Here’s a R5 Dani vs R5 onslaught. I managed to get a faster time with Dani, does that mean onslaught needs tuning up?
Damage comparisons in RoL are probably the last place you should look for evidence of a need for rebalancing
No, it means Dani needs tuning up, especially since to get that time your Dani crit on her sp2. Her crit chance is 18% so that’s 1 out of 5 matchups where it crits.
And I got this time without the crit on the last hit of the special. So 58 seconds is the cut off between being ok, but any more and they need a tune up?
And besides, using an insane damage champion like Onslaught as the bench mark? Why not go ahead and compare her utility to Hercules and say she sucks based on that too.
Both 2023 mutants, she should have had the damage, not him. He has the utility. The way I see it is that he offers much more but doesn’t have that much damage offensively and she is the offensive neuroshock powerhouse with much less utility.
How am I wrong?
Because that has not, and never will be the way the game works.
You don’t make one decision on a champ and only ever use them. Someone might not have onslaught, someone might want to use a mutant against Nick or Zemo (both of whom Dani is arguably better than Onslaught for).
Dani has utility Onslaught doesn’t, a very strong passive slow to deal with unstoppable and evade. Onslaught doesn’t deal with those. Dani heal blocks skill champs while neuro shocked, Onslaught doesn’t. Dani has a different form of damage than onslaught via special hits, occasionally useful. She has comparable damage to him for BGs.
I don’t think Dani is a better champ than onslaught. She doesn’t need to be. But damn some people on this forums are determined to prove (via RoL screenshots?) that Dani is the worst champ and it’s an insult she was ever dreamt up.
Some of you need to really just stop letting a champ design live rent free in your head. Dani isn’t meant to be a class defining champ like onslaught, and that’s fine. Use her for what she’s good for. Hell man, you’re taking 500k HP in a minute.
Here’s a R5 Dani vs R5 onslaught. I managed to get a faster time with Dani, does that mean onslaught needs tuning up?
Damage comparisons in RoL are probably the last place you should look for evidence of a need for rebalancing
No, it means Dani needs tuning up, especially since to get that time your Dani crit on her sp2. Her crit chance is 18% so that’s 1 out of 5 matchups where it crits.
And I got this time without the crit on the last hit of the special. So 58 seconds is the cut off between being ok, but any more and they need a tune up?
And besides, using an insane damage champion like Onslaught as the bench mark? Why not go ahead and compare her utility to Hercules and say she sucks based on that too.
Both 2023 mutants, she should have had the damage, not him. He has the utility. The way I see it is that he offers much more but doesn’t have that much damage offensively and she is the offensive neuroshock powerhouse with much less utility.
How am I wrong?
Because that has not, and never will be the way the game works.
You don’t make one decision on a champ and only ever use them. Someone might not have onslaught, someone might want to use a mutant against Nick or Zemo (both of whom Dani is arguably better than Onslaught for).
Dani has utility Onslaught doesn’t, a very strong passive slow to deal with unstoppable and evade. Onslaught doesn’t deal with those. Dani heal blocks skill champs while neuro shocked, Onslaught doesn’t. Dani has a different form of damage than onslaught via special hits, occasionally useful. She has comparable damage to him for BGs.
I don’t think Dani is a better champ than onslaught. She doesn’t need to be. But damn some people on this forums are determined to prove (via RoL screenshots?) that Dani is the worst champ and it’s an insult she was ever dreamt up.
Some of you need to really just stop letting a champ design live rent free in your head. Dani isn’t meant to be a class defining champ like onslaught, and that’s fine. Use her for what she’s good for. Hell man, you’re taking 500k HP in a minute.
Here’s a R5 Dani vs R5 onslaught. I managed to get a faster time with Dani, does that mean onslaught needs tuning up?
Damage comparisons in RoL are probably the last place you should look for evidence of a need for rebalancing
No, it means Dani needs tuning up, especially since to get that time your Dani crit on her sp2. Her crit chance is 18% so that’s 1 out of 5 matchups where it crits.
