Black Cat or Mantis to Rank 2?

Polygon

I was really excited to use Black Cat in necro based on the hype , but she’s not even good there.

She turns off a lot of abilities, but most of the time in BGs they won’t have abilities that fail (I heard when that is the case ,that she’s better to use the viscous over the sabotage for the higher bleed damage but I only run 1 point in Deep Wounds), or is this incorrect if you run the BW relic, that you should always go for the sabotage mode?

Mantis is an insane nuke , maybe even sunspot level, and she can be a dual threat.

I think she has more matchups in BGs she’ll shine in than Black Cat does?

Polygon

Please leave a comment as well if you can

DrZola

Honestly that’s 50-50 for me. Not even going to vote. Probably best for your personal play style and preference.

Dr. Zola

ThePredator1001

Mantis

Mantis needs the R2 more, she relys on her sp2 killing in one go, if that doesn’t work then her time in Bg will increase significantly. Plus she’s useable as a defender.

Black cat might be the better attacker and handles some tricky match ups, but I think mantis needs the rank more since she can’t punch up very well

Polygon

ThePredator1001 said:

Mantis needs the R2 more, she relys on her sp2 killing in one go, if that doesn’t work then her time in Bg will increase significantly. Plus she’s useable as a defender.

Black cat might be the better attacker and handles some tricky match ups, but I think mantis needs the rank more since she can’t punch up very well

You have an excellent point on Mantis.

Do you think Black Cat covers more fights in BGs? I feel like there isn’t that many defenders who have abilities that can fail besides the obvious ones (Rintrah/Fury/Hulkling/Thing/Spot, evade champs). The black widow relic might still make her fast and a good option to even those that dont have abilities that can fail

captain_rogers

Black Cat

Korg thing nick fury hulkling rintrah spot and a lot of other evergreen defenders in bg can be cheesed with black cat alone.
Also your another question, yes with black widow relic, you should go with sabtoge at 40+ combo, and you can deal a good amount of damage while the relic effect is up.
Mantis is good but black cat is amazing in most bg matchups.

Pikolu

Black Cat

Just rank whichever one you prefer, both are BG monsters.

ThePredator1001

Mantis

Polygon said:

ThePredator1001 said:

Mantis needs the R2 more, she relys on her sp2 killing in one go, if that doesn’t work then her time in Bg will increase significantly. Plus she’s useable as a defender.

Black cat might be the better attacker and handles some tricky match ups, but I think mantis needs the rank more since she can’t punch up very well

You have an excellent point on Mantis.

Do you think Black Cat covers more fights in BGs? I feel like there isn’t that many defenders who have abilities that can fail besides the obvious ones (Rintrah/Fury/Hulkling/Thing/Spot, evade champs). The black widow relic might still make her fast and a good option to even those that dont have abilities that can fail

I don’t think she covers more fights, it’s just that she covers some of the most common and tricky defenders. The ones you mentioned are some of the BG staples that you will frequently encounter.

Milan1405

Both, just choose your favourite one to go up first.

Polygon

Does Black Cat counter Photon? Ally member mentioned Mantis does

Pikolu

Black Cat

Polygon said:

Does Black Cat counter Photon? Ally member mentioned Mantis does

Depends if photon is duped or not. Duped photon, definitely, unduped photon, not really. The duped photon has an ability that can fail every light attack you do and a heavy that you can easily heavy counter.

I managed to pull this off in the hazard shift meta last month.

Polygon

Pikolu said:

Polygon said:

Does Black Cat counter Photon? Ally member mentioned Mantis does

Depends if photon is duped or not. Duped photon, definitely, unduped photon, not really. The duped photon has an ability that can fail every light attack you do and a heavy that you can easily heavy counter.

I managed to pull this off in the hazard shift meta last month.

Thanks, and so you always pass the card via heavies to build up the cruelties? Or not really needed. Also how many points in DW do you run?

captain_rogers

Black Cat

Polygon said:

Pikolu said:

Polygon said:

Does Black Cat counter Photon? Ally member mentioned Mantis does

Depends if photon is duped or not. Duped photon, definitely, unduped photon, not really. The duped photon has an ability that can fail every light attack you do and a heavy that you can easily heavy counter.

I managed to pull this off in the hazard shift meta last month.

Thanks, and so you always pass the card via heavies to build up the cruelties? Or not really needed. Also how many points in DW do you run?

Cruelty is fine, but dw is not needed for bgs, as most of your damage comes from sabatoge only.
Also don't focus much on heavy countering in bgs and tryna play safe, just push to sp2 asap with calling card on you, and the ones she typically counters are already done.

Polygon

captain_rogers said:

Polygon said:

Pikolu said:

Polygon said:

Does Black Cat counter Photon? Ally member mentioned Mantis does

Depends if photon is duped or not. Duped photon, definitely, unduped photon, not really. The duped photon has an ability that can fail every light attack you do and a heavy that you can easily heavy counter.

