Removing units in Arena

Vote to see how the community feels about removing units in arena and moving those units to another game mode. Help kabam understand how the community would feel about major changes to arena.

Comments

Charlie21540

Ok... but where would you move them to?

Noob_Master69

Added context:
Kabam Jon was on stream earlier today and they got to talking about units in arena. According to Jon the reason TB EQ doesn not have any units is because a majority of the "Unit Budget" is being put into Arena and that he has been thinking about potentially shifting those units from arena and putting them elsewhere

In no way is this an official announcement from Kabam, just a designer spitballing some ideas that are far from implemented or finalized. The reason this isn't being done is because they think people will not like the idea and there will be backlash

Chuck_Finley

This has all sorts of unintended consequences embedded in it. I don’t think we would like any of them

Blarguarded

@Charlie21540 they said in there live stream today that the reason higher difficulty EQs don't have units is due to arena hogging all the unit budget.
So they could add units anywhere. Add to objectives, side quests, and EQ. Lots of content in the game that doesn't have units that it could be added too.

Nosrep

I’d rather other areas of the game gave more units (EQ, story, etc…).

Wicket329

This has all sorts of unintended consequences embedded in it. I don’t think we would like any of them

I agree with this in a big way. Arena is also like a steady drip feed of units from milestones (plus arena crystals), whereas putting the units anywhere else (like EQ) would result in bang/bust cycles. Not sure that’s good for the game.

Chuck_Finley

Added context:
Kabam Jon was on stream earlier today and they got to talking about units in arena. According to Jon the reason TB EQ doesn not have any units is because a majority of the "Unit Budget" is being put into Arena and that he has been thinking about potentially shifting those units from arena and putting them elsewhere

In no way is this an official announcement from Kabam, just a designer spitballing some ideas that are far from implemented or finalized. The reason this isn't being done is because they think people will not like the idea and there will be backlash

Terrible idea.

1) just kill off the arenas then of 99% of the player base. Most of us don’t have the roster to grind for anything meaningful.

2) You get stuck in a quest or some other hard piece of content, run out of units… now what? You can’t go start another quest full of units. You can at least grind arenas if you get stuck.

3) that this discussion came up furthers my concern that kabam is planning to devalue units from buying power and making them almost exclusively revives. Unit purchasers/grinders were given crumbs in CW and upcoming banquet compared to what cash offers were 6 months ago.

You think these muted events are just “rebalancing” after the July 4th fiasco? Don’t count on it. Guppy spenders with lots of units are getting knocked further down the ladder.

Cvlr

They would remove them even from bc crystal or only from the milestones?
I'm not sure about this change, it really depends on which part of the game the units will be moved on.

Sure I'd like to get more units from game content that I play normally, grind arena for unit became boring.

However, we actually need arena when we stucking in a mission.. (four days of arena grinding for me to take down necropolis GM lmao)

ReignkingTW

Added context:
Kabam Jon was on stream earlier today and they got to talking about units in arena. According to Jon the reason TB EQ doesn not have any units is because a majority of the "Unit Budget" is being put into Arena and that he has been thinking about potentially shifting those units from arena and putting them elsewhere

In no way is this an official announcement from Kabam, just a designer spitballing some ideas that are far from implemented or finalized. The reason this isn't being done is because they think people will not like the idea and there will be backlash

Thank you. Seemed like a random question.

Fit_Fun9329

Some men want to see the world burn

Edit: I thought about it and yes - all units in the 4* arena upwards 1,5 mio can be moved to e.g EQ. Keep them the same or increase in the 6* ones

Vanitelia

@Cvlr It would be just the milestones. Units from BC's would be untouched. I'd like to see them moved elsewhere. I only do enough Arena to get the milestones. Grinding isn't something I enjoy doing and a lot of people don't even touch arena because of the monotony.

A_Fungi

I voted before reading the context

I think it would be okay to take the milestones out and put them in Cav/TB EQ

I dont want them in objectives or SQ though. Any units here should be a "bonus"

They also should not touch the BC crystals, that is the solution to getting units while stuck in a quest, just pray to the RNG gods

I actually think this would be a pro player move since more people do EQ than arenas, far less grindy

However, I do think they would need to add something else to the milestones, rather that be more shards, higher end shards, throw a revive in the last milestone?

DNA3000

that this discussion came up furthers my concern that kabam is planning to devalue units from buying power and making them almost exclusively revives. Unit purchasers/grinders were given crumbs in CW and upcoming banquet compared to what cash offers were 6 months ago.

