When you're dealing with AI that barely moves unless you do, I'd say that's skill as well. I had him trapped in the corner with lagging controls, so it's not always possible to have perfect game play. Essentially that's what people are asking for. A system that makes perfection the goal. Also worth noting that Doom is just OP in general. It's not so much skill as it is the same old Champs. That's my point.
As someone who loves having a Gorr to throw down on defense for a practically free win, I have absolutely no idea how you managed to lose that much health using one of his best counters.
As someone who loves having a Gorr to throw down on defense for a practically free win, I have absolutely no idea how you managed to lose that much health using one of his best counters.
I usually do to be honest. I find myself worried I'm going to be reported because one L2 and they're down. This one took 2, and I lagged out and got dinged.
As someone who loves having a Gorr to throw down on defense for a practically free win, I have absolutely no idea how you managed to lose that much health using one of his best counters.
I usually do to be honest. I find myself worried I'm going to be reported because one L2 and they're down. This one took 2, and I lagged out and got dinged.
And if u get reported they would investigate.. find out its not and dismiss it... Sorry but that's a lame excuse you got outplayed by skill
I personally don’t view your match up as having been a great showcase of skill.
If you’d avoided being hit, you’d have had an equally quick matchup but more health. I’m not sure how your fight shows enough superior skill to beat the opponent.
I’m much more impressed with the other person in this fight personally, he performed better and won because of it.
(This isn’t a “you suck” post, I really don’t intend it to be that.)
You got hit in your fight, which opened up the door for the opponent to take only 50% longer than you but because they used their skill to avoid getting hit or losing health, they won.
As someone who loves having a Gorr to throw down on defense for a practically free win, I have absolutely no idea how you managed to lose that much health using one of his best counters.
I usually do to be honest. I find myself worried I'm going to be reported because one L2 and they're down. This one took 2, and I lagged out and got dinged.
And if u get reported they would investigate.. find out its not and dismiss it... Sorry but that's a lame excuse you got outplayed by skill
As someone who loves having a Gorr to throw down on defense for a practically free win, I have absolutely no idea how you managed to lose that much health using one of his best counters.
I usually do to be honest. I find myself worried I'm going to be reported because one L2 and they're down. This one took 2, and I lagged out and got dinged.
And if u get reported they would investigate.. find out its not and dismiss it... Sorry but that's a lame excuse you got outplayed by skill
I personally don’t view your match up as having been a great showcase of skill.
If you’d avoided being hit, you’d have had an equally quick matchup but more health. I’m not sure how your fight shows enough superior skill to beat the opponent.
I’m much more impressed with the other person in this fight personally, he performed better and won because of it.
(This isn’t a “you suck” post, I really don’t intend it to be that.)
You got hit in your fight, which opened up the door for the opponent to take only 50% longer than you but because they used their skill to avoid getting hit or losing health, they won.
We disagree on what constitutes as skill. Obviously we all try not to lose Health. Saying that's the only measure of skill is one-sided. Taking the Match down faster is another measure. That's the whole point of having a time metric. Now it's just a measure of who is fortunate enough not to have a lagging device and cooperating AI. Which I won't get into here, but the AI needs revisited.
Only people who don’t run suicides like the new scoring. Honestly it’s trash to those that do. Almost unplayable.
U can load non suicides masteries in the deck and then switch em back for regular play...
I have ranked up champs that greatly benefit from suicides - not so much ones that don’t. I am also not adjusting my masteries (which costs me resources) because Kabam got a wild hair up the butts and decided to mess with the formula.
But I’m still the winner in points because I lost a smaller percentage of my health.
I think the 22 second difference here should have given my opponent the win.
I totally get why you feel that way... But you did draft better. You chose a champion who could heal and had a higher health pool in a fight where health is the top priority. You didn't play as well, but you chose a champion who didn't need to play as well to meet the requirements for a win. They had a 22 second lead, and you had a 14% lead. You barely squeezed out the win, meaning you both did relatively the same. 14% is about equal to 22 seconds scoring wise, and that seems fine to me.
