I Don't Want to Use Zemo Anymore

Seriously. I would like to formally request a rank-down-ticket for 6* and 5* versions.
Zemo went from an impressive champion, to super solid, and now finally average.

I would not have ranked him up if I had known he was being repeatedly nerfed.
Also, his furies are good and his Sp3 rotation is still solid, but that takes time ramping.

Comments

Furrymoosen

Rank down tokens have already been formally requested and officially denied. We live in a day and age in this game where no champions is safe for the first several months of their existence. You are not alone in rushing to rank up a champ that was subject to change and it is an unfortunate situation all around, but it is what it is at this point.

BigPoppaCBONE

"First several months"? LOL. Kabam weighs the customer outrage for nerf vs. theoretical losses for no nerf and chooses accordingly. The only thing stopping Kabam from nerfing more champs more often is Kabam, not some hard cap that they made up and could change whenever they feel like it.

SecondSkriller

Rank down tokens have already been formally requested and officially denied. We live in a day and age in this game where no champions is safe for the first several months of their existence. You are not alone in rushing to rank up a champ that was subject to change and it is an unfortunate situation all around, but it is what it is at this point.

Wrong, the request is still on and everyone agrees.

Furrymoosen

Rank down tokens have already been formally requested and officially denied. We live in a day and age in this game where no champions is safe for the first several months of their existence. You are not alone in rushing to rank up a champ that was subject to change and it is an unfortunate situation all around, but it is what it is at this point.
Wrong, the request is still on and everyone agrees.

What did I say that is wrong?

Colinwhitworth69

I have mine at rank 4 and will eventually rank him to r5. He was already behind a couple of other skill champs on my RU list (Attuma is my next skill r5 for sure), but the fix to his abilities did not change his ranking for me. I don't consider him average, and when you use him on nodes that proc his Cleanse he is pretty amazing. But against champs/nodes that do not proc Cleanse, like RoL WS punching bag, he takes a while to ramp up.

ORHypeBuffed

@Colinwhitworth69
You have to consider the state of the game changing constantly.
The nerfs were unnecessary because *NOW* newer metas will turn him into a relic of the past just like Cap IW.

Zemo isn't AA; he's not Warlock or Kitty, and certainly not Herc or Doom.

GroundedWisdom

@Colinwhitworth69
You have to consider the state of the game changing constantly.
The nerfs were unnecessary because *NOW* newer metas will turn him into a relic of the past just like Cap IW.

Zemo isn't AA; he's not Warlock or Kitty, and certainly not Herc or Doom.

No, he was worse.
Any Champ that can freeze the opponent in place and stop them from executing any Specials including L3s, is devastating to the game and future content. All you need is one Champ, and you can cheese anything.

Peps69

Simply because of the lack of communication (trello board post is a joke) the RD tickets should be issued. They can say they have a board in their kitchen were that bug was posted for 3 months and it will make the same. I did not know that this board existed and even that are we supposed to navigate through that to see if we can find a bug in the champion we like?. That's not my job, I already navigate my programming issues at work to do it for Kabam.

I used the offers in 4J to gather the skill t6cc to rank him up. For me it is not easy to get those materials. If I would've known all this I would up rank up Valkyrie or Kate Bishop (still waiting for the balance review

Colinwhitworth69

@Colinwhitworth69
You have to consider the state of the game changing constantly.
The nerfs were unnecessary because *NOW* newer metas will turn him into a relic of the past just like Cap IW.

Zemo isn't AA; he's not Warlock or Kitty, and certainly not Herc or Doom.

I do not consider him nerfed. And with the game changing constantly (agree, nothing new about that), any champ can be minimized by new nodes or new counters that are released. That has been happening for years.

When you refer to "metas" I assume you are referring to BGs, which is not my main interest in the game. I still believe he has uses in BGs. Good defender, great against champs that purify or proc his cleanse.

Any re: your last comment, I am not sure what you are trying to say, because all of those things are obvious and are of course true about most champs in the game. He was never an attacker I would bring in to any fight; always a sharp tool in my toolbox, and remains as such.

Drago_von_Drago

@Colinwhitworth69
You have to consider the state of the game changing constantly.
The nerfs were unnecessary because *NOW* newer metas will turn him into a relic of the past just like Cap IW.

Zemo isn't AA; he's not Warlock or Kitty, and certainly not Herc or Doom.
No, he was worse.
Any Champ that can freeze the opponent in place and stop them from executing any Specials including L3s, is devastating to the game and future content. All you need is one Champ, and you can cheese anything.