I managed to pull this off in the hazard shift meta last month.

Thanks, and so you always pass the card via heavies to build up the cruelties? Or not really needed. Also how many points in DW do you run?

Cruelty is fine, but dw is not needed for bgs, as most of your damage comes from sabatoge only.
Also don't focus much on heavy countering in bgs and tryna play safe, just push to sp2 asap with calling card on you, and the ones she typically counters are already done.

Thats what I was doing but there was a lot of champs i faced where their kit didnt have abilities that fail, thats the only reason I brought up deep wounds or the crit passives.

I saw you mention you draft her in BGs anytime she’s available, can you make a list of all champs you use her against there so I can be able to make more use of her and hopefully that convinces me to take her to R2? Anyone else besides Korg thing nick fury hulkling rintrah spot?

Also not sure if I’d use her against Korg if i had other champs like juggs/CGR/ absorbing man or even storm px available

captain_rogers

Black Cat

Polygon said:

captain_rogers said:

Polygon said:

Pikolu said:

Polygon said:

Does Black Cat counter Photon? Ally member mentioned Mantis does

Depends if photon is duped or not. Duped photon, definitely, unduped photon, not really. The duped photon has an ability that can fail every light attack you do and a heavy that you can easily heavy counter.

I managed to pull this off in the hazard shift meta last month.

Thanks, and so you always pass the card via heavies to build up the cruelties? Or not really needed. Also how many points in DW do you run?

Cruelty is fine, but dw is not needed for bgs, as most of your damage comes from sabatoge only.
Also don't focus much on heavy countering in bgs and tryna play safe, just push to sp2 asap with calling card on you, and the ones she typically counters are already done.

Thats what I was doing but there was a lot of champs i faced where their kit didnt have abilities that fail, thats the only reason I brought up deep wounds or the crit passives.

I saw you mention you draft her in BGs anytime she’s available, can you make a list of all champs you use her against there so I can be able to make more use of her and hopefully that convinces me to take her to R2? Anyone else besides Korg thing nick fury hulkling rintrah spot?

Also not sure if I’d use her against Korg if i had other champs like juggs/CGR/ absorbing man or even storm px available

She works against killmonger and omega sentinel too, in theory, but never used against them personally.
Actually the defenders you mention are among the most annoying in bgs, and it makes your life easier by cheesing them (especially couldn't imagine fighting rintrah without her).
Regarding korg, she is not the optimal counter, but if you are good with light intercepting (I assume you are cuz you mentioned using absorbing man), you can kill him under a minute. Who else against bishop and namor can do it? And my bishop always goes for defense and I have no one else to counter korg.
The reason i select her for bgs is cuz she handles most of the annoying ones so I could focus on drafting more annoying defenders/meta attackers.

Pikolu

Black Cat

Polygon said:

Pikolu said:

Polygon said:

Does Black Cat counter Photon? Ally member mentioned Mantis does

Depends if photon is duped or not. Duped photon, definitely, unduped photon, not really. The duped photon has an ability that can fail every light attack you do and a heavy that you can easily heavy counter.

I managed to pull this off in the hazard shift meta last month.

Thanks, and so you always pass the card via heavies to build up the cruelties? Or not really needed. Also how many points in DW do you run?

Depends on the fight for passing the card. In the hazard shift meta it was required to get my combo to 40 ASAP, then sabotage to turn the node completely off.

I'm honestly surprised how much people worship the sabotage damage, most of her damage actually comes from crit bleeds on the sp2, and I only sabotage when they're bleed immune or have an ability I need to fail. Against NF it doesn't matter what you do unless you can kill his first life before the sp2.

I also run 5/5 DW

Polygon

Pikolu said:

Polygon said:

Pikolu said:

Polygon said:

Does Black Cat counter Photon? Ally member mentioned Mantis does

Depends if photon is duped or not. Duped photon, definitely, unduped photon, not really. The duped photon has an ability that can fail every light attack you do and a heavy that you can easily heavy counter.

I managed to pull this off in the hazard shift meta last month.

Thanks, and so you always pass the card via heavies to build up the cruelties? Or not really needed. Also how many points in DW do you run?

Depends on the fight for passing the card. In the hazard shift meta it was required to get my combo to 40 ASAP, then sabotage to turn the node completely off.

I'm honestly surprised how much people worship the sabotage damage, most of her damage actually comes from crit bleeds on the sp2, and I only sabotage when they're bleed immune or have an ability I need to fail. Against NF it doesn't matter what you do unless you can kill his first life before the sp2.

I also run 5/5 DW

Thats 1 of the reasons I’m hesitant to rank 2 her, because against those matchups where they wont have abilities that fail, and id be using the viscous instead of sabotage, that id only have 1 in DW and therefore not even get the most out of her.

Also, the BW relic can still make the sabotage mode useful even against those champs without failing abilities, so not sure if its better to use the viscous there