I personally don’t view your match up as having been a great showcase of skill.
If you’d avoided being hit, you’d have had an equally quick matchup but more health. I’m not sure how your fight shows enough superior skill to beat the opponent.
I’m much more impressed with the other person in this fight personally, he performed better and won because of it.
(This isn’t a “you suck” post, I really don’t intend it to be that.)
You got hit in your fight, which opened up the door for the opponent to take only 50% longer than you but because they used their skill to avoid getting hit or losing health, they won.
We disagree on what constitutes as skill. Obviously we all try not to lose Health. Saying that's the only measure of skill is one-sided. Taking the Match down faster is another measure. That's the whole point of having a time metric. Now it's just a measure of who is fortunate enough not to have a lagging device and cooperating AI. Which I won't get into here, but the AI needs revisited.
When did I say health is the only measure of skill?
Health is one side, time is another. You showed skill and got some points for your quicker fight, but he made up for it with more health by using his skill.
This is about a ratio of points for health:time, You’re portraying this as all about health when it’s really not, and it’s quite a disingenuous point you keep making. Health is more important yes, because to me, Kabam and a lot of people, keeping your health is a greater measure of skill and RPG knowledge than a quick fight. Anyone can throw CGR at a fight and do it in 30 seconds, but to keep your health? You need to draft the right counter and then play it smart.
I like the new scoring in BGs awarding cleaner fights rather than who can blast through there fight the fastest. However there is type of situation that always grinds my gears. When you lose a good chunk of health but still finish the fight but still lose the round when your opponent doesn't finish the fight but they stayed healthy. In my opinion if you finish the fight and your opponent doesn't you should the match . The easy way to fix this is to add a "knockout bonus" to your score to ensure you are rewarded for winning fights.
This is going to sound weird, but it is precisely because of the time scoring change that they are never going to implement the "knockout bonus" you're describing.
A long time ago I suggested BG be scored by a priority system that in my opinion mirrored how players play the game in general. In general, defeating the defender is the top priority, doing so with the most amount of health remaining is the second priority, and doing it quickly is the third priority.
However, if I had to summarize all of the objections to such a scoring system from other players and devs alike, it would be (and I'm vastly oversimplifying here) the biggest benefit of what I call synthetic scoring systems is that they can be tweaked and adjusted to shift the meta around. A priority system like the one I described above is very difficult to adjust. It emphasizes one specific meta. A system with no one "priority" just points combined together where no one source of points is preeminent means the devs can tweak it from season to season as players adapt to the system. They can shift it to value time more or less, remaining health more or less, in incremental ways.
This is not something they are likely to give up on by either instituting directly, or indirectly with (large) bonus points, a priority scoring system. They want to be able to shift things around based on the data they see and what players are doing and not doing. The latest time adjustment is a part of that design philosophy in action.
A small victory bonus is not out of the question in the future: it would be consistent with their desire to be able to mix things up from time to time. But a large one designed to make victory an overwhelming advantage is in my opinion very unlikely.
I personally don’t view your match up as having been a great showcase of skill.
If you’d avoided being hit, you’d have had an equally quick matchup but more health. I’m not sure how your fight shows enough superior skill to beat the opponent.
I’m much more impressed with the other person in this fight personally, he performed better and won because of it.
(This isn’t a “you suck” post, I really don’t intend it to be that.)
You got hit in your fight, which opened up the door for the opponent to take only 50% longer than you but because they used their skill to avoid getting hit or losing health, they won.
We disagree on what constitutes as skill. Obviously we all try not to lose Health. Saying that's the only measure of skill is one-sided. Taking the Match down faster is another measure. That's the whole point of having a time metric. Now it's just a measure of who is fortunate enough not to have a lagging device and cooperating AI. Which I won't get into here, but the AI needs revisited.
When did I say health is the only measure of skill?
