How can dexterity buffs be failed for buff immune champs

Sector1988

I have just been in AW and fought a wiccan who was incinerating my Spidey 2099. How can he do this if spidey is buff immune? How can neutralize work on buff immune champs? That does not make sense Kabam.

Comments

MiniMF

maybe the nulllify on dext precision activates before the immunity but if thats the case this is unfair

Maratox

Order of operations. The buff has to try to trigger before the immunity can kick in

Havanaknight

This is the way it’s been. Do some searches and you’ll find really long debates - probably about every couple months. Personally disagree with the “order of operations” argument. The language of wiccans text “when the opponents ability fails due to reduced ability accuracy or wiccans personal immunities.”

What causes s99 to not trigger a precision buff? Reduced ability accuracy or immunity?

Sector1988

The thing is, it does not work for that versus champs like Maw or Mojo. Yes neutralize is different, but still it makes no sense to me. If the buff activated momentarily, then we should take Mojo's degen for instance. Weird interaction

Maratox

The thing is, it does not work for that versus champs like Maw or Mojo. Yes neutralize is different, but still it makes no sense to me. If the buff activated momentarily, then we should take Mojo's degen for instance. Weird interaction

You said it yourself, neutralize is completely different than a nullify or expiry effect. With a nullify or expiry effect there is a buff on the other champion. That’s why buff immune champs are really good for mojo and maw. Because they don’t ever gain buffs. But neutralize checks if a buff WOULD trigger, regardless of immunity. When spidey99 dexes, a buff would trigger, that’s how he gains his debuff pause. But if neutralize fails that chance for the precision to attempt to trigger, then it inflicts an incinerate. It’s not a weird interaction at all

Pikolu

This is the way it’s been. Do some searches and you’ll find really long debates - probably about every couple months. Personally disagree with the “order of operations” argument. The language of wiccans text “when the opponents ability fails due to reduced ability accuracy or wiccans personal immunities.”

What causes s99 to not trigger a precision buff? Reduced ability accuracy or immunity?

Just want to point out that ability accuracy always has to be checked before an immunity. Also just use people who can't get the precision from dex period like Silk or QS. Shuri also should work too, not sure too much about her though.

Wolf911

The thing is, it does not work for that versus champs like Maw or Mojo. Yes neutralize is different, but still it makes no sense to me. If the buff activated momentarily, then we should take Mojo's degen for instance. Weird interaction
You said it yourself, neutralize is completely different than a nullify or expiry effect. With a nullify or expiry effect there is a buff on the other champion. That’s why buff immune champs are really good for mojo and maw. Because they don’t ever gain buffs. But neutralize checks if a buff WOULD trigger, regardless of immunity. When spidey99 dexes, a buff would trigger, that’s how he gains his debuff pause. But if neutralize fails that chance for the precision to attempt to trigger, then it inflicts an incinerate. It’s not a weird interaction at all

THIS

buff immune means they are immune to buffs, it doesn't mean that those champs don't try to trigger the buffs ( they trigger buffs but the buff immunity doesn't allow them to have those buffs on them )

when they try to trigger the buffs that's where the neutralize comes into picture it reduces ability accuracy to trigger the buffs

that's why when you dex while neutralized the buff fails to trigger and you get incinerated in case of wiccan or rintrah gains his power gain ( if duped )

also it's not weird as you can see from BWCV's buff immunity debuff on sp2 the opponents may already have buffs or trigger them later but this debuff doesn't allow them to have any buffs on them

Wolf911

The thing is, it does not work for that versus champs like Maw or Mojo. Yes neutralize is different, but still it makes no sense to me. If the buff activated momentarily, then we should take Mojo's degen for instance. Weird interaction

for your mojo argument

for mojo to degen you, u must have a buff on yourself that expires but buff immunity doesn't allow you to have any buffs on yourself

Maratox

This is the way it’s been. Do some searches and you’ll find really long debates - probably about every couple months. Personally disagree with the “order of operations” argument. The language of wiccans text “when the opponents ability fails due to reduced ability accuracy or wiccans personal immunities.”

