**Mastery Loadouts**
Due to issues related to the release of Mastery Loadouts, the "free swap" period will be extended.
The new end date will be May 1st.

AW. Going back to fight 5 nightcrawlers!!!!

124»

Comments

  • RedRoosterRedRooster Posts: 337 ★★
    RedRooster wrote: »
    You're essentially saying from the outset, I expect my opponent to clear 100%. You're guarding against an inevitable mathematical loss by sacrificing the likely wins you would have leading up to it.

    Something I want to make clear before I progress. The use of "you're" was meant as the hypothetical party, as in whoever is choosing the strategy is making that implication, not specifically you @GroundedWisdom.
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    In a theoretical discussion pertaining to the War system, it is not necessary to back it up with what Tier someone is in. Nor is it pertinent to the discussion. If I had said "When I was in X Tier," that may make more sense, but it's still irrelevant. The question comes up to discredit someone's point of view based on where they are at in the game, and that's about it. It is not necessary to have experience in any part of the game to have an understanding of it. One simply needs knowledge. Many disagree, but the point of view is incredibly limited. The idea that only people at a certain point can register valid thoughts is, frankly, ignorant. Not directing that at anyone in particular, just that the mentality is limited. When discussing what happens in War, it is not necessary to provide credentials. Knowledge does not require experience. Nor do opinions. The fact is, I said the solution is temporary because eventually, Diversity will come into play when facing Allies that can complete the Map. I didn't say Allies should do one thing or the other. I said there's no removing the significance of the metrics. What they do with that is up to them.

    When discussing what happens in War at higher tiers, it is necessary to provide credentials.
    Knowledge does not require experience... in theory. Experience is practical knowledge.

    If experience is irrelevant, I would challenge anyone with that view point to jump in the car with someone that just passed their driver's theory test but never sat behind the wheel.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,240 ★★★★★
    RedRooster wrote: »
    RedRooster wrote: »
    You're essentially saying from the outset, I expect my opponent to clear 100%. You're guarding against an inevitable mathematical loss by sacrificing the likely wins you would have leading up to it.

    Something I want to make clear before I progress. The use of "you're" was meant as the hypothetical party, as in whoever is choosing the strategy is making that implication, not specifically you @GroundedWisdom.
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    In a theoretical discussion pertaining to the War system, it is not necessary to back it up with what Tier someone is in. Nor is it pertinent to the discussion. If I had said "When I was in X Tier," that may make more sense, but it's still irrelevant. The question comes up to discredit someone's point of view based on where they are at in the game, and that's about it. It is not necessary to have experience in any part of the game to have an understanding of it. One simply needs knowledge. Many disagree, but the point of view is incredibly limited. The idea that only people at a certain point can register valid thoughts is, frankly, ignorant. Not directing that at anyone in particular, just that the mentality is limited. When discussing what happens in War, it is not necessary to provide credentials. Knowledge does not require experience. Nor do opinions. The fact is, I said the solution is temporary because eventually, Diversity will come into play when facing Allies that can complete the Map. I didn't say Allies should do one thing or the other. I said there's no removing the significance of the metrics. What they do with that is up to them.

    When discussing what happens in War at higher tiers, it is necessary to provide credentials.
    Knowledge does not require experience... in theory. Experience is practical knowledge.

    If experience is irrelevant, I would challenge anyone with that view point to jump in the car with someone that just passed their driver's theory test but never sat behind the wheel.

    It is not necessary to display credentials to discuss ANYTHING on the Forum.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,240 ★★★★★
    What happens at higher Tiers when Allies lose is the same thing that happens at lower Tiers. Same Matchmaking process, same results. Same Diversity metrics across the board. I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Tier I'm in is irrelevant. When Allies lose at higher Tiers, they lose War Rating. They lose enough, they go down. When this process occurs with a specific demographic (in this case, Allies that cannot make it past he same, repeat Champs), eventually you're left with those Allies in Tiers below. The end result is Allies in higher Tiers who CAN complete the Map, at which time said tactic is moot because you are no longer stopping the Allies from completing the Map, which is the purpose of that tactic. The end result is that the War is determined by the remaining metrics. Defender Rating and Diversity. Now, these Allies can choose to continue to forego Diversity and leave it to Defender Rating, but it's still Points. The same amount of Points at any Tier. When we're dealing with Matches that are hundreds of Points difference, those metrics will make or break a War. That's about all I'm going to say on the matter because it's become an off-topic discussion about credentials, and it's not a requirement to have a conversation here.
  • MrMojoMrMojo Posts: 97 ★
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    Dropfaith wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    That perspective is ignorant to the fact that War is for all Players and must encourage growth. Not some Darwinian Theory of survival for some. This is where we agree to disagree.