Health is one side, time is another. You showed skill and got some points for your quicker fight, but he made up for it with more health by using his skill.
This is about a ratio of points for health:time, You’re portraying this as all about health when it’s really not, and it’s quite a disingenuous point you keep making. Health is more important yes, because to me, Kabam and a lot of people, keeping your health is a greater measure of skill and RPG knowledge than a quick fight. Anyone can throw CGR at a fight and do it in 30 seconds, but to keep your health? You need to draft the right counter and then play it smart.
I don't recall Kabam specifically saying that keeping more Health is a greater measure of skill.
I personally don’t view your match up as having been a great showcase of skill.
If you’d avoided being hit, you’d have had an equally quick matchup but more health. I’m not sure how your fight shows enough superior skill to beat the opponent.
I’m much more impressed with the other person in this fight personally, he performed better and won because of it.
(This isn’t a “you suck” post, I really don’t intend it to be that.)
You got hit in your fight, which opened up the door for the opponent to take only 50% longer than you but because they used their skill to avoid getting hit or losing health, they won.
We disagree on what constitutes as skill. Obviously we all try not to lose Health. Saying that's the only measure of skill is one-sided. Taking the Match down faster is another measure. That's the whole point of having a time metric. Now it's just a measure of who is fortunate enough not to have a lagging device and cooperating AI. Which I won't get into here, but the AI needs revisited.
When did I say health is the only measure of skill?
Health is one side, time is another. You showed skill and got some points for your quicker fight, but he made up for it with more health by using his skill.
This is about a ratio of points for health:time, You’re portraying this as all about health when it’s really not, and it’s quite a disingenuous point you keep making. Health is more important yes, because to me, Kabam and a lot of people, keeping your health is a greater measure of skill and RPG knowledge than a quick fight. Anyone can throw CGR at a fight and do it in 30 seconds, but to keep your health? You need to draft the right counter and then play it smart.
I don't recall Kabam specifically saying that keeping more Health is a greater measure of skill.
Its the same reason they stopped revive farming...which i think you supported... Carelessly doing a fight for a fast kill is in a way equivalent to revive spamming...
I personally don’t view your match up as having been a great showcase of skill.
If you’d avoided being hit, you’d have had an equally quick matchup but more health. I’m not sure how your fight shows enough superior skill to beat the opponent.
I’m much more impressed with the other person in this fight personally, he performed better and won because of it.
(This isn’t a “you suck” post, I really don’t intend it to be that.)
You got hit in your fight, which opened up the door for the opponent to take only 50% longer than you but because they used their skill to avoid getting hit or losing health, they won.
We disagree on what constitutes as skill. Obviously we all try not to lose Health. Saying that's the only measure of skill is one-sided. Taking the Match down faster is another measure. That's the whole point of having a time metric. Now it's just a measure of who is fortunate enough not to have a lagging device and cooperating AI. Which I won't get into here, but the AI needs revisited.
When did I say health is the only measure of skill?
Health is one side, time is another. You showed skill and got some points for your quicker fight, but he made up for it with more health by using his skill.
This is about a ratio of points for health:time, You’re portraying this as all about health when it’s really not, and it’s quite a disingenuous point you keep making. Health is more important yes, because to me, Kabam and a lot of people, keeping your health is a greater measure of skill and RPG knowledge than a quick fight. Anyone can throw CGR at a fight and do it in 30 seconds, but to keep your health? You need to draft the right counter and then play it smart.
I don't recall Kabam specifically saying that keeping more Health is a greater measure of skill.
Its the same reason they stopped revive farming...which i think you supported... Carelessly doing a fight for a fast kill is in a way equivalent to revive spamming...
Literally two different subjects. That's a reach of a comparison.
I personally don’t view your match up as having been a great showcase of skill.
If you’d avoided being hit, you’d have had an equally quick matchup but more health. I’m not sure how your fight shows enough superior skill to beat the opponent.
I’m much more impressed with the other person in this fight personally, he performed better and won because of it.