It’s been explained repeatedly that a single node or champ ability can prevent this just like they have introduced counters to every other top tier champ over time. Devastating is an extreme exaggeration.

ahmynuts

You rn

GroundedWisdom

@Colinwhitworth69
You have to consider the state of the game changing constantly.
The nerfs were unnecessary because *NOW* newer metas will turn him into a relic of the past just like Cap IW.

Zemo isn't AA; he's not Warlock or Kitty, and certainly not Herc or Doom.
No, he was worse.
Any Champ that can freeze the opponent in place and stop them from executing any Specials including L3s, is devastating to the game and future content. All you need is one Champ, and you can cheese anything.
It’s been explained repeatedly that a single node or champ ability can prevent this just like they have introduced counters to every other top tier champ over time. Devastating is an extreme exaggeration.

Right. So do you propose that every Node in the future contains that, or every Node has said Champ placed on it?

GroundedWisdom

When you pigeon hole their design constraints, that's devastating to the game.

pseudosane

If you dont want to play with him.... dont. RDTs arent required for this reason.

Drago_von_Drago

@Colinwhitworth69
You have to consider the state of the game changing constantly.
The nerfs were unnecessary because *NOW* newer metas will turn him into a relic of the past just like Cap IW.

Zemo isn't AA; he's not Warlock or Kitty, and certainly not Herc or Doom.
No, he was worse.
Any Champ that can freeze the opponent in place and stop them from executing any Specials including L3s, is devastating to the game and future content. All you need is one Champ, and you can cheese anything.
It’s been explained repeatedly that a single node or champ ability can prevent this just like they have introduced counters to every other top tier champ over time. Devastating is an extreme exaggeration.
Right. So do you propose that every Node in the future contains that, or every Node has said Champ placed on it?

No, the same way the didn’t node around Herc or Ghost or Kitty or Quake or Corvus or (insert other top of the meta at one time or another champ here), it doesn’t need to be done every time. Zemo wasn’t being used now to steamroll content like herc and, in the past quake, were used. People are making it out that Zemo has been a cheat code since release which is not what I’ve seen.

GroundedWisdom

I don't think you realize how broken it is to have a Champ do what he could do.
He WAS a cheat code in that state. It was only a matter of time before everyone started using it.

BigBlueOx

If you dont want to play with him.... dont. RDTs arent required for this reason.

Agree there, but there’s is more than valid reasons why they should be.

1.) Root nerf was not included in the balancing announcement so it’s fair to say the champion was changed a second time, silently, and outside of the communicated process

2.) Trello, where there was a note, is a tool that is not reliably used and is often out of date or vague in detail.

3.) Only a small percentage of the forum community even knew about Trello. The forums as we’ve been told by Kabam are a very small vocal minority f the player base. So only a percentage of a percentage of players may have been aware.

4.) We have never been told to consult Trello for official communications. There is no link to Trello in the game so it’s not apparent that resource would need to be consulted when weighing irreversible decisions.

5.) Kabam themselves are inconsistent about bufg reporting on Trello vs the Forums, which creates confusions about where players should look.

Really these are all sub points to one larger one about established and visible communication pathways not being utilized here, but RDT should be issued.

KnightOfTheRealm

@Colinwhitworth69
You have to consider the state of the game changing constantly.
The nerfs were unnecessary because *NOW* newer metas will turn him into a relic of the past just like Cap IW.

Zemo isn't AA; he's not Warlock or Kitty, and certainly not Herc or Doom.
No, he was worse.
Any Champ that can freeze the opponent in place and stop them from executing any Specials including L3s, is devastating to the game and future content. All you need is one Champ, and you can cheese anything.

Bro thinks zemo is more broken than doom and herc

Chris_Summers

You rn

poor Woody… 🥺😭😭😭

GroundedWisdom

@Colinwhitworth69
You have to consider the state of the game changing constantly.
The nerfs were unnecessary because *NOW* newer metas will turn him into a relic of the past just like Cap IW.

Zemo isn't AA; he's not Warlock or Kitty, and certainly not Herc or Doom.
No, he was worse.
Any Champ that can freeze the opponent in place and stop them from executing any Specials including L3s, is devastating to the game and future content. All you need is one Champ, and you can cheese anything.
Bro thinks zemo is more broken than doom and herc

Yes, I do. If a Champ can lock the opponent in place and perform an infinite Special Lock you can cycle through infinitely, then that is about as broken as it gets. There's no getting out of that for the AI.

pseudosane

If you dont want to play with him.... dont. RDTs arent required for this reason.
Agree there, but there’s is more than valid reasons why they should be.