The discussion surrounding the unit economy comes up almost continuously, at least in conversations with the devs. When the arenas underwent their last major revamp (when the arenas were consolidated into their current form) this was a major point of discussion - how much units should the new arenas contain, and in what form. But the question of unit balance goes even farther back than that. It may even predate Crashed himself joining the team.

As to the question of whether Kabam intends to "devalue" units, personally I have no idea why anyone would think that, as there's no evidence for that whatsoever. If someone thinks that "unit purchasers and grinders" were given "crumbs" in the Cyber sales that's their prerogative, but extrapolating from that very obvious subjective opinion to the future direction of the game is something that if people want to worry about, they are welcome to that particular anxiety.

If this one question in one live stream is the kind of thing that worries you, you should have been worrying about this for a very long time. To be candid, the unit economy is much more likely to remain stable today than it has been in the last five or six years.

Chuck_Finley

that this discussion came up furthers my concern that kabam is planning to devalue units from buying power and making them almost exclusively revives. Unit purchasers/grinders were given crumbs in CW and upcoming banquet compared to what cash offers were 6 months ago.

If this one question in one live stream is the kind of thing that worries you, you should have been worrying about this for a very long time. To be candid, the unit economy is much more likely to remain stable today than it has been in the last five or six years.

It’s not just this livestream… I have been mulling it over for a while and even mentioned it early on in the mammoth banquet pinned thread.

Other factors include the aggressive nature in reducing and eliminating revive farming. Publicly stating units should be used for revives, etc.

Maybe I am wrong. And I’ll admit I am in the guppy with milestone grinding category, so this stuff is at the forefront of my mind. And as I have stated before - there is no event that I am aware of that benefited mass unit spend like the gifting/banquet. Not this year. If you have any sort of paragon account, you are throwing units away chasing rank rewards and upper milestones….. unless there is going to be less opportunities to use your units in meaningful ways going forward. Kabam’s response revolves around “you just want R3 materials” which is objectively not true… and many lesser reward scenarios are addressed in the pinned thread.

So it’s my concern. Valid? Maybe not. I hope it’s not valid. But we are staring at the most outdated unit event of the year in just a few days. You might have to forgive me if my skepticism is a little acute at the moment.

Standardman1989

Sorry You are crazy 😂

ahmynuts

that this discussion came up furthers my concern that kabam is planning to devalue units from buying power and making them almost exclusively revives. Unit purchasers/grinders were given crumbs in CW and upcoming banquet compared to what cash offers were 6 months ago.
The discussion surrounding the unit economy comes up almost continuously, at least in conversations with the devs. When the arenas underwent their last major revamp (when the arenas were consolidated into their current form) this was a major point of discussion - how much units should the new arenas contain, and in what form. But the question of unit balance goes even farther back than that. It may even predate Crashed himself joining the team.

As to the question of whether Kabam intends to "devalue" units, personally I have no idea why anyone would think that, as there's no evidence for that whatsoever. If someone thinks that "unit purchasers and grinders" were given "crumbs" in the Cyber sales that's their prerogative, but extrapolating from that very obvious subjective opinion to the future direction of the game is something that if people want to worry about, they are welcome to that particular anxiety.

If this one question in one live stream is the kind of thing that worries you, you should have been worrying about this for a very long time. To be candid, the unit economy is much more likely to remain stable today than it has been in the last five or six years.

I think they're using the word devalue when they mean something else. I don't know what that word would be though. Similar to what crashed was saying on stream, in my own words, they're tilting the scales of earnable resources back to content (for now but like why would they ever go back to making sales the places for the best of the best after switching us back to content. They can still make money with sales that stay around the same level) so the unit value is now shifting from saving for sales with the best rewards like we have been for years to saving for content with the best rewards.

It's a shift in the scale that I think can be seen as a devaluation of units (only in the realm of actual purchasing power in regards to sales) If you weren't playing the game way back when content and giving rewards through it was their #1 priority then i can understand how a sudden shift back to that could be seen as absolute bs by some. It just seems like they're moving the slider back towards content after having it at a 85/15 split between sales and content for years at this point

DNA3000

that this discussion came up furthers my concern that kabam is planning to devalue units from buying power and making them almost exclusively revives. Unit purchasers/grinders were given crumbs in CW and upcoming banquet compared to what cash offers were 6 months ago.