What causes s99 to not trigger a precision buff? Reduced ability accuracy or immunity?

Just want to point out that ability accuracy always has to be checked before an immunity. Also just use people who can't get the precision from dex period like Silk or QS. Shuri also should work too, not sure too much about her though.

They should probably change the wording of shuri then. Because she says that she’s immune to precision effects that are not her own. Based on that wording, shouldn’t she still be incinerated by Wiccan?

Sector1988

The easy way to combat i guess is to take off dex for that fight. Obv in practice war, no one's wasting units. I've noticed the interaction with rintrah, but thought it occurred because his neutralize is passive. Guess this is why we do practice war to make mistakes (and get loyalty)

DNA3000

The thing is, it does not work for that versus champs like Maw or Mojo. Yes neutralize is different, but still it makes no sense to me. If the buff activated momentarily, then we should take Mojo's degen for instance. Weird interaction

I'm not sure why this seems weird to some people. Immunity to an effect doesn't mean the effect never happened. If you're immune to bullets does that mean they never fire? No, it means the bullet fired, it traveled to you, struck you, and then bounced off.

Let's replace "buff" with "bullet" and consider this situation. Suppose there was a game rule that said if a bullet misfires, the shooter takes damage. Makes sense, right? Gun misfires, something bad happens. Okay, now imagine the shooter aims at a target immune to bullets. Does that mean his gun never misfires, because the target is immune to bullets so that means his gun simply never even attempts to fire. The pistol just looks at the target, shrugs its shoulders, and says "why bother" and when the shooter pulls the trigger the gun just says no.

That obviously doesn't make sense. In this situation whether the target is immune to bullets or not, when the shooter pulls the trigger the gun should fire. And if it fires it should have a chance to misfire.

Now imagine the shooter pulls the trigger, the gun misfires and he takes damage, and then he goes to a message board to say the game is wrong because he was aiming at a bullet-immune target, so the gun should have never even *tried* to go off, so it couldn't possible misfire. Would you be on his side?

DNA3000

Maybe the problem is a conceptual problem. We think of debuffs has having a source and a target. One champion throws the debuff, and it lands on another champion. It activates here, and it lands there.

But I think many people think of buffs differently. They don't have sources and destinations. They just are. They turn on, or the don't turn on, like a light switch. So how can a buff turn on, but not turn on?

Actually, buffs are effects just like debuffs. And all effects have a source and a destination. A source triggers them, then they fly to the target, and then when they get there they either land on the target or they bounce off and don't land on the target. Activation happens here, but immunity happens there. Activation happens first, immunity happens later, only after the effect "reaches" the target.

It is a coincidence that most buffs in MCOC have the same source and target. Some buffs don't: Dr. Voodoo's Loas, for example, have a different target than the source. And in games with more than one attacker and one target, buffs can come from all over the place and land on targets other than the caster all the time. It is specifically here in MCOC, with only one attacker and only one defender, that the notion that Buffs don't have separate sources and targets gets blurry.

Buffs are not switches that get turned on or off. Buffs are arrows that get fired by a shooter and then land on the target. Usually the target is the shooter, but not always, and regardless the act of shooting and the act of landing on the target and affecting it (or not affecting it as the case may be) are two completely separate things. First you see if the shot is fired, and then you see if the shot lands. Activation, immunity.

ErmanHarith0802

This is the way it’s been. Do some searches and you’ll find really long debates - probably about every couple months. Personally disagree with the “order of operations” argument. The language of wiccans text “when the opponents ability fails due to reduced ability accuracy or wiccans personal immunities.”

What causes s99 to not trigger a precision buff? Reduced ability accuracy or immunity?

Just want to point out that ability accuracy always has to be checked before an immunity. Also just use people who can't get the precision from dex period like Silk or QS. Shuri also should work too, not sure too much about her though.
They should probably change the wording of shuri then. Because she says that she’s immune to precision effects that are not her own. Based on that wording, shouldn’t she still be incinerated by Wiccan?

