It's a really sad joke that Kabam "ban" people, to give them later resources to recover Lost week of playing lol
While unintentional it does seem like that is the end result based on what we’ve been told. As it seems like it’s true the inactive player compensation did not account for bans and we’ve not heard that this will be reversed.
I'm not talking about welcome back pack, 20 TCN players were banned and they got first place on Battlegrounds, that sucks.
Understand and agree. The first and second place alliance event finishers won a competition that rewarded use of battlegrounds tokens that need to be purchased with units to score that high. Some of those units were likely earned/stolen by arena botting, therefore its fair to assume that those placements were earned indirectly from the arena botting. It’s a bad look for any positive direction we’ve had in regards to anti cheating. In other competitions where you violate the rules like this so egregiously you get disqualified from earning rewards. Sad that wasn’t the case here.
I really don't understand. Let's just say that the number 1 alliance had 16 cheaters banned. Those players have been at the top of the arena for two years now. Putting up almost 300 million points every arena before the cooldown change and 400 million after is an ungodly amount of battle chips every week. Extremely conservatively that is 5000 units a week per person that was stolen. Pretty easy to place number 1 when you have for all intents and purposes and unlimited amount of units to steal elders marks with.
Yeh but god forbid I should revive farm a couple times per week. That breaks the economy and purposes of the game, don't it ....
So DNA3000’s post sort of confirms the thread title. Kabam’s decision makers are going to allow cheating like this with minor temporary consequences, at least for now. Whoever the “God/HR Committee” is/are, they don’t think it’s important to send a harsher message against cheating.
I’m sure the dev team wants to stop cheating ASAP but that doesn’t appear to be possible. If there is no real deterrent being issued from the decision makers then it seems like everyone competing just needs to accept that you won’t reach to top unless you cheat right now. Maybe eventually that will change but today it’s not even P2W, it’s C2W, which is sad.
The part that really blows my mind is that this is the same company that handed out 7-day bans for players rerunning paths in a bugged side quest within the first hour of it being launched. So an uncollected player that got a few extra T4CC from a side quest that was bugged gets the same “punishment” as a top tier account that is actively, willfully, intentionally, knowingly cheating in competitive game modes that directly impact other players’ rewards and they get to keep all the tangential benefits of their cheating on top of that.
It is common sense that you don't bite the hand that feeds you and so I can't bring myself to completely hate Kabam for this. It's why I buy Sigil and don't play the game for free; doing what I can to support this massive game.
Agreed @Drago_von_Drago - Why it's so hard to make tech that auto detects that the game is modified in some way? Or are the mods so easy that they cannot be detected in some way? When #1 and #3 in BGs are cheaters, cheaters are winning alliance events, etc I'd feel any competent game dev would be seething.
Why is it so painful for them that Herc trivializes content when many top alliances are trivializing the whole game?
It is common sense that you don't bite the hand that feeds you…
Why is it so painful for them that Herc trivializes content when many top alliances are trivializing the whole game?
Sorry just wanted to isolate a couple of points you made because they are good ones. And I think the question you pose is the question of the year. With such a concern over the impact of Hercules and revive farming it’s very curious why this was allowed to happen and for so so long.
On the biting the hand that feeds you point though… these cheaters are effectively stealing units from Kabam to game the system to edge out players with a moral compass. We should label it as such. These are stolen units and revenue from Kabam being used to steal from the player base. And every now and then the abusive hand, even if it’s feeding you deserves to be bitten.
The idea that a summoner only cheats, if he cheats, in only one event is naive! If they are cheating in arena they are cheating in other events and probably cheated to obtain their titles. And in all probability they are running multiple accounts and cheating on all of them. So if 1/2 of an alliance is banned, it is likely summoners in that alliamce have multiple accounts. Any account associated with a cheating account should be banned as well.
a whole alliance arena bots for years gaining an unfair advantage with new champions and units gained through exploiting the game.
they then use said units and champions to steam roll the competition and rank #1
what is kabam going to do about it?
and you say steam roll? but battlegrounds is about skills, well sure
but when an player ranks #1 everywhere in game they have all the top rewards that allow them to have a lot of maxed champions, for instance they ranked 1 as an alliance and obtained a lot of rankup materials that they can then use to max even more champions then when new season starts they have a deck of mostly maxed champions vs players with a conservative amount. at this point is not so much skill anymore.