And I got this time without the crit on the last hit of the special. So 58 seconds is the cut off between being ok, but any more and they need a tune up?
And besides, using an insane damage champion like Onslaught as the bench mark? Why not go ahead and compare her utility to Hercules and say she sucks based on that too.
Both 2023 mutants, she should have had the damage, not him. He has the utility. The way I see it is that he offers much more but doesn’t have that much damage offensively and she is the offensive neuroshock powerhouse with much less utility.
How am I wrong?
Because that has not, and never will be the way the game works.
You don’t make one decision on a champ and only ever use them. Someone might not have onslaught, someone might want to use a mutant against Nick or Zemo (both of whom Dani is arguably better than Onslaught for).
Dani has utility Onslaught doesn’t, a very strong passive slow to deal with unstoppable and evade. Onslaught doesn’t deal with those. Dani heal blocks skill champs while neuro shocked, Onslaught doesn’t. Dani has a different form of damage than onslaught via special hits, occasionally useful. She has comparable damage to him for BGs.
I don’t think Dani is a better champ than onslaught. She doesn’t need to be. But damn some people on this forums are determined to prove (via RoL screenshots?) that Dani is the worst champ and it’s an insult she was ever dreamt up.
Some of you need to really just stop letting a champ design live rent free in your head. Dani isn’t meant to be a class defining champ like onslaught, and that’s fine. Use her for what she’s good for. Hell man, you’re taking 500k HP in a minute.
I did not only post RoL screenshots, you did.
My brother in Christ this is a thread on damage with some RoL screenshots as evidence..
I didn’t say you only used them, using an act 6 fight and a labyrinth fight doesn’t make it much better
Is it just me or is this guy ALWAYS trying to find a way to make a champion look bad?
Judging from the pics of dani it doesnt even look like you played her right. Plus Onslaught is litteraly a champ that perma ramps up. It just goes and his damage goes up. While you reramp up dani after ramping her up. But most her opponents die within the sp3 rampup. And opponents with ROL Hp dies within a sp2 rampup. I have a R5 with gambit relic and im ascending her also her sp2 is physical. So the last hit doesnt matter if it crits or not. She also has the neuroshocks afterwards if it didnt die that will certainly kill it.
Here’s a R5 Dani vs R5 onslaught. I managed to get a faster time with Dani, does that mean onslaught needs tuning up?
Damage comparisons in RoL are probably the last place you should look for evidence of a need for rebalancing
No, it means Dani needs tuning up, especially since to get that time your Dani crit on her sp2. Her crit chance is 18% so that’s 1 out of 5 matchups where it crits.
And I got this time without the crit on the last hit of the special. So 58 seconds is the cut off between being ok, but any more and they need a tune up?
And besides, using an insane damage champion like Onslaught as the bench mark? Why not go ahead and compare her utility to Hercules and say she sucks based on that too.
Both 2023 mutants, she should have had the damage, not him. He has the utility. The way I see it is that he offers much more but doesn’t have that much damage offensively and she is the offensive neuroshock powerhouse with much less utility.
How am I wrong?
Because that has not, and never will be the way the game works.
You don’t make one decision on a champ and only ever use them. Someone might not have onslaught, someone might want to use a mutant against Nick or Zemo (both of whom Dani is arguably better than Onslaught for).
Dani has utility Onslaught doesn’t, a very strong passive slow to deal with unstoppable and evade. Onslaught doesn’t deal with those. Dani heal blocks skill champs while neuro shocked, Onslaught doesn’t. Dani has a different form of damage than onslaught via special hits, occasionally useful. She has comparable damage to him for BGs.
I don’t think Dani is a better champ than onslaught. She doesn’t need to be. But damn some people on this forums are determined to prove (via RoL screenshots?) that Dani is the worst champ and it’s an insult she was ever dreamt up.