Shuri's ability accuracy can't be reduced, and since neutralize reduces buff ability accuracy, she wouldn't be incinerated

VanillaCoke

The problem is having dex as a buff, when in reality players use the mastery for the utility (being able to dodge attacks and specials). If dex was not a buff, it would alleviate this issue

Ortoun

Maybe the problem is a conceptual problem. We think of debuffs has having a source and a target. One champion throws the debuff, and it lands on another champion. It activates here, and it lands there.

But I think many people think of buffs differently. They don't have sources and destinations. They just are. They turn on, or the don't turn on, like a light switch. So how can a buff turn on, but not turn on?

Actually, buffs are effects just like debuffs. And all effects have a source and a destination. A source triggers them, then they fly to the target, and then when they get there they either land on the target or they bounce off and don't land on the target. Activation happens here, but immunity happens there. Activation happens first, immunity happens later, only after the effect "reaches" the target.

It is a coincidence that most buffs in MCOC have the same source and target. Some buffs don't: Dr. Voodoo's Loas, for example, have a different target than the source. And in games with more than one attacker and one target, buffs can come from all over the place and land on targets other than the caster all the time. It is specifically here in MCOC, with only one attacker and only one defender, that the notion that Buffs don't have separate sources and targets gets blurry.

Buffs are not switches that get turned on or off. Buffs are arrows that get fired by a shooter and then land on the target. Usually the target is the shooter, but not always, and regardless the act of shooting and the act of landing on the target and affecting it (or not affecting it as the case may be) are two completely separate things. First you see if the shot is fired, and then you see if the shot lands. Activation, immunity.

Neutralize and tranquilze both work on both targets, as long as it is something the opponent tried to initiate. Mantis can block kingpin from gaining a rage, and neutralize can stop placebo or rising sun from placing buffs on you (assume it would work for loas also) makes some interesting interactions.

Maratox

This is the way it’s been. Do some searches and you’ll find really long debates - probably about every couple months. Personally disagree with the “order of operations” argument. The language of wiccans text “when the opponents ability fails due to reduced ability accuracy or wiccans personal immunities.”

What causes s99 to not trigger a precision buff? Reduced ability accuracy or immunity?

Just want to point out that ability accuracy always has to be checked before an immunity. Also just use people who can't get the precision from dex period like Silk or QS. Shuri also should work too, not sure too much about her though.
They should probably change the wording of shuri then. Because she says that she’s immune to precision effects that are not her own. Based on that wording, shouldn’t she still be incinerated by Wiccan?
Shuri's ability accuracy can't be reduced, and since neutralize reduces buff ability accuracy, she wouldn't be incinerated

Right you are! Thank you for that

Havanaknight

Maybe the problem is a conceptual problem. We think of debuffs has having a source and a target. One champion throws the debuff, and it lands on another champion. It activates here, and it lands there.

But I think many people think of buffs differently. They don't have sources and destinations. They just are. They turn on, or the don't turn on, like a light switch. So how can a buff turn on, but not turn on?

Actually, buffs are effects just like debuffs. And all effects have a source and a destination. A source triggers them, then they fly to the target, and then when they get there they either land on the target or they bounce off and don't land on the target. Activation happens here, but immunity happens there. Activation happens first, immunity happens later, only after the effect "reaches" the target.

It is a coincidence that most buffs in MCOC have the same source and target. Some buffs don't: Dr. Voodoo's Loas, for example, have a different target than the source. And in games with more than one attacker and one target, buffs can come from all over the place and land on targets other than the caster all the time. It is specifically here in MCOC, with only one attacker and only one defender, that the notion that Buffs don't have separate sources and targets gets blurry.

