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How Kabam can make Immortal Hulk viable for BG

Gainsley_HarriottGainsley_Harriott Posts: 255 ★★
edited January 16 in General Discussion
He’s such a great champ but for obvious reasons is unusable on BG attack and that just seems unfair.

How to fix:

His stored gamma is his health; can this not just be applied to the BG health score at the end of the fight?

Comments

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    OpandemonioOpandemonio Posts: 1,264 ★★★★
    Why isn't him usable?
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    AmaadAkiraAmaadAkira Posts: 388 ★★★

    That’s called “having your cake and eating it, too”. His insane damage is mitigated by the need to manage his health. By design.

    Except when champions like CGR, AA, HT, Tigra, Ghost, and many others exist that can nuke champions faster than him with a lower reliance on AI aggression, then there's no reason iHulk can't also exist.
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    SiliyoSiliyo Posts: 1,413 ★★★★★

    That’s called “having your cake and eating it, too”. His insane damage is mitigated by the need to manage his health. By design.

    Except when champions like CGR, AA, HT, Tigra, Ghost, and many others exist that can nuke champions faster than him with a lower reliance on AI aggression, then there's no reason iHulk can't also exist.
    CGR: you have to play near perfectly, if you dex you miss his big damage.
    AA: if the opponent is bleed or poison immune, there goes his damage
    HT: if the opponent isn’t mystic or energy damage based, his nova flames aren’t as potent
    Tigra: if you’re not aggressive enough, you lose your senses therefore you lose damage
    Ghost: An exception, but if she gets an armor break on her or if you miss the SP2 step back you lose damage

    You name all of these examples, *without context*, iHulk is designed a certain way the same way the champions above were designed in specific ways.
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    Gainsley_HarriottGainsley_Harriott Posts: 255 ★★
    Siliyo said:

    That’s called “having your cake and eating it, too”. His insane damage is mitigated by the need to manage his health. By design.

    Except when champions like CGR, AA, HT, Tigra, Ghost, and many others exist that can nuke champions faster than him with a lower reliance on AI aggression, then there's no reason iHulk can't also exist.
    CGR: you have to play near perfectly, if you dex you miss his big damage.
    AA: if the opponent is bleed or poison immune, there goes his damage
    HT: if the opponent isn’t mystic or energy damage based, his nova flames aren’t as potent
    Tigra: if you’re not aggressive enough, you lose your senses therefore you lose damage
    Ghost: An exception, but if she gets an armor break on her or if you miss the SP2 step back you lose damage

    You name all of these examples, *without context*, iHulk is designed a certain way the same way the champions above were designed in specific ways.
    You’re missing the entire point.

    Every champ’s playstyle has potential mistakes (which you’ve listed above). But for I-Hulk, it’s not about mistakes, nuking your health is literally built into his kit and makes him impossible to use in Battlegrounds, REGARDLESS of mistakes or whatever.
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    ReignkingTWReignkingTW Posts: 2,626 ★★★★★
    Or don't use him?
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    Gainsley_HarriottGainsley_Harriott Posts: 255 ★★

    That’s called “having your cake and eating it, too”. His insane damage is mitigated by the need to manage his health. By design.

    How can you “manage” health when getting your own health to 0 is literally built into his kit? It’s not having my cake and eating it, because there are plenty of champs with higher damage.
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    edited January 16
    Siliyo said:

    That’s called “having your cake and eating it, too”. His insane damage is mitigated by the need to manage his health. By design.

    Except when champions like CGR, AA, HT, Tigra, Ghost, and many others exist that can nuke champions faster than him with a lower reliance on AI aggression, then there's no reason iHulk can't also exist.
    CGR: you have to play near perfectly, if you dex you miss his big damage.
    It's not difficult to play CGR in BGs.

    Edit: Idk why some people still bring up the Dexing thing as well. It's really not a big problem once you know what you're doing with CGR.
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    Gainsley_HarriottGainsley_Harriott Posts: 255 ★★

    Or don't use him?