Some of you need to really just stop letting a champ design live rent free in your head. Dani isn’t meant to be a class defining champ like onslaught, and that’s fine. Use her for what she’s good for. Hell man, you’re taking 500k HP in a minute.
I did not only post RoL screenshots, you did.
My brother in Christ this is a thread on damage with some RoL screenshots as evidence..
I didn’t say you only used them, using an act 6 fight and a labyrinth fight doesn’t make it much better
I didn’t know you were unaware of these healthpools being important when judging a champion’s damage, I’ll make a special screenshot just for you, hope it helps 🫶
I love her design and it sucks that the first native american champion in the game is so purposefully undertuned.
If you didn’t mean it that way then I would suggest looking at your wording next time as that is how it comes off.
It appears that you are saying that she is purposefully undertuned due to her Native American Background.
It appears that you’re wrong. I suggest taking a reading literacy course, it’s got a lot of benefits for everyone, especially regarding topics like this one
Your comparison doesn't work, besides outside of being 2023 Mutants, and having Neuroshock in their kit, they are different. One focuses on Prowess and special damage, the other focuses on debuff damage. Shuri is not the same as Infamous Iron Man despite both being 2022 Techs and having Shock in their kit.
Shuri and Idoom are extremely compatible for comparison
They really aren't, though.
You could compare them if you want to - but they purposefully have very different uses, playstyles, & main damage sources despite any class overlap.
I love my r2 dani, she consistently does ROL WS in under 40 seconds, the sp2 normally takes off atleast 400k.
I use 6 star gambit relic and max cides 24 7 so of course its gonna be crazy tho🤷♂️
You’re referencing fights where the special 2 actually crits. I have the 6 star Gambit relic equipped aswell and it doesn’t even matter since the final sp2 hit is energy based, not physical.
Even if the last hit doesn't crit its still over 100k damage, for no ramp up I'd say she's a top mutant. Just my opinion
Show me a picture of the last hit being over 100k noncrit and I will never make another complaint thread again.
Edit: without any sp3 prowess ofc.
I'm in necropolis rn but I'll get you that screenshot. It's tough tho because any duel dies before the last hit🤷♂️🤷♂️
Your comparison doesn't work, besides outside of being 2023 Mutants, and having Neuroshock in their kit, they are different. One focuses on Prowess and special damage, the other focuses on debuff damage. Shuri is not the same as Infamous Iron Man despite both being 2022 Techs and having Shock in their kit.
Shuri and Idoom are extremely compatible for comparison
They really aren't, though.
You could compare them if you want to - but they purposefully have very different uses, playstyles, & main damage sources despite any class overlap.
That’s what compatible means, I didn’t say they ARE comparable…
Your comparison doesn't work, besides outside of being 2023 Mutants, and having Neuroshock in their kit, they are different. One focuses on Prowess and special damage, the other focuses on debuff damage. Shuri is not the same as Infamous Iron Man despite both being 2022 Techs and having Shock in their kit.
Shuri and Idoom are extremely compatible for comparison
They really aren't, though.
You could compare them if you want to - but they purposefully have very different uses, playstyles, & main damage sources despite any class overlap.
That’s what compatible means, I didn’t say they ARE comparable…
You literally said "Shuri and Idoom are extremely compatible for comparison" as an example of why Dani should be compared to Onslaught.
Maybe you misspoke, but for the same reasons that iDoom & Shuri shouldn't be compared to each other - Dani & Onslaught are very different Champions, with a touch of Class overlap (Neuroshock).
Poll 1,000 people and I doubt you'll find many people saying Dani is better than Onslaught, but just because Onslaught is kinda nuts doesn't mean Dani was intentionally under-tuned.
Your comparison doesn't work, besides outside of being 2023 Mutants, and having Neuroshock in their kit, they are different. One focuses on Prowess and special damage, the other focuses on debuff damage. Shuri is not the same as Infamous Iron Man despite both being 2022 Techs and having Shock in their kit.