Buffs are not switches that get turned on or off. Buffs are arrows that get fired by a shooter and then land on the target. Usually the target is the shooter, but not always, and regardless the act of shooting and the act of landing on the target and affecting it (or not affecting it as the case may be) are two completely separate things. First you see if the shot is fired, and then you see if the shot lands. Activation, immunity.

I’m coming around to the idea of this being the correct interaction (still kinda dumb, but correct).

For me the issue is the language of neutralize didn’t mesh with how I thought of the interaction. Tigras description says “if a neutralized champion fails to gain a buff by chance…” I look at that as a buff immune champ has a 0% chance of triggering a buff and shouldn’t trigger a rupture (but s99 will - I tested it).

Wiccan’s ability says “if an ability fails to trigger through reduced ability accuracy.” At first I was thinking the same thing - s99 has no chance to trigger a buff, so precision isn’t not triggering because of Wiccan, it fails because of s99’s immunity.

However - if you look at s99’s description, he gets his debuffs paused if he prevents a buff because of immunity. So - wait for it - neutralize is preventing s99 (and other buff immune champs) from triggering their ability that is triggered by their buff immunity because they won’t have an opportunity to suppress the buff from triggering.

Now, this makes Titania an interesting test case. She has no ability that triggers when she should trigger a buff (unlike red guardian, antman, Cassie, and s99). Currently she triggers incinerate vs Wiccan. But should she? This would make it seem like buff immunity (and immunity in general) is an ability that is subject to ability accuracy manipulation and not an innate feature of the champ.

o_o

I appreciate these explanations and accept that this is how the game works. I also reserve the right to continue being super annoyed every time this interaction occurs.

JustWantTheRewards

I appreciate these explanations and accept that this is how the game works. I also reserve the right to continue being super annoyed every time this interaction occurs.

Agreed. It's never sat right with me that some abilities are designed to punish champions for attempting to gain something that they cannot possibly gain. That, plus the pretty lacking information in game to help understand how the interaction works is just one of those inconvenient things mcoc has going on sometimes.

ReignkingTW

Agreed. It's overly complex and dumb.

Magrailothos

.

.. this makes Titania an interesting test case. She has no ability that triggers when she should trigger a buff (unlike red guardian, antman, Cassie, and s99). Currently she triggers incinerate vs Wiccan. But should she? This would make it seem like buff immunity (and immunity in general) is an ability that is subject to ability accuracy manipulation and not an innate feature of the champ.

You're almost there.

Buff immunity (or any immunity) is an ability.

When does an (immunity) ability get tested?
When an effect is being applied (a buff, debuff, passive, etc).
So the effect needs to be triggered, before an immunity is tested.

---

Let's compare Titania and Quicksilver. When Quicksilver and Titania dash back to avoid an attack, both avoid the attack and neither ends up with a Precision buff; but the mechanisms they use to make this happen are very different.

Titania's "Buff immunity" means that when she uses Dexterity, she checks for success (Domino or Photon can **** you up here!), And if she's successful, success triggers a buff*, and then the game engine tries to it to herself. Her immunity is tested at the point the game engine tries to apply the buff, and so it doesn't stick.

However, Neutralise means that at point * she fails to trigger the buff (and Wiccan causes her to get incinerated). From Wiccan's perspective, the fact the buff wouldn't have stuck to her because of her immunity is immaterial: she never gets as far as the word 'then'.

Compare this to Quicksilver. He's not immune to buffs, but his abilities remove the Dexterity Mastery.

When Quicksilver uses Dexterity he can't, so he uses his 'can't be struck whilst dashing back' ability instead. Since he never uses Dexterity, he never gets to point * and never tries to generate a Precision buff in the first place.

Because he never tries to generate a Precision buff in the first place, Wiccan never has any buff failure to punish.

AverageDesi

This is the way it’s been. Do some searches and you’ll find really long debates - probably about every couple months. Personally disagree with the “order of operations” argument. The language of wiccans text “when the opponents ability fails due to reduced ability accuracy or wiccans personal immunities.”

What causes s99 to not trigger a precision buff? Reduced ability accuracy or immunity?