    I don’t…. For the reasons I’ve outlined. He’s the only character that nukes his own health in the game so seems unfair that he’s the only one that can’t be used in BG.
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    WayoncitoWayoncito Posts: 8

    He’s such a great champ but for obvious reasons is unusable on BG attack and that just seems unfair.

    How to fix:

    His stored gamma is his health; can this not just be applied to the BG health score at the end of the fight?

    I agree, maybe like a prefight or something because sometimes in normal questing you may want him to start inmortality but I would love that change
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    Colinwhitworth69Colinwhitworth69 Posts: 7,218 ★★★★★

    That’s called “having your cake and eating it, too”. His insane damage is mitigated by the need to manage his health. By design.

    Except when champions like CGR, AA, HT, Tigra, Ghost, and many others exist that can nuke champions faster than him with a lower reliance on AI aggression, then there's no reason iHulk can't also exist.
    Those are irrelevant comparisons, because those champs do not have a damage mechanic like iHulk. What you want him to be is OG Hulk, so just use him instead.
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    Gainsley_HarriottGainsley_Harriott Posts: 255 ★★
    edited January 16

    not to mention that every champ doesn't need to be tuned to use in BGs

    It's almost like some champions are built for specific purposes and not meant to be perfectly adaptable to every game mode.

    New petition to make Aegon gain combo at 5x rate in BGs to make him viable!
    I’m not saying I-Hulk should be built for BG, but he’s the only champ in the game that literally nukes his own health.
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    Gainsley_HarriottGainsley_Harriott Posts: 255 ★★

    Not every champion needs to be tuned for Battlegrounds.

    Not even sure why this is a discussion lol. I put my R5 Ascended iHulk on defense a lot and he's a huge help, tbh.

    Rank 5 ascended? Miring that tbh

    Is he good on defence? Also which other parts of the game do you mostly use him?
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    not to mention that every champ doesn't need to be tuned to use in BGs

    It's almost like some champions are built for specific purposes and not meant to be perfectly adaptable to every game mode.

    New petition to make Aegon gain combo at 5x rate in BGs to make him viable!
    I’m not saying I-Hulk should be built for BG
    You literally started the post by outlining "how to fix" iHulk to make him viable for BGs offense lol
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    Not every champion needs to be tuned for Battlegrounds.

    Not even sure why this is a discussion lol. I put my R5 Ascended iHulk on defense a lot and he's a huge help, tbh.

    Is he good on defence? Also which other parts of the game do you mostly use him?
    ...yeah? That's why I put him there lol. He's a pretty chunky timestall. Slows a lot of champs down if you draft/place him smart.

    Outside of BGs, I pretty much just use him for general questing. I've brought him to stuff like Grandmasters Gauntlet and Summer of Pain / Eternity of Pain when those were first releasing. I don't bring him to AW or AQ but I don't need to.

    He's one of my favorite champs.
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    He's also not "IMPOSSIBLE" to use in BGs offense btw. I've seen quite a few kills.
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    Drago_von_DragoDrago_von_Drago Posts: 781 ★★★★

    not to mention that every champ doesn't need to be tuned to use in BGs

    New petition to make Aegon gain combo at 5x rate in BGs to make him viable!
    I thought this was what relics were going to do. Maybe a future one will do something like this for him and other champs where combo count matters.

    On topic - interesting idea but seems overly complicated for one champ. I’d much rather see that dev time go somewhere else.
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    WinterFieldsWinterFields Posts: 704 ★★★★
    If you time it right, you can heal back right as you're about to win and still end in high health; however, that's not always easy to pull off.

    As @SlayerOfGods mentioned, he can be used on defense. Before the scoring change, I saw ihulk used on defense more often; less now that time isn't as high a factor.

    Not all champs are meant to be good at offense in BG. Korg is a good example, as he is great for defense, but no one uses him on offense
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    Gainsley_HarriottGainsley_Harriott Posts: 255 ★★

    not to mention that every champ doesn't need to be tuned to use in BGs

    It's almost like some champions are built for specific purposes and not meant to be perfectly adaptable to every game mode.