(This isn’t a “you suck” post, I really don’t intend it to be that.)
You got hit in your fight, which opened up the door for the opponent to take only 50% longer than you but because they used their skill to avoid getting hit or losing health, they won.
We disagree on what constitutes as skill. Obviously we all try not to lose Health. Saying that's the only measure of skill is one-sided. Taking the Match down faster is another measure. That's the whole point of having a time metric. Now it's just a measure of who is fortunate enough not to have a lagging device and cooperating AI. Which I won't get into here, but the AI needs revisited.
When did I say health is the only measure of skill?
Health is one side, time is another. You showed skill and got some points for your quicker fight, but he made up for it with more health by using his skill.
This is about a ratio of points for health:time, You’re portraying this as all about health when it’s really not, and it’s quite a disingenuous point you keep making. Health is more important yes, because to me, Kabam and a lot of people, keeping your health is a greater measure of skill and RPG knowledge than a quick fight. Anyone can throw CGR at a fight and do it in 30 seconds, but to keep your health? You need to draft the right counter and then play it smart.
I don't recall Kabam specifically saying that keeping more Health is a greater measure of skill.
Kabam changed the scoring to make health more important. Kabam want the scoring system to represent skill in RPG drafts and in fighting well. These are facts.
It’s not a logical leap to realise this means that keeping health is a greater test of skill in RPG drafts and playing. If they thought doing fights faster was a greater test of skill, they would make it more important.
I personally don’t view your match up as having been a great showcase of skill.
If you’d avoided being hit, you’d have had an equally quick matchup but more health. I’m not sure how your fight shows enough superior skill to beat the opponent.
I’m much more impressed with the other person in this fight personally, he performed better and won because of it.
(This isn’t a “you suck” post, I really don’t intend it to be that.)
You got hit in your fight, which opened up the door for the opponent to take only 50% longer than you but because they used their skill to avoid getting hit or losing health, they won.
We disagree on what constitutes as skill. Obviously we all try not to lose Health. Saying that's the only measure of skill is one-sided. Taking the Match down faster is another measure. That's the whole point of having a time metric. Now it's just a measure of who is fortunate enough not to have a lagging device and cooperating AI. Which I won't get into here, but the AI needs revisited.
When did I say health is the only measure of skill?
Health is one side, time is another. You showed skill and got some points for your quicker fight, but he made up for it with more health by using his skill.
This is about a ratio of points for health:time, You’re portraying this as all about health when it’s really not, and it’s quite a disingenuous point you keep making. Health is more important yes, because to me, Kabam and a lot of people, keeping your health is a greater measure of skill and RPG knowledge than a quick fight. Anyone can throw CGR at a fight and do it in 30 seconds, but to keep your health? You need to draft the right counter and then play it smart.
I don't recall Kabam specifically saying that keeping more Health is a greater measure of skill.
Its the same reason they stopped revive farming...which i think you supported... Carelessly doing a fight for a fast kill is in a way equivalent to revive spamming...
Literally two different subjects. That's a reach of a comparison.
If that was a fight on a path you would have to heal up or spam a revive cause u went for the fast kill... The other guy has a very healthy doom for the next fight 🤷
So it’s not about finding the best system, it’s about being able to move the goal posts over time to keep new champs interesting and desirable beyond just being a counter. I think they could have accomplished that with nodes but being able to manipulate the scoring is definitely another tool. As long as it keeps shifting that makes sense. I’ll just be disappointed if it settles into this iteration.
I still won’t be convinced it’s better play to not win the fight and save some health but if that’s what it takes to win in this meta I’ll focus on tanky rank ups for a while.
So it’s not about finding the best system, it’s about being able to move the goal posts over time to keep new champs interesting and desirable beyond just being a counter. I think they could have accomplished that with nodes but being able to manipulate the scoring is definitely another tool. As long as it keeps shifting that makes sense. I’ll just be disappointed if it settles into this iteration.