Sure there are few players out there that have an insane skill that can overcome this like the #1 ranked player but for how long. last season sure at most it they had 5-7 maxed champs next season they probably will have double one more season after that it would be their whole deck as maxed champions nobody can compete with that all because they cheat in a game that allows them to claim top ranked rewards without repercussions
Okay, this is going in all different directions. First of all, the Leaderboard isn't always a reflection of whatever actions have been taken. Secondly, they don't "allow" cheating based on spending. I wish that conspiracy would die. Thirdly, you can't assume every Member is cheating if one or some are caught. There is certainly room for debate in relation to removing their Alliance Points if they're caught, but this idea that they cheated here and used it there etc...isn't something that can be addressed in any kind of specific manner. That's a game of Clue.
I understand that people are upset that a permanent ban isn't the first response, but let's wait for more information before we scream fire.
Firstly i don't use forums much so forgive me if i didn’t do this right. Just wanted to know @GroundedWisdom pov here. They half of TCN was boting arena. That's a fact. Lets Just assume for only during this Bg season they were boting. Some great players who didn’t cheat in Bg were ranked top 8 this season but they were arena boting aka breaking Tos. When they were breaking the Tos they were playing for ranking at a competitive mode while scoring points for their ally & themselves. Why didn’t kabam take points off them for cheating in the game during competing in a competitive mode which well no cheaters also spend vast amount of time. Isn't it unfair & unethical? What was your line of thinking when you said "there is room of debate if they were caught then to remove it" They were caught that's why they were banned. Yet the ally point counter whilst they were cheating and im just assuming it for just one season. Not even going years back. Also nothing malicious Against you i hope you take it in the right way. just asking it coming on as if you are defending it for the sake of it.
What I mean is there is a reasonable argument for removing Points they acquired this Season as a part of punishment. Meaning, they were punished for their actions this Arena, so that would be in line. It does open up a more complicated area because you then start punishing Players in multiple game modes, and the punishment needs to pertain to what's been caught, but it's a reasonable argument. What doesn't seem reasonable is compounding that into every Unit they ever spent because they've been cheating for years. That may or may not be true, but you can't quantify that without some form of long-term audit into every Unit they ever made or spent. It becomes more complicated. What I'm defending is logic, not someone getting ill-gotten Rewards. There is a line in the sand Kabam can build on.
a whole alliance arena bots for years gaining an unfair advantage with new champions and units gained through exploiting the game.
they then use said units and champions to steam roll the competition and rank #1
what is kabam going to do about it?
and you say steam roll? but battlegrounds is about skills, well sure
but when an player ranks #1 everywhere in game they have all the top rewards that allow them to have a lot of maxed champions, for instance they ranked 1 as an alliance and obtained a lot of rankup materials that they can then use to max even more champions then when new season starts they have a deck of mostly maxed champions vs players with a conservative amount. at this point is not so much skill anymore.
Sure there are few players out there that have an insane skill that can overcome this like the #1 ranked player but for how long. last season sure at most it they had 5-7 maxed champs next season they probably will have double one more season after that it would be their whole deck as maxed champions nobody can compete with that all because they cheat in a game that allows them to claim top ranked rewards without repercussions
Players in clean alliances like NewN are probably going to take their foot of the pedal because you cannot beat a cheater in a P2W game. In the long run, it's extremely toxic for the game. Many of the top players are getting bottlenecked out of top BG spots by cheaters and piloters.
Okay, this is going in all different directions. First of all, the Leaderboard isn't always a reflection of whatever actions have been taken. Secondly, they don't "allow" cheating based on spending. I wish that conspiracy would die. Thirdly, you can't assume every Member is cheating if one or some are caught. There is certainly room for debate in relation to removing their Alliance Points if they're caught, but this idea that they cheated here and used it there etc...isn't something that can be addressed in any kind of specific manner. That's a game of Clue.
I understand that people are upset that a permanent ban isn't the first response, but let's wait for more information before we scream fire.
Firstly i don't use forums much so forgive me if i didn’t do this right. Just wanted to know @GroundedWisdom pov here. They half of TCN was boting arena. That's a fact. Lets Just assume for only during this Bg season they were boting. Some great players who didn’t cheat in Bg were ranked top 8 this season but they were arena boting aka breaking Tos. When they were breaking the Tos they were playing for ranking at a competitive mode while scoring points for their ally & themselves. Why didn’t kabam take points off them for cheating in the game during competing in a competitive mode which well no cheaters also spend vast amount of time. Isn't it unfair & unethical? What was your line of thinking when you said "there is room of debate if they were caught then to remove it" They were caught that's why they were banned. Yet the ally point counter whilst they were cheating and im just assuming it for just one season. Not even going years back. Also nothing malicious Against you i hope you take it in the right way. just asking it coming on as if you are defending it for the sake of it.