    So learning to be better isn't for all players?
    Getting better isn't growth?

    Getting better is for everyone. That's not the same as penalizing the efforts by Losses. What you're describing is a do-or-die scenario, and that's not about getting better at all. Just separating those who can and cannot complete the Map without KOs.

    When was the last time you actuallly ran a war/. Your war rating has been stuck on 981 for however long
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 508 ★★★
    Best way to fix that problem is add defender kills as a metric. Then you have a skill based war not based on rating or diversity. It doesn't take skill to clear a diverse map.
  • GwendolineGwendoline Posts: 945 ★★★
    @GroundedWisdom

    You keep saying stuff that doesn't fly. You don't know it doesn't fly, because on paper you're absolutely right. Logically and mathematically you're spot on. And yet it doesn't work that way. Which you refuse to accept because, once again, on paper you're right. Play in a tier 1 alliance for a while and you'll notice how it works and why your arguments plain suck.

    Also, stop repeating the same thing. It's like you're not even reading what anyone says. You don't respond to what you quote and you don't answer any direct question.

    I don't care which tier you're in, couldn't care less. Not sure why that matters to anyone (pretty sure it doesn't to anyone here, you made it into a big thing yourself). We're explaining to you that where you are does matter and that if you say "the higher you go, the more blablabla" then knowing how high you went yourself isn't irrelevant as you claim it is. So your exact tier, no one cares, but the question that was asked wasn't what tier you where in but if you where in tier 1. That's a yes or no question.

    If I tell you about babies and how they are raised and what's important and that the older the are, the more blablabla, then it's relevant that my kid is 4 months old. I still read about older kids, I still teach kids from 4 till 12 years old, I spend years studying their development and I know about it, but I haven't experienced it yet. So although I can explain and give tips on a lot of things, it's paper knowledge, not real life experience.
  • DarkestDestroyerDarkestDestroyer Posts: 2,874 ★★★★★
    @Kabam Miike @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Wolf @Kabam Loto @Kabam Pertinax @Ad0ra_ @TenebrousTenebrific

    Why is this thread still open?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,240 ★★★★★
    edited November 2017
    Gwendoline wrote: »
    @GroundedWisdom

    You keep saying stuff that doesn't fly. You don't know it doesn't fly, because on paper you're absolutely right. Logically and mathematically you're spot on. And yet it doesn't work that way. Which you refuse to accept because, once again, on paper you're right. Play in a tier 1 alliance for a while and you'll notice how it works and why your arguments plain suck.

    Also, stop repeating the same thing. It's like you're not even reading what anyone says. You don't respond to what you quote and you don't answer any direct question.

    I don't care which tier you're in, couldn't care less. Not sure why that matters to anyone (pretty sure it doesn't to anyone here, you made it into a big thing yourself). We're explaining to you that where you are does matter and that if you say "the higher you go, the more blablabla" then knowing how high you went yourself isn't irrelevant as you claim it is. So your exact tier, no one cares, but the question that was asked wasn't what tier you where in but if you where in tier 1. That's a yes or no question.

    If I tell you about babies and how they are raised and what's important and that the older the are, the more blablabla, then it's relevant that my kid is 4 months old. I still read about older kids, I still teach kids from 4 till 12 years old, I spend years studying their development and I know about it, but I haven't experienced it yet. So although I can explain and give tips on a lot of things, it's paper knowledge, not real life experience.

    It doesn't matter. Plain and simple it doesn't matter. I'm saying the same thing because that's what I'm contributing to the discussion, and it has absolutely nothing to do with where I am at, which is continually being challenged. The only thing taking place is the rejection of my thoughts based on Tiers in the game. It is not appropriate to the conversation. People can say it's pertinent to the discussion, but it's not. It doesn't matter what Tier I'm in because the reality of the system is what it is, regardless of experience. The "TL:DR" of the line of questioning is, if someone is not in Tier 1, their opinion doesn't matter. We don't need 1000 words to deduce that. That's completely incorrect. We're not talking about what Tier someone is in. We're talking about strategy in War. Which can only play out in so many ways, because the Placement may change, but the metrics and statistics don't. It has nothing to do with experience, and everything to do with how the system works. If people think someone has to verify where they are at in the game to be heard, that is not the case. It is irrelevant to the discussion.
  • GwendolineGwendoline Posts: 945 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    Gwendoline wrote: »
    @GroundedWisdom

    You keep saying stuff that doesn't fly. You don't know it doesn't fly, because on paper you're absolutely right. Logically and mathematically you're spot on. And yet it doesn't work that way. Which you refuse to accept because, once again, on paper you're right. Play in a tier 1 alliance for a while and you'll notice how it works and why your arguments plain suck.