I still won’t be convinced it’s better play to not win the fight and save some health but if that’s what it takes to win in this meta I’ll focus on tanky rank ups for a while.
U can r2 a 7* dup sassy, it willl still be melted by scorp or ht...
No, I’m ranking tanky champs for offense to end with more health. I’ll be testing that strategy for a while. Taking Herc and some other attackers out of the deck and focusing on those with the biggest health pools. That way if they take a few hits I still have a higher percentage of my health left and their typically lower damage doesn’t matter as much because I don’t need to win the fight.
I personally don’t view your match up as having been a great showcase of skill.
If you’d avoided being hit, you’d have had an equally quick matchup but more health. I’m not sure how your fight shows enough superior skill to beat the opponent.
I’m much more impressed with the other person in this fight personally, he performed better and won because of it.
(This isn’t a “you suck” post, I really don’t intend it to be that.)
You got hit in your fight, which opened up the door for the opponent to take only 50% longer than you but because they used their skill to avoid getting hit or losing health, they won.
We disagree on what constitutes as skill. Obviously we all try not to lose Health. Saying that's the only measure of skill is one-sided. Taking the Match down faster is another measure. That's the whole point of having a time metric. Now it's just a measure of who is fortunate enough not to have a lagging device and cooperating AI. Which I won't get into here, but the AI needs revisited.
When did I say health is the only measure of skill?
Health is one side, time is another. You showed skill and got some points for your quicker fight, but he made up for it with more health by using his skill.
This is about a ratio of points for health:time, You’re portraying this as all about health when it’s really not, and it’s quite a disingenuous point you keep making. Health is more important yes, because to me, Kabam and a lot of people, keeping your health is a greater measure of skill and RPG knowledge than a quick fight. Anyone can throw CGR at a fight and do it in 30 seconds, but to keep your health? You need to draft the right counter and then play it smart.
I don't recall Kabam specifically saying that keeping more Health is a greater measure of skill.
Its the same reason they stopped revive farming...which i think you supported... Carelessly doing a fight for a fast kill is in a way equivalent to revive spamming...
Literally two different subjects. That's a reach of a comparison.
If that was a fight on a path you would have to heal up or spam a revive cause u went for the fast kill... The other guy has a very healthy doom for the next fight 🤷
It's not. It's a 2 minute comparison of 3 vs. 3, and there are more aspects than just Health remaining.
I personally don’t view your match up as having been a great showcase of skill.
If you’d avoided being hit, you’d have had an equally quick matchup but more health. I’m not sure how your fight shows enough superior skill to beat the opponent.
I’m much more impressed with the other person in this fight personally, he performed better and won because of it.
(This isn’t a “you suck” post, I really don’t intend it to be that.)
You got hit in your fight, which opened up the door for the opponent to take only 50% longer than you but because they used their skill to avoid getting hit or losing health, they won.
We disagree on what constitutes as skill. Obviously we all try not to lose Health. Saying that's the only measure of skill is one-sided. Taking the Match down faster is another measure. That's the whole point of having a time metric. Now it's just a measure of who is fortunate enough not to have a lagging device and cooperating AI. Which I won't get into here, but the AI needs revisited.
When did I say health is the only measure of skill?
Health is one side, time is another. You showed skill and got some points for your quicker fight, but he made up for it with more health by using his skill.
This is about a ratio of points for health:time, You’re portraying this as all about health when it’s really not, and it’s quite a disingenuous point you keep making. Health is more important yes, because to me, Kabam and a lot of people, keeping your health is a greater measure of skill and RPG knowledge than a quick fight. Anyone can throw CGR at a fight and do it in 30 seconds, but to keep your health? You need to draft the right counter and then play it smart.
I don't recall Kabam specifically saying that keeping more Health is a greater measure of skill.
Kabam changed the scoring to make health more important. Kabam want the scoring system to represent skill in RPG drafts and in fighting well. These are facts.