If this one question in one live stream is the kind of thing that worries you, you should have been worrying about this for a very long time. To be candid, the unit economy is much more likely to remain stable today than it has been in the last five or six years.
It’s not just this livestream… I have been mulling it over for a while and even mentioned it early on in the mammoth banquet pinned thread.

Other factors include the aggressive nature in reducing and eliminating revive farming. Publicly stating units should be used for revives, etc.

Maybe I am wrong. And I’ll admit I am in the guppy with milestone grinding category, so this stuff is at the forefront of my mind. And as I have stated before - there is no event that I am aware of that benefited mass unit spend like the gifting/banquet. Not this year. If you have any sort of paragon account, you are throwing units away chasing rank rewards and upper milestones….. unless there is going to be less opportunities to use your units in meaningful ways going forward. Kabam’s response revolves around “you just want R3 materials” which is objectively not true… and many lesser reward scenarios are addressed in the pinned thread.

So it’s my concern. Valid? Maybe not. I hope it’s not valid. But we are staring at the most outdated unit event of the year in just a few days. You might have to forgive me if my skepticism is a little acute at the moment.

If you're not Paragon or Valiant, those concerns are completely unwarranted. CW and the Banquet are still the best deals around. If Kabam was devaluing units, you'd see evidence of that globally, which you don't.

If you are Paragon, the problem is that both CW and Banquet have to compete with Necropolis, which means not only are both going to look lower by comparison, there was less room to boost either because Necropolis was sitting above them. And this is not just an R3 thing. People are saying even if they excluded R3 materials they could have still put lots of other stuff in there below R3. But that's not true: the point was not just to make Necropolis the exclusive spot for R3 (which it wasn't, but let's set that aside for now) it was to make the opportunity cost decision slant heavily towards Necropolis. You could put R5 materials in those two events and not infringe on Necropolis being the primary R3 source, but you would still cut into the preeminence of Necropolis as the best place to spend resources to get ahead.

This gets into judgment calls. There's a lot of stuff you can put into CW and the Banquet for Paragons that would make both be better, but not R3. So how much would prevent it from making the choice between spending on those two things or Necropolis too blurry or overlapping? There isn't any safe amount. It isn't a question of this much is okay and this much is too much. Anything you put in either moves them closer to Necropolis in value. How close is too close? That's a judgment call. The devs chose to be conservative. A lot of players would choose to be a lot more aggressive. But none of them are betting the existence of a game and the employment of their peers on that choice.

And if you're Valiant, you're one of the very few, and the devs simply have no intent of letting Valiants push too much farther ahead of the Paragons until more Paragons have the opportunity to join them. What are the Valiants going to do? Quit, because they didn't get a mega reward boost for becoming Valiant? That's not going to happen. The only players who are Valiant today are die-hards. They aren't going anywhere. Valiants might want more - don't we all - but they don't need more.

Incidentally, reducing revive farming should not be evidence that the unit economy is going to be devalued. It should be the opposite. If the unit economy gets devalued, then the only thing that will definitely hold value is buying revives, because revives can always be translated into content completion. But devaluing units or removing opportunities to spend units completely contradicts the whole point of eliminating wholesale revive farming. The point of reducing revive farming is to not make it easy to spend gigantic amounts of revives completing content, so the devs have more flexibility in designing the rewards for completing content. They can't shift more rewards into content completion if everyone can just spam five hundred revives to get them at any difficulty.

But if the devs remove all other meaningful options to spend units, they will in effect be giving us no choice but to burn our units on revives as the best available option. Which would mean we would all be going back to spending hundreds of revives face rolling through content, because why not?

Curtailing revive farming only makes sense if there is always many good options to spend units, and revives are just one of them, so players have to make a choice.

TribalChief

Yes Kabam pls remove units from arena and transfer them in something which will be unachievable.

550 units in arena is game breaking do it kabam
By removing them player gonna spend more.
After revive nerf kabam pls unit also gamebreaking pls nerf them.
Thanks to Community for these Amazing ideas.

Odachi

The one thing that was obvious was they devalued units over the last 6 months. Jax described it at "easier freeer stuff".
I would definitely disagree that buying items with units is either of those things. Patience and time to sit and grind area isn't easy to keep going again and again and again day after day. And well.. you can buy units for cash so "freeer" isn't really true either.

Chuck_Finley

that this discussion came up furthers my concern that kabam is planning to devalue units from buying power and making them almost exclusively revives. Unit purchasers/grinders were given crumbs in CW and upcoming banquet compared to what cash offers were 6 months ago.