Just want to point out that ability accuracy always has to be checked before an immunity. Also just use people who can't get the precision from dex period like Silk or QS. Shuri also should work too, not sure too much about her though.
They should probably change the wording of shuri then. Because she says that she’s immune to precision effects that are not her own. Based on that wording, shouldn’t she still be incinerated by Wiccan?
Shuri's ability accuracy can't be reduced, and since neutralize reduces buff ability accuracy, she wouldn't be incinerated
Right you are! Thank you for that

Shuri overall is a weird case . She's not immune to AAR but she cannot have her ability accuracy altered either. Kind of like Corvus Hlaive and bleed

Wubbie075

Maybe the problem is a conceptual problem. We think of debuffs has having a source and a target. One champion throws the debuff, and it lands on another champion. It activates here, and it lands there.

But I think many people think of buffs differently. They don't have sources and destinations. They just are. They turn on, or the don't turn on, like a light switch. So how can a buff turn on, but not turn on?

Actually, buffs are effects just like debuffs. And all effects have a source and a destination. A source triggers them, then they fly to the target, and then when they get there they either land on the target or they bounce off and don't land on the target. Activation happens here, but immunity happens there. Activation happens first, immunity happens later, only after the effect "reaches" the target.

It is a coincidence that most buffs in MCOC have the same source and target. Some buffs don't: Dr. Voodoo's Loas, for example, have a different target than the source. And in games with more than one attacker and one target, buffs can come from all over the place and land on targets other than the caster all the time. It is specifically here in MCOC, with only one attacker and only one defender, that the notion that Buffs don't have separate sources and targets gets blurry.

Buffs are not switches that get turned on or off. Buffs are arrows that get fired by a shooter and then land on the target. Usually the target is the shooter, but not always, and regardless the act of shooting and the act of landing on the target and affecting it (or not affecting it as the case may be) are two completely separate things. First you see if the shot is fired, and then you see if the shot lands. Activation, immunity.
Now, this makes Titania an interesting test case. She has no ability that triggers when she should trigger a buff (unlike red guardian, antman, Cassie, and s99). Currently she triggers incinerate vs Wiccan. But should she? This would make it seem like buff immunity (and immunity in general) is an ability that is subject to ability accuracy manipulation and not an innate feature of the champ.

My Titania got degened to hell this morning by Warlock due to dexing.

AverageDesi

Maybe the problem is a conceptual problem. We think of debuffs has having a source and a target. One champion throws the debuff, and it lands on another champion. It activates here, and it lands there.

But I think many people think of buffs differently. They don't have sources and destinations. They just are. They turn on, or the don't turn on, like a light switch. So how can a buff turn on, but not turn on?

Actually, buffs are effects just like debuffs. And all effects have a source and a destination. A source triggers them, then they fly to the target, and then when they get there they either land on the target or they bounce off and don't land on the target. Activation happens here, but immunity happens there. Activation happens first, immunity happens later, only after the effect "reaches" the target.

It is a coincidence that most buffs in MCOC have the same source and target. Some buffs don't: Dr. Voodoo's Loas, for example, have a different target than the source. And in games with more than one attacker and one target, buffs can come from all over the place and land on targets other than the caster all the time. It is specifically here in MCOC, with only one attacker and only one defender, that the notion that Buffs don't have separate sources and targets gets blurry.

Buffs are not switches that get turned on or off. Buffs are arrows that get fired by a shooter and then land on the target. Usually the target is the shooter, but not always, and regardless the act of shooting and the act of landing on the target and affecting it (or not affecting it as the case may be) are two completely separate things. First you see if the shot is fired, and then you see if the shot lands. Activation, immunity.
Now, this makes Titania an interesting test case. She has no ability that triggers when she should trigger a buff (unlike red guardian, antman, Cassie, and s99). Currently she triggers incinerate vs Wiccan. But should she? This would make it seem like buff immunity (and immunity in general) is an ability that is subject to ability accuracy manipulation and not an innate feature of the champ.
My Titania got degened to hell this morning by Warlock due to dexing.