It’s not a logical leap to realise this means that keeping health is a greater test of skill in RPG drafts and playing. If they thought doing fights faster was a greater test of skill, they would make it more important.
We don't know why Kabam changed it. I'd wager they changed it in part because Players requested the change.
1.) Pausing is an exploit used by cheaters and cowards who try to justify not fighting in a fighting game.
2.) I can appreciate the intent of the scoring change but I think it overvalues remaining health in its current state and could use a bit more tweaking. I’ve both won fights I felt the other guy should have won being 25 seconds faster than me and lost for the same reason. I don’t hate it but it just feels like it isn’t dialed in enough yet.
Comments
I know it’s different people with different views but this just highlights why there will never be a perfect solution…
Essentially that's what people are asking for. A system that makes perfection the goal.
Also worth noting that Doom is just OP in general. It's not so much skill as it is the same old Champs. That's my point.
If you’d avoided being hit, you’d have had an equally quick matchup but more health. I’m not sure how your fight shows enough superior skill to beat the opponent.
I’m much more impressed with the other person in this fight personally, he performed better and won because of it.
(This isn’t a “you suck” post, I really don’t intend it to be that.)
You got hit in your fight, which opened up the door for the opponent to take only 50% longer than you but because they used their skill to avoid getting hit or losing health, they won.
Did I draft better? I don’t think so.
Did I get hit less? No.
Did I win faster? No.
But I’m still the winner in points because I lost a smaller percentage of my health.
I think the 22 second difference here should have given my opponent the win.
Health is one side, time is another. You showed skill and got some points for your quicker fight, but he made up for it with more health by using his skill.
This is about a ratio of points for health:time,
You’re portraying this as all about health when it’s really not, and it’s quite a disingenuous point you keep making. Health is more important yes, because to me, Kabam and a lot of people, keeping your health is a greater measure of skill and RPG knowledge than a quick fight. Anyone can throw CGR at a fight and do it in 30 seconds, but to keep your health? You need to draft the right counter and then play it smart.
A long time ago I suggested BG be scored by a priority system that in my opinion mirrored how players play the game in general. In general, defeating the defender is the top priority, doing so with the most amount of health remaining is the second priority, and doing it quickly is the third priority.
However, if I had to summarize all of the objections to such a scoring system from other players and devs alike, it would be (and I'm vastly oversimplifying here) the biggest benefit of what I call synthetic scoring systems is that they can be tweaked and adjusted to shift the meta around. A priority system like the one I described above is very difficult to adjust. It emphasizes one specific meta. A system with no one "priority" just points combined together where no one source of points is preeminent means the devs can tweak it from season to season as players adapt to the system. They can shift it to value time more or less, remaining health more or less, in incremental ways.
This is not something they are likely to give up on by either instituting directly, or indirectly with (large) bonus points, a priority scoring system. They want to be able to shift things around based on the data they see and what players are doing and not doing. The latest time adjustment is a part of that design philosophy in action.
A small victory bonus is not out of the question in the future: it would be consistent with their desire to be able to mix things up from time to time. But a large one designed to make victory an overwhelming advantage is in my opinion very unlikely.
Carelessly doing a fight for a fast kill is in a way equivalent to revive spamming...
It’s not a logical leap to realise this means that keeping health is a greater test of skill in RPG drafts and playing. If they thought doing fights faster was a greater test of skill, they would make it more important.
The other guy has a very healthy doom for the next fight 🤷
I still won’t be convinced it’s better play to not win the fight and save some health but if that’s what it takes to win in this meta I’ll focus on tanky rank ups for a while.
1.) Pausing is an exploit used by cheaters and cowards who try to justify not fighting in a fighting game.
2.) I can appreciate the intent of the scoring change but I think it overvalues remaining health in its current state and could use a bit more tweaking. I’ve both won fights I felt the other guy should have won being 25 seconds faster than me and lost for the same reason. I don’t hate it but it just feels like it isn’t dialed in enough yet.