Does spider ham pork popper not count as a damaging effect?

AIRxJ0RDANx23x

I completed a bg match with the polkadot power node and spider ham was unable to gain any power. Since the node says damaging effect and not damage over time I assumed spider ham would be able to gain power.

AverageDesi

Nope. It doesn't deal any damage in itself

DNA3000

Power stings are not considered damaging effects because they do not deal damage on their own. They trigger damage when they expire, but the power sting effect itself deals no damage.

There's an analogy to another common question regarding damaging effects that comes up from time to time: Void's intimidating presence debuffs. Void deals damage when those debuffs exist, but the debuffs themselves do not deal damage. Rather, Void has a passive ability that deals damage whenever the target has (unique) debuffs. While the debuffs "cause" the damage, they are not the "source" of the damage.

The power sting effect is not the source of the damage they deal. So the power sting effect does not deal damage, and thus it is not a damaging effect. The damage is done when the effect is gone.

AIRxJ0RDANx23x

This sounds like a damaging effect to me. Can someone give me an example of a damaging effect that is not damage over time?

50% chance to place a Porker Popper on the Opponent for 9 second(s), dealing 2702.4 Direct Damage when they activate a Special Attack.

I understand that power sting is not be intended to allow you to gain power, but I do think the node should be updated to specifically say damage over time effect. The way it reads now is any debuff that deals damage to the defender should allow you to gain power.

ahmynuts

AIRxJ0RDANx23x said:

This sounds like a damaging effect to me.

Good thing you don't get to choose what a damaging effect is then

AIRxJ0RDANx23x

ahmynuts said:

AIRxJ0RDANx23x said:

This sounds like a damaging effect to me.

Good thing you don't get to choose what a damaging effect is then

My point still stands that the node should still specify damage over time effects like other nodes do.

DNA3000

AIRxJ0RDANx23x said:

This sounds like a damaging effect to me. Can someone give me an example of a damaging effect that is not damage over time?

50% chance to place a Porker Popper on the Opponent for 9 second(s), dealing 2702.4 Direct Damage when they activate a Special Attack.

I understand that power sting is not be intended to allow you to gain power, but I do think the node should be updated to specifically say damage over time effect. The way it reads now is any debuff that deals damage to the defender should allow you to gain power.

This gets into semantic games territory. Both the terms "damage over time effect" and "damaging effect" are colloquialisms. There's no such thing in most games I've played and studied, and I would guess there's no such thing explicitly in the MCOC game engine either, just things we make that look like that. We players call things damage over time effects when there is an effect that causes damage throughout its duration. So is it possible to make a damaging effect that does not *appear* to be a damage over time effect to the players? Sure. If I create an effect that deals physical damage every ten seconds and make it last only eight seconds, that would unambiguously be a damaging effect, but it would not appear to be a damage over time effect.

I believe this came up with Nightcrawler's "instant bleed" a long time ago. NC's instant bleed was originally (and I presume still is) a bleed damaging effect, but it was made to have a duration short enough that it only dealt one tick of damage. It doesn't look like DoT, but it is a damaging effect. We know this because players discovered the "instant" bleed interacted with deep wounds, causing the "instant" bleed to have a longer duration and start ticking for tremendous damage. This was I believe addressed by making NC's instant bleed immune to duration boosting effects.

But if you do not actually see the game internals, there is no way for a player to tell the difference between a damage over time effect that only lasts one tick and a damage tick that is not due to a (short duration) damaging effect, except by looking at the way such a damage tick interacts with other effects, like effects that affect damaging effects.

Meanwhile, power stings literally do not deal damage during their effect. Instead, damage is triggered upon the use of a special which removes the effect and deals damage. As I said, effects that *cause* damage but do not *deal* damage are not damaging effects as the game defines them. Even though it sounds to you like power sting deals damage, it does not. You need to distinguish when effects deal damage and when they are the cause of damage but don't deal it, to understand the distinction here.

I'm explaining to you how the game defines its own terms, and how the game mechanics work, at least to the best of my knowledge. If you choose to interpret the game's language differently than the game does that is your prerogative, but the game is not going to change to adapt to your thinking. You'll just fail to understand the game's descriptions of things to your own detriment.

World Eater

He doesn’t gain any power but his strings still work so he’s still usable.