Shuri and Idoom are extremely compatible for comparison
They really aren't, though.
You could compare them if you want to - but they purposefully have very different uses, playstyles, & main damage sources despite any class overlap.
That’s what compatible means, I didn’t say they ARE comparable…
You literally said "Shuri and Idoom are extremely compatible for comparison" as an example of why Dani should be compared to Onslaught.
Maybe you misspoke, but for the same reasons that iDoom & Shuri shouldn't be compared to each other - Dani & Onslaught are very different Champions, with a touch of Class overlap (Neuroshock).
Poll 1,000 people and I doubt you'll find many people saying Dani is better than Onslaught, but just because Onslaught is kinda nuts doesn't mean Dani was intentionally under-tuned.
I never said Dani is overtuned BECAUSE Onslaught is op, I’m saying Dani is weak and Onslaught is a perfect comparison of a modern mutant champion and where they should aim to be. No one is using Dani, everyone is using Onslaught. Dani has no utility, Onslaught has All the utility. Dani’s damage is unreliable, Onslaught’s damage is guaranteed. What’s so hard to understand? You like Zemo who’s a champion that has low damage and high utility. That’s how it should be. High damage low utility, low damage high utility. Exceptions always make it into the top part of everyone’s tier list. That’s balance. Dani has mid damage with low utility in 4/5 matchups when she does not crit. That’s undertuned. Make it either high consistent damage low utility or mid damage mid utility. She is currently undertuned even according to Kabam, so what are you trying to add to the comversation?
Your comparison doesn't work, besides outside of being 2023 Mutants, and having Neuroshock in their kit, they are different. One focuses on Prowess and special damage, the other focuses on debuff damage. Shuri is not the same as Infamous Iron Man despite both being 2022 Techs and having Shock in their kit.
Shuri and Idoom are extremely compatible for comparison
They really aren't, though.
You could compare them if you want to - but they purposefully have very different uses, playstyles, & main damage sources despite any class overlap.
That’s what compatible means, I didn’t say they ARE comparable…
You literally said "Shuri and Idoom are extremely compatible for comparison" as an example of why Dani should be compared to Onslaught.
Maybe you misspoke, but for the same reasons that iDoom & Shuri shouldn't be compared to each other - Dani & Onslaught are very different Champions, with a touch of Class overlap (Neuroshock).
Poll 1,000 people and I doubt you'll find many people saying Dani is better than Onslaught, but just because Onslaught is kinda nuts doesn't mean Dani was intentionally under-tuned.
No one is using Dani, everyone is using Onslaught. Dani has no utility. Dani’s damage is unreliable. What’s so hard to understand? What are you trying to add to the conversation?
I plan for Tier 1 War and assign Dani all the time, never been disappointed. She's a VERY solid Zemo counter, great for Kingpin, nice for Fury - she does exactly what she's supposed to do, imo.
Who are you to say Zemo has bad damage? With ideal conditions, he can get to 70k damage per second
Yeah, I like Zemo because his damage is nuts when you utilize him properly lol
No, it’s not. If by "utilizing correctly" you mean synergizing then sure, good job on cracking that one, detective.
Couple things -
1) Yes it is, without synergies.
2) There's genuinely 0 need to be rude here, especially when you're incorrect - I'm going to remove myself from this discussion because I see 0 point in continuing the conversation here. Best of luck to ya 🤙🏻
Who are you to say Zemo has bad damage? With ideal conditions, he can get to 70k damage per second
Yeah, I like Zemo because his damage is nuts when you utilize him properly lol
No, it’s not. If by "utilizing correctly" you mean synergizing then sure, good job on cracking that one, detective.
Couple things -
1) Yes it is, without synergies.