If this one question in one live stream is the kind of thing that worries you, you should have been worrying about this for a very long time. To be candid, the unit economy is much more likely to remain stable today than it has been in the last five or six years.
It’s not just this livestream… I have been mulling it over for a while and even mentioned it early on in the mammoth banquet pinned thread.

Other factors include the aggressive nature in reducing and eliminating revive farming. Publicly stating units should be used for revives, etc.

Maybe I am wrong. And I’ll admit I am in the guppy with milestone grinding category, so this stuff is at the forefront of my mind. And as I have stated before - there is no event that I am aware of that benefited mass unit spend like the gifting/banquet. Not this year. If you have any sort of paragon account, you are throwing units away chasing rank rewards and upper milestones….. unless there is going to be less opportunities to use your units in meaningful ways going forward. Kabam’s response revolves around “you just want R3 materials” which is objectively not true… and many lesser reward scenarios are addressed in the pinned thread.

So it’s my concern. Valid? Maybe not. I hope it’s not valid. But we are staring at the most outdated unit event of the year in just a few days. You might have to forgive me if my skepticism is a little acute at the moment.
This gets into judgment calls. There's a lot of stuff you can put into CW and the Banquet for Paragons that would make both be better, but not R3. So how much would prevent it from making the choice between spending on those two things or Necropolis too blurry or overlapping? There isn't any safe amount. It isn't a question of this much is okay and this much is too much. Anything you put in either moves them closer to Necropolis in value. How close is too close? That's a judgment call. The devs chose to be conservative. A lot of players would choose to be a lot more aggressive. But none of them are betting the existence of a game and the employment of their peers on that choice.
.

It’s not a judgment call. Basically it’s the July 4th folks continue to beyond OP - they are real fun in battlegrounds. Any initial clear of Necropolis doesn’t change that. Exploring necropolis? That seems like something made for the ultra skilled and/OR the right roster that is present. R4 Shuri ramp isn’t the same as an R2 Shuri with rage timers is it? Welp, too bad for us… no banquet to help with that.

The “judgment call” whether intentional or incidental took out the best unit event to grow our rosters FOR necropolis. Unless of course you whale out. Unit purchasers and grinders are still dusted… because apparently R5 and R2 stuff for us would just be too damaging to the game. It’s ok elsewhere though. Got it.

DNA3000

that this discussion came up furthers my concern that kabam is planning to devalue units from buying power and making them almost exclusively revives. Unit purchasers/grinders were given crumbs in CW and upcoming banquet compared to what cash offers were 6 months ago.

If this one question in one live stream is the kind of thing that worries you, you should have been worrying about this for a very long time. To be candid, the unit economy is much more likely to remain stable today than it has been in the last five or six years.
It’s not just this livestream… I have been mulling it over for a while and even mentioned it early on in the mammoth banquet pinned thread.

Other factors include the aggressive nature in reducing and eliminating revive farming. Publicly stating units should be used for revives, etc.

Maybe I am wrong. And I’ll admit I am in the guppy with milestone grinding category, so this stuff is at the forefront of my mind. And as I have stated before - there is no event that I am aware of that benefited mass unit spend like the gifting/banquet. Not this year. If you have any sort of paragon account, you are throwing units away chasing rank rewards and upper milestones….. unless there is going to be less opportunities to use your units in meaningful ways going forward. Kabam’s response revolves around “you just want R3 materials” which is objectively not true… and many lesser reward scenarios are addressed in the pinned thread.

So it’s my concern. Valid? Maybe not. I hope it’s not valid. But we are staring at the most outdated unit event of the year in just a few days. You might have to forgive me if my skepticism is a little acute at the moment.
This gets into judgment calls. There's a lot of stuff you can put into CW and the Banquet for Paragons that would make both be better, but not R3. So how much would prevent it from making the choice between spending on those two things or Necropolis too blurry or overlapping? There isn't any safe amount. It isn't a question of this much is okay and this much is too much. Anything you put in either moves them closer to Necropolis in value. How close is too close? That's a judgment call. The devs chose to be conservative. A lot of players would choose to be a lot more aggressive. But none of them are betting the existence of a game and the employment of their peers on that choice.
.
It’s not a judgment call. Basically it’s the July 4th folks continue to beyond OP - they are real fun in battlegrounds. Any initial clear of Necropolis doesn’t change that. Exploring necropolis? That seems like something made for the ultra skilled and/OR the right roster that is present. R4 Shuri ramp isn’t the same as an R2 Shuri with rage timers is it? Welp, too bad for us… no banquet to help with that.