    Also, stop repeating the same thing. It's like you're not even reading what anyone says. You don't respond to what you quote and you don't answer any direct question.

    I don't care which tier you're in, couldn't care less. Not sure why that matters to anyone (pretty sure it doesn't to anyone here, you made it into a big thing yourself). We're explaining to you that where you are does matter and that if you say "the higher you go, the more blablabla" then knowing how high you went yourself isn't irrelevant as you claim it is. So your exact tier, no one cares, but the question that was asked wasn't what tier you where in but if you where in tier 1. That's a yes or no question.

    If I tell you about babies and how they are raised and what's important and that the older the are, the more blablabla, then it's relevant that my kid is 4 months old. I still read about older kids, I still teach kids from 4 till 12 years old, I spend years studying their development and I know about it, but I haven't experienced it yet. So although I can explain and give tips on a lot of things, it's paper knowledge, not real life experience.

    It doesn't matter. Plain and simple it doesn't matter. I'm saying the same thing because that's what I'm contributing to the discussion, and it has absolutely nothing to do with where I am at, which is continually being challenged. The only thing taking place is the rejection of my thoughts based on Tiers in the game. It is not appropriate to the conversation. People can say it's pertinent to the discussion, but it's not. It doesn't matter what Tier I'm in because the reality of the system is what it is, regardless of experience. The "TL:DR" of the line of questioning is, if someone is not in Tier 1, their opinion doesn't matter. We don't need 1000 words to deduce that. That's completely incorrect. We're not talking about what Tier someone is in. We're talking about strategy in War. Which can only play out in so many ways, because the Placement may change, but the metrics and statistics don't. It has nothing to do with experience, and everything to do with how the system works. If people think someone has to verify where they are at in the game to be heard, that is not the case. It is irrelevant to the discussion.

    It’s like you didn’t read a word I wrote.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,240 ★★★★★
    Gwendoline wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    Gwendoline wrote: »
    @GroundedWisdom

    You keep saying stuff that doesn't fly. You don't know it doesn't fly, because on paper you're absolutely right. Logically and mathematically you're spot on. And yet it doesn't work that way. Which you refuse to accept because, once again, on paper you're right. Play in a tier 1 alliance for a while and you'll notice how it works and why your arguments plain suck.

    Also, stop repeating the same thing. It's like you're not even reading what anyone says. You don't respond to what you quote and you don't answer any direct question.

    I don't care which tier you're in, couldn't care less. Not sure why that matters to anyone (pretty sure it doesn't to anyone here, you made it into a big thing yourself). We're explaining to you that where you are does matter and that if you say "the higher you go, the more blablabla" then knowing how high you went yourself isn't irrelevant as you claim it is. So your exact tier, no one cares, but the question that was asked wasn't what tier you where in but if you where in tier 1. That's a yes or no question.

    If I tell you about babies and how they are raised and what's important and that the older the are, the more blablabla, then it's relevant that my kid is 4 months old. I still read about older kids, I still teach kids from 4 till 12 years old, I spend years studying their development and I know about it, but I haven't experienced it yet. So although I can explain and give tips on a lot of things, it's paper knowledge, not real life experience.

    It doesn't matter. Plain and simple it doesn't matter. I'm saying the same thing because that's what I'm contributing to the discussion, and it has absolutely nothing to do with where I am at, which is continually being challenged. The only thing taking place is the rejection of my thoughts based on Tiers in the game. It is not appropriate to the conversation. People can say it's pertinent to the discussion, but it's not. It doesn't matter what Tier I'm in because the reality of the system is what it is, regardless of experience. The "TL:DR" of the line of questioning is, if someone is not in Tier 1, their opinion doesn't matter. We don't need 1000 words to deduce that. That's completely incorrect. We're not talking about what Tier someone is in. We're talking about strategy in War. Which can only play out in so many ways, because the Placement may change, but the metrics and statistics don't. It has nothing to do with experience, and everything to do with how the system works. If people think someone has to verify where they are at in the game to be heard, that is not the case. It is irrelevant to the discussion.

    It’s like you didn’t read a word I wrote.