2) There's genuinely 0 need to be rude here, especially when you're incorrect - I'm going to remove myself from this discussion because I see 0 point in continuing the conversation here. Best of luck to ya 🤙🏻
Who are you to say Zemo has bad damage? With ideal conditions, he can get to 70k damage per second
Yeah, I like Zemo because his damage is nuts when you utilize him properly lol
No, it’s not. If by "utilizing correctly" you mean synergizing then sure, good job on cracking that one, detective.
Couple things -
1) Yes it is, without synergies.
2) There's genuinely 0 need to be rude here, especially when you're incorrect - I'm going to remove myself from this discussion because I see 0 point in continuing the conversation here. Best of luck to ya 🤙🏻
You sure added so much to this thread… especially about how much you play Zemo and still think his damage is good… nuts even, you said… just compare him to Kate Bishop, who didn’t get rebalanced. He definetly needed the nerf, right Mike?
You sure added so much to this thread… especially about how much you play Zemo and still think his damage is good… nuts even, you said… just compare him to Kate Bishop, who didn’t get rebalanced. He definetly needed the nerf, right Mike?
Are you just mad 24/7? This game is clearly not good for your health lmao
You sure added so much to this thread… especially about how much you play Zemo and still think his damage is good… nuts even, you said… just compare him to Kate Bishop, who didn’t get rebalanced. He definetly needed the nerf, right Mike?
Are you just mad 24/7? This game is clearly not good for your health lmao
I’m arguing with a man that says Zemo has "nuts" damage without synergies… and this man has direct feedback for Kabam… that enrages me a bit, yeah. And he also says ambiguous stuff like "utilizing him correctly" instead of actually giving answers… if I didn’t know anything about Zemo I’d be inclined to agree with the Zemo youtuber, but his statements are just wrong…
You sure added so much to this thread… especially about how much you play Zemo and still think his damage is good… nuts even, you said… just compare him to Kate Bishop, who didn’t get rebalanced. He definetly needed the nerf, right Mike?
Root absolutely did need to be adjusted since it was game-breaking to lock a defender into spamming heavy attacks indefinitely with the use of a relic. Not even to mention Skill Power Back Boosts. You were talking about balance earlier, yes?
It's a bit silly to suggest otherwise at this point, tbh.
Ya know what, I'm bored, so I'll bite on the Zemo comment - He gains a 200% fury whenever his Opponent is immune to, or purifies, any effect (stun, bleed, etc) - On debuff immune nodes this shoots his basic attack DPS up to the moon, and if he has furies while he's placing his bleeds, those bleeds get that attack bonus increase - and they're indefinite.
If you take him into Realm of Legends and fight Winter Soldier, you probably won't be too impressed. He'll do the fight just fine, but that isn't where he excels.
"Utilizing him properly" does not consist of adding synergies to the team. Utilizing him properly is sending him toward nodes, such as (for example) "Right Back At It," where a knockdown on SP2 triggers a debuff immune passive, in which he could safely close out War fights in roughly 30 seconds. Or against Science Champions (or nodes) in which he could root the defender naturally, essentially skipping the bulk of his ramp.
I saw you made a post recently about how he isn't gaining the proper amount of furies on his Special 1 against bleed immune Champions - he is, the 5 furies are consumed on the final hit of his Special attack. That's why against Photon, while rooted, the last hit of his Special 1 hits for a bit under 100k. I don't know about you, but I would personally categorize a +/-100,000 Special 1 crit as "nuts," but that's me.
I didn't even touch on the skill expression possibility of re-parrying Stun Immune fights to gain furies before attacking - or better yet, parrying Kingpin (or other shruggers) a few times to nuke the fight with a 300k+ Special 3.
I'm always more than happy to have a discussion about literally any aspect of the game, it's what I love to do - but just a friendly reminder, I'm lucky enough for this to be my job, and I know what I'm talking about.
You sure added so much to this thread… especially about how much you play Zemo and still think his damage is good… nuts even, you said… just compare him to Kate Bishop, who didn’t get rebalanced. He definetly needed the nerf, right Mike?