What I mean is there is a reasonable argument for removing Points they acquired this Season as a part of punishment. Meaning, they were punished for their actions this Arena, so that would be in line. It does open up a more complicated area because you then start punishing Players in multiple game modes, and the punishment needs to pertain to what's been caught, but it's a reasonable argument. What doesn't seem reasonable is compounding that into every Unit they ever spent because they've been cheating for years. That may or may not be true, but you can't quantify that without some form of long-term audit into every Unit they ever made or spent. It becomes more complicated. What I'm defending is logic, not someone getting ill-gotten Rewards. There is a line in the sand Kabam can build on.
Logic wise it’s a fair point t, but does it really matter? If there is 15 botted units amongst 1000 and it’s impossible to know which of the 1000 is the 15 stolen units then the entire. stash is compromised IMO and shouldn’t be eligible for use in competition. Again though that’s the full DQ logic approach to cheaters, and I think that would be fair in alignment with other competitions
You know… I know there are clean masters alliances and players up there but at the same time it does feel like the Masters title, top 10 AQ, and the top of the battlegrounds are synonymous with cheating or the acceptance of cheaters.
Especially when you face one of of these “masters” accounts that so obviously modded their match
I’ve been on quite the anti-cheating tirade and I have to agree that Kabam, while slow on this issue, has a really great recent track record of listening to our feedback and adjusting the ban and anti-cheat policies to more effectively deal with these turd muffins.
I’d still like to see more focus on removing points from the alliances that harbor and clearly even encourage cheaters in AW and AQ as a next step. But definitely satisfied with the current forward progress
Comments
I’m sure the dev team wants to stop cheating ASAP but that doesn’t appear to be possible. If there is no real deterrent being issued from the decision makers then it seems like everyone competing just needs to accept that you won’t reach to top unless you cheat right now. Maybe eventually that will change but today it’s not even P2W, it’s C2W, which is sad.
The part that really blows my mind is that this is the same company that handed out 7-day bans for players rerunning paths in a bugged side quest within the first hour of it being launched. So an uncollected player that got a few extra T4CC from a side quest that was bugged gets the same “punishment” as a top tier account that is actively, willfully, intentionally, knowingly cheating in competitive game modes that directly impact other players’ rewards and they get to keep all the tangential benefits of their cheating on top of that.
Agreed @Drago_von_Drago - Why it's so hard to make tech that auto detects that the game is modified in some way? Or are the mods so easy that they cannot be detected in some way? When #1 and #3 in BGs are cheaters, cheaters are winning alliance events, etc I'd feel any competent game dev would be seething.
Why is it so painful for them that Herc trivializes content when many top alliances are trivializing the whole game?
On the biting the hand that feeds you point though… these cheaters are effectively stealing units from Kabam to game the system to edge out players with a moral compass. We should label it as such. These are stolen units and revenue from Kabam being used to steal from the player base. And every now and then the abusive hand, even if it’s feeding you deserves to be bitten.
And in all probability they are running multiple accounts and cheating on all of them. So if 1/2 of an alliance is banned, it is likely summoners in that alliamce have multiple accounts. Any account associated with a cheating account should be banned as well.
they then use said units and champions to steam roll the competition and rank #1
what is kabam going to do about it?
and you say steam roll? but battlegrounds is about skills, well sure
but when an player ranks #1 everywhere in game they have all the top rewards that allow them to have a lot of maxed champions, for instance they ranked 1 as an alliance and obtained a lot of rankup materials that they can then use to max even more champions then when new season starts they have a deck of mostly maxed champions vs players with a conservative amount. at this point is not so much skill anymore.
Sure there are few players out there that have an insane skill that can overcome this like the #1 ranked player but for how long. last season sure at most it they had 5-7 maxed champs next season they probably will have double one more season after that it would be their whole deck as maxed champions nobody can compete with that all because they cheat in a game that allows them to claim top ranked rewards without repercussions
What doesn't seem reasonable is compounding that into every Unit they ever spent because they've been cheating for years. That may or may not be true, but you can't quantify that without some form of long-term audit into every Unit they ever made or spent. It becomes more complicated.
What I'm defending is logic, not someone getting ill-gotten Rewards. There is a line in the sand Kabam can build on.
Especially when you face one of of these “masters” accounts that so obviously modded their match
Stop bumping your post.
I’d still like to see more focus on removing points from the alliances that harbor and clearly even encourage cheaters in AW and AQ as a next step. But definitely satisfied with the current forward progress