1.) Root nerf was not included in the balancing announcement so it’s fair to say the champion was changed a second time, silently, and outside of the communicated process

2.) Trello, where there was a note, is a tool that is not reliably used and is often out of date or vague in detail.

3.) Only a small percentage of the forum community even knew about Trello. The forums as we’ve been told by Kabam are a very small vocal minority f the player base. So only a percentage of a percentage of players may have been aware.

4.) We have never been told to consult Trello for official communications. There is no link to Trello in the game so it’s not apparent that resource would need to be consulted when weighing irreversible decisions.

5.) Kabam themselves are inconsistent about bufg reporting on Trello vs the Forums, which creates confusions about where players should look.

Really these are all sub points to one larger one about established and visible communication pathways not being utilized here, but RDT should be issued.

Tbf, very few folks actually ranked him ONLY for this "root" interaction. Zemo is a tough and annoying defender in war and BGs. His utility outside of the "root cheese" is still there. the only change was he cannot lock champs from an sp3 anymore, which isnt a huge part of his kit.

[Deleted User]

If you dont want to play with him.... dont. RDTs arent required for this reason.
Agree there, but there’s is more than valid reasons why they should be.

1.) Root nerf was not included in the balancing announcement so it’s fair to say the champion was changed a second time, silently, and outside of the communicated process

2.) Trello, where there was a note, is a tool that is not reliably used and is often out of date or vague in detail.

3.) Only a small percentage of the forum community even knew about Trello. The forums as we’ve been told by Kabam are a very small vocal minority f the player base. So only a percentage of a percentage of players may have been aware.

4.) We have never been told to consult Trello for official communications. There is no link to Trello in the game so it’s not apparent that resource would need to be consulted when weighing irreversible decisions.

5.) Kabam themselves are inconsistent about bufg reporting on Trello vs the Forums, which creates confusions about where players should look.

Really these are all sub points to one larger one about established and visible communication pathways not being utilized here, but RDT should be issued.
Tbf, very few folks actually ranked him ONLY for this "root" interaction. Zemo is a tough and annoying defender in war and BGs. His utility outside of the "root cheese" is still there. the only change was he cannot lock champs from an sp3 anymore, which isnt a huge part of his kit.

For sure, I'll be the first one to deny the Zemo hate train. But if very few folks are affected, then Kabam can send out those RDT's due to their multiple failures in this situation and those very few folks will use them. If they don't send the tickets, I'm personally going to be worried about how changes like these are gonna be handled down the line. Zemo and Kraven are the least of my worries, it's just so many failures in communication being sidestepped by such an insignificant warning on the Trello board.

BigBlueOx

If you dont want to play with him.... dont. RDTs arent required for this reason.
Agree there, but there’s is more than valid reasons why they should be.

1.) Root nerf was not included in the balancing announcement so it’s fair to say the champion was changed a second time, silently, and outside of the communicated process

2.) Trello, where there was a note, is a tool that is not reliably used and is often out of date or vague in detail.

3.) Only a small percentage of the forum community even knew about Trello. The forums as we’ve been told by Kabam are a very small vocal minority f the player base. So only a percentage of a percentage of players may have been aware.

4.) We have never been told to consult Trello for official communications. There is no link to Trello in the game so it’s not apparent that resource would need to be consulted when weighing irreversible decisions.

5.) Kabam themselves are inconsistent about bufg reporting on Trello vs the Forums, which creates confusions about where players should look.

Really these are all sub points to one larger one about established and visible communication pathways not being utilized here, but RDT should be issued.
Tbf, very few folks actually ranked him ONLY for this "root" interaction. Zemo is a tough and annoying defender in war and BGs. His utility outside of the "root cheese" is still there. the only change was he cannot lock champs from an sp3 anymore, which isnt a huge part of his kit.

I don’t think that’s a statement that is supported by anything other than anecdotal evidence. In my conversations anybody I’ve discussed this with regrets taking Zemo to R4 or higher because of this change in combination with the removal of his armor up buff interaction. It removed 2 very fun interactions from his kit and gives him niche utility that’s fine at R3 and makes him a very mid tier skill champ. These interactions that made him worth considering ranking up over say a Nick Fury.