    New petition to make Aegon gain combo at 5x rate in BGs to make him viable!
    I’m not saying I-Hulk should be built for BG
    You literally started the post by outlining "how to fix" iHulk to make him viable for BGs offense lol
    Fixing him in the sense that “he’s the only champ in the game that is affected by health loss from his own abilities”. Alleviating this wouldn’t mean he’s “built” for BG’s (like most new champs are).

    I’m not asking for any of his abilities to be changed, I’m only asking for his health (stored as gamma) to be recognised as his health.
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    captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Posts: 5,213 ★★★★★

    not to mention that every champ doesn't need to be tuned to use in BGs

    New petition to make Aegon gain combo at 5x rate in BGs to make him viable!
    I thought this was what relics were going to do. Maybe a future one will do something like this for him and other champs where combo count matters.

    On topic - interesting idea but seems overly complicated for one champ. I’d much rather see that dev time go somewhere else.
    Aegon relic - Gains a combo multiplier passive which multiplies the current combo count by 5 for x seconds.
    Runes -
    1) increased combo shield effect duration
    2) increased cruelty effect durations. (For champs like black cat)
    3) increased unstoppable effects duration. (For champs like kingpin)
    Awakened ability - decreases opponent amor and resistance based on combo count.
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,962 Guardian

    not to mention that every champ doesn't need to be tuned to use in BGs

    It's almost like some champions are built for specific purposes and not meant to be perfectly adaptable to every game mode.

    New petition to make Aegon gain combo at 5x rate in BGs to make him viable!
    I’m not saying I-Hulk should be built for BG
    You literally started the post by outlining "how to fix" iHulk to make him viable for BGs offense lol
    Fixing him in the sense that “he’s the only champ in the game that is affected by health loss from his own abilities”. Alleviating this wouldn’t mean he’s “built” for BG’s (like most new champs are).

    I’m not asking for any of his abilities to be changed, I’m only asking for his health (stored as gamma) to be recognised as his health.
    That's an interesting idea, but the chances of it happening are extremely low.

    One of the fundamental ideas of Battlegrounds is shifting metas. The devs deliberately designed scoring and the buff structure in such a way so as to deliberately make some champs better and some champs worse on offense and defense from season to season, so the meta doesn't evolve into a lock-in state (where the players optimize attack and defense strategies around persistently optimal choices). They know that at any moment in time there's going to be champs that seem great and others that seem useless. In general, they aren't going to want to react to players asking for special handling or consideration for different champs at different times.

    That also means that they aren't going to want to touch special cases like Nick and iHulk, because it would set the dangerous precedent that Kabam should be optimizing champs for BG on a case by case basis. You might think iHulk is a very special case, but that doesn't matter. Nick is also a very special case, and they have not gone anywhere near him. Everyone thinks their case is a very special case, and it is easier to simply not touch them all than try to draw an arbitrary line in the sand.

    If you could prove that no one ever wins with him on offense and no one ever wins with him on defense, you might have a very very very special case. But that's extremely unlikely to be the case given the diversity of players in BG.

    Incidentally, while iHulk's mechanics might be considered an unfair penalty in BG, counting gamma as health could become an unfair advantage in certain metas. I don't think you could just say "gamma is health in BG" and leave it at that. This would require a ton of careful consideration, and that means that isn't a quick fix either.
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    250+ Champs, not every Champ needs to be tuned, or changed, to specifically work well in BGs.

    iHulk is already a semi-occasionally viable meatshield on BGs D.
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    phillgreenphillgreen Posts: 3,800 ★★★★★
    I would like aegon to be viable in BG's, its not fair that his whole schtick is based on long fights.

    Lets say, starting at 500 combo.
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    PikoluPikolu Posts: 6,941 Guardian

    I would like aegon to be viable in BG's, its not fair that his whole schtick is based on long fights.

    Lets say, starting at 500 combo.


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