The “judgment call” whether intentional or incidental took out the best unit event to grow our rosters FOR necropolis. Unless of course you whale out. Unit purchasers and grinders are still dusted… because apparently R5 and R2 stuff for us would just be too damaging to the game. It’s ok elsewhere though. Got it.

I don't feel remotely the same way. So if this is not a question of judgment, one of us must be completely wrong. If you're asking me to bet, I would have to bet it is not me.

Zeke_the_Xbot

Vote to see how the community feels about removing units in arena and moving those units to another game mode. Help kabam understand how the community would feel about major changes to arena.

Options are too limited.
Arenas need to be updated but we shouldn’t lose units because of this. I can already see them going to Battlegrounds. Also if you remove units what takes their place as an arena reward?

Theruneking

Ok... but where would you move them to?

Behind paywall.

Kabam Miike

Adding a little more context here, this was a thought that one of our team members had, and he made it clear that it was his opinion only, and not necessarily the opinion of the whole team. We have no plans to remove units from the Arenas at this time.

His thinking here is that we could spread those Units to more places where people play often. Some players love Arenas, some players don't. But that's the same case for every other aspect of the game, so that's also something to take into account.

Buttehrs

Adding a little more context here, this was a thought that one of our team members had, and he made it clear that it was his opinion only, and not necessarily the opinion of the whole team. We have no plans to remove units from the Arenas at this time.

His thinking here is that we could spread those Units to more places where people play often. Some players love Arenas, some players don't. But that's the same case for every other aspect of the game, so that's also something to take into account.

I wouldnt even be mad if they were removed from milestones (except special arenas like platpool or anniversary etc) and spread everywhere else like TB eq, certain ranks in BGs etc. But not removed from arena crystals since those are still RNG.

Gamer

Adding a little more context here, this was a thought that one of our team members had, and he made it clear that it was his opinion only, and not necessarily the opinion of the whole team. We have no plans to remove units from the Arenas at this time.

His thinking here is that we could spread those Units to more places where people play often. Some players love Arenas, some players don't. But that's the same case for every other aspect of the game, so that's also something to take into account.

All good

startropics

spreading it around will likely take control away from players and if they sneak them into tougher-to-reach areas of the game, it will end up costing you more to get them.

if they're added to EQ, you might not have the refills or the time to be able to get them (are you going to 100% all difficulties?), if they're added to BGs, you will have to play BGs...

don't ask for this lol. keep them in arena cause you know where to get them and they're not limited by time and other resources as much as other game modes.

ahmynuts

spreading it around will likely take control away from players and if they sneak them into tougher-to-reach areas of the game, it will end up costing you more to get them.

if they're added to EQ, you might not have the refills or the time to be able to get them (are you going to 100% all difficulties?), if they're added to BGs, you will have to play BGs...

don't ask for this lol. keep them in arena cause you know where to get them and they're not limited by time and other resources as much as other game modes.

Technically you could say they're limited by the gold you have to pay to run an arena match

Zeke_the_Xbot

spreading it around will likely take control away from players and if they sneak them into tougher-to-reach areas of the game, it will end up costing you more to get them.

if they're added to EQ, you might not have the refills or the time to be able to get them (are you going to 100% all difficulties?), if they're added to BGs, you will have to play BGs...

don't ask for this lol. keep them in arena cause you know where to get them and they're not limited by time and other resources as much as other game modes.
Technically you could say they're limited by the gold you have to pay to run an arena match

Not really only if you are newer to the game and can’t play many matches or do upgrades beyond your resources and become gold broke

DNA3000

spreading it around will likely take control away from players and if they sneak them into tougher-to-reach areas of the game, it will end up costing you more to get them.

if they're added to EQ, you might not have the refills or the time to be able to get them (are you going to 100% all difficulties?), if they're added to BGs, you will have to play BGs...

don't ask for this lol. keep them in arena cause you know where to get them and they're not limited by time and other resources as much as other game modes.
Technically you could say they're limited by the gold you have to pay to run an arena match

Most arenas, and in particular the ones with unit milestones, are gold-positive activities. You earn more gold running them than you spend doing them. That's why arena has consistently been considered one of the better sources of gold in the game.