But that’s just been from the players I’ve talked to about this.

Vegeta9001

I don't like my Zemo anymore, can I have a 7* Quake instead please.

pseudosane

If you dont want to play with him.... dont. RDTs arent required for this reason.
Agree there, but there’s is more than valid reasons why they should be.

1.) Root nerf was not included in the balancing announcement so it’s fair to say the champion was changed a second time, silently, and outside of the communicated process

2.) Trello, where there was a note, is a tool that is not reliably used and is often out of date or vague in detail.

3.) Only a small percentage of the forum community even knew about Trello. The forums as we’ve been told by Kabam are a very small vocal minority f the player base. So only a percentage of a percentage of players may have been aware.

4.) We have never been told to consult Trello for official communications. There is no link to Trello in the game so it’s not apparent that resource would need to be consulted when weighing irreversible decisions.

5.) Kabam themselves are inconsistent about bufg reporting on Trello vs the Forums, which creates confusions about where players should look.

Really these are all sub points to one larger one about established and visible communication pathways not being utilized here, but RDT should be issued.
Tbf, very few folks actually ranked him ONLY for this "root" interaction. Zemo is a tough and annoying defender in war and BGs. His utility outside of the "root cheese" is still there. the only change was he cannot lock champs from an sp3 anymore, which isnt a huge part of his kit.
For sure, I'll be the first one to deny the Zemo hate train. But if very few folks are affected, then Kabam can send out those RDT's due to their multiple failures in this situation and those very few folks will use them. If they don't send the tickets, I'm personally going to be worried about how changes like these are gonna be handled down the line. Zemo and Kraven are the least of my worries, it's just so many failures in communication being sidestepped by such an insignificant warning on the Trello board.

no, there is no reason for an ulterior motive playing into this. The same mats can be used to r2 a 7* for example. This was a broken interaction, and basing a champ on a broken interaction, and then blowing stuff out of proportion is what we do best, as a community. I, personally, was at the forefront of overreacting when moleman got "nerfed", saying he would be unusable. The same person, me, now am planning on r5ing Moleman. Zemo cannot be defined on a small set of broken interactions.
Kraven is a different case and i'd agree a rankdown ticket there may be warranted.

If you dont want to play with him.... dont. RDTs arent required for this reason.
Agree there, but there’s is more than valid reasons why they should be.

1.) Root nerf was not included in the balancing announcement so it’s fair to say the champion was changed a second time, silently, and outside of the communicated process

2.) Trello, where there was a note, is a tool that is not reliably used and is often out of date or vague in detail.

3.) Only a small percentage of the forum community even knew about Trello. The forums as we’ve been told by Kabam are a very small vocal minority f the player base. So only a percentage of a percentage of players may have been aware.

4.) We have never been told to consult Trello for official communications. There is no link to Trello in the game so it’s not apparent that resource would need to be consulted when weighing irreversible decisions.

5.) Kabam themselves are inconsistent about bufg reporting on Trello vs the Forums, which creates confusions about where players should look.

Really these are all sub points to one larger one about established and visible communication pathways not being utilized here, but RDT should be issued.
Tbf, very few folks actually ranked him ONLY for this "root" interaction. Zemo is a tough and annoying defender in war and BGs. His utility outside of the "root cheese" is still there. the only change was he cannot lock champs from an sp3 anymore, which isnt a huge part of his kit.
I don’t think that’s a statement that is supported by anything other than anecdotal evidence. In my conversations anybody I’ve discussed this with regrets taking Zemo to R4 or higher because of this change in combination with the removal of his armor up buff interaction. It removed 2 very fun interactions from his kit and gives him niche utility that’s fine at R3 and makes him a very mid tier skill champ. These interactions that made him worth considering ranking up over say a Nick Fury.

But that’s just been from the players I’ve talked to about this.

Then i can add my experience where nobody I've talked to is regretting their decision. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence.

[Deleted User]

If you dont want to play with him.... dont. RDTs arent required for this reason.
Agree there, but there’s is more than valid reasons why they should be.

1.) Root nerf was not included in the balancing announcement so it’s fair to say the champion was changed a second time, silently, and outside of the communicated process

2.) Trello, where there was a note, is a tool that is not reliably used and is often out of date or vague in detail.

3.) Only a small percentage of the forum community even knew about Trello. The forums as we’ve been told by Kabam are a very small vocal minority f the player base. So only a percentage of a percentage of players may have been aware.