    I read what you said. Asking if I was in Tier 1, or asking what Tier I'm in is the same thing. You may personally not care, and I respect that. However, the line of questioning is not pertinent to the points I made. This entire discussion changed because I expressed my view and it was made into a focus about where I'm at. I did not make that myself. I'm not discussing what Tier I'm in. Plain and simple.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,240 ★★★★★
    Now, if you would like to discuss how the points I made "suck", I'd be willing to discuss it.
  • SpeedbumpSpeedbump Posts: 1,520 ★★★
    edited November 2017
    ...had to delete my post....it wasn't very nice...
  • W00tw00tW00tw00t Posts: 1 ★
    Deadbyrd9 wrote: »
    All top alliances do mystic wars. Mines ranked around 70 and we haven’t seen full diversity in weeks

    Some very top alliances do, definitly not all of them. I’ve only seen just a few recently who placed for a Mystics war.
    RedRooster wrote: »
    My turn to make a subjective statement. I feel that sacrificing best defenders for the sake of optimising diversity is a pessimistically defensive strategy. You're essentially saying from the outset, I expect my opponent to clear 100%. You're guarding against an inevitable mathematical loss by sacrificing the likely wins you would have leading up to it.

    Top alliances 100% if they want to. Placing best defense won’t change that.
    In your case it’s hoping that the opponent gives up or you know you will lose before hand and wants to make it the opponent a bit more challenging.
  • MarzGrooveMarzGroove Posts: 903 ★★★
    INTEGRAL wrote: »
    I miss those days. AW should be skill based

    I think AW should be based on teamwork/coordination and then skill. It’s not a whole lot of either currently.
  • Fluffydragon2Fluffydragon2 Posts: 109 ★
    I was thinking of maybe changing the way aw works. No one is allowed to revive. Once your dead, your dead. This will take more teamwork to 100% the map
  • klobberintymeklobberintyme Posts: 1,426 ★★★★
    I love long-winded bloviating!
    Jackass1: I'm awesome in my super game team!
    Jackass2: that's not how it works dummy stinkypants
    G-Wiz: hypotheticaly speaking, blah blah (gets flagged)
    Jackass1: what do you know you're lame like my mom when she asks me What is this charge on the phone bill to Kabam for a 5 star cache package? Also I'm awesome.
    DickDestroyer: I'm telling the hall monitor.
  • DaywalkerUKDaywalkerUK Posts: 119 ★
    Showing your ignorance on every page of this discussion GW. The very fact that you are now talking about alliances who don't place diverse eventually getting demoted from tier 1 is one of your best yet and does a grand job of highlighting why you shouldn't be engaging in the discussion of higher tier wars. You'll note I didn't say you shouldn't be engaging in the discussion of AW in general because your opinion doesn't matter. Nobody has told you that, you just made it up. Of course your opinion matters, as long as it's in the context of a single battle group playing 1 or 2 wars a week in the lower tiers. You just can't help yourself telling everyone again and again that ignoring diversity is not wise though. Had you said "ignoring diversity in the lower tiers if you only have half an alliance is not wise" I wouldn't have even responded because I couldn't tell you if that's correct or not. I don't have any experience at that level of play you see.

    For reference; if my alliance wants to be demoted I estimate, based on current and projected war rating, we would probably need to lose up to 10 wars in a row. I realise for a mighty alliance like yours it's all about winning war almost every single time but most of us are happy with 60-70% win rate and that isn't gonna see us demoted any time soon, even if we unwisely ignore diversity. Oh, we won tonight by the way so i gues we'll be in tier 1 a little longer. Do you know what the great thing is about strong defence vs diverse defence? With a diverse defence you generally HAVE to 100%. Not a problem if you're up against another diverse defence but when you hit that mystic wall and see your bosses dropping...
  • realiTicrealiTic Posts: 96 ★
    https://youtu.be/BKanP-3wUKA

    @OP Watch it and bring bleed proof champs. Best way to beat NC is with Iceman. If you don’t have him bring Ultron, parry, hit 3 times and repeat. If you can’t parry, intercept once and evade. Keep repeating till he dies.

    @WebSnatcher / @GroundedWisdom what you are saying is correct, but it depends on war being finished 100% which isn’t always the case for every tier. I am at tier 3/4 and I have rarely seen 3 BG 100% clear ever since we got here (maybe one out of ten). It is more of a mix of diversity and mystic wars for this tier we have found diversity to not matter since the change. What everyone is saying is that every tier is different. What you have stated is what’s called an obvious truth like the sun produces heat. However it is much hotter for countries near the equator as oppose to countries near the two poles. The sun have more impact on the former than the latter. Same thing applies here as well. Diversity impact on Tier 1 wars are not the same as Tier 3 and Tier 10...etc. Lastly, while yes it’s irrevlant the level of play you are in, it is universal truth that people listen to doctors more than med students. People will listens to CEOs then the average working joe. So if you want your advice to be more respected, you will need to be in a more respectable position. While it is good to stand by your conviction, a truely wise man always seeks wisdom by listening to others and learning from their experiences.
Sign In or Register to comment.