What does warlock have to do with dexing

Ortoun

.

.. this makes Titania an interesting test case. She has no ability that triggers when she should trigger a buff (unlike red guardian, antman, Cassie, and s99). Currently she triggers incinerate vs Wiccan. But should she? This would make it seem like buff immunity (and immunity in general) is an ability that is subject to ability accuracy manipulation and not an innate feature of the champ.
You're almost there.

Buff immunity (or any immunity) is an ability.

When does an (immunity) ability get tested?
When an effect is being applied (a buff, debuff, passive, etc).
So the effect needs to be triggered, before an immunity is tested.

---

Let's compare Titania and Quicksilver. When Quicksilver and Titania dash back to avoid an attack, both avoid the attack and neither ends up with a Precision buff; but the mechanisms they use to make this happen are very different.

Titania's "Buff immunity" means that when she uses Dexterity, she checks for success (Domino or Photon can **** you up here!), And if she's successful, success triggers a buff*, and then the game engine tries to it to herself. Her immunity is tested at the point the game engine tries to apply the buff, and so it doesn't stick.

However, Neutralise means that at point * she fails to trigger the buff (and Wiccan causes her to get incinerated). From Wiccan's perspective, the fact the buff wouldn't have stuck to her because of her immunity is immaterial: she never gets as far as the word 'then'.

Compare this to Quicksilver. He's not immune to buffs, but his abilities remove the Dexterity Mastery.

When Quicksilver uses Dexterity he can't, so he uses his 'can't be struck whilst dashing back' ability instead. Since he never uses Dexterity, he never gets to point * and never tries to generate a Precision buff in the first place.

Because he never tries to generate a Precision buff in the first place, Wiccan never has any buff failure to punish.

I think the point they were trying to make is that it is at least somewhat fair in the other cases because they would get some other benefits from not getting the buff (pym particles, debuff pause, shield charged, whatever) but that Titania literally has no potential upside to make up for it. Which I kind of agree with, even if I understand why it doesn't work that way. They would have to change how she works to where buffs don't even attempt to trigger for her to make it so she wouldn't be affected by any of the neutralize downsides.

Wubbie075

Maybe the problem is a conceptual problem. We think of debuffs has having a source and a target. One champion throws the debuff, and it lands on another champion. It activates here, and it lands there.

But I think many people think of buffs differently. They don't have sources and destinations. They just are. They turn on, or the don't turn on, like a light switch. So how can a buff turn on, but not turn on?

Actually, buffs are effects just like debuffs. And all effects have a source and a destination. A source triggers them, then they fly to the target, and then when they get there they either land on the target or they bounce off and don't land on the target. Activation happens here, but immunity happens there. Activation happens first, immunity happens later, only after the effect "reaches" the target.

It is a coincidence that most buffs in MCOC have the same source and target. Some buffs don't: Dr. Voodoo's Loas, for example, have a different target than the source. And in games with more than one attacker and one target, buffs can come from all over the place and land on targets other than the caster all the time. It is specifically here in MCOC, with only one attacker and only one defender, that the notion that Buffs don't have separate sources and targets gets blurry.

Buffs are not switches that get turned on or off. Buffs are arrows that get fired by a shooter and then land on the target. Usually the target is the shooter, but not always, and regardless the act of shooting and the act of landing on the target and affecting it (or not affecting it as the case may be) are two completely separate things. First you see if the shot is fired, and then you see if the shot lands. Activation, immunity.
Now, this makes Titania an interesting test case. She has no ability that triggers when she should trigger a buff (unlike red guardian, antman, Cassie, and s99). Currently she triggers incinerate vs Wiccan. But should she? This would make it seem like buff immunity (and immunity in general) is an ability that is subject to ability accuracy manipulation and not an innate feature of the champ.
My Titania got degened to hell this morning by Warlock due to dexing.
What does warlock have to do with dexing

Absolutely nothing. I am a dope. Carry on lol.