4.) We have never been told to consult Trello for official communications. There is no link to Trello in the game so it’s not apparent that resource would need to be consulted when weighing irreversible decisions.

5.) Kabam themselves are inconsistent about bufg reporting on Trello vs the Forums, which creates confusions about where players should look.

Really these are all sub points to one larger one about established and visible communication pathways not being utilized here, but RDT should be issued.
Tbf, very few folks actually ranked him ONLY for this "root" interaction. Zemo is a tough and annoying defender in war and BGs. His utility outside of the "root cheese" is still there. the only change was he cannot lock champs from an sp3 anymore, which isnt a huge part of his kit.
For sure, I'll be the first one to deny the Zemo hate train. But if very few folks are affected, then Kabam can send out those RDT's due to their multiple failures in this situation and those very few folks will use them. If they don't send the tickets, I'm personally going to be worried about how changes like these are gonna be handled down the line. Zemo and Kraven are the least of my worries, it's just so many failures in communication being sidestepped by such an insignificant warning on the Trello board.
no, there is no reason for an ulterior motive playing into this. The same mats can be used to r2 a 7* for example. This was a broken interaction, and basing a champ on a broken interaction, and then blowing stuff out of proportion is what we do best, as a community. I, personally, was at the forefront of overreacting when moleman got "nerfed", saying he would be unusable. The same person, me, now am planning on r5ing Moleman. Zemo cannot be defined on a small set of broken interactions.
Kraven is a different case and i'd agree a rankdown ticket there may be warranted.

Yes, a broken interaction with a broken level of communication. I, personally, was not worried at all about the Mole Man fix. It always said in his abilities how the ability was intended to work, and any player could easily see that. In this situation, not only was the ability never given a description, in game or elsewhere, it was said to be working as intended back in 2021. It was then publicly advertised by beta testers countless times, even while Kabam was looking into how to change it. It doesn't matter whether the ability was broken or whether Zemo is a good champion. Players spent a lot of money investing in champions while under the reasonable impression that their investments wouldn't go to waste. Kabam could've avoided that entirely, but they didn't. They made mistake after mistake, and there are people getting screwed over because of it. Maybe it's a lot of people, maybe it's a little, but knowing it could happen to me some day definitely doesn't put my mind at ease.

BigBlueOx

Then i can add my experience where nobody I've talked to is regretting their decision. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence.

Exactly my point to your original reply.

KnightOfTheRealm

@Colinwhitworth69
You have to consider the state of the game changing constantly.
The nerfs were unnecessary because *NOW* newer metas will turn him into a relic of the past just like Cap IW.

Zemo isn't AA; he's not Warlock or Kitty, and certainly not Herc or Doom.
No, he was worse.
Any Champ that can freeze the opponent in place and stop them from executing any Specials including L3s, is devastating to the game and future content. All you need is one Champ, and you can cheese anything.
Bro thinks zemo is more broken than doom and herc
Yes, I do. If a Champ can lock the opponent in place and perform an infinite Special Lock you can cycle through infinitely, then that is about as broken as it gets. There's no getting out of that for the AI.

Then explain the difference between that and the doom cycle, where an opponent is unable to use a special the entire fight and all power constantly benefits doom? Infinite cycle and has way way way way way more damage than Zemo

GroundedWisdom

@Colinwhitworth69
You have to consider the state of the game changing constantly.
The nerfs were unnecessary because *NOW* newer metas will turn him into a relic of the past just like Cap IW.

Zemo isn't AA; he's not Warlock or Kitty, and certainly not Herc or Doom.
No, he was worse.
Any Champ that can freeze the opponent in place and stop them from executing any Specials including L3s, is devastating to the game and future content. All you need is one Champ, and you can cheese anything.
Bro thinks zemo is more broken than doom and herc
Yes, I do. If a Champ can lock the opponent in place and perform an infinite Special Lock you can cycle through infinitely, then that is about as broken as it gets. There's no getting out of that for the AI.
Then explain the difference between that and the doom cycle, where an opponent is unable to use a special the entire fight and all power constantly benefits doom? Infinite cycle and has way way way way way more damage than Zemo

That doesn't freeze them in place and prevent them from moving.

altavista

Then explain the difference between that and the doom cycle, where an opponent is unable to use a special the entire fight and all power constantly benefits doom? Infinite cycle and has way way way way way more damage than Zemo

Would be unpopular, but I imagine if Doom was released within the past year, that this ability would be changed.