I think it's a little unfair to directly compare Kate Bishop and Zemo. They're both Skill champions but the way they deal damage separates them from comparison beyond just general damage. Ultimately, there are matchups that work for KB and not for Zemo while other matchups might be better for Zemo than KB.
Comments
You don’t make one decision on a champ and only ever use them. Someone might not have onslaught, someone might want to use a mutant against Nick or Zemo (both of whom Dani is arguably better than Onslaught for).
Dani has utility Onslaught doesn’t, a very strong passive slow to deal with unstoppable and evade. Onslaught doesn’t deal with those. Dani heal blocks skill champs while neuro shocked, Onslaught doesn’t. Dani has a different form of damage than onslaught via special hits, occasionally useful. She has comparable damage to him for BGs.
I don’t think Dani is a better champ than onslaught. She doesn’t need to be. But damn some people on this forums are determined to prove (via RoL screenshots?) that Dani is the worst champ and it’s an insult she was ever dreamt up.
Some of you need to really just stop letting a champ design live rent free in your head. Dani isn’t meant to be a class defining champ like onslaught, and that’s fine. Use her for what she’s good for. Hell man, you’re taking 500k HP in a minute.
I didn’t say you only used them, using an act 6 fight and a labyrinth fight doesn’t make it much better
It appears that you are saying that she is purposefully undertuned due to her Native American Background.
You could compare them if you want to - but they purposefully have very different uses, playstyles, & main damage sources despite any class overlap.
Maybe you misspoke, but for the same reasons that iDoom & Shuri shouldn't be compared to each other - Dani & Onslaught are very different Champions, with a touch of Class overlap (Neuroshock).
Poll 1,000 people and I doubt you'll find many people saying Dani is better than Onslaught, but just because Onslaught is kinda nuts doesn't mean Dani was intentionally under-tuned.
She is currently undertuned even according to Kabam, so what are you trying to add to the comversation?
She's a VERY solid Zemo counter, great for Kingpin, nice for Fury - she does exactly what she's supposed to do, imo.
1) Yes it is, without synergies.
2) There's genuinely 0 need to be rude here, especially when you're incorrect - I'm going to remove myself from this discussion because I see 0 point in continuing the conversation here. Best of luck to ya 🤙🏻
2)Cool, thank god.
You were talking about balance earlier, yes?
It's a bit silly to suggest otherwise at this point, tbh.
Ya know what, I'm bored, so I'll bite on the Zemo comment -
He gains a 200% fury whenever his Opponent is immune to, or purifies, any effect (stun, bleed, etc) -
On debuff immune nodes this shoots his basic attack DPS up to the moon, and if he has furies while he's placing his bleeds, those bleeds get that attack bonus increase - and they're indefinite.
If you take him into Realm of Legends and fight Winter Soldier, you probably won't be too impressed.
He'll do the fight just fine, but that isn't where he excels.
"Utilizing him properly" does not consist of adding synergies to the team.
Utilizing him properly is sending him toward nodes, such as (for example) "Right Back At It," where a knockdown on SP2 triggers a debuff immune passive, in which he could safely close out War fights in roughly 30 seconds.
Or against Science Champions (or nodes) in which he could root the defender naturally, essentially skipping the bulk of his ramp.
I saw you made a post recently about how he isn't gaining the proper amount of furies on his Special 1 against bleed immune Champions - he is, the 5 furies are consumed on the final hit of his Special attack. That's why against Photon, while rooted, the last hit of his Special 1 hits for a bit under 100k.
I don't know about you, but I would personally categorize a +/-100,000 Special 1 crit as "nuts," but that's me.
I didn't even touch on the skill expression possibility of re-parrying Stun Immune fights to gain furies before attacking - or better yet, parrying Kingpin (or other shruggers) a few times to nuke the fight with a 300k+ Special 3.
I'm always more than happy to have a discussion about literally any aspect of the game, it's what I love to do - but just a friendly reminder, I'm lucky enough for this to be my job, and I know what I'm talking about.