aware of who it was going to. Which is, again, speculation. I don't have the inside information on any Accounts.
    What I know for sure, and has been proven over time, is that some people take a grain of information, create a narrative, and spark a reaction. Then we get to watch the Posts flood in.
    At the time of making my first comment I wasn't aware of how the compensation worked, that's why my first thought was "they're giving those to the big spenders" cause I couldn't really find any other explanation, I didn't know these compensations were sent due to inactivity. Now that I have full context yeah it probably was an accident, which btw still doesn't make it right.

    Also, there's no speculation or possibility here, the information came from reliable sources and I'm not talking about KT1, there's other endgame players who received the same exact information as he did from the same players.
    You just defined speculation and then said "there's no speculation"
    What point are you trying to make here?
    GroundedWisdom claims it's only a possibility, it's not, the compensation was sent and nobody here is speculating because it's a fact supported by evidence. The information also came from reliable sources, plural btw not just one.
    You assumed that they gave them specifically to spenders to keep them spending because you couldn't find any other explanation, which is exactly what speculation is. The answer is very simple and could've easily been found if you didn't let your bias get in the way. This package is often sent to inactive players when they start playing again, which unintentionally affected many players who were forced to stop playing due to their bans.

    It's not speculation to say modders got this package, it's overwhelmingly speculative to say they got it because they spend a lot of money, especially since modders usually mod to avoid spending money at all.
    I fail to see how any of the stuff you typed in those two paragraphs changes the situation at all. The cheaters still received the compensations regardless which is the issue here, why or how doesn't matter.
    You're arguing something that's completely irrelevant to create a strawman. Are you really that desperate to kiss up on the forums?
    In one situation, Kabam is giving free stuff to cheaters to get on their good side, in the realistic situation Kabam is giving free stuff to players who found themselves on a break and accidentally including players who don't deserve it. One of these situations is extremely speculative and bordering on an outright lie, the other is the latter.

    If Kabam decides to fix this by removing the items from the players inventories and/or preventing banned players from receiving these packages in the future, chances are we won't know about it. This situation doesn't involve us, and Kabam isn't the type of company to make a big announcement just to stop a few blind raged players from speculating. The only thing we can be sure of is that these packages were not sent with ill intent, and if that's not enough for you, that's really not Kabam's problem.

    Also, I'm not sure you know what a strawman is. For example, your last sentence is a perfect one.
    At no point on my other comment did I say both situations are the same, I just said it doesn't matter, which is true. The issue here is compensations were sent which shouldn't have happened if they were doing their jobs right, simple as that.

    *They make a mistake* "nah there was no ill intent if that's not enough for you it's not their problem", no wonder these last 4-6 months it's been issue after issue after issue . I'm not using this as a strawman, you claim I'm biased and then give dumb replies like that last one of course I'm gonna point out all the white knighting that's happening right now.
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    JJJmJJJJJJmJJJ Posts: 131
    Maybe I am unlucky or biased, but after 7 days ban, my impression was that bg was again filled with "strange" winners...
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