I thought he degened us when a buff expired. Oops.

Maratox

Maybe the problem is a conceptual problem. We think of debuffs has having a source and a target. One champion throws the debuff, and it lands on another champion. It activates here, and it lands there.

But I think many people think of buffs differently. They don't have sources and destinations. They just are. They turn on, or the don't turn on, like a light switch. So how can a buff turn on, but not turn on?

Actually, buffs are effects just like debuffs. And all effects have a source and a destination. A source triggers them, then they fly to the target, and then when they get there they either land on the target or they bounce off and don't land on the target. Activation happens here, but immunity happens there. Activation happens first, immunity happens later, only after the effect "reaches" the target.

It is a coincidence that most buffs in MCOC have the same source and target. Some buffs don't: Dr. Voodoo's Loas, for example, have a different target than the source. And in games with more than one attacker and one target, buffs can come from all over the place and land on targets other than the caster all the time. It is specifically here in MCOC, with only one attacker and only one defender, that the notion that Buffs don't have separate sources and targets gets blurry.

Buffs are not switches that get turned on or off. Buffs are arrows that get fired by a shooter and then land on the target. Usually the target is the shooter, but not always, and regardless the act of shooting and the act of landing on the target and affecting it (or not affecting it as the case may be) are two completely separate things. First you see if the shot is fired, and then you see if the shot lands. Activation, immunity.
Now, this makes Titania an interesting test case. She has no ability that triggers when she should trigger a buff (unlike red guardian, antman, Cassie, and s99). Currently she triggers incinerate vs Wiccan. But should she? This would make it seem like buff immunity (and immunity in general) is an ability that is subject to ability accuracy manipulation and not an innate feature of the champ.
My Titania got degened to hell this morning by Warlock due to dexing.
What does warlock have to do with dexing
Absolutely nothing. I am a dope. Carry on lol.

I thought he degened us when a buff expired. Oops.

There is a character with that ability… your pfp might be able to answer that question

Wubbie075

Maybe the problem is a conceptual problem. We think of debuffs has having a source and a target. One champion throws the debuff, and it lands on another champion. It activates here, and it lands there.

But I think many people think of buffs differently. They don't have sources and destinations. They just are. They turn on, or the don't turn on, like a light switch. So how can a buff turn on, but not turn on?

Actually, buffs are effects just like debuffs. And all effects have a source and a destination. A source triggers them, then they fly to the target, and then when they get there they either land on the target or they bounce off and don't land on the target. Activation happens here, but immunity happens there. Activation happens first, immunity happens later, only after the effect "reaches" the target.

It is a coincidence that most buffs in MCOC have the same source and target. Some buffs don't: Dr. Voodoo's Loas, for example, have a different target than the source. And in games with more than one attacker and one target, buffs can come from all over the place and land on targets other than the caster all the time. It is specifically here in MCOC, with only one attacker and only one defender, that the notion that Buffs don't have separate sources and targets gets blurry.

Buffs are not switches that get turned on or off. Buffs are arrows that get fired by a shooter and then land on the target. Usually the target is the shooter, but not always, and regardless the act of shooting and the act of landing on the target and affecting it (or not affecting it as the case may be) are two completely separate things. First you see if the shot is fired, and then you see if the shot lands. Activation, immunity.
Now, this makes Titania an interesting test case. She has no ability that triggers when she should trigger a buff (unlike red guardian, antman, Cassie, and s99). Currently she triggers incinerate vs Wiccan. But should she? This would make it seem like buff immunity (and immunity in general) is an ability that is subject to ability accuracy manipulation and not an innate feature of the champ.
My Titania got degened to hell this morning by Warlock due to dexing.
What does warlock have to do with dexing
Absolutely nothing. I am a dope. Carry on lol.

I thought he degened us when a buff expired. Oops.
There is a character with that ability… your pfp might be able to answer that question

LOL yeah just a goof on my part.